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Snak posted:Well I'm not saying that it makes any real sense, but the idea is that Elliot, being a super wizard-class hacker, will be able to directly redistribute wealth in a bitcoin economy in a way that he can't a regular one. So, phase one, create a world where bitcoins are as real and legally binding as real dollars, phase two, untraceably redistribute wealth as he sees fit. Elliot lets ECorp force lobby all these laws legitimizing and validating ECoin, but Price straight up said that he will have a backdoor into every wallet created, that he will control the means of the production. If Elliot has a way to compromise this, he might have a way to completely rob ECorp of their money, and distributed it in a way whose ownership is legally enforceable, due to the very laws ECorp had passed. Here is the thing that bothers me though: Ecorp already had backdoor access to every customer account, they are a bank. I don't see how tacking on a block chain is going to give them anymore power over anything. Elliot redistributing money illegally would be just plain theft and treated accordingly by authorities. No one would be able to just keep their stolen money, without laundering it mob style. Not to mention that a currency that can be stolen from you, at will, by a single guy would have zero trust and would be abandoned almost immediately, therefore losing all its value. There is really nothing magical about currencies. Historically multiple countries have voided their entire existing money supply almost over night and replaced it with a new currency (as happened in eastern Europe multiple times during the 90s, when they recovered from hyperinflation). Money is just paper, it's abstract, symbolic, the value of that paper comes from authorities that are backing it.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:06
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Jerusalem posted:That framing was so weird, she was right on the left edge of the frame and there was all this negative space to the side. I have to wonder what the intention was, from memory her boss was up against the window/wall too so I'm guessing it was meant to demonstrate her crowding him with her demands? beeman posted:90% of this show is literally a character being framed in either bottom corners of the screen, as if to deter networks from putting in garish promotional ad overlays First of all, it does a good job of making characters seem alone, small, or vulnerable. They are talking to someone, but that someone is not on the screen, and it's like they are so close but so far away. Secondly, putting these character in in corners like this forces you to actively look at them a lot. Most shows will frame characters is easy and predictable places, so that looking back and forth between them in shot-reverse-shot is very natural. This show feels like the opposite, like my eyes have to find the character on the screen every time. And It's not just the same corners all the time. When Price is talking the senator (or whoever) in this episode, there have got to 5 different angles it cuts to, placing him in different parts of the frame. One of the centers a portrait of Teddy Roosevelt while price talks in the corner. I really like the cinematography in this show. Someone posted a little bit back about Whiterose using a super-advanced simulation to predict outcomes of things, and I really like that idea. It makes the weird interview of Angela make a lot of sense. waitwhatno posted:Elliot redistributing money illegally would be just plain theft and treated accordingly by authorities. No one would be able to just keep their stolen money, without laundering it mob style. Not to mention that a currency that can be stolen from you, at will, by a single guy would have zero trust and would be abandoned almost immediately, therefore losing all its value. I don't know a whole lot about how bitcoins work. My understand is that freshly mined coins have no transaction history until they are "spent" (undergo their first transaction) and are thus completely anonymous. So if you were able to steal someone's bitcoins after they were mined before they were used, the theft would be completely untraceable and unverifiable. I.e. ECorp couldn't even take the crime to court because ownership of the coins can't be verified in any way. Of course legally verifiable theft wouldn't work, it would be treated as such. This concept hinges on Elliot having a way to redistribute bitcoins with ECorp having no legal recourse to trace or identify the stolen funds. Which is a pretty ridiculous concept in real life, but I'm not sure it's out of line with the type of things that are happening in the show. edit: And also I'm not suggesting that Elliot would just declaire "I am stealing everyone's money as I see fit!" That's ridiculous. But if ECorp is successful in bailing out the global economy using ECoins, and the Elliot starts stealing ECoins from ECorp, it's not like ECorp is going to announce that it's happening if they realize that something is going wrong. If Elliot has a mechanism where he can make ECorp essentailly donate ECoins to people without them knowing who the money is going to and the people knowing where it came from, ECorp isn't going to want to destroy trust in the currency, they still need it. Snak fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 15:34
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What's the deal with Angela and fish? Last season during Elliot's drug haze, she was served a whole black fish at a restaurant. Now a Koi died in the same room as her. What does Sam Esmail have against Angela (or sushi)?
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Sep 16, 2016 15:38
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Shooting Blanks posted:What's the deal with Angela and fish? Last season during Elliot's drug haze, she was served a whole black fish at a restaurant. Now a Koi died in the same room as her. What does Sam Esmail have against Angela (or sushi)? Well that whole black fish was said to be Qwerty, who, due to dream logic, was much bigger than normal. Also, I think that Tyrell or Mr. Robot intentionally hired a cab driver who did not speak English.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:39
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Blind Rasputin posted:Apparently part of the very last scene at the end of next week's episode was just leaked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbObIAIR3sA
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Sep 16, 2016 15:41
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waitwhatno posted:Here is the thing that bothers me though: Ecorp already had backdoor access to every customer account, they are a bank. I don't see how tacking on a block chain is going to give them anymore power over anything. That's easy, cryptocurrencies are ridiculously easy to manipulate. All you have to do is use your total control of the blockchain to make it look like everything is normal while slowly, gradually, siphoning money away from the haves and giving it to the have nots. Hell, the plan is probably to have a completely fake blockchain where everything looks normal and then secretly replace sections of it with the one where normal people have money and E Corp doesn't. It would be hilarious if E Coin transactions were nonreversible though, because once it becomes an official currency then there would be nothing E Corp could do to stop Elliot from just taking all the money and giving it to everyone. As for the power brownouts, it's probably just mismanagement/worker apathy combined with the fact that mining rigs eat a lot of power.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:42
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The biggest twist to me wouldn't be about Time Travel/Advanced AI Algorithm, because those don't seem to make sense at all with the show. However, it would be a huge twist to me if Price actually was working with other people to redistribute wealth, as it has been alluded to previously in this thread. It would seem totally out of character, though. In the previous episode, it stuck me as really absurd that Price told Colby he was doing all of this so he would be remembered as the most powerful person in the world. It just seemed far fetched that a man who was not the head of a political group, did not preside directly over all policy, would be remembered as the most powerful person in the world. So, in a fit of absurd theorycrafting: Maybe the dude thinks that being a hero of the people will give him that. I mean, it does work in the guy's favor that he gives no fucks about ECorp, USA, really even the economy. Still, it was really out of character for Price to tell the government official he doesn't care how much the government handles Ecoin: just get it done.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:58
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Snak posted:I don't know a whole lot about how bitcoins work. My understand is that freshly mined coins have no transaction history until they are "spent" (undergo their first transaction) and are thus completely anonymous. So if you were able to steal someone's bitcoins after they were mined before they were used, the theft would be completely untraceable and unverifiable. I.e. ECorp couldn't even take the crime to court because ownership of the coins can't be verified in any way. The mining part of Bitcoin is only a temporary mechanic that is supposed to incentivize the buildup of a decentralized server infrastructure. It is slowly being phased out in favour of only charging transaction fees by the server operators. After it's phased out, no new Bitcoin can ever be created. I don't think Ecorp would even bother with the mining part, if they are building a central infrastructure. Also, these mined Bitcoin don't just create value out of nothing, they acquire it through inflation and diluting the value of every other Bitcoin. (Just like every central bank doesn't just create wealth by printing money. Inflation is ultimately a transfer mechanism.) There is no imaginable scenario where people end up with money, that wasn't taken from someone else and this someone else not noticing sooner or later. Theoretically, Ecorp could suddenly and massively devalue their currency and create a worldwide wealth distribution this way. But hyperinflation like this happened before and it does not create an utopia or a new world order. Usually the powerful people stay in power, because they physically own the means of production(companies, machines, real estate, political offices, etc.), the old hyper-inflated currency is abandonned, the economy collapses and everything goes back to normal after a while, with everyone swearing to never repeat the mistakes that lead to this.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:09
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Price isn't trying to redistribute wealth - he's simply demonstrating that he has more power than the US President, and by handing currency control over, ECorp now has that much more power (and by proxy, so does he). That said, he is taking cash from China to redeploy as this new currency, which is technologically bound and likely poorly understood. Cryptocurrencies have been a running theme, it's only natural for there to be a weakness and, of course, for Elliot to find and exploit it.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:09
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Speaking of camera work. I think the way they shot Dom's falling asleep scene was really well done. She had zero makeup on, looked truly real and exhausted, and there was something about the delivery of it all with the closeness and angle that made it undeniably lonely. It was just good.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:28
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Doctor Butts posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4 Elliot never asked for this.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:30
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I didn't read Price's scene as wanting to be remembered as the most powerful man. I took it as simply knowing himself as the most powerful man in any room that he enters. Legacy is not really part of it thus being a head of state doesn't matter.
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Sep 16, 2016 16:54
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Hand Row posted:I didn't read Price's scene as wanting to be remembered as the most powerful man. I took it as simply knowing himself as the most powerful man in any room that he enters. Legacy is not really part of it thus being a head of state doesn't matter. He specifically said that he wanted to leave a legacy the standard of which was set by God.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:11
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Ah my bad
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Sep 16, 2016 17:33
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Blind Rasputin posted:Speaking of camera work. I think the way they shot Dom's falling asleep scene was really well done. She had zero makeup on, looked truly real and exhausted, and there was something about the delivery of it all with the closeness and angle that made it undeniably lonely. It was just good. The way she was talking, and with the way she was acting, (moving her hands off to the side, looking really depressed) and the way it was framed with her head right in the middle made me worried for a minute she was just going to off herself. That was a good scene.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:50
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AwkwardKnob posted:Someone on Reddit probably would have found a relation by now before I thought of this - but the HANG IN THERE cat poster on the wall in White Rose's test room jumped out at me beyond it's visual absurdity... It seemed extremely familiar to me too, but I think I was recognizing it from some other show/movie/game or something. There was definitely another post-modern piece of entertainment that used motivational Hang In There poster in an ironic juxtaposition or something. Doctor Butts posted:The biggest twist to me wouldn't be about Time Travel/Advanced AI Algorithm, because those don't seem to make sense at all with the show. Time travel I don't want but AIs in this show? I feel like it would be a safe bet that they will show up, if not soon then in season 3/4/5. Come on, this show is so Gibson it's wearing mirrorshades precision fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 17:50
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It reminded me of the Fargo poster.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:53
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 "Copyright 1968." Hmmm. Determined or not, that cat must be long dead. That's kind of a downer.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:04
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Doakes posted:
On the optimistic side, possibly rigor mortis set in an the cat is still holding on and leaving a legacy of inspiration. (For whatever reason, this scene/episode from Simpsons was the first thing that I thought of, as well).
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Sep 16, 2016 18:19
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No one is really mentioning what I thought was the single most important line in last episode, when White Rose tells Angela "that depends on your definition of 'real'", followed by her visit to lawyer lady acting all elated and robotic and the "glitch in the matrix" brownout/TV repeat. What did he show her??? It felt more matrixy than anything else, what else could he mean by that? I half expected him to say "if real is what you can see and touch, then reality is just electrical signals interpreted by your brain" after that. I feel like the BTTF music is just Esmail loving with us after season 1.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:21
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Wachepti posted:Oh my god that would be sick. Season 1 is Fight Club please let season 3 be Neuromancer. Ok so we are on track for this.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:51
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Season 2 has been more or less a Philip K. Dick novel.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:56
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It might be something grounded in reality, but I think the last few episodes dropped a lot of hints that something really weird is going on involving that Washington plant, specially last episode. It was strange in a way it even felt kinda off for this show, like it was turning into Twin Peaks or Lost If there's nothing si-fi going on, what's can be the explanation for the Angela interview and the things Whiterose said to her? I mean, Whiterose explains the interview saying that she had to know Angela, but why all those weird questions, the game, the strange little girl, the fish, the commodore64, all that? And then all that talk about their parents dying for some greater good and then being special That's got to be a meaning for all that, and I cant think of anything not involving si-fi or some weird poo poo
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Sep 16, 2016 19:06
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Snak posted:This gimmick almost borders on obnoxious, but I think it's really effective. It has been used throughout the show, and it does a lot of things for me. There's been some good posts on this during season 1. For example, DaveKap posted:Yeah, I am constantly noticing the amazing camera work on this show. Just check out the Tyrell v Scott scene. Scott's sitting down most of the time while In addition to what DaveKap said, note that Tyrell and Scott are positioned on the same side of the frame - I made a similar post with screenshots but I can't find it anymore. Oh well. I feel that Esmail's framing is bolder in season 2 than 1 (maybe not, I should rewatch s.1) and in particular, he's been centering characters more as well as displaying them symmetrically (eg., angela and price in his boardroom in front of the huge painting, Dom in the recent episode). I also liked what was said about the 'inconspicuous man and woman' - how in Angela's scenes, it often feels like someone is watching us rather than just us watching her. In the pictures linked to Reddit, the man and woman are in background looking at Angela, who we can say is in this midground. We are in the foreground, so it looks like someone is staring at us.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:08
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^^^ I love this poo poo. It's more interesting than I thought seeing how they use character placement to almost subconsciously drive the story to the viewer.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:27
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ok so who can translate what the cabbie said
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Sep 16, 2016 20:09
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I guess I'm missing something about the Wellik-phone reveal. When Elliot traces it and the goon says to ignore anything coming from that address, doesn't the next scene take place at the house of the attendant he murdered? Pretty clear editing there so why all the confusion over the address? Although it seems clear that someone else was paying that guy to do it, the address itself is meaningless info since he is already dead. It fits perfectly with Scott Knowles paying to harass Joanna, and she ironically kills the man who could have traced it back to Scott.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:29
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One of the gifts sent to Joanna is a framed echo of her then unborn baby. How easy/difficult is it to get those for people who are not the direct mother/father of the unborn child?
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Sep 16, 2016 20:36
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Given what Joanna said about Tyrell sending gifts when he was doing something for the family, I actually do think that he's alive. I don't know who else in the world would have known about what seemed like something only those two knew about. Especially because of the echogram of the baby. That would be sort of difficult (though not really, based on what Elliot said about most hospital's IT Security.)
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Sep 16, 2016 20:48
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Max posted:Given what Joanna said about Tyrell sending gifts when he was doing something for the family, I actually do think that he's alive. I don't know who else in the world would have known about what seemed like something only those two knew about. That is exactly why I asked, where I could see someone like Elliot manage to get it through hacking, it seems very unlikely a guy like Scott Knowles would have easy access both to the information and to the echogram.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:54
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uncertainty posted:That is exactly why I asked, where I could see someone like Elliot manage to get it through hacking, it seems very unlikely a guy like Scott Knowles would have easy access both to the information and to the echogram. Through conventional ways, I imagine the answer is no, it would not be easy.
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Sep 16, 2016 21:02
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Maybe Tyrell was laundering gifts through the attendant (someone he already knew from dealing with Elliot in the SUV). The guy could have withheld that information from Joanna in order to get paid double, but it backfired when she couldn't afford his blackmail payments and called in the hit. It fits with the greed and paranoia of their family.
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Sep 16, 2016 21:04
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I've thought Tyrell's been alive this whole time and I'd be extremely disappointed if he is just another personality in Elliot's head. He's already got Mr. Robot and the audience. Mr. Robot's been lying to Elliot the entire time and covering things up, and if Tyrell was actually dead it would have been easier to just give Elliot the memories back of when Tyrell was actually killed.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:10
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Elias_Maluco posted:If there's nothing si-fi going on, what's can be the explanation for the Angela interview and the things Whiterose said to her? I mean, Whiterose explains the interview saying that she had to know Angela, but why all those weird questions, the game, the strange little girl, the fish, the commodore64, all that? And then all that talk about their parents dying for some greater good and then being special As far as the interview: The little girl was part of the test, she even said as much. The Commodore 64 was probably because it's an unhackable computer, and also it's weird nerd lore to reference old text adventures or whatever. The fish was part of the test. The weird questions were just a personality test. They were weird because weird is cool and Esmail has a boner for David Lynch. GobiasIndustries posted:I've thought Tyrell's been alive this whole time and I'd be extremely disappointed if he is just another personality in Elliot's head. He's already got Mr. Robot and the audience. Mr. Robot's been lying to Elliot the entire time and covering things up, and if Tyrell was actually dead it would have been easier to just give Elliot the memories back of when Tyrell was actually killed. What we saw is most definitely actually Tyrell. If I'm wrong about that, it's potential shark-jump territory.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:16
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Elliot makes a big deal about asking if the driver can see Tyrell, but Tyrell gets in the cab and gives him directions and he responds and starts driving, so obviously he can see someone sitting there giving him directions.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:21
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I wonder if I can download the program that they ran on the C64. If have to write a driver for a modern PC to communicate with the C64 floppy drive, but I've got everything needed to run it (except an old TV).
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Sep 16, 2016 23:24
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Feel like the taxi scene was deliberately shot to make it ambiguous as to whether it was Tyrell talking to the cab driver or Elliot, unaware that he's Tyrell, speaking to the driver. That being said, Tyrell has to be real. None of the scenes with Joanna, either Tyrell + Joanna, or Elliot + Joanna, would make sense. Also, Tyrell has had scenes with other characters who've interacted with Elliot - he has to be real.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:47
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counterfeitsaint posted:Elliot makes a big deal about asking if the driver can see Tyrell, but Tyrell gets in the cab and gives him directions and he responds and starts driving, so obviously he can see someone sitting there giving him directions. Not necessarily, Elliot sees Mr Robot do things that people react to, this could be another split and it was just Elliot in the cab the whole time. That said, I really doubt it's another split. Esmail wouldn't pull the same trick on us twice at this late stage of the season and without any build up. The more likely explanation is that Mr Robot did shoot Tyrell but didn't kill him (this way Mr Robot can claim that he wasn't lying while still hiding things), so he's been in hiding to recover and after that to work on the mysterious Phase Two.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:03
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Then why would Tyrell be meeting with Elliot if Elliot shot him?
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Sep 17, 2016 00:26
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Analytic Engine posted:I guess I'm missing something about the Wellik-phone reveal. When Elliot traces it and the goon says to ignore anything coming from that address, doesn't the next scene take place at the house of the attendant he murdered? Pretty clear editing there so why all the confusion over the address? Although it seems clear that someone else was paying that guy to do it, the address itself is meaningless info since he is already dead. It fits perfectly with Scott Knowles paying to harass Joanna, and she ironically kills the man who could have traced it back to Scott. It was the Feds and Dom breaking into Cisco's apartment, not the attendant's.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:28
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