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404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me

nopants posted:

Reddit had something interesting to say about the brownout when Angela went to the see the lawyer at her house. Basically, the lawyer was watching a news woman on TV when the scene started. Angela shows up and the power goes out briefly during the brownout. When the TV comes back on, the news woman says the exact same thing she said at the start of the scene. Brownouts are time travel confirmed.

Came to the thread to mention this one. I had to rewind it to make sure it was happening.

I don't wanna believe the time travel theories, but given how Esmail foreshadowed the Fight Club thing with the piano rendition of "Where Is My Mind" last season, the BttF music this episode combined with that little time glitch really seems to be pointing the show in that direction. I hope the show doesn't jump the shark... but Esmail has been consistently knocking it out of the park, so he might be able to make it work.

404notfound fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 15, 2016

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KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



blunt posted:

Shamelessly stolen from reddit but Angela's abductors ("Inconspicuous man/woman") are listed in the credits of 7 episodes and someone found most of them:

S02E02:


S02E04:


S02E05:



S02E08


Plus last week, this week and next week.

Lol, I want to believe. Show is rad if so

I've kind of had a feeling that someone has been looking at us when we are in open places with Angela, but I dunno if I was picking up on the people looking or what.

nopants
May 29, 2004

404notfound posted:

Came to the thread to mention this one. I had to rewind it to make sure it was happening.

I don't wanna believe the time travel theories, but given how Esmail foreshadowed the Fight Club thing with the piano rendition of "Where Is My Mind" last season, the BttF music this episode combined with that little time glitch really seems to be pointing the show in that direction. I hope the show doesn't jump the shark... but Esmail has been consistently knocking it out of the park, so he might be able to make it work.

I don't mind sci-fi or not sci-fi as long as it is well done. I am all for more Twin Peaks type scenes like this last episode. Time travel, replicants, or some other sci-fi thing won't be jumping the shark if that was Esmail's plan all along. Jumping the shark would be if the show was about to get canceled and Esmail then haphazardly inserted some time travel twist to try and save the show. Following a four season plan he's had planned out since the beginning isn't jumping the shark.

Shemp the Stooge
Feb 23, 2001

nopants posted:

I don't mind sci-fi or not sci-fi as long as it is well done. I am all for more Twin Peaks type scenes like this last episode. Time travel, replicants, or some other sci-fi thing won't be jumping the shark if that was Esmail's plan all along. Jumping the shark would be if the show was about to get canceled and Esmail then haphazardly inserted some time travel twist to try and save the show. Following a four season plan he's had planned out since the beginning isn't jumping the shark.

I don't have a problem with it either. I keep reminding myself that this started as a movie. Didn't someone in this thread mention that the first season was approximately the first 30 minutes of the movie? If that is the case it would make sense that this season was introducing more questions than answers. I am confident Mr. Esmail will bring everything together coherently in the end.

I suppose it's possible I might not like what it ultimately turns out to be but I expect it to be well planned.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Out of everything great in the episode, I think my favorite part was Price going,"Beat you? Come on, you've known me for so many years you should know me better by now.... I don't care about you at all!"

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.
I really, really don't want to say this, but if this were some sort of Blade Runner precursor and Angela and Elliot are first gen replicants, I would totally dig it.

I don't think they are though. I think it's an idiotic theory.

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

What was that entire "test" scene with the girl and Angela about? And the dying fish and poster? I did not see the reason for it at all.

Unless it was like a Voit kampff test?

And this is dumb but I had a thought that it would be pretty cool if whitestar and his male self were like the male/female Lutecesse twins from Bioshock Infinite. Time travel experiment causes quantum chance to bring the male and female versions of the same person together.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012
RIGHT OR WRONG, I CAN’T HELP BUT EXPRESS MYSELF LIKE A BRATTY CHILD. DON’T LISTEN TO ME.

Varam posted:

I'm curious as to how else you could read the Whiterose and Washington Township stuff at this point.
This show is compelling at the moment, because you can throw any idea at the show and find evidence for it.

One reading is chaos theory; Whiterose is suggesting it was the wing flap that set it all in motion, not that she planned it from that point.
Of course, the BttF themes were not subtle, so who knows at this point.

BttF2* had a dystopian present/future by way of a monolithic corporation/figure controlling everything. This was changed by going back in time (to where he had already been) and trying to prevent the catalyst, whilst also being unable to interfere with his plot from the first film (his previous events).

What if Mr. Robot/Elliot is how one person is experiencing living the same period of time again, with a mission to change the outcome? Mr. Robot is the original Elliot on the original timeline, his actions that brought about the end of the world as we know it. Elliot is the re-tread trying to create an opposing reaction given he can't change the actions Mr. Robot took.
He may not even be the same person, but someone else interacting with the timeline in that way. This could explain why Elliot knows almost nothing about his life at the beginning of S1.

I wish I had made a note of all the power spikes & brownouts, because I have a feeling they're not literal and will come into play. If we're going on some form of timelines/chaos theory route they could mark the points where different outcomes could have emerged.
From the last episode we have Angela telling lawyer lady to not call her again right after one. She was deciding to do that at that point. Given how pivotol her investigation of the plant has become that could be key.
From the previous episode there was one as Dom was looking for the diner.

My LOLWHATIF theory is Stage 2 is revealed, and it's Wellick telling Elliot how he has gotten him a job at allsafe and has planted some code in E-Corps server.
What if the prison was this season's distraction, and we haven't noticed every event involving Elliot is a prequel to S1?

* - In the Last Episode Angela says they've come a long way from 'getting high and watching BttF2' - Elliot says they never did do that.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Blind Rasputin posted:

What was that entire "test" scene with the girl and Angela about? And the dying fish and poster? I did not see the reason for it at all.

If I understood it right (probably not!) it was a personality test because White Rose wanted to get a better sense of who Angela is, because she's a chaotic element that makes no sense in her otherwise structured plan. White Rose herself says that Angela presents as a completely normal and unimportant regular person but she keeps turning up like a bad penny somehow AND surviving when the situations she has been put in and the people she has crossed should have seen her killed or otherwise taken out of the picture long ago. So she tests her to see if she can grasp exactly what it is about Angela that seems to make her special in spite of all appearances.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Blind Rasputin posted:

What was that entire "test" scene with the girl and Angela about? And the dying fish and poster? I did not see the reason for it at all.

Unless it was like a Voit kampff test?

And this is dumb but I had a thought that it would be pretty cool if whitestar and his male self were like the male/female Lutecesse twins from Bioshock Infinite. Time travel experiment causes quantum chance to bring the male and female versions of the same person together.

They could've wanted voice samples to manipulate Elliot or Price with.

beeman
May 7, 2008

i was pretty excited to see tyrell. missed that guy.

J33uk
Oct 24, 2005

Blind Rasputin posted:

What was that entire "test" scene with the girl and Angela about? And the dying fish and poster? I did not see the reason for it at all.

Part of me wonders if WhiteRose is a bit melodramatic and likes to gently caress with people in style. Or poo poo really is about to get weird.

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Jerusalem posted:

If I understood it right (probably not!) it was a personality test because White Rose wanted to get a better sense of who Angela is, because she's a chaotic element that makes no sense in her otherwise structured plan. White Rose herself says that Angela presents as a completely normal and unimportant regular person but she keeps turning up like a bad penny somehow AND surviving when the situations she has been put in and the people she has crossed should have seen her killed or otherwise taken out of the picture long ago. So she tests her to see if she can grasp exactly what it is about Angela that seems to make her special in spite of all appearances.

That part about her surviving was interesting to me, mainly because of all the time machine talk in this thread. White rose specifically said "you should've died 90 days ago". The way she is so strict with time, I took it literally. Like, white rose is aware of the time line and Angela was actually supposed to have died 90 days ago in this time line, but she is the anomaly in the system and is still alive. White rose wants to know why, but moreso, now wants to have Angela join them instead of beat them. It was almost proof that there might be a time machine or predictability machine plot going on here.

buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012

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I think all these time travel/ replicant theories are pretty stupid but then the show is named 'mr robot' :gary: hiding in plain sight

Problematic Pigeon
Feb 28, 2011

Blind Rasputin posted:

What was that entire "test" scene with the girl and Angela about? And the dying fish and poster? I did not see the reason for it at all.

Unless it was like a Voit kampff test?

It's like a Voight-Kampff test designed by the replicants. All the questions are supposed to be answered with honest logic and an absence of emotion, and at the end a defenseless animal dies.

geeves
Sep 16, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

Out of everything great in the episode, I think my favorite part was Price going,"Beat you? Come on, you've known me for so many years you should know me better by now.... I don't care about you at all!"

That was ice cold and I wish I had someone in my life who I hated that much so I could say it to them.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

^^^
I've been waiting to use Don's "I don't think about you at all" from Mad Men for years but I just lack the people and opportunity to drop this line.



This show went for the "pretentious art film from the 80s" harder than Hannibal ever did. TBH I thought a lot of this poo poo was unnecessarily over the top, but let's see how it plays out.

Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

gOTTA gO fAST
Don't know if this means anything since it's pretty much rote dream imagery, but keys also featured heavily in Elliott's hallucination from S1 E4. Also featured: a dead fish and a creepy little girl delivering cryptic advice(could be the same one Angela met? I can't find any credit to confirm or deny it).

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

White rose to Angela, "tell me only the good things about your mother"

Shots fired.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

muscles like this? posted:

From what White Rose was saying it sounded more to me like it is going to involve some kind of elaborate ultra realistic virtual reality (which Angela might already have been in?) Creating another world that can be what you wish it to be.

I think it's a true AI

We are definitely entering si-if territory from now on and I don't have a problem with it

I don't even think that replicant theory above is too far off

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side

crowoutofcontext posted:

My poo poo theory:

Phase 2 is an attempt to transition to post-capitalist (cybersocialist?) economic/governing system based on decision support systems.

Elliot/Mr.Robot as well as Whiterose are radical moralists who have no qualms about hacking into people's personal data and destroying or altering their unethical behavior through blackmail if they are acting out of line. Obsessed with human error and accident they have misanthrope beliefs: they see individuals as easily exploitable or "corrected" if there flaws are read correctly. WhiteRose simply wants to do what pre S1 Elliot does on a grand scale. Her project does not involve time travel, alternate realities: it is based on Chile's own failed Project Cybersyn but altered to fit the global stage: a massive world economy and politics simulator synthesizing trillions and trillions of pieces of data to spew out detailed fall-out reports (alternate realities) about any given decision. Unfortunately the amount of energy this massive neural network takes is astronomical (quantum computing?) hence the brownouts. Whiterose already lives her life in strict accordance to some computer's pre-programmed timeline to achieve her goals and her curiosity about alternate realities and time travel is fulfilled by seemingly having data on these so -called realities. Her weird interest in Angela comes not from anything in her past but the fact that Angela seemingly plays a large role in her life no matter what decision she makes. Elliot's father and Angela's mother were unknowing workers on this project in its nascent phase.

That's actually kinda neat, though I can't really see Elliot wanting to pretty much give control of the world over to a computer system

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X12DY8vMpTQ

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.
There's almost certainly not going to be some kind of crazy twist. Even the biggest twists so far weren't really that shocking - doesn't Elliott question whether Mr Robot is real in the first episode? And the prison thing was kind of out of left field I guess, but not crazy shocking, and made sense after the fact. Kind of.

This is one of my favorite shows ever, but there are a few things that bother me a lot. The entire arc of elliot's life living with his mom were seemingly meaningless in the end. Plot wise, nothing actually happens, except that he kinda tries to get rid of Mr Robot.

Also, that whole thing with that character that wants him to get his website up and running...Did any of that happen? So much time was spent on it. Im fine with short hallucinations and so on, but I think that storyline spanned several episodes IIRC.

SyRauk
Jun 21, 2007

The Persian Menace

Blind Rasputin posted:

It was almost proof that there might be a time machine or predictability machine plot going on here.


I feel like Price even hints at this when he say's "This was always the future, Jack. The 5-9 attacks, it just accelerated it." I assumed he was talking about E-Corp dominating the world but after reading your post he may be worried that the original prediction about the future is no longer turning out how their company envisioned and needs to "correct" the timeline.

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Do we really have to wait an entire loving week for this poo poo.

I'm feeling a little apoplectic myself.

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.

Blind Rasputin posted:

Do we really have to wait an entire loving week for this poo poo.

I'm feeling a little apoplectic myself.

Maybe they'll leak it like they did with the premiere :f5:

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
what were the bttf references I missed

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011
music.

goddammit you guys are making some of these theories believable

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
My guess for the direction the show is going with the White Rose/Angela In the Black Lodge/etc stuff is that it'll be something like William Gibson will do. It'll be something about AIs, quantum timestreams, designer jeans. I hope it doesn't get all Matrix up in here though, virtual reality stories are hard to do. The Wachowskis only managed to do it right one and a half times.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Sam Esmail has stated that the current plan is somewhere around 4-5 seasons.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

muscles like this? posted:

Sam Esmail has stated that the current plan is somewhere around 4-5 seasons.

At that rate, I fully expect the final scene to pull something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1WJ6Ma3aiw

90s Shoes
Jan 30, 2014
Pryce's talk about "god" last ep and the now repetitious thematic mumbo-jumbo about being a god ("I was supposed to be your prophet, you were supposed to be our god" or whatever the quote was), alongside Whiterose's teasing words to Angela got me thinking a whole lot about Otherland, a sci-fi series I read when I was younger in which (from what I remember) the wealthy create ultra-realistic virtual worlds that they can control and live within after their physical bodies erode.

In general I think there's a lot floating around right now with the TIME stuff everywhere, but the primary takeaway for me is that lots of the "time" motifs have less to do with any takeaways where the end result is some form of time travel or related antics, and much more about the physicality and implied mortality of time as it exists and affects these people*, this world, etc. Thus, again, the Otherland stuff. Being able to shed your corporeal self and become a part of some neural network or global consciousness, or alive in a virtual, timeless world, etc. etc. seems as 'big' a scientific idea as any (the singularity, basically), and if this is the ultimate direction the show begins chasing (particularly if it manifests in some more physical vs virtual way) that seems really cool to me. The show is pretty definitively navigating toward some larger, quasi-spiritual idea I think, and this is the one that jumps out at me most.

*edit: in particular because the script of last ep made it a point for Angela to bring up Back to the Future II again with Elliot on the subway, so the many allusions to that movie tonight hearken back to some connection between them, to me, more than to DeLoreans and time travel

The one strange outlier is Pyrce and all of the economic shenanigans, but he seems to have been in cahoots with Whiterose for at least long enough to know about the hack and be okay with it insofar as it would ultimately reposition Ecorp and him as the economic centers of the world through their currency (which, if I understand cryptocoin enough, I believe China could still end up basically 'owning' the mining servers for? This confused me slightly and maybe could've used slightly more meat in-episode). This, however, kind of posits back to my above idea: if Pryce and the economic powerhouse shills want to assert a kind of spiritual control over the physical, capital world through dominion over the economy, he and his cronies stand as demonstrable opposition to the Whiterose/Elliott/Angela camp of non-physical singularity or what have you.

Anyway, it's been a fuckin' wild season, all things considered. There's a fuckload of stuff that's kind of just been lost in the fray and there are about 100 questions up in the air right now, but ultimately it's got me more rabid and curious than a Thing has since probably Lost, so, bring on the finale, I say.

90s Shoes fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Sep 16, 2016

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)
I feel like the grave Whiterose pissed on is going to come back into the picture in the finale. Don't ask me why, I just FEEL it.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Khablam posted:

This show is compelling at the moment, because you can throw any idea at the show and find evidence for it.

One reading is chaos theory; Whiterose is suggesting it was the wing flap that set it all in motion, not that she planned it from that point.
Of course, the BttF themes were not subtle, so who knows at this point.

BttF2* had a dystopian present/future by way of a monolithic corporation/figure controlling everything. This was changed by going back in time (to where he had already been) and trying to prevent the catalyst, whilst also being unable to interfere with his plot from the first film (his previous events).

What if Mr. Robot/Elliot is how one person is experiencing living the same period of time again, with a mission to change the outcome? Mr. Robot is the original Elliot on the original timeline, his actions that brought about the end of the world as we know it. Elliot is the re-tread trying to create an opposing reaction given he can't change the actions Mr. Robot took.
He may not even be the same person, but someone else interacting with the timeline in that way. This could explain why Elliot knows almost nothing about his life at the beginning of S1.

I wish I had made a note of all the power spikes & brownouts, because I have a feeling they're not literal and will come into play. If we're going on some form of timelines/chaos theory route they could mark the points where different outcomes could have emerged.
From the last episode we have Angela telling lawyer lady to not call her again right after one. She was deciding to do that at that point. Given how pivotol her investigation of the plant has become that could be key.
From the previous episode there was one as Dom was looking for the diner.

My LOLWHATIF theory is Stage 2 is revealed, and it's Wellick telling Elliot how he has gotten him a job at allsafe and has planted some code in E-Corps server.
What if the prison was this season's distraction, and we haven't noticed every event involving Elliot is a prequel to S1?

* - In the Last Episode Angela says they've come a long way from 'getting high and watching BttF2' - Elliot says they never did do that.

"what am i missing?" says elliot

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Blind Rasputin posted:

Do we really have to wait an entire loving week for this poo poo.

I'm feeling a little apoplectic myself.

im glad s2 existed if only for these fuckin lines that suddenly seem very topical

CloFan
Nov 6, 2004

Skizzzer posted:


goddammit you guys are making some of these theories believable

Exactly my thoughts. What's more, is I think I'm okay with the show going in those directions

Last night's episode was a bit of a mindfuck. I loved the Elliot/Mr. Robot role reversal segment, as well as Angela's :wtf: room. Disappointed in no answers, but poo poo, hasn't the show already been renewed for the next season? I guess we'll get our answers in time.

This thread is one of the best things about the show. Shine on, you crazy diamonds and keep crossposting interesting things from Reddit, feel free to take credit for them

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

Reign on me.
I don't normally notice the weird shots on this show, but when Dom was talking to her boss in the hospital her drat nose was cut off the edge of the screen!

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

i feel like they've been mining e-coin or whatever in those power plants. that's why the power's been going out.

phase 2 might be to destroy those mining rigs and throw the economy into another turmoil?

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012
RIGHT OR WRONG, I CAN’T HELP BUT EXPRESS MYSELF LIKE A BRATTY CHILD. DON’T LISTEN TO ME.
I'd laugh if phase 2 was just "hack e-corp, but with bitcoin". I'd be perfect on so many levels.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

TheBizzness posted:

I don't normally notice the weird shots on this show, but when Dom was talking to her boss in the hospital her drat nose was cut off the edge of the screen!

That framing was so weird, she was right on the left edge of the frame and there was all this negative space to the side. I have to wonder what the intention was, from memory her boss was up against the window/wall too so I'm guessing it was meant to demonstrate her crowding him with her demands?

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