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That quote did happen. I didn't think it was offensive enough on its own to cause this, but can see it given the context of his history.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:19
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There were supposedly other things said as well but then we're getting into stuff even less supported by things I can independently verify.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:26
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Bieeardo posted:I thought Nordic LARP was a lot more experimental than World of Darkness stuff could ever hope to be. At the same time, having been involved with large-scale LARP in North America and recalling that shite when the Camarilla got too big for its britches, I can't really blame them for insulting it as an institution either. To be fair, "Nordic LARP" is kind of a specific thing, as opposed to "Larping that happens in Nordic countries". I've been to games where it's just about roleplaying as a couple trying to reconnect through a cooking class, where it's all about emotional exploration. It's mostly that the experimental stuff gets press, and then gets conflated with the pictures of fantasy games that drift around the internet periodically trying to shame the US for terrible costumes and overcomplicated design. The easiest identifier - a game is Nordic if it's got a laser-focus on a specific thing, has little to no mechanics, and emphasizes personal interaction and accomplishing a narrative elegantly, kind of like modern game design. This has crept into discussion when people design rules that actually look at modern game design and realize that referencing two hundred tables is frustrating enough when you're gaming at a table, as well as emphasis on 360 degree immersion. Vampire is in that weird spot where it kinda works with some of these ideas, but then has the whole host of peak 90s design issues and attendant idiocy that the hobby attracts. I really feel like I should write up something on how a lot of Larp design is still in a weird, 25-years-behind-modern-design rut in a lot of places, because it's fascinating how people try to reinvent the wheel so often. It's like living in the 80s again, when "It's D&D but with one thing changed", except with more dorks in elf costumes.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:28
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It'll come clear eventually, they're waiting until video of that meeting is released.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:28
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Kurieg posted:There were supposedly other things said as well but then we're getting into stuff even less supported by things I can independently verify.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:35
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I have no idea. I'm not a larper and not a part of those groups. Just a guy who does a WoD podcast and is tangentially exposed to these kinds of things. If they do hate eachother I imagine it's in the sense that there were age-old schisms that broke the groups apart and lead STs hate each other out of principle. But being told that they're unifying the systems and oh yeah you guys have to be okay with Rape now is probably something that would overcome those differences toot sweet.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:57
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 Chapter 5 Part 2:Hero Creation quote:Heroes resemble the Beasts that spawned them in most ways, but several concepts that are integral to Beasts do not apply to their Heroic opponents There's a lot of stuff in here that refers to concepts that were retconned out in the post-kickstarter revisions. I've been mostly glossing over them. Also that statement is patently false, the only thing that Heroes and Beasts have in common is that their templates both contain legend and life. Heroes don't have satiety, Lair, Nightmares, or Atavisms. And even though they may have Aspirations, they're exclusively NPCs so they don't gain beats. Hard to Kill Heroes are sturdy and heal quickly, because the legend that drives them is stronger than mortal flesh. Heroes are immune to being Beaten Down and will never Surrender to a Beast unless doing so will give them a better opportunity to kill that beast later. They're also immune to mundane illnesses and never require medical attention for injuries, instead healing very quickly, 1B every 10 minutes, 1L every day, and 1A every three days. Legend and Life As mentioned before, Heroes have a Legend and Life. A Heroes Life represents the mortal life they had before they were a Hero, but their connection to it is more tenuous than that of a Beast's, they can only regain willpower by placing themselves or their mission at significant risk to try and buck the narrative, and only once per scene. Their Legend gives them 1 willpower whenever they act in accordance with their role in the story. And refills completely when they put themselves at great risk to keep the story going. Like breaking into a bank after hours to steal the object of a Beast's ire. Or enter into combat on the Beast's terms knowing that they're outmatched. Integrity Heroes don't use Lair, they instead use mortal Integrity ratings. Integrity is a measure of the strength of a person's self image and "Health of the soul", and any Hero that hunts beasts has an integrity of four or less. Heroic Tracking Heroes have an instinctive sense for finding disturbances in the Primordial Dream. quote:Violent Heroes often conflate their instinctive sense of disruption in the Dream for skill at tracking down dangerous monsters, but that isn’t the case; the most gentle and conscientious Beast can make ripples in the Primordial Dream if she goes too long without feeding, and the most violent and bloodthirsty of the Begotten can kill a dozen people a month and never disturb the Dream. The Hero, however, will sense the former before the latter. Any power that explicitly states that it disturbs the dream (Under the Bed, Inflicting Nightmares) will alert the heroes of the region. "A more sedate or centered Hero might experience this as a series of troubling dreams and think no more of it."  the "violent" heroes instead view it as a call to arms and seek out the physical location of the disturbance. If it resulted from a Horror feeding on a person's nightmare, the Hero finds the dreamer. Same with Under the Bed. If it came from an Atavism or Nightmare (Multiple exceptional successes, using them to kill a person) the hero finds the scene where the event occured. This doesn't require a roll, it just happens.quote:This initial Heroic Tracking does not have or require a game system. A Hero notices the character if the circumstances indicate that one should. If the Storyteller doesn’t want to include a Hero-related plotline just then, she can ignore the result or assume that the Hero that noticed the disturbance isn’t interested or able to track the Beast (again, this is discussed further in Chapter Seven). If the Storyteller decides that the Hero does track the occurrence, the Hero begins an investigation into the Beast. Heroic Stalking Stalking is a "More intimate, dangerous activity than Tracking". This is the Hero trying to learn more about the Beast and setting up a confrontation. Some Heroes skip this step and go right to the stakes and pitchforks, they don't tend to live long. Once a Beast is being stalked, the storyteller rolls the Hero's Wits+Investigation or Composure to determine if he can sense a Beast nearby, or if a Beast has activated an Atavism or Nightmare within the last day, at the cost of a willpower. This doesn't manifest itself as a sense or second sight, but as an unshakable conviction in a truth suddenly revealed to him. Some Heroes view this as a message from God. quote:Dramatic Failure: The Hero is convinced a Beast is present, but suffers from severe doubts about who it is; he believes he may have misidentified the Beast. This grants the Beast character a reprieve, during which she might be able to get the Hero off her trail (or simply kill him, depending on her predilections). quote:Example: Mrs. Winters, the Eshmaki Nemesis we met on in Chapter Three, has a problem. She let her Horror stay too hungry too long; as a result, it hunted down and fed upon Brent, the frat boy bully that Mrs. Winters once taught a brutal lesson. In fairness, Brent had kept his nose clean since that incident, but the Horror doesn’t care. It’s come to visit him a few times. In the waking world, Brent isn’t sleeping well; he looks sallow and has bags under his eyes. In the Primordial Dream, though, these predations have a larger impact. quote:In game terms, Mrs. Winters gained the Ravenous Condition and her Horror fed from Brent twice. The second time, Magda rolled an exceptional success on the Inflicting Nightmares action (p. 99), which indicates a Hero notices the activity. Having just resolved a plot point involving one of the other players, Orson, the Storyteller, decides it’s a good time to give Mrs. Winters something to worry about. He creates a Hero named Nathan Blix, a man who lives in the same town but grew up in the neighborhood that Mrs. Winters protects. Anathema Smaug was missing a single scale on his belly. Other monsters are unable to stomach the blood of a true innocent. Still others are driven to vomiting by a baby's cry. When a Hero uses a monster's raging temper or vulnerable temper against it, he's only fulfilling the Death Wish inherent to it's very nature. This is the story that Heroes tell, and it gives them both courage and comfort in their fight. Anathema are the secret weaknesses and inhuman urges that give mortals the ability to bring Beasts low. Rather than being an intrinsic part of their nature, however, Anathema are a thorn in their sides placed there by a Hero designed to draw them into the story that Heroes want. One where that ends in their inevitable death and the Hero's triumph. Once placed an Anathema burrows into a Beast's nature and tries to turn them into the monster that the Hero sees her as, whether she likes it or not Placing Anathema Every Hero is capable of placing Anathema on a Beast, though they are never conscious of this fact. In the Hero's mind they are simply discovering something that has always been there, with this revelation proving that they are destined to succeed in their fight. To a Beast, Anathema are Conditions that Heroes can place in combat. And while Heroes are always looking to draw Beasts into their narrative, Beasts can defend themselves against Anathema most of the time without even thinking about it. While their Horrors are content and restful, the Beast is too human for the Anathema to stick. If the Horror is active and starving it can fend off an Anathema without even thinking about it. In the middle ground, however, a Beast is neither too monstrous or too human to be safe. If a Hero makes an attack against a Sated beast, they can attempt to enhance their attack and weaken their foe. A point of willpower spent before the attack will cause an Anathema if the attack hits. But the Hero can't regain that Willpower until the Anathema resolves or the Beast is dead. The Hero who inflicted the Anathema is immediately aware of it's exact nature and limitations, experiencing it as a great revelation. Other heroes can make a Wits+Empathy roll while in the presence of a Beast to figure it out themselves. Once a Beast is placed under an Anathema they become immediately aware of it. It feels like a thick iron spike being driven into their back or an iron chain being draped around their neck and locked in place. It is a foreign clinging thing that remains just uncomfortable enough to be impossible to forget. She knows exactly how it works and what it drives them to do, but it is completely undetectable to anyone else, even other beasts. The Nature of Anathema Once an Anathema is placed, it remains regardless of the Beast's resultant satiety. A Ravenous or Starving beast is protected by their monstrous nature, but a Gorged beast's defenses are lowered and suffer the effects more sharply. If their Horror is Slumbering, however, the Anathema has no effect, but "most would not consider this perk to be worth the problems associated with being separated from their Horrors" because this is a game where being compelled to torturemurder is considered desireable. No beast can suffer under more than one Anathema at a time, and each Anathema has it's own resolution point, either going to Ravenous, or going to Slumbering. Which kind of creates a self perpetuating cycle. To get to Slumbering a Beast would need to do something that would gather the attention of a Hero. To get out of Ravenous they would have to do the same. Beasts should be literally inundated with Heroes all the time. The Anathema that resolve at Ravenous are conceptually pretty weak, because spending yourself low is easier than gorging yourself high, particularly when being at Starving will weaken the Anathema anyway, and killing a Hero is explicitly stated as one of the ways to resolve Ravenous. The ones that resolve at Slumbering on the other hand.. Example Anathema I'm not going to go over all of them, just a few.  quote:Bane  quote:Phobia quote:Rage quote:Weak Spot quote:Weaponbound Followers Heroes don't have to fight alone, even besides forming bands. By tapping into the dream while a Hero sleeps, they can amass followers, showing them the vision of the battle to come. For most people this just results in some strange dreams that vanish with their morning coffee. But for people who have seen the supernatural or been subject to a Horror inflicted Nightmare, it triggers something deeper and more damaging. Forcing them into the Hero's narrative. And then the game inexplicably decides to take three paragraphs to shame Heroes for being degenerate quote:Most people in the Chronicles of Darkness experience the supernatural and ignore it. They see something inexplicable and terrifying — a ghost shrieking in an abandoned house, a man changing into a wolf and running away, a woman growing razor-sharp silver wings and taking flight, or a vampire feeding in the corner booth of a dark club. The witnesses forget or make themselves forget. They look for ways to rationalize what they’ve seen. This doesn’t make them weak or foolish — ignoring the supernatural is a survival mechanism.  Oh and the game never really touches on the morality of Heroes doing the exact same thing that Beasts used to do to create Heroes in the first place. They're NPCs why would you care about them? Systems There isn't one! The storyteller decides if a Hero has followers and he does! They don't have any supernatural qualities but they can aid him in other ways, like police officers and politicians making a Beast's life a living hell. They can also aid them in combat, either directly or through aiding him. If they aid him, each follower can grant the hero one of the following, +2 dice to his attack pool, +2 to his defense, -1 to the Beast's defense, or take the full damage of any one attack meant for the Hero. If a follower dies or is incapacitated for any reason, the hero gains a +3 dice modifier to his next action.... "Regardless of who kills the follower"... BECAUSE HEROES ARE EVIL AND WOULD DO THAT YOU GET IT YET!??!!??!? Gifts With each Beast killed, a Hero grows in power, gaining different gifts. Not all of them are interesting or notable. There's one that gives them 2/0 Armor whenever they're fighting Beasts, another that gives them +1 to a weapon group and +2 strength when fighting a beast, one that lets them Stalk beasts easier, and one that turns a chosen weapon into a "holy blade". Basic combat buff stuff, but there are a few that are special. Loremaster Loremaster lets Heroes place anathema on a beast from a distance, so long as they've encountered the Beast before in any capacity. To the Hero in question, however, they are simply researching something that was always there. If the Beast is Sated when the hero begins, an "Anathema Seed" takes hold and the Beast becomes aware that someone's researching her downfall. This doesn't grant the Beast any kind of insight into where or when or how, but if they know who and what the Hero is, then they can hunt them down and kill them, which will remove the seed. Even if the Beast removes the sated condition later, it's too late, the seed has taken hold. If the Beast isn't sated, the Hero is immediately aware that his current efforts won't provide any fruit, but they're free to try again later. Actually pulling this off is an Extended action, which is an oddity for a Storyteller character exclusive power. But since you can only roll once per day, and the Beast can work against it, it's best to roll and keep track of successes. The difficulty is equal to the beast's lairX2, if the beast already has an anathema it's simply equal to it's lair. This is one of the best ways to apply the "social" anathema to a Beast. But I imagine having Rage applied to you in the middle of a Board meeting might be... interesting. Real World This power allows a Hero to remove lair tilts that a Beast imposes on a scene. They do this by rolling (Power Attribute) + Occ.... wait what. Heroes don't have a power attribute, they've never had a power attribute. And this isn't just the PDF either  Man, loving no one gave two shits about Heroes. Saint's Whisper This is the other non-combat way of inflicting Anathema, not through research or through divine inspiration. But through verbal beatdowns. quote:Heroes with Saint’s Whisper gain the ability to place Anathema on vulnerable Beasts through conversing with them. To do so, a Hero must engage in a scene of meaningful social interaction with his opponent, which must include the Hero denouncing the Beast as evil or monstrous in some way. As the Hero does so, the Beast feels the Anathema creeping into her Horror, and faces two options: physically attack the Hero immediately (using a Nightmare does not count) and end the Hero’s attempt, or be placed under the Anathema. A clever Hero will try to use Saint’s Whisper in situations where the Beast cannot leave the conversation or lash out, such as approaching her at her workplace or in a public space with plenty of witnesses. Even if the Beast avoids the Anathema through violence, the consequences of her “outburst” may be problem enough. Retirement The end of a Hero's career usually involves his death. But sometimes Heroes just stop. The urge to kill goes away and they find a "fulfilling, normal, interesting life" by abandoning the monster that defines him. Example Heroes  Desmond Oakes "I stopped counting scars a long time ago" A former navy Seal who took up the fight in order to protect other people. He's actually a pretty nice person who dislikes the hunt despite the sense of validation that it brings him... Which is because he has Integrity 5 and shouldn't be an antagonist Hero going by their own rules. He's everything a Hero should be but isn't. Moving on  Thaddeus Pearson "Never fear, milady. I've come to kill this foul Best!" Yes, of course I'm going to be quoting this guy's entire entry. quote:Thaddeus has spent his entire life blaming his problems on other people. Coming from a middle-class suburban home, he was told all through his childhood that he was special. Whenever the real world failed to reinforce this, he retreated into whatever fiction he could find that said that bookish kids like him would eventually inherit the earth. Thaddeus graduated from a good college with excellent grades and very few friends, and went right to work behind a desk at a mid-sized corporation’s programming department. quote:Thaddeus is a tall, skinny man in his mid-30s, clean-shaven with pale skin and neatly cut hair. During office hours, he wears business casual polo shirts and slacks, and is completely unremarkable. While out hunting monsters, he wears a poorly fitted trenchcoat and a black trilby hat. Thaddeus considers himself a modern gentleman and speaks with an unnecessarily verbose vocabulary, dotted with “chivalric” language he’s mostly picked up from fantasy movies and novels. And yes, he uses a Sword.  Marian Jones "It's filth like this that let the devil in. Clean up your act or I'll clean it for you." A conservative, highly religious, stay at home mom who lived in a suburban home with her husband and two kids. Then her son turned seventeen, started listening to the devils music, and she started having nightmares. Finally one morning she woke up in a cold sweat and went to her son's room and found a woman, cold and unbreathing, but very much aware. So she figured out that her son was the devil and she needed to kill him. She does so by wearing milspec body armor and wielding an AK-47 still stained with the blood of her first kill. She's got a pile of kills under her belt and a lot of powers.  Sleeping Beauty "I'm not a ghost, I'm just dreaming." quote:Heroes on the hunt have seen glimpses of a young warrior queen in their dreams, pointing the way to the Lair of their quarry. When they get to the creature’s Lair, she’s there, fighting beside them to vanquish the creature. She says she is sleeping somewhere in the real world and beseeches the Heroes she allies with to find her. To date, none of the Children or the Heroes who have encountered her can track her down. quote:Melanie is a truly strange case. She should not, by rights, have been able to follow a Horror to its Lair, much less kill it. It is possible some outside force — another Beast, perhaps, or some other supernatural creature able to enter the Primordial Dream — used Melanie as a weapon and then left her adrift. Acting as a Hero provides her soul with the sustenance it needs to stop her drifting apart in the Dream, but if she were to return to her body, would she continue the fight? It’s never crossed her mind. She just wants to go home.  So what's different: Hero Edition? Chiefly, in the initial draft, Heroes were made by Beasts. The soul of a Beast touched the broken soul of an otherwise normal Human and turned them into something else. In some cases the Soul did this to create an adversary for the Beast to kill because they weren't being fed enough and were being pissy. In other cases they do it because it's a Beast Soul and doesn't loving care. But since Heroes were made by Beasts, they took on a bit of that Beast's persona. Heroes made by a Tyrant became more self confident, seeing themselves as revolutionaries or leaders. Heroes made by a Collector become greedy hoarders and thieves. Predator Heroes become obsessed with getting stronger, being faster, being better. Nemesis' heroes try to live their lives as pure as possible, seeing fault in everyone around them. Ravager Heroes become paranoid, viewing everyone and everything as disposable or out to betray him. The only other real change in this section is that to a certain degree Melanie is portrayed as actively malicious and "Will continue the hunt once she finds her body", but again, in this version after being touched by a Beast Heroes aren't even really themselves anymore. Which is at once amazing and also kind of disappointing, because the game still blamed Heroes for being Heroes. When their only real fault was being Near a Beast at one point in their lives and having a low integrity. They were a side effect of Beasts behaving badly and also their nemesis. They were at once a Beast's greatest shame and worst fear. If they had actually treated them sympathetically and had Beasts talk realistically about the fact that no matter how moral they tried to be they were one bad day away from ruining someone's life it would have been a much better and more mature game. That isn't what we got. That said, this is still somehow better than the treatment Heroes got in the leaked playtest documents. quote:Hero Slang For you see when you have your life irrevocably changed by a horror that wants only for you to suffer, you turn into a Mysogynistic Dudebro. Next Time: The rest of the supernaturals and why they might want to kill beasts
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Sep 30, 2016 06:37
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Power Attribute refers to Strength, Intelligence and Presence. Attributes are divided into three categories: Power, Finesse and Resilience in addition to Physical, Mental, Social.
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Sep 30, 2016 06:45
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True, I didn't think of that. but the problem is that when they reference this stuff previously they just used "Power+Stat" without the parentheticals. and Heroes would only have Power if they were dream-traveling to a Beast's lair, which isn't something that Heroes are capable of doing under their own power. Someone who physically traveled to a Beast's lair still uses their physical stats in combat against the spiritual Horror.
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Sep 30, 2016 07:00
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That notation is used in a few places where the actual attribute varies. In their physical body, they still have 3 Power attributes, they just use whichever one is bet suited to the situation. Beast has a lot of problems, but I'm pretty sure this is just a generic confusing
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Sep 30, 2016 07:14
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It's the only time such notation shows up in the Beast book, in every other occasion they've used 'X+Y or Z+W'. It reads to me like a placeholder that got missed.
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Sep 30, 2016 07:18
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Count Chocula posted:Australia has a massive WoD LARP scene. Which is bizarre, since the heat makes even non-vampires burn to death. I mean.. 'massive'. They have a multi-day convention with like 50 attendants. I went to a medieval larp this year in Melbourne with 600. So mileage varies. Australia also got removed from the worldwide chronicle (because every game across the world was connected) at some point, due to not following the meta-storyline. Larp drama is hilarious.
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Sep 30, 2016 13:18
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The youtube videos of both the keynote and Q&A where poo poo went down have been posted. I put up links in the WoD thread so people can judge for themselves; haven't had time to watch them in full yet myself.Bieeardo posted:At the same time, having been involved with large-scale LARP in North America and recalling that shite when the Camarilla got too big for its britches, I can't really blame them for insulting it as an institution either. I don't know whether this particular shitstorm is a case of this, but I am starting to wonder how much inevitable internet rage over the next few years is going to boil down to butthurt over the shifting center of gravity for the WoD from the US to Europe, and particularly the Scandanavian LARP scene. Like, Swedish Dracula sounds like a loon whose ideas have ranged from goofy and impractical to just dumb, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of hate come down anyway from some of the big american LARP organizations. The oWoD both in core setting and culture seemed to assume the US as a default, and insomuch as LARPs were influential on the wolf, it was the American LARP scene that had whatever passed for an inside track. Now those same LARPs are being told that there's going to be a lot more focus on the setting as based on Europe, and oh by the way the new owners are going to be taking their cues from the Euro LARP scene cuz they think the American LARP style is kind of lame. That's gotta sting.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:02
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The four sample Heroes is one who violates the concept of what a Hero is, an MRA, a conservative old lady who hates artistic freedom, and a comatose teenager victim of Beast violence. If you take away the ones who aren't villainous, we're left with the MRA and the conservative who hates rock music. And as samples of antagonists they're so... banal. They're not tragic figures, they're not ideologically motivated to oppose Beasts, they're not a representative of systematic oppression - they're just Heroes who happen to be people McFarland doesn't like or something. What compelling villains! It's like... if the only way you can convince me that Heroes are evil is by pointing out they're MRAs and religious conservatives, you haven't done a really good job of convincing me that Heroes are evil. And if you want to tell me that MRAs are evil, telling me they're Heroes is not a very compelling argument either. It's like a Tom Clancy novel where the villains are spineless liberals, or all those dumb films where the villain is evil and also gay, or evil and also wears women's underwear. (Thaddeus' description also strikes me as almost conveying the narrative that he's a genuinely delusional, hear-the-voice-of-God-telling-me-to-kill kind of person. And that just gives this game a really uncomfortable undertone of presenting pretend-killing the mentally ill as a wholesome social activity.)
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Sep 30, 2016 14:07
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Marian does legitimately think she hears the voice of God, it's how most heroes explain away their heroic insight.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:14
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LatwPIAT posted:The four sample Heroes is one who violates the concept of what a Hero is, an MRA, a conservative old lady who hates artistic freedom, and a comatose teenager victim of Beast violence.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:21
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Halloween Jack posted:I love that RPGnet has a dozen rules requiring you to be nice to people, but Beast kicked off a long conversation about how maybe a child in a coma was asking for it. Beast's entire justification is 'They're asking for it so it's okay to unleash sadistic violence'. In better hands, it could even be the theme. A satire of heroic violence, of the idea that if you're hurting 'bad guys' it's okay to do whatever you want to them. But no room for any coherent or interesting ideas in Beast.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:24
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I actually don't mind Marian, in fact I think the banality actually works in her favour because she is loving anything but banal when you think about it. Just when you think you have this fairly standard conservative old granny stereotype pegged it turns out she has dozens of kills, maxed out hero powers and is coming at you with a loving AK-47 holy christ. She's basically a member of the village council from Hot Fuzz who are all caricatures of petty small-town oppressiveness hiding action-movie style badass assassins who get into gunfights, spout silly one-liners and murder people with garden shears. But you know it's Beast so she's a lot less cool by association. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 14:25
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Night10194 posted:In better hands, it could even be the theme. A satire of heroic violence, of the idea that if you're hurting 'bad guys' it's okay to do whatever you want to them. Not particularly cleverly, but it's been done.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:28
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ZeroCount posted:I actually don't mind Marian, in fact I think the banality actually works in her favour because she is loving anything but banal when you think about it. This would also have been a good general direction for Heroes. They're that victim the Beast thinks is helpless and easily sussed out, just like all the other people they've murdered for offending their latest dumb obsession, and then suddenly it turns out they're the Last Girl/Everyman Action Hero/Secretly An Ex CIA Assassin. Like, have it be a narrative coincidence that whenever the beast gets all hubrisy about how easy it is to murk humans, some of 'em turn out to be Heroes and don't take any of their poo poo.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:29
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When you crow about how good it is being a beast, roll +power. On a 7-9 the MC adds another Hero threat to their roster. On a 10+ they add three.
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Sep 30, 2016 14:44
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I mean, it's how these things go in fiction. You kidnap someone's best friend and they turn out to be a masked vigilante as a night job. You torment a kid and she grows up to get revenge on you or turns out to be some kind of magical dream knight. Suddenly, look, you have a ready-made conflict!
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Sep 30, 2016 14:49
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Or they turn into a house with crab legs!
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Sep 30, 2016 15:01
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Halloween Jack posted:Or they turn into a house with crab legs! I need to know if this is a reference and if it is, what it is.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:03
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Night10194 posted:I need to know if this is a reference and if it is, what it is. Godlike - a man basically gets tortured and brutalized by soviet soldiers to manifest powers, and he did - by basically becoming a monster, murdering everyone involved and escaping into the wilds of Russia - called Baba Yaga due to his form vaguely resembling the witch's house.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:26
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Robindaybird posted:Godlike - a man basically gets tortured and brutalized by soviet soldiers to manifest powers, and he did - by basically becoming a monster, murdering everyone involved and escaping into the wilds of Russia - called Baba Yaga due to his form vaguely resembling the witch's house. Ah, right, I remember that now. That review got me to pick up Godlike to take more of a look at.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:28
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What is the end goal of Beast? I know I have a lot more respect for abomination, demon and mummy since they have actual goals. So what is beast's
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Sep 30, 2016 15:43
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Rigged Death Trap posted:What is the end goal of Beast? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? No seriously. The only real end-goals of Beast is undergoing the Merger and becoming a Myth. Which isn't something a lot of people want to do. Other than that I guess you can become your area's Apex but that's a one person seat and this is a multiplayer game. Beast doesn't really have end-goals it was always meant to piggyback on another game's in that regard.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:47
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Kurieg posted:????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I notice the game has a very real problem with 'is a multiplayer game'. I've run a lot of one-on-one campaigns in my day. They can be really fun, focusing on a single main character and how they interact with the cast and setting around them. But just about every RPG should be written to be able to accommodate multiple players and Beast just feels really bad at it, since you basically have a whole pack of serial killers/torturers running around trying to get enough screen time to get off on whatever insanity they prefer.
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Sep 30, 2016 15:52
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Beast wouldn't have so many creepy, gross issues if it abandoned the whole "teaching lessons" theme, which I'm not convinced is particularly strong or worth saving. I've sometimes thought about the WoD having a "Freak" game that covered the Phantom of the Opera and the Creature from the Black Lagoon, just because those are also Universal monsters. The theme of such a game would probably be being an outcast who desires love, but rejection sometimes drives you to be the monster people see you as. Maybe that impinges on Promethean's territory, though. Speaking of Baba Yaga, maybe Beasts work better as products of society's sins--the hidden violence inherent in capitalism, patriarchy, and authoritarianism--destined to wreak havoc to punish society for its hypocrisy. That I can get behind. (Of course innocent people are going to get hurt too, but this is the WoD. It's okay to handle disturbing themes, just not for the authorial voice to outright approve of predation.) In this model, Beasts who still teach primeval, reactionary lessons like "Don't go out at night or you're asking to get raped and murdered!" are broken crazy things that everyone wants dead, especially "normal" Beasts.
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Sep 30, 2016 16:01
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Chiming in with agreement that (Power Attribute) is awkward but not unprecedented. A werewolf's Hunter's Aspect, for example, involves a roll of whichever Power Attribute (Intelligence, Strength and Presence) is appropriate to the situation. It's not great writing in that this power doesn't provide any guidance as to which would be appropriate to the situation, but it doesn't seem like a placeholder left in. I'll replace it with my own little nit to pick on top of the mountain of Beast, however. Tying two bits of this chapter together: Kurieg posted:Legend and Life So, a Hero's Life is relevant because they can gain Willpower by indulging their Life to the exclusion of the hunt, right? Melanie's Life is Comatose. Her writeup has a separate section to explain her Legend and Life and what they denote, and it doesn't explain how it is supposed to be relevant or useful that she can recover Willpower by stepping back from the hunt to be more comatose. Beast: the Primordial posted:Melanie’s Life is Comatose; since she is stuck in a coma, she can’t do much else in the physical world. She’s trapped between worlds and can’t reach her body to fulfill her destiny as a Hero. If anyone who wishes to do her bodily harm finds her body, she has little to no recourse to defend herself.
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Sep 30, 2016 16:47
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Yeah, The problem with (Power Attribute) is that you need to provide some kind of indication of how you will use the different power attributes in different situations and you can't just drop (Power Attribute) Without any kind of setup or explanation. And she's a Hero, they're explicitly NPC characters so their legend and life don't really matter. That's kind of the problem with everything involving them. They have what the ST wants them to have. If they need powers they have powers. If they need an army of followers they have an army. If they need willpower they've got it. The idea seems to be that battles between heroes and Beasts are multi-fight affairs with people retreating often before the final blow happens which the text doesn't really support that well. Why would either party want to let the other retreat?
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Sep 30, 2016 17:10
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I know this was a couple of pages back, but a Batman Inc-style game could be really drat good. Trying to balance being a bunch of idealistic dudes who think crime can be solved with thunder punches, with the fact that you're not Bruce Wayne and have to actually keep to a budget or accept donations (or "donations"). Add in some PR/image control concepts (the local cops might look the other way if you obviously rescue innocents/their guys - or they might not), and the risk of getting jaded and increasingly brutalised by the stuff you see every night. It's a better justification than some for a "humanity" mechanic. The icing on the cake would be that if you screw up too badly Big Bat Daddy comes down on you...but even worse, if you start doing too well some of his A-list rogues gallery think you might be fun to mess with. I might start looking into systems that could run this.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:24
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I'd just as soon play members of the Bat-Family or Batman Inc. with Bruce Wayne far away, in space, currently dead, or nursing a back injury. I'd be tempted to introduce a WoD-style Shadow of the Bat stat: as it goes up, you become tougher, scarier, and more enduring but also heal slower and be bad at anything that isn't about being a sadistic spirit of vengeance. Edit: That's based on the Batman leading up to Infinite Crisis where he was just increasingly a douchebag. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 17:39
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My god imagine You get too good at being batman junior and Bam It's loving Kite Man
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Sep 30, 2016 17:40
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The Joker going after Knight and Squire with Harmless British Joker who just likes facepaint and purple suits was a pretty great arc, yeah.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:42
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Siivola posted:I admit to being a bit uneducated on this, but looking back at the big names, it seems like for every Feng Shui there was a Legend of the Five Rings or a Rifts or some other game that didn't get played by the rules even at their writers' tables. Belatedly, the reason Legend of the Five Rings didn't resemble John Wick's play style / vision was because his editors looked at what he wrote, concluded that it wasn't marketable, and then got another half-dozen writers to massage it closer to being a conventional (some might use the word "coherent") RPG. So it's a slightly different case. Grnegsnspm posted:Way back in the long, long ago; Jef and I (mostly Jef) kept saying that we would review this Batman RPG he had. We kept putting it off. The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. But now we make good on that promise. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: Batman Roleplaying Game The only copy I have of this RPG is called Blood of Heroes. For those that don't know, Mayfair had intended to publish a 4th edition of DC Heroes but couldn't keep the license, and a company named Pulsar Games bought it, publishing without the DC license as Blood of Heroes. And to their credit, it is a modestly improved version of the 3rd edition rules. But what do you do when you don't have a license,? Why, you make your own world! The Blood of Heroes world! It's a 90s-era trainwreck with art that's reminiscent of Synnibarr where most characters have peoples vaguely related to some nonsense (literally) regarding Atlantis, most of the presented characters are in the 1000-6000 point range (Superman is roughly 2000 points in the original game), and unironic sentences like "Narash Tered, a demon from the Dimension of Demons..." But who needs big-name characters when you have Anarchy Man, Invulnerus, or Neon Knight? From what I understand the rights for Blood of Heroes rights were bought out by members of MEGS (that's the system's name) community to republish it and the whole thing fell apart due to internet drama, so there's that. FMguru posted:It's been done. Well, Violence never presents you as the good guys. For those less familiar, it's a parody of grim 90s RPGs that's basically modern, urban D&D - that is, you replace the dungeon with an apartment complex or office building and the PCs go through it killing people and taking their stuff. But it pretty much berates the reader at every turn as doltish, monstrous assholes for buying or (worse) playing Violence and presents the PCs as "monsters in the truest sense" - i.e. just straight-up normal human murderers. But it's also a pure parody that clearly doesn't intend to be played (the playtesting credit is "Surely you jest").
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Sep 30, 2016 18:30
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I got the images for this update somewhat differently, so apologies for the poorer quality. 3: Scott Jenning’s Kickstarter  The Machine of Lum the Mad is another artifact that harkens back to Mystic Energies. Players of Baldur’s Gate may have even stumbled on this artifact in their play through. The book describes this artifact differently than how Baldur's Gate depicts it. The Machine is a massive, U-shaped console adorned with no fewer than 60 levers, 40 dials, and a switchboard of sockets, plug and wires. Most of the controls are obviously broken. In the center of the machine is a crystal box 4’x5’x7’, large enough for 4 man-sized creatures to stand in. The whole contraption weighs 2 1/2 tons and fills a good sized chamber. Compared to other artifacts, the Machine of Lum the Mad is pretty fragile. The Machine was first discovered by Baron Lum, who used the Machine to elevate himself from petty warlord to all-conquering tyrant. Lum was able to master the Machine’s workings, but the process drove him mad. He used the machine to create 50 new species of monsters, and wipe out entire armies, both his enemies and his own. Lum’s reign came to an end in a titanic battle with a former follower, Leuk-O, and the machine was presumed lost. The Machine is probably the most half-baked artifact in this entire book, both in terms of what it can do and how a DM would incorporate it into his campaign. The book suggests that a DM can make an entire adventure out of attempting to learn learn what one particular setting does. Why the players would seek out the Machine to begin with is left to the DM to figure out. A description of what the Machine could do might provide a motive, but as we’ll see the Machine’s capabilities are really vague. There’s a page and a half under the Powers subsection Most of it is given over to describing how to use the machine. The book gives a visual aid to help players out, and plays into how to decypher using the machine.  One actual bit of info on the Machine’s abilities that is clear is that certain powers are internal, while others are external. Internal powers affect those inside the crystal box, leaving those outside unaffected, while external powers alter the world outside the box leaving those inside it safe. Anyone inside the box are completely vulnerable to the Machine’s internal powers, not even allowed a save or magical resistance roll. On the other hand, the box protects its contents from all physical, magical, gaseous, and magical attacks. At this point, we learn that only 35 of the Machine’s powers still function-20 internal, 15 external. Each of these effects has a specific control configuration to activate, and describing these controls is what most of this entry is dedicated to. Of the 60 levers, 10 remain functional. Of the 40 dials, 20 remain functional. There are 26 plugs and 26 sockets. The levers are labeled ‘0’ to ‘9’, the dials are labeled ‘A’ to ‘T’ and can be set from ‘0’ to ‘6’ (0 is the off setting), and the wires and plugs are separately labeled ‘A’ to ‘Z’. Okay, hang on. Are these labels in Common, or do players need a comprehend language spell? Also, the levers have an ‘On’ and ‘Off” position, but how do the players know what that setting is? Finally, one thing that’s not specified is whether the Machine has a master switch or not. According to the book, there are 8.5 x 1048 possible settings. Is there a risk that in putting in the combination for one power, you accidentally activate a different power? Anyway, here’s how a DM should write out a combination. The code has three sections. The first part indicates what levers to put in the on position. The second part is for the dials. Dials set to 0 are ignored, while the other dials are noted as letter/number combo. The final part is for connecting plugs to sockets. The book says to list the plug before the socket (so ‘AW’ means connect plug A to socket W), but I would flip that around on account of the diagram putting the socket on the left and the plugs on the right. That aside, the notations are at least clear enough that players won’t confuse a code for one part with another part. To use the example in the book, a possible setting would look like ‘067 : G1/M4/R3 : CB/FH/OM/ST/WQ’  You want bees? ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!” After a machine is used, there is a 70% chance that some reaction in the machine alters the settings required to duplicate the effect. Presumably, this is to prevent repeated uses of the machine, but it raises some questions: If effects are unlikely to be duplicated, then who is recording these working combinations? If Lum himself recorded the combination, then how would players know for sure that the Machine is still capable of making the power? Did Lum have to worry about the Machine reconfiguring its interface, or is it just a consequence of the machine falling apart? If the players discover a code, would they be able to tell if that power had been used, especially since the user receives no indication of this change? As for what the Machine actually does it left to the DM, with only the Random Powers tables suggested as a starting point. Gee, thanks, book  The Machine of Lum the Mad has two curses. First, any time the machine is started without a correct combination, the DM rolls on the following table:  Second, every time an effect is triggered, the operator must make a save vs spell. If the roll is failed, the character’s Intelligence score is increased by 1 while the Wisdom score is reduced by 1. With each failed save, the character’s cranium increases by 10%. Suggested Means of Destruction:
That was kind of disappointing, honestly. Let’s talk about an artifact that actually has abilities. Now Lum’s friend, Leuk-o, had his own artifact, The Mighty Servant of Leuk-o, a jet-black, 9 foot tall fantasy mecha. The interior of the Mighty Servant is configured for two man-sized creatures, while as up to 5 can ride on the top while it’s moving It’s speculated that whoever created the Mighty Servant also built the Machine of Lum the Mad, although the theory probably comes from the intertwined history of the artifacts’ namesake. General Leuk-o was a follower of Lum when he found the artifact. Upon finding the Mighty Servant, Leuk-o decided that taking orders was for sods and split Lum’s domain into civil war. After several battles that ended in a draw, Lum and Leuk-o faced each other artifact v artifact. The aftermath of their clash left Lum’s kingdom a scorched wasteland, and both artifacts lost to time.  The Mighty Servant of Leuk-o’s powers are written with what I think are rules for large-scale battles, so it makes sense that the book suggests that giving this artifact to an antagonist so the players have to raise an army to stop him or her. While the book says the artifact isn’t something that should be left with players for long because of its curse, it also says that adventures can be made for finding out how to use the Mighty Servant’s powers. So maybe the players ride around it once or twice, and then it just disappears?  The Mighty Servant of Leuk-o has 60 hit points and -6 AC. It can only be struck by +2 weapons or better. Bludgeoning weapons do only 1 point of damage against it, while edged weapons only cause half their normal damage, rounded down. It has 90% Magic Resistance, and is utterly immune to acid, cold, heat, normal fire, vacuum and water. Lightning, electricity and magical fire inflict 20% normal damage, assuming the attack gets through the MR. If damaged, the Mighty Servant regenerates 2 hp/round. Anyone inside the Mighty Servant is fully protected from outside attacks. Given all these defenses, it is possible to destroy the Mighty Servant by reducing its hp to zero. The interior of the Mighty Servant is akin to a modern cockpit, and anyone trying to use its active powers needs either to consult sages or tomes or experiment through trial and error. At least the DM is told to just abstract this learning process. The Mighty Servant of Leuk-o has a movement of 3, and can only be active for 12 hours at a time. After-which the machine must be inactive for an hour to recharge its energies. The Mighty Servant “strikes as a 10-HD creature” (does that mean it uses the default THAC0? Why not just give the THAC0? Damnit, TSR!). It can attack once a round (or at least that’s my reading) and each blow does 1d6 x 10 points of damage. The Mighty Servant is strong enough to destroy castles. If used as a siege engine, it does the same damage as a screw or ram. If used in a BattleSystem game, its stats are AD d12+d8, AR 4, HD 10, Hits 5, MV 3. For random powers, the Mighty Servant gets 6 Offensive Powers, 6 Major SLP, and 2 Healing Powers that apply to any one creature inside the interior compartment. Using any of these abilities drains one hour of continuous usage. Major SLP: 24, 7, 50, 46, 65, 99
Offensive Powers: 1, 2, 18, 1, 18, 8
Healing: 20, 19
The Mighty Servant’s curse has both a short- and long-term component. First, every time the operator uses a power, he must make a save vs spell or goes into a battle frenzy for 24 hours. “During that time, the artifact is used in a rampage of destruction to any and all within reach.” Considering that the Mighty Servant has to take an hour break every 12 hours, it seems that might be difficult. Second, the character using the Mighty Servant risks Artifact Transformation. “Those affected by this power gradually have their alignment shifted to chaotic neutral”. That-that’s not what Artifact Transformation is used for  Besides hitting it a lot, there are two other means of destruction suggested
SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 19:26
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I always assumed that the labels on the Machine were for player/DM benefit, and any actual description of settings would be a sheaf of sketches depicting the whole control console or the like.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:50
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ZeroCount posted:I actually don't mind Marian, in fact I think the banality actually works in her favour because she is loving anything but banal when you think about it. Honestly she's great, I'd use her as an NPC in just about any game I could get her into. Especially if it's low-key investigative stuff. The old, slightly demented lady who invites them in for tea and biscuits, then when the chips are down and the monsters show up, she just wades in there with an assault rifle and body armour. Oh and the home knit sweaters she made for them, which they wore only to not upset her, turn out to be made of kevlar fibers and actually work as armour. In any game with a sense of humour she'd be amazing.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:58
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