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I'm OK with lives systems- I generally see criticism of their atavistic nature as being overstated. So long as they don't hit the frustration "sweet spot", I think lives still have a negative motivational role that's beneficial even if they're superficial in practice.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:11
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The problem with lives in modern Sonic output is the predilection the level design team has for hurling new players off cliffs basically every chance they get. In 2d Sonics you do die here and there, but one misclick or fall isn't an instant death. With Sonic Mania I doubt they're going to have the same brain problems Sonic Team has and so I think they're fine. And I do like bonus stages! Sonic Lost World is horrendous for this. I dropped the game when I died in the shadow section where you jump onto a rising and falling platform that dips below the screen line. I jumped down and Sonic "died" while I could still see him on screen. This is the point where you start thinking someone is masturbating to this. The only other issue is hopefully they have a 'speed run mode' where once you've cleared a level or the game you can just try to jam for time without worrying about lives. S-ranking levels in Generations was annoying for this, why does Start Over cost a life? Who cares?
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Sep 7, 2016 21:08
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Spiderdrake posted:The only other issue is hopefully they have a 'speed run mode' where once you've cleared a level or the game you can just try to jam for time without worrying about lives. S-ranking levels in Generations was annoying for this, why does Start Over cost a life? Who cares? Yeah, this has always been a weird thing in most Sonic games to me, since Start->Restart Level costs you a life, but Start->Quit to Main Menu->Load Game->Start the same level costs 0 lives but more time. It's like they're charging you a life for the convenience of not having to sit through a bunch of loading screens.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:13
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Thinking more on this, I actually had a lot of fun with Sonic 3 & Knuckles' and also Knuckles' Chaotix's non-emerald special stages that you only get lives, powerups and rings from. They're kinda chill since there's really no risk in doing them. I will write Christian Whitehead my idea and get this into the game pronto.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:34
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Generations has a time trial mode though, where lines don't exist.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:51
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The thing about lives is that usually they don't matter at all except for the occasional moment where they suddenly become a giant pain in the rear end. There are plenty of other, more elegant ways to make death a meaningful punishment these days.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:52
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Amppelix posted:Generations has a time trial mode though, where lines don't exist. Playing all the levels in that mode is one of the two achievements left for me to 100% it on steam and I'm not even sure it's working
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Sep 7, 2016 23:38
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One thing I did like about Sonic Unleashed for the Wii is that you always start a level with a set amount of lives and you can upgrade that number throughout the game. I liked that system a lot actually and wouldn't mind if they put it in more games.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:39
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beep by grandpa posted:One thing I like about sonic 3 were the sheer amount of special stages in s3&k. Not quite the same things though you could still count them... Sonic advance 3 has a couple of extra different Bonus area types just for lives. A 'break the capsule' minigame, and a 'destroy all the enemies' in under 30 seconds map for each zone. The destroy all enemies one has a neat CD throwback in that all the robots drop seeds/flowers when destroyed. Spinball has the bonus tables between maps, as well as a bonus multi ball table for getting all a levels rings. Just for the bonus points. 8Bit Sonic1 has bonus stages just for 1ups/points. I think that's all of them? Nothing quite on S3Ks level though, which is a shame as they are neat. A giant gumball machine... sure why not? Felt really proud as a dumb kid when I got out of that stage where the lazer thing vertically chases you too. Edit; I'm really really stretching your definition now, but there are the mini games in the Chao gardens for Advance1/2 and Pinball Party. Paused fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 00:35
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Simsmagic posted:One thing I did like about Sonic Unleashed for the Wii is that you always start a level with a set amount of lives and you can upgrade that number throughout the game. I liked that system a lot actually and wouldn't mind if they put it in more games. the bad part about that is that you need to grind medals to unlock the puzzle rooms that contain the max lives counter upgrades, but the good part about that is that you get to play the puzzle rooms.
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Sep 8, 2016 01:28
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El Mido posted:the bad part about that is that you need to grind medals to unlock the puzzle rooms that contain the max lives counter upgrades, but the good part about that is that you get to play the puzzle rooms. I don't really mind this because getting medals isn't that awful in the Wii version, it's just doing well on stages = more medals. It's a better system than the HD version's "search every nook and cranny in every level" at least. What's weird is that I prefer the systems of the Wii version a lot more than the HD version between how lives and medals work, but the level designs in that game are just the worst. If it had better level design I don't think it'd be quite so (rightfully) overlooked in favor of the PS360 version.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:18
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yes, if it were a better game than the hd version it wouldn't be overlooked as much in favor of the hd version 
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Sep 8, 2016 05:43
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I really like the Wii version's decision of, instead of making gigantic humongous Werehog levels, making several 5-minute long levels. The Werehog exhaustion is much easier to avoid when you actually get a break every now and then. Although it leads to a different problem where you keep unlocking level after level of Werehog and have to keep wondering where it'll end. I think Eggmanland has literally 6 of them? After one Sonic level, as always.
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Sep 8, 2016 13:25
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The Werehog levels become significantly quicker and more bearable when you have decent stats, which is why I always recommend spamming the Apotos DLC Act 1 Night stage, because you clock up EXP at about thirty times the normal rate.
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Sep 8, 2016 13:33
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Augus posted:yes, if it were a better game than the hd version it wouldn't be overlooked as much in favor of the hd version But it is a better game than the hd version.
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Sep 8, 2016 13:49
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I wonder why the werehog never showed up in future games like all the other crappy Sonic character. Yeah, he's a transformation and not a separate character but kids love the werehog so who cares.
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Sep 8, 2016 13:59
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I dispute your assertion that anyone likes the werehog.
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Sep 8, 2016 14:20
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I maintain that if they just subbed in Knuckles for the werehog then it would get about 35% less hate.
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Sep 8, 2016 14:30
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Dabir posted:I dispute your assertion that anyone likes the werehog. The werehog was insanely popular with children, ostensibly Sonic's biggest audience.
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Sep 8, 2016 14:45
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Simsmagic posted:I don't really mind this because getting medals isn't that awful in the Wii version, it's just doing well on stages = more medals. It's a better system than the HD version's "search every nook and cranny in every level" at least. If you're going all-in on unlocking puzzle rooms and extra missions though you do have to scour the levels for collectable art and music since some missions (and therefore medals earned by beating them) are arbitrarily locked by having X amount of macguffins gathered. Then you might as well collect all the doodads just to unlock the shittiest daytime level in the game which holds the last doodad: a cg movie of Sonic and Chip fighting over a meat bun.  e: the best version of Sonic Unleashed is clearly the Java version 
El Mido fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 14:53
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Dabir posted:I dispute your assertion that anyone likes the werehog.
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Sep 8, 2016 17:53
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I hope Sonic Mania contains some sort of reference to Dr. Robotnik's Deadly Speed Traps.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:14
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I listen to a podcast where the winners of weekly bets are awarded Werehogs for their efforts. So at least some kind souls out there are keeping it alive 
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Sep 8, 2016 19:26
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beep by grandpa posted:I listen to a podcast where the winners of weekly bets are awarded Werehogs for their efforts. So at least some kind souls out there are keeping it alive you admitted this
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Sep 8, 2016 19:45
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The Sonic twitter account asks if we would be interested in a Sonic Mania collectors edition ...
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Sep 8, 2016 19:58
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Elfgames posted:you admitted this EXCUSE me but what are you trying to say exactly. Listen up buckaroo if you're thinking about stepping up to grandpa, you do it or don't do it. You got something against werehogs, bitch?
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Sep 8, 2016 20:19
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modern sonic should turn into the werehog permanently and classic sonic should take over being sonic from now on.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:38
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The werehog was cool and I wouldn't mind at all controlling him in the Olympic Games or something like that
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Sep 8, 2016 21:18
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Davinci posted:The werehog was cool and I wouldn't mind at all controlling him in the Olympic Games or something like that I like the werehog form enough, it was a competent brawler, but I have to agree it was too jarring when compared to the speed sections. If it had been some entirely different game series, I'd have loved to see it. Werehog and Chip would be great partners for a whole series. I would honestly like to see some improved version of that kind of gameplay for a Knuckles game or something. Either way, the Egg Dragoon battle with it was a high point of the game, even if it was too easy. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 22:25
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I want to hear the werehog with Roger Craig Smith's voice.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:31
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Chieves posted:I maintain that if they just subbed in Knuckles for the werehog then it would get about 35% less hate. Too bad that doesn't fix the problem of the godawful obnoxious battle theme overriding the awesome night stage music every 10 seconds.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:50
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:The werehog was insanely popular with children, ostensibly Sonic's biggest audience. they liked jar jar binks too.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:56
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Granted I only had the Wii version, my problem with the Werehog was more about the quantity than the quality. If they could tweak the gameplay, I still think it could be a fun Knuckles thing. Of course, ultimately, I don't know why they don't just make everyone do action stages. That was my frustration with SA1 and SA2. Sonic has the best stages. Make everyone do that! And of course, the characters most people like after Sonic are Tails and Gamma. Because they have action stages with lil twists. And nobody likes Big or Rouge because they're so far from Sonic that it's maddening.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:08
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I think Sonic in general could use a lot of the Ico/SotC guy's well documented "design by subtraction" method where instead of adding a bunch of lovely half-baked ideas you just remove unnecessary bloat until the purest most well fleshed out features remain, and then build off of that.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:16
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beep by grandpa posted:I listen to a podcast where the winners of weekly bets are awarded Werehogs for their efforts. So at least some kind souls out there are keeping it alive Link pls SonicRulez posted:Granted I only had the Wii version, my problem with the Werehog was more about the quantity than the quality. If they could tweak the gameplay, I still think it could be a fun Knuckles thing. Of course, ultimately, I don't know why they don't just make everyone do action stages. That was my frustration with SA1 and SA2. Sonic has the best stages. Make everyone do that! And of course, the characters most people like after Sonic are Tails and Gamma. Because they have action stages with lil twists. And nobody likes Big or Rouge because they're so far from Sonic that it's maddening. Big's stages are great. 
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Sep 8, 2016 23:30
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Sue posted:The Sonic twitter account asks if we would be interested in a Sonic Mania collectors edition ... i still regret never getting the sonic generations collector's edition. why did it have to be europe only...
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Sep 8, 2016 23:57
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LIVE AND LEARN, HANGING ON THE EDGE OF TOMORROW,
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Sep 9, 2016 00:29
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Discendo Vox posted:Link pls http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199181&page=291 Do a ctrl+f for werehog (easy allies is my fav video game podcast, good jolly vibes all around. just like sonic)
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Sep 9, 2016 00:55
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sharrrk posted:i still regret never getting the sonic generations collector's edition. why did it have to be europe only... I think it was Europe+Anglesphere, but not North America. I imported it from... Australia I think. It was super expensive, but it came out around my birthday and I asked for it as a gift. I still have the statue and ring sitting next to me, though Classic Sonic's nose has broken off and I haven't gotten around to fixing him. I also love the PS3 theme. It's not really a savvy use of your gaming money in NA unless you're rolling in it or can get the game as a gift, but it's a nice bit of memorabilia.
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Sep 9, 2016 02:06
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Evil Eagle posted:I want to hear the werehog with Roger Craig Smith's voice. I want it to just be his Chris Redfield voice.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:55
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