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The Vorlons do work with the Minbari a little but yeah, I don't think they really care. Kosh went native and did genuinely care about the younger races, so it colors our perception.
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Sep 27, 2016 14:50
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What's the spoiler policy? Talking about the Vorlons would necessitate some big reveals. I'm thinking about throwing it in spoiler text because we've got some first timers going through, don't we?
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Sep 27, 2016 14:56
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I'd say use tags, there's at least a couple people reading who are watching it for the first time.
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Sep 27, 2016 14:59
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I'm just finishing up S2 right now, and I can tell there are plenty of things to find out about the Vorlons coming up, but the mystery is nice.
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Sep 27, 2016 15:18
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Yeah I don't think saying there's more to the Vorlons than meets the eye is much of a spoiler. In general I don't think B5 is as reliant on surprise, there are a lot of points where they flat out tell you how things will turn out and the story is about the process of it, but there are some really good surprises. Especially with the Vorlons.
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Sep 27, 2016 15:20
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Grand Fromage posted:The Vorlons are really sinister if you are paying attention and not distracted by Real Kosh being cool. They did a good job with that and that there was nothing you could do with them. Vorlons killed somebody and you're pissed off. Vorlons don't give a gently caress and what are you going to do about it? That's what I thought. Haha Earthforce calls Sinclair out on it in Eyes and he's like 'yup'. It ties together so well.
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Sep 27, 2016 16:32
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The Walker Smith half of the TKO episode is fantastic. You've forgotten that wandering-outsider-combatant was a major category of film back then. B5 was artistically obligated to show deference to the genre. They did a great job, the space 90's costumes were great. Its also the Zima episode. Doubley so in the sense that its an acquired taste no lost to most audiences.
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Sep 27, 2016 16:40
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Oh there's a thread for this. With Hastings going out of business, I managed to grab seasons one and two for about $10 each about a week ago and pushed myself through two to three episodes a night. I skipped a few that didn't grab my interest and overall season 1 is a bit... boring. The dialogue's pretty stilted and the acting can be pretty cheesy. I'm still gonna give season two a shot (maybe even later tonight), but I don't think I'm really won over yet. So far though, my favorite episodes are the one with Morden. What a fun creepazoid and that whole "What do you want?" questioning of everyone is an amazing tool to understand the characters and move the plot along. Its kind of weird that they were so open about what they want (Delenn aside) but its easy enough to brush over. Edit: Oh, and does Walter Koenig come back as the Psi Corp guy because he's phenomenal.
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Sep 28, 2016 00:00
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nerdman42 posted:So far though, my favorite episodes are the one with Morden. What a fun creepazoid and that whole "What do you want?" questioning of everyone is an amazing tool to understand the characters and move the plot along. Its kind of weird that they were so open about what they want (Delenn aside) but its easy enough to brush over. Oh yes, you are going to see both of them around. About Koenig's perfomance, it can't be stated enough how good it is, I remember reading an interview where he said Bester was his favourite role on TV and he had a ton of fun with the character.
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Sep 28, 2016 00:08
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nerdman42 posted:Edit: Oh, and does Walter Koenig come back as the Psi Corp guy because he's phenomenal. Yes! Several times! Each one is amazing. Season 2 is where things go from okay to amazing. Mr. Morden's fate (no spoilers) is the ultimate moment for me in the entire show.
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Sep 28, 2016 00:10
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nerdman42 posted:Oh there's a thread for this. S2 really does kick it up from  to fairly constant  .Londo's arc (and G'Kar's) are the most incredible tranwreck. S1 sets them up as these harmless bickering fops, and then holy poo poo what did they railroad themselves into.
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Sep 28, 2016 00:27
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S1 doesn't actually have a lot of G'kar or Londo come to think of it. G'kar is only in 11 episodes and Londo in 14. Season 2 gives them vastly more time on screen.
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Sep 28, 2016 00:37
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I think Londo and G'Kar are pretty close to being my favorite tragic TV figures. Neither one of them is inherently bad, but it's also totally impossible to imagine their story playing out any differently than it does. Their whole arc is just really well written and both of them feel like fully realized characters.
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Sep 28, 2016 01:22
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Party Plane Jones posted:S1 doesn't actually have a lot of G'kar or Londo come to think of it. G'kar is only in 11 episodes and Londo in 14. Season 2 gives them vastly more time on screen. G'Kar is also basically a mustache twirling villain in season 1.
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Sep 28, 2016 02:04
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Yeah, I just advanced a couple episodes into season 2 but the quality feels much higher. G'Kar and Londo already had this depth under the surface but it seems so much more apparent that their rivalry is going to get people hurt. "I hear sounds, the sounds of billions of people calling your name." "My followers?" "Your victims." It's such a good line. Also I think I like Sheridan much more than Sinclair. He's got a lot of charm to him and he's not just Sinclair 2.0. He's his own character and they've given him some likable traits and complexities.
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Sep 28, 2016 03:08
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I think somewhere around the first quarter of S2 is when everything finally gels and it really starts rocketing up quickly. If you'll pardon the mixed metaphors.
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Sep 28, 2016 03:26
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Hahaha yeah I don't know if Jack quite works for me. Couldn't they have done without that on-the-nose epilogue? Whole thing felt unnecessary and detracted from the impact and mystery of the rest of the episode, and it's not like it was even important to explain the reference they were making.
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Sep 28, 2016 03:49
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Data Graham posted:Hahaha yeah I don't know if Jack quite works for me. Couldn't they have done without that on-the-nose epilogue? Whole thing felt unnecessary and detracted from the impact and mystery of the rest of the episode, and it's not like it was even important to explain the reference they were making. It's a quirky classic sci-fi thing, really, but also lays seeds for the fact that the Vorlons aren't on the level. Deathwalker illustrates their approach towards politics (gently caress you, that's why) but Inquisitor illustrates that they care more about the end result than petty things like morals or justice. Also, keep an eye out for that actor - Wayne Alexander - he shows up a lot.
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Sep 28, 2016 03:58
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I'm also appreciating John Vickery's many roles. I had previously only known him as Scar in The Lion King on Broadway. Pfffff peace in our time, could he at least have quoted it right
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Sep 28, 2016 04:21
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It also alludes to the Vorlon's messing around with humans long before first political contact. This comes up later too. (no they didn't probe the guy from the first season those were other aliens!)
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Sep 28, 2016 06:05
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Data Graham posted:I'm also appreciating John Vickery's many roles. I had previously only known him as Scar in The Lion King on Broadway. As I rewatched the show a number of months ago, it blew my mind when I realized that he played Neroon and Welles, the guy from Nightwatch (while giving me an odd Paul Ryan vibe).
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Sep 29, 2016 02:05
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Heh, there's that infamous elevator scene that I'd seen once out of context. Niiiiiice. Also, "Netter Syndrome". They keep doing that
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Sep 29, 2016 13:11
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mojo1701a posted:As I rewatched the show a number of months ago, it blew my mind when I realized that he played Neroon and Welles, the guy from Nightwatch (while giving me an odd Paul Ryan vibe). He always made me think of a poor man's Colin Firth.
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Sep 29, 2016 13:27
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Milky Moor posted:He always made me think of a poor man's Colin Firth. it's the dark hair with a widow's peak coupled with the faux-concern hiding a more sinister goal in mind that did it for me.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:43
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Finally got up to the point where Katsulas and the guy who was runner up to getting his role (W. Morgan Sheppard) meet each other on the show. It's strange to think that the guy who played the Soul Hunter in the second episode could have been G'Kar.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:10
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Milky Moor posted:It's a quirky classic sci-fi thing, really, but also lays seeds for the fact that the Vorlons aren't on the level. Deathwalker illustrates their approach towards politics (gently caress you, that's why) but Inquisitor illustrates that they care more about the end result than petty things like morals or justice. I've just watched this episode again and is it me or is Alexander totally channelling Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes? Maybe it's just the eyebrows. .jpg)
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Sep 29, 2016 22:32
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Wayne Alexander is basically B5's version of Jeffrey Combs.
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Sep 29, 2016 22:49
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"Passing Through Gethsemane": boy you guys weren't kidding about this dude being conflicted. Not just about religion, but I'm pretty sure that comes across as a pro-death-penalty stance to boot. And then woo, here we go with the political intrigue. Plus "you're about to go where every man has gone before" 
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Sep 30, 2016 13:39
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Data Graham posted:"Passing Through Gethsemane": boy you guys weren't kidding about this dude being conflicted. Not just about religion, but I'm pretty sure that comes across as a pro-death-penalty stance to boot. I disagree that it's pro-death penalty, it's about forgiveness. Although Garibaldi is explicitly pro-death penalty, but he's a right wing loon (as Jerry Doyle was)
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Sep 30, 2016 14:16
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Heh, "Exogenesis"--its like The Inner Light meets Wrath of Khan and attaches itself to the spine of a Trill. Lol at that awkward romance setup at the end though 
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Sep 30, 2016 14:31
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And now we're under Martian law! :captmurphy: Majel Barrett
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Oct 3, 2016 18:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I disagree that it's pro-death penalty, it's about forgiveness. Although Garibaldi is explicitly pro-death penalty, but he's a right wing loon (as Jerry Doyle was) It's 100% about forgiveness. The "death of personality" is a really complex philosophical question but the entire end of the episode between the new monk, the head monk, and Sheridan spells it out explicitly.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:34
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pentyne posted:It's 100% about forgiveness. The "death of personality" is a really complex philosophical question but the entire end of the episode between the new monk, the head monk, and Sheridan spells it out explicitly. Yeah, that's true. I had in mind more like the atmospheric bits throughout the episode, like how Garibaldi got the last word with his "not everybody ends up blind and toothless, only the bad guys" thing; and how much weight and sympathy was given to the victims' families and their grievance for having been "cheated" of justice.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:45
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It's funny how you can tell what movies were in the public consciousness at the time. "Sic Transit Vir": ah hah, someone just saw Schindler's List
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Oct 5, 2016 02:06
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Data Graham posted:Yeah, that's true. I had in mind more like the atmospheric bits throughout the episode, like how Garibaldi got the last word with his "not everybody ends up blind and toothless, only the bad guys" thing; and how much weight and sympathy was given to the victims' families and their grievance for having been "cheated" of justice. I'm not sure if I'd really agree with seeing Garibaldi as a mouthpiece for the writers here. He's pretty consistently written with a bit of a hard nosed conservative lean, so I'd say this is more just Garibaldi being Garibaldi. At most he's just being used as a convenient way to offer an opposing viewpoint.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:44
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Paradoxish posted:I'm not sure if I'd really agree with seeing Garibaldi as a mouthpiece for the writers here. He's pretty consistently written with a bit of a hard nosed conservative lean, so I'd say this is more just Garibaldi being Garibaldi. At most he's just being used as a convenient way to offer an opposing viewpoint. JMS has made it clear in the past that a lot of what Garibaldi says was taken from Doyle's beliefs and that he and Doyle disagreed on almost everything. In particular, the electric bleachers from the Gethsemane episodes has been directly confirmed as a quote from Doyle that JMS wrote in. I really like the dilemma presented in the episode. I don't know if I'd think death of personality is justice, even if I can think through why it should be - there's still some part of me that sees the flesh as the person.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:04
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It definitely leaves it open for further discussion by the audience, rather than the didactic Trek style of bringing up a moral point just to take a stand on it. And different people in the main cast have different opinions, which is also refreshing.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:19
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Data Graham posted:It definitely leaves it open for further discussion by the audience, rather than the didactic Trek style of bringing up a moral point just to take a stand on it. And different people in the main cast have different opinions, which is also refreshing. I'm also pretty sure the cast have opinions which change in the same episode. Sheridan seems fine with it as a form of justice, but the glare he gives the murderer at the end shows that it's a bit more than just clinging to an ideal - it's harder when you're invested in some fashion.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:49
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Milky Moor posted:I'm also pretty sure the cast have opinions which change in the same episode. Sheridan seems fine with it as a form of justice, but the glare he gives the murderer at the end shows that it's a bit more than just clinging to an ideal - it's harder when you're invested in some fashion. That's one of the things I loved about that episode. The episode really hammers that point a bit much, but considering that idea is rarely actually broached, I found it pretty refreshing to see.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:25
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"A Late Delivery from Avalon", loving  okE: I mean okay I dig how they pulled it together and made the metaphor work w.r.t. the misunderstanding that started the Minbari war and all, but drat, holy poo poo what a premise to run with
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Oct 5, 2016 22:20
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