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I'm gonna reveal my privilege and say that I went to a private high school. I have a feeling the one I was at was an exception because bad students would be expelled or "uninvited to return" if they failed a year, so as to keep the graduation rates and grades higher. Also the teachers were the only good thing about that place. If you failed a math exam the teacher would call ya up and tell you what you did wrong and then tell you he's registered you for after-school math class (this happened to me).
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Sep 6, 2016 16:44
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Ceciltron posted:I'm gonna reveal my privilege and say that I went to a private high school. I have a feeling the one I was at was an exception because bad students would be expelled or "uninvited to return" if they failed a year, so as to keep the graduation rates and grades higher. Also the teachers were the only good thing about that place. Just curious for the uninitiated, how would one find out if the private school follow this line of thinking?
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Sep 6, 2016 17:25
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Public education is one of democracy s greatest egalitarian institutions. Don't send your kids to private school.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:27
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Lmao gently caress you I have the resources to give my kid an edge I'm gonna loving take it
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Sep 6, 2016 17:31
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namaste faggots posted:Lmao gently caress you I have the resources to give my kid an edge I'm gonna loving take it Enjoy pissing your money away I guess 
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Sep 6, 2016 17:38
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Ikantski posted:Yeah teachers are working class Care to expand here?
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Sep 6, 2016 17:46
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Public education is one of democracy s greatest egalitarian institutions. Don't send your kids to private school. It's great until the public school system is overwhelmed by external factors that's not as prevalent in the private schools.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:46
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namaste faggots posted:Lmao gently caress you I have the resources to give my kid an edge I'm gonna loving take it Isn't that what after school tutoring/violin/piano/weekend language school is for?
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Sep 6, 2016 17:55
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jm20 posted:Isn't that what after school tutoring/violin/piano/weekend language school is for? No, it's what donating meaningful sums to the school is about.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:57
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quaint bucket posted:Just curious for the uninitiated, how would one find out if the private school follow this line of thinking? My guess? Entry testing. Places that have heavy competition for entry and only admit based on test results might follow that line of thinking.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:58
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OSI bean dip posted:Care to expand here? A sarcastic quip at the notion that an Ontario teacher making 95k a http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/reformcommission/chapters/report.pdf posted:Moreover, about half of teachers are at the top level of the salary range (nearly $95,000 per year), up from about one-third in 2002–03.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:11
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I have friends in Ontario who worked and are working for private schools. Because of the glut of unemployed young teachers right now, they're happy to hire you and pay you 30-35k to work like an animal. No benefits and short-term contracts only.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:13
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Professor Shark posted:My girlfriend interviewed for a position at a private school. During the interview they made it clear that they didn't want someone with too much experience working in the public school system. She asked questions about curriculum and participation in provincial testing and they basically told her that they do their own thing and their students do not take provincial tests. Because I would think it was hilarious if people were blowing 50K a year on a school which couldn't even meet provincial standards.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:16
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Ceciltron posted:My guess? Entry testing. Places that have heavy competition for entry and only admit based on test results might follow that line of thinking. Good point. I'll look into it along with extracurricular activities. Thanks!
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Sep 6, 2016 18:16
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Albino Squirrel posted:Wait, is this a prep school like Upper Canada College, or one of the weird Christian ones like we have out in Alberta? Or something in between? Somewhere in between, I guess, and yeah if I were running a Private School the only reason I wouldn't want to participate in provincial testing would be because it might reveal that my student's grades were equal to those of public school students... or even worse, lower. Provincial exams are marked based on 10 digit codes each student gets in a room full of teachers from all over the province, no way to play with the grades.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:25
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Ceciltron posted:I'm gonna reveal my privilege and say that I went to a private high school. I have a feeling the one I was at was an exception because bad students would be expelled or "uninvited to return" if they failed a year, so as to keep the graduation rates and grades higher. this is my fave SOP of charter schools down south for staying Above The Mean; jettison anyone who drags down the school's standardized test scores and force the public system to take them on
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Sep 6, 2016 19:00
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Wait, are private schools exempt from ministry exams in the rest of canada? I thought everyone had to do the provincial exams regardless of public or private. Is Quebec different?
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Sep 6, 2016 19:01
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Ontario mandates it, ex https://eqaoweb.eqao.com/eqaoweborgprofile/profile.aspx?_Mident=7472&Lang=E
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Sep 6, 2016 19:22
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a primate posted:I have friends in Ontario who worked and are working for private schools. Because of the glut of unemployed young teachers right now, they're happy to hire you and pay you 30-35k to work like an animal. No benefits and short-term contracts only. re: What I said above about pissing money away, does anyone think these teachers provide as good an education as those paid 2x/3x as much, with ample job protection to boot, in the public system? The answer is unequivocally no.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:35
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Evan "hey wanna buy some art" Salomon lmao
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Sep 6, 2016 20:08
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lollers http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Canada&city=Vancouver quote:#pOpUlar on Aug 08, 2016 :
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Sep 6, 2016 20:32
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I imagine any benefit private school students have is more correlated with their parents income rate rather any increase in quality of education provided by private schools
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Sep 6, 2016 20:33
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Ikantski posted:A sarcastic quip at the notion that an Ontario teacher making 95k a My girlfriend is a public sector teacher and to be blunt it seems like a pretty sweet gig. It was a lovely 3 years getting from volunteer to supply to LTO to permanent but once there you're golden. They don't all make 95k but they do very well on average if they do some certs and just stick with it. Some people just do LTOs forever due to the flexibility. If she had taught French she could have been hired right out of teachers college with little to no volunteering. I don't begrudge her the fortunes of her career but it does seem like there should be a trade off. Teachers have good job security, great wages, great benefits, a fantastic pension and 2 months of the year off (more if you count holiday/PA days). In exchange they are expected to do some extracurricular stuff and sometimes need to do lesson plans/marking at home, though they are given adequate "prep" time sessions for this stuff too as part of their bargaining. Dealing with kids/parents can be tough but considering what they get back it seems more than fair. Anyway I try not to be all crab in a bucket about it but they don't really seem to understand how good they have it in today's job market. The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 20:39
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see also: nurses
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Sep 6, 2016 20:57
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The Gunslinger posted:I don't begrudge her the fortunes of her career but it does seem like there should be a trade off. Teachers have good job security, great wages, great benefits, a fantastic pension and 2 months of the year off (more if you count holiday/PA days). In exchange they are expected to do some extracurricular stuff and sometimes need to do lesson plans/marking at home, though they are given adequate "prep" time sessions for this stuff too as part of their bargaining. Dealing with kids/parents can be tough but considering what they get back it seems more than fair. Anyway I try not to be all crab in a bucket about it but they don't really seem to understand how good they have it in today's job market. Why should there be a "trade off"? What's wrong with good jobs existing? Shouldn't we want teaching to be an attractive and lucrative position so talented people go into it and create better and better educated citizens?
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Sep 6, 2016 21:17
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The trade off is they have to deal with your lovely kids all day, and work for free in the evenings, and then a couple times a year they have to confront you personally.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:33
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It's not like teacher is some elite posting only available to aristocracy. If it's such a sweet gig you're welcome to go back to school for your BEd and become one. Have fun.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:34
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We won't be a sleek, streamlined society of productivity and efficiency until everyone who isn't a boss or working on some lovely twitter plug-in is paid wages below the poverty line. All must suffer.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:36
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I sit in a chair and push buttons all day with no degree and I get paid more than a teacher with similar experience level. I don't begrudge them the fortunes of their career, but there has to be some kind of trade off!
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Sep 6, 2016 21:38
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leftist heap posted:It's not like teacher is some elite posting only available to aristocracy. If it's such a sweet gig you're welcome to go back to school for your BEd and become one. Have fun. Ontarians in particular have a serious hate on for teachers. I've heard quite a few boomers getting down on teachers for being lazy, making too much money, not doing a good enough job, etc. It's too bad people don't respect teachers more, they've got a pretty loving important job.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:40
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If teaching was an important job, we'd let the free market decide what they're worth. Glorified babysitters, I tells ya...
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Sep 6, 2016 21:44
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Ceciltron posted:Wait, are private schools exempt from ministry exams in the rest of canada? I thought everyone had to do the provincial exams regardless of public or private. Is Quebec different? I double checked with my girlfriend in case I got that detail wrong- she confirmed that at least two years ago, they didn't do provincial exams. Also that the Vice Principal or whatever he was pretty much ended the interview as soon as she brought them and curriculum up.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:06
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I thought I read somewhere that teachers are highly paid compared to the general average, but are actually underpaid compared to their education level.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:15
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Professor Shark posted:I double checked with my girlfriend in case I got that detail wrong- she confirmed that at least two years ago, they didn't do provincial exams. Also that the Vice Principal or whatever he was pretty much ended the interview as soon as she brought them and curriculum up. I think anyone, prospective employee or prospective parents looking at that school, should be raising their eyebrows a little bit at that behaviour.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:28
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Scaramouche posted:I thought I read somewhere that teachers are highly paid compared to the general average, but are actually underpaid compared to their education level. Yes in America. Not so much in Canada. quote:The OECD collected an exhaustive amount of data on teacher salaries: salaries by years of seniority; hours worked; and total compensation for its 34 member countries. The data was then adjusted so it could be compared across countries, converting all earnings into U.S. dollars using ‘purchasing power parity.’
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Sep 6, 2016 22:33
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People like Ikantski like to bemoan teachers because they're easy targets to go after because you know taxes and poo poo. That said, in a class of 30, that means your kid's subsidized daycare costs $300/mo per teacher. Is your kid at least worth $300/mo? $15/day to keep your kid educated seems like a bargain!
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Sep 6, 2016 22:34
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If your girlfriend isn't spending a ton of time outside of work doing marking/prep work then she's a pretty lovely teacher, since teachers are absolutely not given that time and paid for it. In BC teachers are paid for 15 minutes before the bell goes in the morning and 15 minutes after it goes in the afternoon to do all of their prep work. Also professional development days are just that, treating it as an extra day off is even more proof that your GF is lovely at teaching, because it's not supposed to be that. My mom's at school from 8:30am to 8pm sometimes, doing a good 4 hours of that completely unpaid, to make sure her students have the best possible education. But please, keep going on about how she doesn't deserve her salary because she gets two months off a year. Spoiler alert: it's not two months off, because there's still a ton of course prep work to be done.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:43
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OSI bean dip posted:People like Ikantski like to bemoan teachers because they're easy targets to go after because you know taxes and poo poo. That said, in a class of 30, that means your kid's subsidized daycare costs $300/mo per teacher. No man, just don't try to pass them off as the working class, it's bullshit. Like Hookshot said, they work hard and they get compensated well like almost everybody else in the top 10% of earners. Good on (Ontario) teachers for collectively bargaining a shitload of money and funding a nice retirement by capitalizing on insuring Vancouver mortgages and lobbying against higher downpayments.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:53
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In general there are two types of private schools in Vancouver (not sure how well this generalizes to the rest of Canada) -- a very small handful of elite schools, mostly on the west side of Vancouver or in West Vancouver (Vancouver College, St. George's, Little Flower Academy, York House, etc). They are really expensive, have entrance requirements, have really high provincial exam scores (largely through correlations with family income/intent, etc), and pay teachers competitively to public schools (though still maybe less when pensions are considered). Probably a decent school to go to if money is no object and you want little Aidan to go to an Ivy League school or rub elbows with the scions of other prominent Vancouver families. However public schools in these areas tend to be very good as well (among the best in Canada, easily), and possibly even better in some cases, meaning that the overall value proposition is not particularly good. Because the competing public schools are so good, at least the end result isn't a two-tiered education for the rich and everyone else. The rest are lower-tier private schools, often religious or catering to ESL students. They cost significantly less, are not selective, are undistinguished academically (often scoring lower than public schools in the same areas), and really, really lowball their teachers when it comes to pay (esp. considering the aforementioned pension issue). They are still able to hire without too much difficulty because of how difficult it is for new teachers to break into the public school system (you're looking at multiple years on a sub list in most cases). Unless your kid is getting bullied mercilessly at the local public school or something similar, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to send your kid to a school of this type (and if it's not clear which type of private school it is, it's this type). Scaramouche posted:I thought I read somewhere that teachers are highly paid compared to the general average, but are actually underpaid compared to their education level. This is only true if you consider a B.Ed or especially an M.Ed the equivalent of other postsecondary degrees. And this isn't some sort of 'STEM master race' derail, education students are also on average worse than liberal arts/humanities/social sciences students as well. I posted a little bit about it here, or see LSAT scores or GRE scores.
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Sep 6, 2016 23:41
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I find it hilarious that you all would spend upwards of 3x annual income in a house but a private high school education is a waste of money*. This is literally irl idiocracy *Which would be true of religious private schools like, lmao the catholic moron train that is Vancouver college, st Thomas More, and evangelical cesspools like Pacific academy
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Sep 6, 2016 23:42
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