The SSD Megathread - Be nice to Alereon you jerks

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The SSD Megathread - Be nice to Alereon you jerks

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B-Nasty: May 25, 2005

Avocados posted:

It's gonna be siiickkk when these eventually become the new defaults in a store-bought computer, that way all the horrible OEM bloatware isn't as crippling for folks who don't know better.

I think it'll be a while for the low-end, Best Buy computers, because most consumers just look at the disk size. The OEMs can probably get a 1TB HDD for about $30-$40, while a 1TB SSD is going to be at least 4 times that. $200-300 for a SSD is way too much for a $600 PC.

Now, it would be smart if they built them with a cheap 128 or 256 GB SSD and also slapped a 1TB HDD in there, but I assume they don't think their users are savvy enough to move their data to the D: drive.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 00:51

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 10:57

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Potato Salad posted:

I stumbled across this as perhaps a goofy way of spitballing price:

Why is xpoint more volatile than NAND, and what does that mean in terms of storage? We already can't use SSDs for archival timeframes due to gate leakage.

The intel marketing site has basically no useful information about their lifespan, just lots of "wow it'll be fast you can do great stuff if you can go faster."

I'm the blatant jpeg artifacts on a web-page promoting $10,000 enterprise hardware. Apparently xpoint is so expensive even intel couldn't afford enough to store PNGs.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:00

Skandranon: Sep 6, 2008; fucking stupid, dont listen to me

redeyes posted:

Update the firmware of the 750. The initial firmwares took longer to post than the current ones. I would bet something is up with your mobo. I don't have glitchy boots and I have installed 3 of these on brand new x99 and z170 mobos.

Hey, thanks for this. Worked like a charm and is now booting way faster.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 05:21

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Hey good deal. Honestly the 750 isn't the fastest booting drive in the world but it is hella fast for everything else. I do love mine.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 15:10

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

If you dont mind slower writes....

http://www.pcper.com/news/Storage/Intel-Revises-All-SSD-Product-Lines-3D-NAND-Everywhere

New intel 600p m.2 1tb drive will be $360

# ? Aug 26, 2016 17:15

Rastor: Jun 2, 2001

Anandtech got another peek at 3D Xpoint; it's clearly still in the development phase.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10604/intels-140gb-optane-3d-xpoint-pcie-ssd-spotted-at-idf

# ? Aug 26, 2016 20:48

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

intel 600p up on newegg. $189 for 512gb nvme

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=600p&N=-1&isNodeId=1

# ? Aug 26, 2016 22:08

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Don Lapre posted:

intel 600p up on newegg. $189 for 512gb nvme

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=600p&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Come on, Intel...sure it's not the fastest drive out there, but throw all us Z68 users a bone and sell a PCIe adapter card with a legacy boot interface on board. You could resurrect the "Overdrive" moniker!

These things might force Samsung to reduce price *slightly* on the 950 Pros... they've still got the edge on speed and build uniformity.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 23:31

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

I have a trip report

CrystalDiskMark eyeballing of the Sandisk x400 vs the Extreme Pro

X400

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   544.787 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   501.851 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   327.325 MB/s [ 79913.3 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   296.710 MB/s [ 72439.0 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   497.205 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   465.740 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    34.586 MB/s [  8443.8 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   106.599 MB/s [ 26025.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [E: 33.9% (323.3/953.7 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:28:04
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

Extreme Pro

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   532.977 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   495.661 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   268.907 MB/s [ 65651.1 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   243.322 MB/s [ 59404.8 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   454.040 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   466.418 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    32.176 MB/s [  7855.5 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   101.868 MB/s [ 24870.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 21.2% (94.6/446.6 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:37:53
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

It's a synthetic, but god :drat:

if the controller isn't a whole lot better, considering the x400's 15nm TLC vs ExPro's 19nm MLC

# ? Aug 26, 2016 23:43

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Come on, Intel...sure it's not the fastest drive out there, but throw all us Z68 users a bone and sell a PCIe adapter card with a legacy boot interface on board. You could resurrect the "Overdrive" moniker!

These things might force Samsung to reduce price *slightly* on the 950 Pros... they've still got the edge on speed and build uniformity.

960 pro should be cheaper based on the sm961

# ? Aug 27, 2016 01:49

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Almost pulling the trigger on an 850 EVO (1 TB). Only concern is if I can get it a little cheaper in the near future. Any sales coming up in the next month or should I just buy it now?

# ? Aug 27, 2016 15:37

JnnyThndrs: May 29, 2001; HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

computer parts posted:

Almost pulling the trigger on an 850 EVO (1 TB). Only concern is if I can get it a little cheaper in the near future. Any sales coming up in the next month or should I just buy it now?

I've been waiting for six months for a decent sale on an 1tb Evo, hasn't happened yet. Samsung must really be cleaning up on those.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 16:34

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

have you looked at Sandisk X400s? They're $70 cheaper at 1TB than an EVO, and their warranties are actually respected by the manufacturer. A little slower, less resilient, but hey, $70 may be worth it to someone who doesn't need the peak endurance and performance of an EVO.

EVO is recommended, but X400 is okay for penny pinching.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 17:26

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

I have a trip report

CrystalDiskMark eyeballing of the Sandisk x400 vs the Extreme Pro

X400

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   544.787 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   501.851 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   327.325 MB/s [ 79913.3 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   296.710 MB/s [ 72439.0 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   497.205 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   465.740 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    34.586 MB/s [  8443.8 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   106.599 MB/s [ 26025.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [E: 33.9% (323.3/953.7 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:28:04
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

Extreme Pro

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   532.977 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   495.661 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   268.907 MB/s [ 65651.1 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   243.322 MB/s [ 59404.8 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   454.040 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   466.418 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    32.176 MB/s [  7855.5 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   101.868 MB/s [ 24870.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 21.2% (94.6/446.6 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:37:53
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

It's a synthetic, but god :drat:

if the controller isn't a whole lot better, considering the x400's 15nm TLC vs ExPro's 19nm MLC

This is blowing my loving mind.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 19:46

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Still, though, an 850 PRO vs Extreme Pro: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1242?vs=1252

At best they're close.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 19:50

buglord: Jul 31, 2010; Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!; Buglord

Welp I'm down to my last 30 gigs on my flashy new 850. :whitewater:

Curse these 50gb games.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 19:53

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Would most laptop users notice a performance difference between that X400 and an EVO (normal, not PRO)? The price difference is pretty substantial.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 20:36

LLSix: Jan 20, 2010; The real power behind countless overlords

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

I have a trip report

CrystalDiskMark eyeballing of the Sandisk x400 vs the Extreme Pro

X400

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   544.787 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   501.851 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   327.325 MB/s [ 79913.3 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   296.710 MB/s [ 72439.0 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   497.205 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   465.740 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    34.586 MB/s [  8443.8 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   106.599 MB/s [ 26025.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [E: 33.9% (323.3/953.7 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:28:04
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

Extreme Pro

code:

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   532.977 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   495.661 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   268.907 MB/s [ 65651.1 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   243.322 MB/s [ 59404.8 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :   454.040 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :   466.418 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    32.176 MB/s [  7855.5 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   101.868 MB/s [ 24870.1 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 21.2% (94.6/446.6 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2016/08/26 15:37:53
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10586] (x64)

It's a synthetic, but god :drat:

if the controller isn't a whole lot better, considering the x400's 15nm TLC vs ExPro's 19nm MLC

Does this mean Sandisk's x400 is better? I've read the last couple of pages of the thread because I'm thinking about getting an ssd for my desktop.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 21:03

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

LLSix posted:

Does this mean Sandisk's x400 is better? I've read the last couple of pages of the thread because I'm thinking about getting an ssd for my desktop.

The controller is unquestionably better. Endurance is up in the air, but the warrantied TBW of the x400 is actually over twice that of the equivalent Extreme Pro SKU (1TB 320 TBW vs 960GB 144) and if you're just using it as a games drive you won't hit anywhere near a tenth of it.

Ynglaur posted:

Would most laptop users notice a performance difference between that X400 and an EVO (normal, not PRO)? The price difference is pretty substantial.

Nope. Hell, most laptop users won't notice a performance difference between the 840 Evo and the 850 Evo. At that performance level you'd have to be desperately searching for the gains since it's within the point of diminishing returns for "regular" use.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 27, 2016

# ? Aug 27, 2016 21:36

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

So as soon as Micro Center gets the 512GB 600p in stock, I'll write a review about it. My 970 isn't using the full bandwidth of PCIe 2.0 x16, and I've a few applications and games that could benefit from the speed boost, even if I can't boot from the drive. I figure the 'slowness' of it compared to the Samsungs will be more at home on a Z68 board. I'll be happy with ~1GB/sec reads.

If it's not worth it...well, good thing MC has such a liberal return policy.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 02:02

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

The controller is unquestionably better. Endurance is up in the air, but the warrantied TBW of the x400 is actually over twice that of the equivalent Extreme Pro SKU (1TB 320 TBW vs 960GB 144) and if you're just using it as a games drive you won't hit anywhere near a tenth of it.

Nope. Hell, most laptop users won't notice a performance difference between the 840 Evo and the 850 Evo. At that performance level you'd have to be desperately searching for the gains since it's within the point of diminishing returns for "regular" use.

Thanks. I'm considering getting an MSI GS43VR (their new 14" laptop with an nVidia 1060), and swapping the default 128GB M.2 with a larger SSD.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 02:13

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Ynglaur posted:

Thanks. I'm considering getting an MSI GS43VR (their new 14" laptop with an nVidia 1060), and swapping the default 128GB M.2 with a larger SSD.

I'm sure you know this already - but keep in mind that that M.2 slot is PCIe-linked, so you'll want to go with at least the 600p if you want 1TB. You made me curious enough to look up the laptop's information, since my father's been angling for a new game-capable laptop, and a 1060M would more than suit him for something like the next five years.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 02:44

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO: Feb 28, 1985

Is there no way to get an older board to start booting on the sata drive, load the uefi drivers, then continue booting from the windows install on an nvme drive?

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Aug 28, 2016

# ? Aug 28, 2016 12:02

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I'm sure you know this already - but keep in mind that that M.2 slot is PCIe-linked, so you'll want to go with at least the 600p if you want 1TB. You made me curious enough to look up the laptop's information, since my father's been angling for a new game-capable laptop, and a 1060M would more than suit him for something like the next five years.

I didn't know that. What is 600p? Sorry if the question is dumb.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 12:12

HMS Boromir: Jul 16, 2011; by Lowtax

This.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 13:23

Don Lapre: Mar 28, 2001; If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Where is the 1tb, I'd buy it today

# ? Aug 28, 2016 16:49

Dead Goon: Dec 13, 2002; No Obvious Flaws

The internet!

# ? Aug 28, 2016 16:59

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

It's pretty cool to see Intel putting pressure on the market to bring down the price of NVMe PCIe drives.

Part of the strategy to eventually ditch SATA I bet.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 17:08

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Don Lapre posted:

Where is the 1tb, I'd buy it today

wait a couple weeks or so, only OEMs can order it right now :smith:

Really good price for an Intel drive, I wouldn't have guessed it'd be them to start driving NVMe below the 50c/gb watermark. I guess it's because they have actual competition

# ? Aug 28, 2016 21:26

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Yeah, and what has me sold is that it's Intel NAND again. Sure, it's not their controller, but it's their firmware.

Five year warranties on them, too.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 21:45

Arsten: Feb 18, 2003

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Yeah, and what has me sold is that it's Intel NAND again. Sure, it's not their controller, but it's their firmware.

Five year warranties on them, too.

Why did Intel stop packaging their own NAND in the first place? Were they going to exit the market?

Arsten fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Aug 28, 2016

# ? Aug 28, 2016 21:52

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Yeah, and what has me sold is that it's Intel NAND again. Sure, it's not their controller, but it's their firmware.

Five year warranties on them, too.

Do you know whose controller it is? Annoyingly the product isn't on the Ark pages yet.. It was probably mentioned earlier but I missed it.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 21:57

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

priznat posted:

Do you know whose controller it is? Annoyingly the product isn't on the Ark pages yet.. It was probably mentioned earlier but I missed it.

SMI, but if you look very closely in the bottom right corner of the chip, you'll see the Intel logo.

EDIT: Actual controller model is the SM2260.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 28, 2016

# ? Aug 28, 2016 22:07

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Potato Salad posted:

I stumbled across this as perhaps a goofy way of spitballing price:

A TB of cheap-o desktop ram will run you $4k - $5 based on a quick browse through Newegg. 1TB of NAND costs $300 in the form of an X400 costs you $240. Halfway between them is in the range of a thousand or two dollars? 1.2 TB of Intel 750 NVMe will run you a thousand dollars, though, so perhaps 1TB of Optane will cost 2-3k?

It's all a crapshoot, but don't expect it to be anywhere near the modern lower cost of a SATA NAND drive. NVMe already is operating at "I pushed this button on my laptop and was instantly shown the login screen" levels of performance, so Optane frankly seems a little silly outside high-performance computing when it's possibly going to be in excess of 4x the price of NAND.

Good loving jesus I write a lot of words. Bottom line: Intel NVMe in the form of a 750 is already close to 4x the price of high-end TLC NAND. They only promise that Optane will cost more than NAND and less than RAM. NVMe is already the Holy Father of ssd for consumers and at the moment makes boot and loading games magically happen instantly. I would not wait for Optane as it will be very expensive for a long time.

pedant: nvme is a protocol like ahci, flash and optane both implement it. pcie flash owns and is already hitting the limits of x4 3.0 and its questionable what optane will deliver to consumers beyond maybe faster race to idle on mobile but its basically super-cache for now

# ? Aug 28, 2016 22:16

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Arsten posted:

Why did Intel stop packaging their own NAND in the first place? Were they going to exit the market?

IMFT is still a thing but clearly their focus is on optane

eroding the memory mountain is the easiest way to improve performance

# ? Aug 28, 2016 22:32

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

SMI, but if you look very closely in the bottom right corner of the chip, you'll see the Intel logo.

Interesting, don't see a PCIe part on SMI's site so it must be an exclusive to Intel for now.

Gonna have to order a couple of these for work to see how they do on our stress testing.

# ? Aug 28, 2016 22:35

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

priznat posted:

Interesting, don't see a PCIe part on SMI's site so it must be an exclusive to Intel for now.

Gonna have to order a couple of these for work to see how they do on our stress testing.

I edited the original post. It's the SM2260.

http://www.siliconmotion.com/A6.1.Detail_News.php?sn=184

EDIT: Some tarnish on these, it's Intel's first 3D NAND, and every drive in the lineup from the 128GB to the 1TB is rated at only 72 TBW on the 600p. No clue about the pro-grade SKU.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Aug 29, 2016

# ? Aug 28, 2016 23:01

GargleBlaster: Mar 17, 2008; Stupid Narutard

Just curious whether people bother upgrading SSDs? (Unless it's to get a higher capacity)

I still use an Intel X25-M G2 for my Linux system and it's doing just fine. There's no deterioration on the wear indicator and things still launch instantly. Even low end budget SSDs are "faster" in benchmarks nowadays but has anyone gone from one of these ancient SSDs to a new one on the same machine and actually noticed any real world difference?

# ? Aug 29, 2016 11:42

metallicaeg: Nov 28, 2005; Evil Red Wings Owner Wario Lemieux Steals Stanley Cup

I like that Intel 600p since I have two M.2 slots waiting to be used (even if only one is PCIe), but the green PCB doesn't match my black board with blue heatsinks, blue RAM, and blue accented EVGA 970.

:goonsay:

# ? Aug 29, 2016 13:39

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 10:57

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Again, it does bear mentioning that the 600p has a warranty of 5y or 72 TB Written (TBW) over the entire product line (120GB-1TB). To put that into perspective, the 850 EVOs are warrantied for 75 TBW for the 120 & 250GB models, 150 TBW for the 500GB & 1TB models, and 300TBW for the 2 & 4TB models, with 5y on all SKUs.

It makes me want to wait for the 960 EVO, to be frank, which might launch sooner rather than later thanks to these.

Also - I still wouldn't use one for anything other than a Steam drive, but this is good news for anyone wanting a cheaper 2TB EVO: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/crucial-mx300-2tb-ssd-price,32568.html

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Aug 29, 2016

# ? Aug 29, 2016 14:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The SSD Megathread - Be nice to Alereon you jerks

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