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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


as soon as i have to get a proper assembly belt of purple circuits rather than just bunging stuff together for power armor and associated modules i'm going to die irl

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Talky
Mar 26, 2010
EDIT: Never-mind, walking in and out of the logistics zone a few times and it all started working again. Weird.

Does anyone have any ideas about what might be keeping my logistics bots from delivering items I request and/or emptying my trash slots?

I'm standing in the logistics zone of my main base, I have the items I want in storage or passive providers, I have room in storage chests for the trash, my power situation is good, and I have hundreds of available bots and an auto-loader that builds and feeds in more if I ever run out. So I can't figure out what's stopping it from working.

I'm running 14.0, and my only mods are:

RSO
Auto Deconstruct
Auto Fill
Base Mod
FARL
Rail Tanker
Tree Collision
Yet Another Resource Monitor Fork

Talky fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 1, 2016

Slickdrac
Oct 5, 2007

Not allowed to have nice things

Phssthpok posted:

Here's a nice refinery layout with room for beacons:



No space for beacons, but can fit into narrow spaces if needed.

Toadsmash
Jun 10, 2009

Dave Tate's downsy face approves.
The first time I got far enough to have to think about the massive number of purple circuits I'd need in the endgame for even a meager factory was incidentally the first time I started seriously thinking about ratios. Which I imagine is intended.

Purple circuits just require such a monumental amount of infrastructure to produce in useful quantities anyway compared to what the game would have forced upon you at pre-end game tech levels that reaching them the first time (or rather, the products that require them -- most new players will probably tech to them dozens of hours before they'll need to mass produce them for anything) essentially makes you start to rethink your entire factory, or else you're going to end up with some hilariously broken layout that you can't even begin to guess how you're going to expand or fix because of how much time you just wasted doing it wrong.

At least, that's how it was for me!

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



I don't know if anyone else here has said it yet so I'll just point this out:
For the longest time I've said that Factorio was a game for people with programmatic minds. In other words, if you loved Factorio, you'd probably enjoy programming. The only other game I've ever said this about was Final Fantasy 12, as its combat system is primarily "if->then-else" statements. With factorissimo now being a thing, Factorio is now kicked up another notch in the programmatic mind genre because those factories you're making? Those are methods and classes. Mmmmm I love how nerdy this damned game is.

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009

KUVA TEAM EPIC

DaveKap posted:

I don't know if anyone else here has said it yet so I'll just point this out:
For the longest time I've said that Factorio was a game for people with programmatic minds. In other words, if you loved Factorio, you'd probably enjoy programming. The only other game I've ever said this about was Final Fantasy 12, as its combat system is primarily "if->then-else" statements. With factorissimo now being a thing, Factorio is now kicked up another notch in the programmatic mind genre because those factories you're making? Those are methods and classes. Mmmmm I love how nerdy this damned game is.

My father is a literal chip designer. When he saw me playing this on steam, I warned him not to get it because I might never see him again. and then he bought it

But yeah it's all about input and output and stuff.

With regards to sulfuric acid production, I find it will depend a great deal on how much you are planning to go heavy into solar power + accumulators or not. Accumulators use a CRAPTON of batteries. I've actually got a pretty large sulfur and acid production area going just to feed the ever expanding solar arrays. And I'm not even using laser turrets!

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I've gone full solar full laser in my two completed games and never needed more than one sulfuric plant. I may also be slightly ponderous as I also don't try for There is no Spoon, and get bored by the time it comes to make a mega factory for rocket per minute counts.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


DaveKap posted:

I don't know if anyone else here has said it yet so I'll just point this out:
For the longest time I've said that Factorio was a game for people with programmatic minds. In other words, if you loved Factorio, you'd probably enjoy programming. The only other game I've ever said this about was Final Fantasy 12, as its combat system is primarily "if->then-else" statements. With factorissimo now being a thing, Factorio is now kicked up another notch in the programmatic mind genre because those factories you're making? Those are methods and classes. Mmmmm I love how nerdy this damned game is.

What's strange is, software development is exactly what my day to day job is. Perhaps that's why I get so into the game, but it sure doesn't explain why I have such a bad head for good design and ratios. :v:

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I would argue the programmatic and logical part only reaches as far as understanding your factory only does exactly what you ask it to. From there there is a huge amount of industrial design and management whether you ratio everything perfectly (I don't think anyone does this but it helps you troubleshoot and understand key process indications), run important feedstocks in a push manner (make all the green circuit factories well before you need them), set up pulls in the correct manner (production limits of buildables and consumables, bus priority such that research and rocket parts get first pick over consumables), address process monuments (furnaces and oil refineries are a big deal because just about everything you build touches your furnace or oil complex), efficient warehousing (rail stops, buses), etc. etc.

I am only not surprised it hasn't been picked up by some Lean certification mill because a lot of the best practices are bad habits in settings that are more constrained by capital compared to Factorio's "just drop another 50 mines and it'll be OK."

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted
Soiled Meat

Ciaphas posted:

What's strange is, software development is exactly what my day to day job is. Perhaps that's why I get so into the game, but it sure doesn't explain why I have such a bad head for good design and ratios. :v:

Sooo, you do javascript? :rimshot:

Says the Perl guy. Hur hur.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Ratzap posted:

Sooo, you do javascript? :rimshot:

Says the Perl guy. Hur hur.

Ew, god no. I do C++ (this may or may not be worse) [gently caress pointer abuse oh my god]

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I'm actually pretty close to being done with research entirely in my game, I think I have some half dozen techs left. Only took like ten hours to do of game time (oh my god how could it possibly have been ten hours already)

I suppose at some point I should learn how drones and logistics networks, er, work. I've never actually tried to build either one! Or maybe I should set up speed / productivity module factories. Hm.

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted
Soiled Meat

Ciaphas posted:

Ew, god no. I do C++ (this may or may not be worse) [gently caress pointer abuse oh my god]

When I was into X11 stuff ages ago I'd use the precompiler to turn c++ into c so I could read it. It was easier than learning about c++ (well, probably not easier but lazy man gotta laze).


Ciaphas posted:

I'm actually pretty close to being done with research entirely in my game, I think I have some half dozen techs left. Only took like ten hours to do of game time (oh my god how could it possibly have been ten hours already)

I suppose at some point I should learn how drones and logistics networks, er, work. I've never actually tried to build either one! Or maybe I should set up speed / productivity module factories. Hm.

Always set up a (limited) chain for modules because you need them for the armour. Personally I barely ever bother with them unless I'm building an after rocket mega factory for giggles.
You haven't lived till you command hundreds of bots to go lay 10,000 slabs of concrete :) Go play with robots and we'll see you in a couple of hours.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Need to set up concrete production first :v: But yeah that sounds like a good idea, I'll make drone production my goal when I get home tonight.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Ratzap posted:

When I was into X11 stuff ages ago

I'm so sorry... I hope you finally XCloseDisplay'd that part of your life.

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009

KUVA TEAM EPIC
Why did I not bus green circuits before, good god I am dumb.

Ignoranus
Jun 3, 2006

HAPPY MORNING

Solumin posted:

Of course, you can avoid all this and just use a tool like Factoratio or Factorio Production Planner.

I know I could do the math by hand, but - wasn't there a version of these tools that allowed you to specify modules as well?

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013

Ignoranus posted:

I know I could do the math by hand, but - wasn't there a version of these tools that allowed you to specify modules as well?

If there is, I haven't seen it. If you're just focusing on ratios, putting the same modules in every assembling machine would do the trick, I guess? I don't use them much.

GenericOverusedName posted:

Why did I not bus green circuits before, good god I am dumb.

The bus layout I used for a while is 4 iron plate lanes, 4 copper plate lanes, 2 green circuit lanes and 1 steel plate lane. It works OK until you hit things like mass producing red and blue circuits.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Ignoranus posted:

I know I could do the math by hand, but - wasn't there a version of these tools that allowed you to specify modules as well?
I think Foreman is the go to if you're wondering about modules. It solves for minimum number of assemblers. Which is the correct answer because productivity modules is only a good investment on a small fraction of products and efficiency modules is for communists.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
Putting in all speed modules wouldn't change the ratios (I don't think) but putting in productivity would change the ratios.

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

GenericOverusedName posted:

Why did I not bus green circuits before, good god I am dumb.

It's not a big deal what you do or don't bus. There's something appealing about having each assembly be self sufficient, and only take in iron/copper. As long as you build in the right ratios, it reduces the kinds of supply problems you can have.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Speed mods in everything doesn't change ratios
Speed mods in one type of assmb will change ratios against the others (making wire 1:1 with chips, etc)

Production 3 modules are the only things worth using anyway (except pumpjacks) since it's free material from nothing (or rather, from power (which is from real estate (which is infinite which means free))). Short games where you launch one rocket? Sure, they won't pay for themselves in time except in the launcher itself, but anything longer and they pay for themselves eventually and everything after that is free!

Problems:
a) My factory backs up because now my assemblers/furnaces are too slow
Solution: more assemblers. Put Prod3s in them too

b) Now I'm out of power
Solution: more solars, doy

c) I can't put Prod3s in this particular assembler or beacon
Solution: fine, put speeds in there. Don't even think of other modules (refer to [b])

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Prod 3s on anything less raw intensive than green and blue circuits and RCUs take like 15-30 hours to recoup costs. Green and blue and RCUs are only about 5 hours.

I usually get bored of a map by about hour 20 for reference but maybe I'm the odd duck.

Doing 3 prod 3s and 1 speed 3 halves the recoup period so if you're going to do it at least do the sensible thing and do that and replace the speed 3 with a prod 3 5-15 hours later.

e. For an infinite length game, you are putting off more materials sooner using full prod 3s compared to mixing them with 1 speed 3. Considering you need to quit the game at some point before infinite, you are best off mixing that speed 3 in until the recoup period is over, no matter how hard free materials makes your dick.

ee. Or in plainer words, your capital net worth will go up faster if you mix in speed 3s with your prod 3s

zedprime fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 1, 2016

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted
Soiled Meat

Suspicious Dish posted:

I'm so sorry... I hope you finally XCloseDisplay'd that part of your life.

Thankfully they hired a new guy a year or two after Xfree86 started up and got the whole X thing moving at which point I palmed it all off on him 'to focus on other cross platform applications'. :laugh:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


zedprime posted:

I think Foreman is the go to if you're wondering about modules. It solves for minimum number of assemblers. Which is the correct answer because productivity modules is only a good investment on a small fraction of products and efficiency modules is for communists.

I could not make Foreman run on my machine, it just keeps giving the old "Object reference is not set to an instance of an object" malarkey after I select my Factorio directory.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Dr. Stab posted:

It's not a big deal what you do or don't bus. There's something appealing about having each assembly be self sufficient, and only take in iron/copper. As long as you build in the right ratios, it reduces the kinds of supply problems you can have.

I can't imagine not bussing steel, at least early on when you need coal to run through your furnaces.

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009

KUVA TEAM EPIC

Dr. Stab posted:

It's not a big deal what you do or don't bus. There's something appealing about having each assembly be self sufficient, and only take in iron/copper. As long as you build in the right ratios, it reduces the kinds of supply problems you can have.

Thing is I do have basically one big belt of green circuits, but its weaving all over the factory as a horrific spaghetti snake and I'm not able to expand it at all as a result. And I need more red and blue circuits, dangit!

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Ciaphas posted:

I could not make Foreman run on my machine, it just keeps giving the old "Object reference is not set to an instance of an object" malarkey after I select my Factorio directory.
The good news is Foreman is kind of obtuse because there's nothing really stopping you from Just Building More and there are more user friendly tools to get better rule of thumb ratios since it will do weird poo poo like specify different configurations of speed modules to minimize assembler count.

GenericOverusedName posted:

Thing is I do have basically one big belt of green circuits, but its weaving all over the factory as a horrific spaghetti snake and I'm not able to expand it at all as a result. And I need more red and blue circuits, dangit!
On my first rocket launching factory I back fed a new circuit set up into an old circuit set up but the old circuit set up was already feeding forward into a shared circuit belt. So against all better advice I had created a dreaded belt ouroboros.

Bussing green circuits is a decent idea for certain set ups, but they are so easy to make in situ because they are just an iron plate and a copper plate input and 5 assemblers that you can start making more green circuits anywhere you can see a belt full of iron or copper.

Dr. Stab
Sep 12, 2010
👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

GenericOverusedName posted:

Thing is I do have basically one big belt of green circuits, but its weaving all over the factory as a horrific spaghetti snake and I'm not able to expand it at all as a result. And I need more red and blue circuits, dangit!

If you do bus green chips, I still might just build them in place for red chips.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


How does multiplayer work in this game now that dedicated servers are a thing, anyway? Do new people just run for like five years until they find a new open spot or steal from other people or what?

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted
Soiled Meat

Ciaphas posted:

How does multiplayer work in this game now that dedicated servers are a thing, anyway? Do new people just run for like five years until they find a new open spot or steal from other people or what?

Now that surfaces and teams are a thing, I'm waiting for real fun MP scenarios to appear. Teams would be cool. Everyone lands on the same planet, say 5000 chunks apart, then proceeds to build their own factory. Swap resources, battle for patches?

At the moment though it's mostly co-op work though there are some pvp setups about.

Qubee
May 31, 2013




Ahhhh, I've hit that typical "my main factory isn't as neat, efficient and autistic as I like. I want to start over!" wall. But I'm not gonna give into the temptation and just start a new map. I'm going to set up a train station a few miles out of my main base and build a brand new base from the ground up, whilst relying on my old base's infrastructure to keep me afloat.

I'm 9 hours in and still haven't automated blue science because I put my stuff too far apart to allow my base to get all the resources it needs to automate.

Ignoranus
Jun 3, 2006

HAPPY MORNING

Evilreaver posted:

Speed mods in everything doesn't change ratios

I was trying to readjust my green chip manufacturing and determine how many assembler 3s I need to fully load a blue belt, so the speed is somewhat relevant; some cursory looking around appears to indicate that it's pretty straightforward for Assembler 3s with Speed 3s in then - furthermore, then, how much copper/iron I need to feed in (one full belt or multiples?) in order to make it happen.

I'm trying to make the shift and compress my factory into factorissimi, very very slowly.

EDIT: if I'm understanding this output correctly, that means that 16 assembler 3s at full tilt will fill a blue belt, which would mean I'd need 6 with full Speed 3s in them; either way, that means 40 iron/s and 60 copper/s. Is this about right?

Ignoranus fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 2, 2016

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013
FYI, electric mining drills are roughly 1 : 1 with steel/electric furnaces, so you'll need 105 electric mining drills copper and another 70 for iron. That's assuming no modules in the drills or furnaces, of course.

Full Speed 3 modules is +200% speed, right? Which would give Assembling Machine 3 a crafting speed of 3.75, which does work out to 6 Assembling Machine 3s. (well, actually 5.333, but...) It will take 40 iron/second and 60 copper/second, which will give you 40 green circuits/s but not fully utilize the 6th assembling machine.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Ok well it's a sucky system but yay bots



robits are cool :)

tomorrow's plan: build more robits, get concrete going (oh god it takes iron ore? gently caress you game :mad:) and salt the earth

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Sep 2, 2016

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
Belt ratios are even easier to work out than assembler ratios, since you don't need to consider recipe and assembler speed at all.

Building two green circuits takes three copper plates (for wire) and two iron plates (for the circuits). Hence, if you want two full lanes (i.e. one full belt) of circuits, you need one full belt of iron, and one-and-a-half (three lanes) of copper.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


After concrete tomorrow I need to figure out when best to (and NOT to) use 'bots and how many of each kind I really need or want

Construction bots seem to have a useful limit especially since you only get to use 10 at a time per personal roboport. Logistics... I guess just the more the merrier?? Seems like it'd be really hard on lube and other things over time though

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Ciaphas posted:

What's strange is, software development is exactly what my day to day job is. Perhaps that's why I get so into the game, but it sure doesn't explain why I have such a bad head for good design and ratios. :v:
That's because programming doesn't really have a "best practice" because so many people disagree on how to do something right. And ratios are taken care of by the maths computers that do the maths for us. ;)

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

DaveKap posted:

That's because programming doesn't really have a "best practice" because so many people disagree on how to do something right. And ratios are taken care of by the maths computers that do the maths for us. ;)

As a programmer who Factorios I barely ever try and get the ratios right at all. My technique is to notice something isn't getting enough input and just throw more at it. Green circuits not getting enough copper? Make more copper. Don't have enough ore? Get more ore. Then if I have too much input I just pull it off later and put it into storage, since unlike real life that has basically zero cost.

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milward
Nov 5, 2009

I decided to get back in the game after a break and to try the modpack that was posted from the MP game and oh god bobs is massive.

I have no idea what I am doing and I have all these new ores and it is wonderful :allears:

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