|
mitochondritom posted:I have never actually got past Golgotha because I find that getting a fungal disease is the ultimate game ender for me. The worst was getting glowcrust on my right hand when my dude was a shortblade maestro with all points invested in agility. Suddenly having a club hand was just the motivation killer. I don't mind random deaths every now and again to grenades etc but the gently caress you that fungal infections bring is a frustration too far for me. Especially when the cure is such a pain in the rear end to make. I have never ever found a spray bottle. Six Day Stilt has a decent chance to spawn a sundry merchant (the sign says "Simples" iirc) which sells spray bottles. That said I agree, I stay the gently caress out of final biomes whenever I see them. The corpse eating part is really the worst, it's always been an electric snail corpse for me. Getting a finished spray bottle just to kill a snail that doesn't leave a corpse (and it weighs 400 so you can't really save one early) is crushing.
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
i really feel like the fungus shouldn't just magically prevent you from equipping a weapon, because that can be straight up worse than a lot of other things in the game. i even say this as someone who enjoys playing with blunt weapons and can technically take advantage of the blunt fungal fist
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
What's the most reliable way to acquire a desalination pellet? I got ironshank (and glotrot but that was a non-issue at that point) last game and I was fumbling all over to find one. In the end some random rear end in a top hat who cast confusion on me got me, but had I survived I'm pretty sure ironshank would have gotten me. Next time I'm going to get the cures before I throw myself into one of the chutes 
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
S.T.C.A. posted:Six Day Stilt has a decent chance to spawn a sundry merchant (the sign says "Simples" iirc) which sells spray bottles. I thought about the fungal stuff on my bike ride home from work and I think the reason I dislike it so much is that it feels like the cure for the infections requires a sort of meta-game wiki like knowledge or knowledge an advanced player has. I have played about 20 hours of Qud since buying it a month or so ago and I am really taken with the game. I feel I have an OK grasp on the mechanics but the infections just irk me such that if red rock has the fungal stuff I just restart the game, which is sad because I think some aspects of the fungal biome are really cool, like the weeps. When I first got glowcrust I had zero idea how to find the cure, I had to google it and discovered that this jungle village existed. I was immediately screwed because glowcrust meant I was essentially defenceless so I couldn't get there. Another time with glotrot I couldn't get the book of the ape guy because there was no way I could afford it. I think they present a big stumbling block and now, even though I know what to do if I get one, I will still restart the game instead of trying to cure the disease. All being said the infections are inventive, interesting and thematic, I love the concept, but the execution doesn't work for me. I should also note I am not a huge Roguelike player outside of genre classics like FTL and Minesweeper, but the theme of CoQ is what drew me in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
mitochondritom posted:I thought about the fungal stuff on my bike ride home from work and I think the reason I dislike it so much is that it feels like the cure for the infections requires a sort of meta-game wiki like knowledge or knowledge an advanced player has. I have played about 20 hours of Qud since buying it a month or so ago and I am really taken with the game. I feel I have an OK grasp on the mechanics but the infections just irk me such that if red rock has the fungal stuff I just restart the game, which is sad because I think some aspects of the fungal biome are really cool, like the weeps. When I first got glowcrust I had zero idea how to find the cure, I had to google it and discovered that this jungle village existed. I was immediately screwed because glowcrust meant I was essentially defenceless so I couldn't get there. Another time with glotrot I couldn't get the book of the ape guy because there was no way I could afford it. I think they present a big stumbling block and now, even though I know what to do if I get one, I will still restart the game instead of trying to cure the disease. All being said the infections are inventive, interesting and thematic, I love the concept, but the execution doesn't work for me. I should also note I am not a huge Roguelike player outside of genre classics like FTL and Minesweeper, but the theme of CoQ is what drew me in. Thanks for the feedback; we'll definitely consider it. Can I ask, why did you feel defenseless with glowcrust? What slot did you have it on? It has some natural AV, so it's not meant to be debilitating. Oh, I *did* just notice that the outcrop isn't growing its edible mushroom. Did the outcrop.... ever grow an edible mushroom for anyone?
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
hand of luke posted:Thanks for the feedback; we'll definitely consider it. Can I ask, why did you feel defenseless with glowcrust? What slot did you have it on? It has some natural AV, so it's not meant to be debilitating. I've never seen that happen, and I went from Red Rock to Bethseda Susa with fungal infections once.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
hand of luke posted:Thanks for the feedback; we'll definitely consider it. Can I ask, why did you feel defenseless with glowcrust? What slot did you have it on? It has some natural AV, so it's not meant to be debilitating. It was in one of my hands I think, it was a cudgel and I had gone full agility and taken the mutation which lowers strength to get more agility. I was a dodging dagger stabbing machine with a mushroom hand. I think the fungal weapon just couldn't hit anything due to my weak strength score. I have never had an edible mushroom grow? Just fickle gills, glowcrusts and glotrot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 22:29
|
|
|
mitochondritom posted:I thought about the fungal stuff on my bike ride home from work and I think the reason I dislike it so much is that it feels like the cure for the infections requires a sort of meta-game wiki like knowledge or knowledge an advanced player has. I have played about 20 hours of Qud since buying it a month or so ago and I am really taken with the game. I feel I have an OK grasp on the mechanics but the infections just irk me such that if red rock has the fungal stuff I just restart the game, which is sad because I think some aspects of the fungal biome are really cool, like the weeps. When I first got glowcrust I had zero idea how to find the cure, I had to google it and discovered that this jungle village existed. I was immediately screwed because glowcrust meant I was essentially defenceless so I couldn't get there. Another time with glotrot I couldn't get the book of the ape guy because there was no way I could afford it. I think they present a big stumbling block and now, even though I know what to do if I get one, I will still restart the game instead of trying to cure the disease. All being said the infections are inventive, interesting and thematic, I love the concept, but the execution doesn't work for me. I should also note I am not a huge Roguelike player outside of genre classics like FTL and Minesweeper, but the theme of CoQ is what drew me in. I think if infections are relatively common, cures should be relatively convenient as well. At the very least they should be pretty accessible. I need to play some more Qud but the diseases in it always felt like they took way too much effort to cure, which is certainly realistic but isn't particularly fun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
You might think of diseases / fungal infections as being analogous to cursed items in other roguelikes. They "damage" your character in a semi-permanent fashion, usually by restricting use of one of your equipment slots. In most roguelikes, the cure is to find some kind of Remove Curse item or spell and apply it to the item. Not very flavorful, but easy to balance in terms of game mechanics by controlling the frequency of both cursed items and their countermeasures. In Qud you have to make an overland journey to a specific town, buy a book, read it to learn a recipe, and assemble the recipe's components (which may or may not be easy to find), before you can finally restore your character to "normalcy". Flavorful as hell...maybe not very easily balance-able. Another thing to keep in mind is that players usually hate it when their characters are permanently damaged in some way they can't easily control. Just look at the continual griping about equipment/inventory damage in oldschool roguelikes. And that's pretty trivial stuff in comparison to locking down use of the character's hands.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 23:02
|
|
|
StrixNebulosa posted:I've never seen that happen, and I went from Red Rock to Bethseda Susa with fungal infections once. This is definitely a bug; I just found it. Will fix it in this week's patch.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
Dissenting Opinion. I like how the fungal infection works, specifically replacing say a hand with a +X cudgel, as it functions now. I like the idea that if infected a player may have to change their strategy. Not all players may like this. MJ12 posted:I think if infections are relatively common, cures should be relatively convenient as well. At the very least they should be pretty accessible. I need to play some more Qud but the diseases in it always felt like they took way too much effort to cure, which is certainly realistic but isn't particularly fun. I agree with this proposed solution however. The cure recipe and cure materials should be easier to obtain than heading to Six Day Silt. At the moment all biomes are over represented iirc because Unormal said so(?). So with more biomes, this should happen less. In addition this situation creates the niche for a new item. A fungal resistance tablet/spray/potion? Or perhaps have the vinewood (sp) mask prevent fungal changes from occuring? I could see a gas mask not preventing fungal changes if the planned mechanism of the fungal change is topical instead of inhaled.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
Helical Nightmares posted:I like the idea that if infected a player may have to change their strategy. Not all players may like this. Players who are playing the game to experience life in a weird postapocalyptic Gamma World-esque environment will probably not mind if their bodies get infected by weird poo poo. Players who are playing the game to achieve some level of system mastery will absolutely care. The problem here is that Qud, as a roguelike game, tends to attract a substantial number of the latter type of player. Their carefully-designed, every-skillpoint-allocated-in-advance gimmick build is "ruined forever!" when something like this happens. And, you know, they're not wrong. They're just playing the game in a certain way. Whether or not the devs care to cater to that mindset is up to them, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:03
|
|
|
maybe split infections into minor/major categories? Minor more common, but temporary, healing naturally over a few weeks (maybe sped up by certain consumables?). Major more rare, but character defining, requiring the usual very difficult cures. preserve the flavor and gameplay considerations without the overhead of 'oops my character rolled poorly and is ruined' (which, while not strictly true, often feels true)
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Players who are playing the game to experience life in a weird postapocalyptic Gamma World-esque environment will probably not mind if their bodies get infected by weird poo poo. Players who are playing the game to achieve some level of system mastery will absolutely care. The problem here is that Qud, as a roguelike game, tends to attract a substantial number of the latter type of player. Their carefully-designed, every-skillpoint-allocated-in-advance gimmick build is "ruined forever!" when something like this happens. Agreed on all points. Also, well articulated and good points made.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
if someone is entirely invested in something other than blunt weapons then having their hands replaced with lovely clubs that do gently caress-all for damage can basically be a death sentence, especially in a game like qud. in a game like crawl, if someone has a lovely, cursed club glued to their hands chances are all they'll have to do is wander around the rest of the floor or maybe even the next to find a remove curse scroll. that is if they don't already have a handful due to them being common as hell. qud's system of removal is alright, but only if it's not required for removing something that practically makes a character's attacks worthless.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Players who are playing the game to experience life in a weird postapocalyptic Gamma World-esque environment will probably not mind if their bodies get infected by weird poo poo. Players who are playing the game to achieve some level of system mastery will absolutely care. The problem here is that Qud, as a roguelike game, tends to attract a substantial number of the latter type of player. Their carefully-designed, every-skillpoint-allocated-in-advance gimmick build is "ruined forever!" when something like this happens. If that weird poo poo completely neuters your character by turning your weapon hand into an unusable stump, it doesn't matter if you're a powergamer or not, that's your run over right there if you can't get the cure. I don't see how that's fun for anyone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
I hear ya. There's supposed to be an element of symbiosis. The glowcrusted body part is supposed to spawn a luminous hoarshroom that you can eat (but not pick) every few hundred turns. We're fixing it in this week's patch. We're also adding a few tweaks that'll make infections a bit less unfun, including: -reducing the density of puffers in higher-tier fungal biomes -slightly reducing the cost of Corpus Choliys -guaranteeing an apothecary tent in the SE corner of the stiltgrounds Plus there's the fact that getting an infection on your weapon hand is supposed to be a bad roll: hands, feet, face, body, arm, back, and head are all possible, too. Let's try it with these tweaks and see how it plays. Ideally we'll be adding a few more infection types, too, some of which might tempt you to keep them if they infect a semi-disposable body part.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
Dumb question. I'm assuming Helping Hands cannot be colonized by fungi correct? It can be rusted though right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Helical Nightmares posted:Dumb question. I'm assuming Helping Hands cannot be colonized by fungi correct? It can be rusted though right? That should be right, but ya never know.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
Is it possible to intentionally amputate limbs? You could cure a fungal infection by chopping off the affected limb then using ubernostrum to regrow it. That seems like a  enough cure. You don't even need the ubernostrum if you've got regeneration. I guess you're out of luck if it infects your head, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 01:57
|
|
|
i'm all for the whole fungus deal and even threw out some random fungus ideas a while agoJohnny Joestar posted:i like the fungus a lot as a sort of alternate way to develop a character, honestly. i was hoping there'd be more varieties added and i kind of idly thought of a few types i thought would be neat, using the idea that fungus should sort of have tradeoffs for the bonuses it can provide (although i do kind of wish that fungus didn't eliminate the use of weapons if it's on a hand and just prevented gloves) mostly i'd just rather it stick to blocking off armor slots and the like instead of getting entirely unlucky and having hand slots locked off
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 02:06
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i'm all for the whole fungus deal and even threw out some random fungus ideas a while ago Those are great ideas. Other possibilities: 1) Fungal infection where you can shoot/regrow a spore grenade that acts as a smoke bomb 2) As above but fungal bomb that confuses or blinds temporarily non-fungal creatures. 3) Proximity defense fungal infection that issues spores upon an enemy attacking the player in melee. These fungal spores cause "asthma" or something that reduces enemy movement speed, prevents or attenuates sprinting or possibly reduces frequency of enemy actions (ie casts SLOW). I like the idea of fungal infections being involuntarily activated vs cybernetics/tech being actively activated to emphasize the differences and drive home the point that a fungus-walker is depending on symbiotic organisms. Edit: For inspiration. Bloodborne's Kos' Parasite and Dark Souls Egghead   Edit2: We're off to get infecteeed! To the Wonderful Fungus of Quds! Because, because, because, because, because! Because of the wonderful things it does! Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
Penultimatum posted:I guess you're out of luck if it infects your head, though. Haven't you heard of the Head of Vecna?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
Penultimatum posted:Is it possible to intentionally amputate limbs? You could cure a fungal infection by chopping off the affected limb then using ubernostrum to regrow it. That seems like a This actually sounds like a decent solution. Ubernostrum is rare and expensive but not too expensive, so giving an alternate method for curing fungus infections like that would be cool. hand of luke posted:I hear ya. There's supposed to be an element of symbiosis. The glowcrusted body part is supposed to spawn a luminous hoarshroom that you can eat (but not pick) every few hundred turns. We're fixing it in this week's patch. Another thought-maybe make it so that there's relatively easily available methods to keep infections in check. Antifungal pills or something, for example. I mean, then you'll still have to quest for the cure, you just won't be crippled while you have it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 04:20
|
|
|
There's also the option of adding guaranteed but hard-to-access cures. Maybe the Putus Templar have superior medical technology, but if you're not a True Man you'll have to fight through them to get it. That way even players who have never seen a desailnation pellet in their life won't feel like they've been screwed by the RNG, since there's always another option. Even though that other option will probably kill you to death.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 05:31
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:There's also the option of adding guaranteed but hard-to-access cures. Maybe the Putus Templar have superior medical technology, but if you're not a True Man you'll have to fight through them to get it. That way even players who have never seen a desailnation pellet in their life won't feel like they've been screwed by the RNG, since there's always another option. Even though that other option will probably kill you to death. This is a fing GREAT idea.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 08:33
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Players who are playing the game to experience life in a weird postapocalyptic Gamma World-esque environment will probably not mind if their bodies get infected by weird poo poo. Players who are playing the game to achieve some level of system mastery will absolutely care. The problem here is that Qud, as a roguelike game, tends to attract a substantial number of the latter type of player. Their carefully-designed, every-skillpoint-allocated-in-advance gimmick build is "ruined forever!" when something like this happens. And if I am playing the game to experience all the amazing and strange things in it, but am totally hampered by fungal infections? I find the game quite difficult but want to explore past Golgotha and one day reach the crazy space elevator but every single time I have got past the grit gate my game has been ended by either my own stupidity (fine) or fungal disaster. My agility gimmick build is basically the only way I can ensure survival past grit gate really, and that's on me as a player who has decided they want to see lots of this world and figured the stack DV build was the best way for me to do it. MJ12 posted:This actually sounds like a decent solution. Ubernostrum is rare and expensive but not too expensive, so giving an alternate method for curing fungus infections like that would be cool. Another thought-maybe make it so that there's relatively easily available methods to keep infections in check. Antifungal pills or something, for example. I mean, then you'll still have to quest for the cure, you just won't be crippled while you have it. I thought something like a rare anti-fungal drug that you can find or craft would be a good solution. But I can see why it would trivialise the infections. hand of luke posted:I hear ya. There's supposed to be an element of symbiosis. The glowcrusted body part is supposed to spawn a luminous hoarshroom that you can eat (but not pick) every few hundred turns. We're fixing it in this week's patch. Despite my years of dedication to biochemistry I can now feel like I have helped make my mark on the world!
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 09:20
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Haven't you heard of the Head of Vecna? Honestly, having a cyber-head artifact that would supposedly give you superpowers but actually just killed you would be pretty great as a reference. Hell, having cyber-limbs you could use to replace various body parts would be pretty neat too. Even if they were just functionally equivalent to regular parts it'd be a thematic way to restore function for characters who got their arm chopped off. You'd want them to be somewhat janky so they didn't displace true man cybernetics, though. Maybe have low-tier cyber-arms have a random chance of flipping out and trying to strangle you or randomly stabbing squares around you or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
Just have each low-grade cyber-prosthesis give a bit of electrical vulnerability. You could maybe dink around with EMP vulnerability too, but that would require a little more effort I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
Omega grade cyberware (shadowrun) seems very Qudlike to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
The comparison to curses made me think that fungal infections would be a lot better if they fused your weapon to your hand until you cured the infection. There would still be a downside but it's not going to completely shut down some characters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
rodbeard posted:The comparison to curses made me think that fungal infections would be a lot better if they fused your weapon to your hand until you cured the infection. There would still be a downside but it's not going to completely shut down some characters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2016 16:22
|
|
|
Man, I'm glad I got this game. After dozens of deaths I've managed to hit level 11, finish the red rock and grit gate quests, and made it to kyakukya with a big ol' pile of ammo. I'm sure I will do something dumb and die/get my first disease any time now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
Must say, after deleting my farthest save thus far to a presumable bug, I've been having infinite amount of fun with this game. Absolutely worth every penny. Will recommend to every friend with any free time! Massive thanks to UNormal and all the devs!
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 09:51
|
|
|
rodbeard posted:The comparison to curses made me think that fungal infections would be a lot better if they fused your weapon to your hand until you cured the infection. There would still be a downside but it's not going to completely shut down some characters. i like this idea a lot. it's a definite negative, but you're not entirely screwed if it happens
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 09:57
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 02:14
|
|
|
Any tips for finding Marmon? I've been scrapping with pygmy's and goatfolk all over the area north of Kyakukya for a long time. I found a chest in a ruin with a writing by him, and I've been scrambling all over the area in some hellish jungle patrol with no luck. Strangely, there is no entry for it it my quest log, but the quest giver acts as if I should be returning with word of Marmon. Edit: Found him and killed him. Looks like Golgotha is my next stop. I have a metamorphic polygel, will probably save it in case I live long enough to get a dagger upgrade. Gooch181 fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
Unormal posted:The unstable genome mutation picker is now scrollable and displays details for each mutation option. I am not sure if this is intended, but since this update when I have the unstable genome mutation I no longer appear to get my mutation point on a level up when an unstable mutation occurs. So for example in my last game I picked: Flaming Hands Unstable genome Night vision On level 2 I invested the 1 mp into Flaming hands, it was now level 2 On level 3 Unstable genome happened and I picked domination, I did not receive a Mutation Point with the level up On levels 4 and 5 I got the skill points and attribute point but no mutation points anymore, despite the level up box telling me I received them. Unstable genome didn't happen with either of these level ups Edit: I have tried this out a few times now and I think I have confirmed that when unstable genome happens, you no longer get MP points awarded on subsequent level ups. mitochondritom fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Sep 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 14:39
|
|
|
Welp, I found out temporal fugue plus space-time vortex is an interesting way to gently caress yourself. Will the yempuris phi keep growing forever?
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Players who are playing the game to experience life in a weird postapocalyptic Gamma World-esque environment will probably not mind if their bodies get infected by weird poo poo. Players who are playing the game to achieve some level of system mastery will absolutely care. The problem here is that Qud, as a roguelike game, tends to attract a substantial number of the latter type of player. Their carefully-designed, every-skillpoint-allocated-in-advance gimmick build is "ruined forever!" when something like this happens. Every type of player playing a melee build is majorly hosed if they lose their primary weapon slot. Or the power of shortblades being based entirely around the offhand and then losing your offhand slot. It's not about perfect theory crafting or whatever, I'd just rather start a new run then trawl through ruins for possibly hours for a specific rare drop to make my character useable again. The glot rot cure is weird and flavorful and the ingredients are actually pretty common so it's a fun diversion to get in the one in one hundred runs I contract glot rot. Mindlessly searching through ruin levels for an item I usually see maybe one of in a completed run doesn't interest me at all when I can be Bethesda Susa ready in two or three hours from a fresh start. Since Ironshank also takes a desalination pellet to cure I'll take this opportunity to restate how loving awful ironshank is as a mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 23:14
|
|