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roadhead
Dec 25, 2001

http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/files/MerchantsOfDeception.pdf

I read this a few years ago (probably following a link from here) and found it informative.

Its everything you ever wanted to know about how MLMs actually make certain people very rich at the expense of literally everyone else.

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greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



My sister is totally into one of the pharma/health MLMs and is constantly instagramming and facebooking and generally working it. I still don't believe she makes any money, I think she just loves the attention and that she thinks people think she is making money. She got our other sister involved and the new one posted on FB last week how easy it was and she didn't even have to do that much work, leading to a smackdown from sister #1 telling everyone that it was only because she gave sis #2 her best customer: our mom.

Maw
Feb 18, 2013

Mere minutes after discovering the new technology, it was used to send me a crude ASCII dong.


roadhead posted:

http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/files/MerchantsOfDeception.pdf

I read this a few years ago (probably following a link from here) and found it informative.

Its everything you ever wanted to know about how MLMs actually make certain people very rich at the expense of literally everyone else.

This looks really interesting, thanks!

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"
Grimey Drawer
I do event production and did a national meeting for some MLM group a few months ago.

Very telling that the convention center went and added like a hundred signs explaining their "no soliciting" policy before the event started.

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

BiggerBoat posted:

Over the course of a rather long job search, I've received maybe 10 calls/emails from a company called Primerica. It's loving ridiculous. NO WHERE on my resume, in my job experience or in my skill set is there anything whatsoever to suggest I would be good at sales or slinging life insurance. I'm a freelance illustrator, graphic designer and pre-press specialist. That's all I've ever done.

I couldn't figure out why this "company" kept contacting me and red flags went up right away the first time they did because I could recognize the standard MLM pitch and buzzwords. "You'll get out of it what you put in", "Your work determines your success", etc. I've even asked the last few people who've contacted me "What exactly did you see on my resume or LinkedIn profile that would suggest I would be good at this?" They talk about "work ethic" and how "sharp" and "accomplished" I seem. Seems like bullshit.

Near as I can tell, I guess it's a MLM based insurance company, although I'm not sure how that would work. I guess you get "points" or whatever from people you recruit and if they sell a (probably worthless) policy, you get money from their sales. Google turns up the usual "war of the message board comments" that usually surrounds poo poo like Amway and Herbalife.

Anyone know about Primerica? Are the policies worthless? Is at an MLM? Anyone else get these stupid calls?

Edit: guess I could have just Wiki'd it. Yes it's bullshit. Anyone here actually try it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

Some dickhead with whom I went to college is a regional VP of loving himself or something for Primerica. Once every few years he hits me up to pitch me on being one of his reps. So far I haven't been as mean to him as I have here, but he still doesn't get that I'm not interested in his pyramid scheme bullshit for losers.

froward
Jun 2, 2014

by Azathoth

Captain Bravo posted:

Actually, in that case it's the other way around. Marine parts have to be produced to stand up to being in and around water constantly without rusting away, so they're generally made with more zinc. But it's a difference of, like, a few cents either way, so if you produce a billion marine nuts and bolts and can only sell a few million, you just repackage them as normal ones, sell them at the market rate for a normal nut and bolt, and take in a slightly smaller profit. Aircraft parts are a whole different monkey because they're built as lightweight as possible, with lots of aluminum.

this is a Bad Post and pisses me off. everything on a boat that can be, is stainless steel. it doesn't rust. Zinc does rust. Salt water will eat away at a galvanized zinc bolt (the kind you find in hardware stores) in a couple years, tops. Stainless is expensive $$. Aircraft parts are $$$$$ because they are entirely serialized. Major components (engine assemblies, wheels) are individually serialized by law, small parts (bolts rivets switches) have to be trackable to manufacturer and lot. Manufacturers usually serialize this stuff anyway so they can figure out what's failing faster than expected.

A 12v battery tray with rubber strap costs about $300 because it's serialized for aircraft. In your local auto part shop it'd be $20 tops. This is why airplanes are expensive.

Anyway back to catching up, I have six more pages.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

I skipped a couple of pages so apologies if this has been brought up previously.

Friend of mine was looking for a rental apartment last year. We're in a housing shortage, and due to various regulation rental apartments are scarce and you normally have to be on a waiting list for 10+ years to get a first hand contract. Second hand contracts are very common though. He puts out an ad on our biggest classifieds site and a few days later he gets contacted by someone offering a nice apartment, decently central, fully furnished. Seller says he's going out of the country for a few years and my friend can rent the place second hand for the duration, but he wants six months rent plus a sizable deposit up front. Paying 1-3 months rent in advance isn't uncommon, but 6 months plus a deposit raised a big red flag.

So my friend says he'll get back to the guy and goes to the pub to meet up with me and a few other friends and we dig into the information provided. Obviously, it turns out to be a scam. The apartment had been rented out as an AirBnB, and if my friend had accepted, the "seller" would have disappeared with his money and a few weeks later the actual owners would have returned from their vacation and wondered what the hell my friend was doing in their apartment.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot

drunk asian neighbor posted:

all joking aside though, I too have heard that low-level modelling carries a significant monetary entry barrier, so dude may have actually been somewhat legit. In my experience the music industry works pretty similarly; it's not uncommon for local bands to either meet a sold-tickets quota or pay-to-play at first.

Necroquoting to answer this mystery. Models have to pay for their shoots until photographers are willing to shoot them on their own dime. The musician analogy is perfect. A friend of mine plays in a moderately successful local band. When they were starting out, they had to straight up pay for every ticket to their show themselves, and then re-flip them to other people. For the better part of one year, they lost $10-20 per show because they couldn't sell enough tickets to break even. Evidently it was worth it because now promoters pay them just to book a show and make whatever percent of the total ticket sales cut.

On a more relevant note, music promoters are among the biggest "legitimate" scam artists, up there with collection agencies and pyramid schemes. Their goal is to make money for the venue, they don't give a poo poo about the band. Their job is to trick a band into playing more shows for less money and a lot of genuinely good musicians get hosed over and swear off the music industry as a result. There's an underground network of bands that post about promoters that gently caress people over on Twitter (so, not really underground) but it's up to the community at large to take out the trash. Venues don't care because they just want to get people in the door.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug
The single worst thing to be in the music world is a musician. Anybody who has performed at all can write a drat book about music world bullshit.

KaiserSchnitzel
Feb 23, 2003

Hey baby I think we Havel lot in common
Best scam of all time:

WALTER
That wasn't her toe.

DUDE
Whose toe was it, Walter?

WALTER
How the gently caress should I know? I do
know that nothing about it indicates--

DUDE
The nail polish, Walter.

WALTER
Fine, Dude. As if it's impossible
to get some nail polish, apply it to
someone else's toe--

DUDE
Someone else's--where the gently caress are
they gonna--

WALTER
You want a toe? I can get you a
toe, believe me. There are ways,
Dude. You don't wanna know about
it, believe me.

DUDE
But Walter--

WALTER
I'll get you a toe by this
afternoon--with nail polish. These
loving amateurs. They send us a
toe, we're supposed to poo poo our-
selves with fear. Jesus Christ. My
point is--

DUDE
They're gonna kill her, Walter, and
then they're gonna kill me--

WALTER
Well that's just, that's the stress
talking, Dude. So far we have what
looks to me like a series of
victimless crimes--

DUDE
What about the toe?

WALTER
FORGET ABOUT THE loving TOE!

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
My mom is the opposite of the gullible old person stereotype, but to an annoying degree. Because she got hustled several times when she was younger, she is perpetually paranoid she is getting scammed. Last year I was on vacation in Mexico I accidentally butt dialed her and she was extremely :tinfoil: about getting charged exorbitant international rates for receiving a call for two minutes. Similarly, when text messages first started to get popular she didn't have unlimited text messages and was convinced that receiving text messages would gouge her on her phone bill. She's like this with a lot of stuff.

Strangely, though at the same time she's very frugal and good at getting ultra cheap vacations via credit card perks and promotions. I would figure she'd make it a point to understand things that aren't a scam or charge or whatever but I guess she's just gotten to the point where she errs on the side of caution for many things.

Any sales pitch that is particularly long winded makes her get angry, impatient and paranoid. Drives my wife nuts because while they're both similar in being able to sniff out a scam my wife stays calm and polite while my mom tends to get really whiny and obnoxious.

duckmaster
Sep 13, 2004
Mr and Mrs Duck go and stay in a nice hotel.

One night they call room service for some condoms as things are heating up.

The guy arrives and says "do you want me to put it on your bill"

Mr Duck says "what kind of pervert do you think I am?!

QUACK QUACK

Panfilo posted:

Last year I was on vacation in Mexico I accidentally butt dialed her and she was extremely :tinfoil: about getting charged exorbitant international rates for receiving a call for two minutes.

She's obviously mistaken but not too far off - if she had been the one in Mexico she would have had to pay exorbitant rates to receive your calls.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
I've been getting a lot of "FedEx" emails saying that my parcel could not be delivered and would I please open this ZIP that has all the shipping details?

Who the gently caress falls for that poo poo?

I also got a text message telling me my CIBC bank account had suspicious activity on it, and I should go to a dubious-looking .co.uk link to "fix" it. I don't have an account with CIBC and one of the C's stands for "Canadian." How the gently caress do people fall for this garbage?

Jyrraeth
Aug 1, 2008

I love this dino
SOOOO MUCH

I got a similar one the other day for BMO.



".nut.cc" is uhh, unique.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



PT6A posted:

I've been getting a lot of "FedEx" emails saying that my parcel could not be delivered and would I please open this ZIP that has all the shipping details?

Who the gently caress falls for that poo poo?

I also got a text message telling me my CIBC bank account had suspicious activity on it, and I should go to a dubious-looking .co.uk link to "fix" it. I don't have an account with CIBC and one of the C's stands for "Canadian." How the gently caress do people fall for this garbage?

Well, in the first case, people who ship a lot of stuff with FedEx. If you spam 15 million people, some of them will fit the profile and then some of those people will have had a problem recently and open the file. Like I said earlier, it almost happened to me when spammers guessed a company I had used and my school's admin had a history of not paying invoices even after I'd submitted them two or three times. I went to open the file in a "what the gently caress is it this time" way because the scenario was just so familiar and they had actually spoofed the email address properly.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Think of it this way:

You get a list of ten million email addresses. Let's say only a tenth of those are good addresses that make it through spam filters.

You set up a bot to email them all some variation on "click here for a virus." Of the one million good addresses only one in ten thousand gets infected. That's 100 computers. Let's say that it's a locker and only one in ten of those people opt to pay you $100 to get their computer back.

Congrats you just made $1k with a single spam shotgun off a one in a million success rate.

It's all a numbers game. Put enough hooks in the water and you'll get a bite and email makes it really ficking cheap on a per attempt basis.

Sanford
Jun 30, 2007

...and rarely post!


PT6A posted:

I've been getting a lot of "FedEx" emails saying that my parcel could not be delivered and would I please open this ZIP that has all the shipping details?

Who the gently caress falls for that poo poo?

One of our highly qualified and experienced technical support team, last week. He opened an attachment called details.odt.zip and totally shagged his system to the point that it was just quicker to re-image the disks. At least now I have an answer when they ask why our dev environment is totally separate and locked down.

thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

Sanford posted:

One of our highly qualified and experienced technical support team, last week. He opened an attachment called details.odt.zip and totally shagged his system to the point that it was just quicker to re-image the disks. At least now I have an answer when they ask why our dev environment is totally separate and locked down.

Is he still working there? I mean I could understand if someone from HR or accounting did that. But if you're working in Tech Support it seems like don't open suspicious attachments should be tech support 101. And are you hiring?

Sanford
Jun 30, 2007

...and rarely post!


thrakkorzog posted:

Is he still working there? I mean I could understand if someone from HR or accounting did that. But if you're working in Tech Support it seems like don't open suspicious attachments should be tech support 101. And are you hiring?

Yeah, he's still there. Young guy, good worker, did something stupid without thinking. Recorded discussion, understanding confirmed, further incidents may result in disciplinary action, etc. We're generally pretty mellow about this kind of thing as long as there's no malice.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Cyrano4747 posted:

Think of it this way:

You get a list of ten million email addresses. Let's say only a tenth of those are good addresses that make it through spam filters.

You set up a bot to email them all some variation on "click here for a virus." Of the one million good addresses only one in ten thousand gets infected. That's 100 computers. Let's say that it's a locker and only one in ten of those people opt to pay you $100 to get their computer back.

Congrats you just made $1k with a single spam shotgun off a one in a million success rate.

It's all a numbers game. Put enough hooks in the water and you'll get a bite and email makes it really ficking cheap on a per attempt basis.

remove

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Sanford posted:

One of our highly qualified and experienced technical support team, last week. He opened an attachment called details.odt.zip and totally shagged his system to the point that it was just quicker to re-image the disks. At least now I have an answer when they ask why our dev environment is totally separate and locked down.

im the executable code that jumped out of the odt dot zip

Quote-Unquote
Oct 22, 2002



PT6A posted:

I've been getting a lot of "FedEx" emails saying that my parcel could not be delivered and would I please open this ZIP that has all the shipping details?

Who the gently caress falls for that poo poo?

My old boss, back when I was in IT

He was actually expecting a parcel from FedEx and opened the attachment, which turned out to be some ransomware demanding payment from his credit card in order to decrypt his files.

He was actually about to put his drat credit card number in when a colleague told me what was going on, so I ran over and stopped him and reminded him that all of his stuff was on network storage and was fine, and it'd take me maybe 10 minutes to reimage his machine and then he could carry on with his day instead of instantly falling victim to fraud.

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck

thrakkorzog posted:

Is he still working there? I mean I could understand if someone from HR or accounting did that. But if you're working in Tech Support it seems like don't open suspicious attachments should be tech support 101. And are you hiring?

Hang him from his toenails.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Speaking of ransomware, this is relevant.

https://www.cnet.com/news/computer-killing-usbs-are-popping-up-in-australian-mailboxes/

Don't put strange candy in your mouth, and don't put strange USB sticks in your computer.

Maw
Feb 18, 2013

Mere minutes after discovering the new technology, it was used to send me a crude ASCII dong.


Collateral Damage posted:

Speaking of ransomware, this is relevant.

https://www.cnet.com/news/computer-killing-usbs-are-popping-up-in-australian-mailboxes/

Don't put strange candy in your mouth, and don't put strange USB sticks in your computer.

What about putting strange USB sticks in my mouth though?

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Maw posted:

What about putting strange USB sticks in my mouth though?

Make sure just to take a small lick. Crypto lockers have a ferric taste while spyware comes with a tinge of sulphur

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

Maw posted:

What about putting strange USB sticks in my mouth though?

I'm afraid you are hopelessly contaminated. Please report to the nearest medical booth so your brain can be wiped and updated from your most recent backupm

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

Make sure just to take a small lick. Crypto lockers have a ferric taste while spyware comes with a tinge of sulphur

What if it tastes like hobo pee?

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

grack posted:

What if it tastes like hobo pee?

Usually indicates a trojan.

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

Usually indicates a trojan.

What if it tastes like a Trojan?

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007

Trasson posted:

What if it tastes like a Trojan?

I knew your mother could identify brands by taste, but I didn't know she taught you too.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


drat

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011

Captain Monkey posted:

I knew your mother could identify brands by taste, but I didn't know she taught you too.

:golfclap:

Josef K. Sourdust
Jul 16, 2014

"To be quite frank, Platinum sucks at making games. Vanquish was terrible and Metal Gear Rising: Revengance was so boring it put me to sleep."

Captain Monkey posted:

I knew your mother could identify brands by taste, but I didn't know she taught you too.

Nicely played, sir.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Collateral Damage posted:

Don't put strange candy in your mouth, and don't put strange USB sticks in your computer.

Wouldn't this be a really inefficient way of scamming people, since each "attempt" costs you the money necessary to buy the USB stick.

I guess it has the benefit over e-mail that if someone does pick it up they're likely to use it, so putting it on a sidewalk or something is effectively the same as e-mailing it to everyone who walks by, though there's also the chance that someone might kick it into the street/grass or something and ruin any chances of it succeeding.

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Good Hunter, what... what is this post?
I randomly started to read this thread a while back, and read about the one where people calling saying there's a problem with your taxes and you're gonna be sued or whatever if you don't pay up or give them info, and then a few days later I got a call like that. A second of panic, then I remembered and just hung up. Thanks, thread!

Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark

Ytlaya posted:

Wouldn't this be a really inefficient way of scamming people, since each "attempt" costs you the money necessary to buy the USB stick.

I guess it has the benefit over e-mail that if someone does pick it up they're likely to use it, so putting it on a sidewalk or something is effectively the same as e-mailing it to everyone who walks by, though there's also the chance that someone might kick it into the street/grass or something and ruin any chances of it succeeding.

USB sticks are cheap and it can be a good way to target a specific business. Just drop a handful in the parking lot of the company you want to gently caress up or get in their system.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Atticus_1354 posted:

USB sticks are cheap and it can be a good way to target a specific business. Just drop a handful in the parking lot of the company you want to gently caress up or get in their system.

Isn't this theorised to be how stuxnet got onto the airgapped network?

Redrum and Coke
Feb 25, 2006

wAstIng 10 bUcks ON an aVaTar iS StUpid

Atticus_1354 posted:

USB sticks are cheap and it can be a good way to target a specific business. Just drop a handful in the parking lot of the company you want to gently caress up or get in their system.

I've seen some DEFCON talks where people who get paid to test vulnerabilities do just that. Apparently the sticks are often picked up and used in the office computer.

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goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Ytlaya posted:

Wouldn't this be a really inefficient way of scamming people, since each "attempt" costs you the money necessary to buy the USB stick.

I guess it has the benefit over e-mail that if someone does pick it up they're likely to use it, so putting it on a sidewalk or something is effectively the same as e-mailing it to everyone who walks by, though there's also the chance that someone might kick it into the street/grass or something and ruin any chances of it succeeding.

This is (probably) how Stuxnet became a thing. $20 in lovely USB drives is a pretty low buy in if someone uses one to jump the air gap at a reasonably important target.

Efb but this is why superglue in the USB port is a thing.

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