Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

mcketten posted:

I want to explain one of the many reasons why Evocati stuff is not supposed to be public knowledge.

Think back to some of the CIG Devs who used to talk a lot in here or on Twitter, in RSI Chat, on Twitch streams, etc., but have stopped. Someone like Matt Sherman would say, "I've been looking at doing X for this." An hour later it is "Matt Sherman says next patch the Super Hornet is getting nerfed!" Followed by hundreds of replies why he is literally Hitler and hundreds more about why God himself was reborn within Matt's humble body. Weeks later, the patch is released, and the changes aren't there. "Why not?!?" scream the angry masses. "Because it didn't work. Because it was just a theory. Because, when we discussed it and tried it, we decided there were better options." "YOU LIED TO US!"

Now, think back to EVERY Evocati leak that has come out. Something, usually several things, was different between that leak and the final release. Why? Because Evocati exists to provide a wider test platform for some of those things they aren't sure about.

Now there are people angry and happy about flight mechanics that nobody has even been able to test yet. Flight mechanics that are guaranteed to change.

Why are they guaranteed to change? Because these pre-PTU and PTU cycles are such fluid testing beds that they can drastically change from patch to patch. Some things added, some things subtracted, some things scrapped altogether.

That's iterative development. That's game development. That's ANY creative process. As you move along things are added and subtracted. There's a reason why an author doesn't release his first draft. There's a reason why the studio doesn't show every deleted scene on the DVD extra. And there's a reason why game developers don't let players play every build of the game.

Evocati serves a great purpose: to provide a wider test-bed for things that may or may not work. But leaks (real or fake) threaten it - and thus threaten the speed and accuracy of development altogether.

If you share this poo poo, confirmed as real or not, you are actively trying to hamper the development of Star Citizen. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53qp8i/upcoming_avocado_26_testing_information/d7vn9mj

mcketten posted:

Full disclosure: I am a member of the Evocati. I also like to think that I helped create it, as I was part of a group of several "super testers" or whatever you want to call us, people who put literally thousands of hours in Star Citizen testing, bug reporting, and direct communication with the developers. People who advocated for a better bug testing system and feedback system and a way for those who really understood the ins and outs of the Star Citizen design process to interact with those designing the game.

I did not expect, nor want, an NDA associated with that.

However, the reality of Evocati is more than I expected. Without going into specific detail, Evocati serves as more than just a pre-PTU "larger" bug testing platform. We provide initial feedback to changes - and it is a myriad of opinions, don't worry, it isn't an echo chamber by any means. We help nail down bugs you guys don't even know existed because we got them before it made it to the PTU. And, very important, we are there to test the things CIG isn't ready to show, or isn't sure would work.

That last part is very important to why the NDA exists. One, if everyone saw/knew about some of the bugs, especially blockers, that exist in a pre-patch state then youtube, Twitter, Reddit, and even the tabloids that call themselves gaming journalism would be all over stories of how "Will Star Citizen even work? Latest internal builds give us the answer!; Are the Star Citizen devs in over their heads? Click now to read on...; How broken is Star Citizen? New insider information here!" And without greater context, people would believe it. Look at the damage Derek Smart did. If you don't think he did any damage then you've been living in a bubble. Up until the 3.0 reveal the general consensus outside of the Star Citizen community was that the game was a scam, nothing had been delivered yet, and all they did was sell pictures of ships that couldn't even fly. That all came directly from Derek Smart. We don't need to give him more ammunition. And that campaign of lies directly hurt development as backers who don't follow the development as intimately as we do demanded refunds.

Those refunds don't just cost CIG the value of the pledge: there is also the man hours of paying someone to deal with the CS requests, process those requests, bank fees, etc. Chargebacks, which people did due to Derek's campaign of jealous bullshit, can cost the merchant exorbitant fees.

So yes, misinformation and half-truths can hurt CIG.

When it comes to the actual work we do the Evocati provide an essential service that would hamper development if CIG decides to discontinue the project. "They won't discontinue the project because leaks happen on /r/starcitizen," you say, "after all, those leaks would go somewhere else." The latter part of that statement is correct. But by allowing the leaked information to be available on this subreddit you are also offering tacit approval of the breach of NDA, not to mention giving the leak its biggest possible audience. It is taking the molehill and making it into a mountain.

What kind of work, you ask? For example: 2.4 was three or so weeks of intense testing. Testing that required multiple patches per day. Testing that required intense focus directed by QA and other developers. Literally hundreds of testers were laser-focused on specific issues, following step-by-step instructions en masse, to nail down the causes. And it still required WEEKS of testing to get the blockers that prevented 2.4 from going to the rest of you. Without Evocati, that process would have been much longer. There is no arguing otherwise. Simply put, CIG does not have the manpower internally to do these kind of mass focus tests. And some of those blockers, game-breaking bugs that would have held up playing 2.4 for the rest of players for possibly weeks, had it been released to the wild, don't even show up on internal testing but required the assets of players from around the world to find them. Meaning, had they not been discovered in Evocati, they would have shown up in PTU, where the patch could have languished in PTU hell for months (has everyone forgotten the horror that was the 2.0 PTU?!?). Meanwhile, the rest of the world laughs at how broken Star Citizen is. People demand refunds. CIG gets bad press, backers get disheartened, and the developers get a kick in the balls on their morale.

All of this is threatened by these leaks. There are certainly people higher up than Will and the QA team who are not comfortable with the Evocati having access to such raw and unpolished builds. From developers to the producers, they have legitimate reasons for this. Many of which boil down to: no artist wants his rough draft out there in the wild because the average person isn't smart enough to understand a rough draft will get polished and is not a true reflection of the skill or dedication of the author.

So, in short, /r/starcitizen cannot prevent the leaks. But the subreddit can choose to either endorse them, and thus actively endorse damaging the development process and slow down the patch schedule, or it can choose to respect the desires of CIG by respecting the NDA and the vast majority of the Evocati who silently put thousands of hours into testing the game and finding bugs, with no reward save a "Thank you!" from the Devs.

Option 1 is the only option. Option 2 is just a slippery slope, and Option 3 is risking retardation of the development process in multiple forms.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53wrwo/meta_the_evocati_nda_breaches_and_rstarcitizen/d7x4d05

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:00

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:55

Vax: Dec 29, 2011; delicious!

AP posted:

TALI IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE

1 Fly Tali from grim hex to Port Olisar
2 Quantom jump to no destination after being shot by crusader police.
3 wait 5 seconds and exit pilot seat

ACTUAL RESULT
when you exit the Pilots seat the tali will now be back at Grim Hex. You can exit the ship and walk around. then you can enter the ship again get in the pilot seat and fly the ship again as if it was in space.

EXPECTED RESULT
Once you leave the pilot seat the Tali is transported instantly back to Grim hex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Ekm5RaPe8

$124.000.000,00

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:03

simplefish: Mar 28, 2011; So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ gallbladdΣrs!

There is a loving crowd psychology phd to be had out of this thread

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:05

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Mirificus posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53qp8i/upcoming_avocado_26_testing_information/d7vn9mj

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53wrwo/meta_the_evocati_nda_breaches_and_rstarcitizen/d7x4d05

Star Citizen: Risking Retardation

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:08

Tank Boy Ken: Aug 24, 2012; J4G for life; Fallen Rib

simplefish posted:

There is a loving crowd psychology phd to be had out of this thread

Only one?

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:10

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

Mirificus posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53qp8i/upcoming_avocado_26_testing_information/d7vn9mj

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53wrwo/meta_the_evocati_nda_breaches_and_rstarcitizen/d7x4d05

holy loving poo poo that cannot be normal lmao

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:10

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

wtfosaurus hates the loving game and he's paid to like it. how long until one of those loving idiots look at the prospect of another 80 hour unpaid work week on that broken shitheap and instead starts typing in the new thread box of starcitizenrefunds

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:12

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Thirsty Dog posted:

Thread titles are serious loving business pal

A bad thread title is definitely not a joke and I had no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for posters to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the OP than on the shitposter. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a boring, whiny sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and eventually the title will change for the better. Some many years ago, long before I started posting in this thread, I made a thread and selected a bad title. Now, this thread was terrible to begin with and doomed to fail regardless, so that the bad thread title was the straw that broke the camel's back came as no surprise. It was an OP none of us wanted in the first place, so the event didn't affect me nearly as much as it would, say, a long running thread of hundreds of pages and several good titles.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:21

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

i'd have just said shut the gently caress up you weird little bitch stop discovering new ways to make this thread suck

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:30

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

Ghostlight posted:

A bad thread title is definitely not a joke and I had no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for posters to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the OP than on the shitposter. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a boring, whiny sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and eventually the title will change for the better. Some many years ago, long before I started posting in this thread, I made a thread and selected a bad title. Now, this thread was terrible to begin with and doomed to fail regardless, so that the bad thread title was the straw that broke the camel's back came as no surprise. It was an OP none of us wanted in the first place, so the event didn't affect me nearly as much as it would, say, a long running thread of hundreds of pages and several good titles.

nice meltdown

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:36

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

If Derek tweets a leak, will /r/ds archive the leak?

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:37

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

Marching Powder posted:

i'd have just said shut the gently caress up you weird little bitch stop discovering new ways to make this thread suck

You do make it feel a bit like reinventing the wheel.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 12:38

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

janssendalt posted:

guys stop
this game is coming out
and it's gonna be the best

I for one believe this person. pledging $20,000 now.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:13

Michaellaneous: Oct 30, 2013

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:17

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Without the super secret ninja testing squad, Star Citizen patches might become horribly broken messes. Don't let Derek Smart and the salty asshats make that happen. Fight back! Loose lips sink jpgs!

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:18

Blunderstorm: Mar 1, 2016; my grandfather just posts and all i got was this lousy joke, so what

I've been saying "Your mom's a stretch goal" should be the title for like a year jfc

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:37

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

A Neurotic Jew posted:

This will probably be a bit of a leap for this thread, but looking through that Evocati leak thread I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the star citizen community is full of insanely dumb retards.

This is good for Star Citizen :smuggo:

...wait

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:39

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

Imagine being so emotionally invested in a "game" that you spend literally thousands of hours of your time performing joyless QA testing on it for years.

Entirely unpaid.

Goddamn, shitizens are loving retarded losers.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:41

Tank Boy Ken: Aug 24, 2012; J4G for life; Fallen Rib

Turd Burglar posted:

I've been saying "Your mom's a stretch goal" should be the title for like a year jfc

I think in this day and age (and place), it would be better to have: "Your dad's a stretch goal."

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:41

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Sankis posted:

Are NDAs that are just glorified TOS anymore of a "legally binding agreement" than said terms of service agreements?

I remember back in the day when there was a new MMO beta coming out every other week I'd signed up for some that had actual NDAs that required me to sign something and send it back. Though I don't think i ever did because I was like fifteen and that sounded like a bad idea to just play some lovely mmo beta for a month

An NDA is, for gaming, more of a media flow control system. It's a lot more personal than a ToS because you actually receive it and sign it personally. So it feels like they will actually uphold it if they want to, as opposed to a check box ToS that is very impersonal.

In reality, a game NDA is basically a joke. Where NDAs really come into play is in the business world, where you may be privy to critical corporate information or technology that, if it got out, could seriously hurt your bottom line if some upstart got the jump on you to market because of a leak.

"poo poo gameplay" in a game is not really worth an NDA. But since a lot of companies in gaming are making poo poo games, can't be arsed to host their own legitimate QA teams, they use the free-pool of backers and early access people to not only do their dirty work, but also iron grip them to not discuss it. The NDA gamers are basically an employee who works for free.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:46

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

The Titanic posted:

The NDA gamers are basically an employee who ~~works for free~~ pays to work.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:50

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

D1E posted:

Imagine being so emotionally invested in a "game" that you spend literally thousands of hours of your time performing joyless QA testing on it for years.

Entirely unpaid.

Goddamn, shitizens are loving retarded losers.

thousands of sessions maybe, thousands of hours is simply not possible

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:53

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

thousands of sessions maybe, thousands of hours is simply not possible

LOL wanna bet? I guarantee you can find some MoMA out there with > 1,000 hours of QA testing playtime in SC.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 13:55

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

D1E posted:

Imagine being so emotionally invested in a "game" that you spend literally thousands of hours of your time performing joyless QA testing on it for years.

Entirely unpaid.

Goddamn, shitizens are loving retarded losers.

It's not joyless. It's the best game ever, and has already been more fun than any AAA game ever released, and ever will be. Those thousands of hours were the best times of my entire life, and I thank Christ before every meal. I've already re-written my Will passing on my estate (read: trailer & stored junk) to CIG/RSI/F42/TwinBros/RisingStarPictures/etc, ensuring SC's continued development long after I've died from muscle-fatigue. Checkmate, filthy leaver goon.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:01

A large farva: Sep 5, 2006; Ramrod XTreme

The bond posts alone provide a suitable of slightly overdone backlog of thread titles for a couple month

Star Citizen: On his majesties' secret server

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:12

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

thousands of sessions maybe, thousands of hours is simply not possible

1000 hours is 25 work weeks. It is not too much different from a full time job. One less QA tester is saving CIG tens of thousands of dollars. This citizen is a true hero.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:15

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

MeLKoR posted:

L-O-L, how old are you?

Probably in the upper age level of the forums, unfortunately.

I could ask you the same, since you believe lying doesn't weigh you down.

Now of course there are genuine crazy people out there who can do it. I should have taken the mentally ill into perspective. There's always a person for some subset of crazy.

But for your average person, eventually you'll feel the weight. It's inevitable. It might take until your death bed, though. But you'll hurt eventually.

A good thing to keep in mind is the atmosphere Chris Roberts is in, the people he's chosen to surround himself with, and his history.

- Used car salesman. Sorry, this counts against you as a "understanding guy"
- Married to a woman who is proven time and time again that honesty is for the lesser people
- Ortwin
- Money
- Drugs
- Seemingly unlimited freedom and vacations
- Rabidly loyal "fans"

Figure each one of these is a limb in a tree. Each limb would have to break off before Chris can feel that human emotion known as grief for his actions.

And of course, he may be beyond capable of getting there; ever even.

I'll concede to your point of my ignorance. :shobon:

I should not have said that, there are always exceptions and circumstances that prevent some basic humanity from taking place. These guys may be some of those people!

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:16

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Tank Boy Ken posted:

I think in this day and age (and place), it would be better to have: "Your dad's a stretch goal."

Very gender specific there, with your heteronormative agenda.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:17

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

The Titanic posted:

Probably in the upper age level of the forums, unfortunately.

I could ask you the same, since you believe lying doesn't weigh you down.

I'm an old aswell, that's why your naivete astounded me. I've been around enough assholes that lie and lie even when they have nothing to gain from it. Throw money into this mix and you're incredulous someone could lie without feeling an ounce of remorse? poo poo, I've known people that could beat someone up and be laughing and playing like nothing had happened 2 minutes later.

quote:

Now of course there are genuine crazy people out there who can do it. I should have taken the mentally ill into perspective. There's always a person for some subset of crazy.

They're not crazy, they're assholes and there are plenty more of them around than you seem to think.

quote:

But for your average person, eventually you'll feel the weight. It's inevitable. It might take until your death bed, though. But you'll hurt eventually.

Con men aren't your average person, they're predators, they think only of themselves and don't give a rat's rear end about anyone else.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:46

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

MeLKoR posted:

Con men aren't your average person, they're predators, they think only of themselves and don't give a rat's rear end about anyone else.

There's a member of my family that's a bit of a black sheep, he's currently wanted in connection to some securities fraud over shares that he wasn't authorised to sell. He's always had schemes; defense procurement in the Middle-East, Hydroponics, getting into the oil industry...but he's burned everyone he knows. Including his kids.

In his case, he's one score away from being able to be legit. There's an addiction to it, almost.

And now we have 2016, where it seems everyone has discovered grifting and the old PT Barnum saw.

edit: vvv Most transparent development process ever.

Hav fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Sep 22, 2016

# ? Sep 22, 2016 14:57

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:01

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013

Mirificus posted:

If there's one thing that makes me not feel bad for these loving idiots being scammed, it's how peppy they all are. I hope they all continue to refuse refund advice.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:06

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

loving sycophants

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:12

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

If there's one thing that makes me not feel bad for these loving idiots being scammed, it's how peppy they all are. I hope they all continue to refuse refund advice.

They're genuinely proud to be retarded.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:16

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:25

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

MeLKoR posted:

I'm an old aswell, that's why your naivete astounded me. I've been around enough assholes that lie and lie even when they have nothing to gain from it. Throw money into this mix and you're incredulous someone could lie without feeling an ounce of remorse? poo poo, I've known people that could beat someone up and be laughing and playing like nothing had happened 2 minutes later.

They're not crazy, they're assholes and there are plenty more of them around than you seem to think.

Con men aren't your average person, they're predators, they think only of themselves and don't give a rat's rear end about anyone else.

You're 100% correct.

I should have worded it better. I always hope for the best in people, but reality is harsh.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:30

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

"Please make this game a sausage fest, I want to be fully immersed in dicks!"

Now here is something you don't read everyday.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:31

his nibs: Feb 27, 2016; Welcome to the
Dream Factory; Grimey Drawer

Derek can we have a !competition or at least a !raffle for a new thread title tia

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:36

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

Marching Powder posted:

i'd have just said shut the gently caress up you weird little bitch stop discovering new ways to make this thread suck

Grats on finding the apostrophe key! Shame you still can't find Shift, Comma, Full Stop, etc.

Also, aggression is a sign of Dementia, which also has the symptoms of forgetfulness, confusion, repetition, inability to learn and incoherence. I recommend you get that checked out.

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:36

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:55

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

I responded to the dummys angry about that amazon image having a freelancer in it with the whole ryan archer art theft thing. As expected it's cool for CIG to steal art. It's very common.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/53uj01/found_a_wild_freelancer_on_amazon/d7xg8kx

# ? Sep 22, 2016 15:40

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