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Sub Harrison posted:Lots of questions obviously, like why do the Mares need Eldian children when they somehow own the titans Do we know for sure that Mares can even become titans? The end of the chapter made it sound like Reiner and the others were Eldian all along trying to prove their loyalty to the Mare similar to Zeke, and all the people sent to Paradis as punishment seem to be Eldian as well. If Eldians are the only ones who can use the serum then that would make sense but then it invites the question of how Mares turned the tables by stealing the serums in the first place if they couldn't use them. Is quadrupedal a shifter or have they found a way to make non-shifter titans intelligent? The newly-made ones from Connie's village seemed to be following Zeke's orders during Utgard arc after all. yellowyams fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 00:35
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 13:07 |
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yellowyams posted:Do we know for sure that Mares can even become titans? The end of the chapter made it sound like Reiner and the others were Eldian all along trying to prove their loyalty to the Mare similar to Zeke, and all the people sent to Paradis as punishment seem to be Eldian as well. If Eldians are the only ones who can use the serum then that would make sense but then it invites the question of how Mares turned the tables by stealing the serums in the first place if they couldn't use them. All shifters we've seen so far are Eldian. I'm thinking all the conventional shifters are the original crew from 2000 years ago,, and the mindless/semi-intelligent are all recent, failed experiments by the Mares to replicate the power. On side note, I just noticed this:  
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Oct 7, 2016 01:01
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Um... did I miss a crunchyroll link or something?
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Oct 7, 2016 01:31
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Crunchyroll stopped doing the latest-chapter-for-free thing far as I can tell.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:34
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Sub Harrison posted:
Yeah that was my first thought too. Never cheat on your spouse, folks, or it will come back to bite you
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Oct 7, 2016 05:17
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okay, so this series takes the third-way position in japanese politics: people do not inherit the sins of their ancestors (self evidently true, but a point of contention amongst rear end in a top hat nationalists), but also that revanchist nationalism is hosed up at some point, something happened between grisha's titanification and revival that caused him to disavow the revolution and the king was right to cloister himself for the safety of the human race. and now the wall titans are a metaphor for the cold war and the atomic bomb
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Oct 7, 2016 07:24
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Oh wow the callbacks. e: I haven't found a proper typeset scanlation yet but there's an album with the korean scans + translations: http://imgur.com/a/O62w9 In case you can't wait.
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Oct 7, 2016 07:50
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That explains a lot 
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Oct 7, 2016 09:44
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Phobophilia posted:at some point, something happened between grisha's titanification and revival that caused him to disavow the revolution[/spoiler] Nah he's still a revolutionist since when he saw the Mares begin their attack he went ahead with his original plan.
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Oct 7, 2016 13:01
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Can we say the basement delivered? In the sense he didn't deflected the issue or delayed the info dump even more for dramatic purposes. People wanted the basement to know what the hell was going on in the setting and in the origins of the story, and we are having it.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:43
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Now that is a drat chapter.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:49
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Sub Harrison posted:
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Oct 7, 2016 17:56
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Kyte posted:Oh wow the callbacks. 
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Oct 7, 2016 18:31
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This loving chapter, holy poo poo did the basement deliver.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:25
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Kyte posted:Oh wow the callbacks. drat, that owns. Can't wait to read the Crunchyroll proper translation as it was tough to piece together exactly what the hell was going on with what's out there right now.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:03
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Wow. That's how you resolve a mystery. Jesus. The shift in perspective is incredible. And, as far as I can see, it all holds together and doesn't invalidate or trivialize any of what we've seen so far. It just adds more context. So much more context. So the biggest question I had has a sensible-ish answer now: why did Riener, Bertholt and Annie feel justified in wiping out humanity? It seems as if they were indoctrinated by a police state! Not the most satisfying answer, but it makes sense. Still, I wonder what they thought they were doing. Grisha believes that the Mare state's motivation is natural resources. Which is kind of a cool twist- you can't rule an increasingly modernized world with titan powers. But Grisha's not exactly unbiased. His back story is really dark but effective at making his mindset clear, and serves for a good thematic basis for his whole story- He got his sister killed because he was impulsive and foolish. But she was killed by an unjust evil world. The fact that Grisha is responsible, and the fact that the evil world is responsible are both true. But Grisha can't accept that, and any potential sense of guilt and self loathing becomes rage at the evil state of the world. As for what the warriors thought they were doing... my bet is that the propaganda they were fed heavily emphasizes the "tens of millions of colossal titans will flatten the world" aspect of things. I bet they thought they were defusing a world-destroying nuclear arsenal that a North-Korea style state was using to threaten the world with. Maybe they're not wrong. Maybe there's an element of truth to that. After all, the Mare state said this project was a response to something King Fritz did. I doubt cooler heads will prevail after everything that's happened. ... I wonder if we're going to see a war with titans fighting triplanes and ironclads. And of course, on a personal level it's shocking that: Zeke the monkey titan is Erin's brother! I suppose this is the best way to set him up as the final antagonist for Erin. Eiba fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 22:23
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So all the Eldians who break the rules are sent to Paradise island to wander mindlessly and eternally to beseige the walls. Most titans are men because it's mostly soldiers sent to heaven, and I guess the tiny titans are actually children and teenagers. I think it was less hosed up when they were just deformed giants who liked to eat people.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:24
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Eiba posted:Wow. All our shifter friends are from Eldia and are told their families don't have to live in the slums and fear of being titanized at any moment if they do this little genocide mission on people theyve been told are going to attack Mare anyways . That seems like motivation enough. If they dont finish the job they'll just be captured and eaten by someone else.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:30
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Sub Harrison posted:So all the Eldians who break the rules are sent to Paradise island to wander mindlessly and eternally to beseige the walls. Most titans are men because it's mostly soldiers sent to heaven, and I guess the tiny titans are actually children and teenagers. I think it was less hosed up when they were just deformed giants who liked to eat people. I wonder what Ymir did, and if she has any memories of her former life.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:36
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Sub Harrison posted:All our shifter friends are from Eldia and are told their families don't have to live in the slums and fear of being titanized at any moment if they do this little genocide mission on people theyve been told are going to attack Mare anyways . That seems like motivation enough. If they dont finish the job they'll just be captured and eaten by someone else. That said, I just reread Annie's flashback before she froze herself. Her father said that he was wrong, it was too late for Annie to forgive him. She should treat the "whole world" as her enemy. But her father's always going to be on her side so he wants her to promise she'll come back. I'm not sure how that squares with any of this. It makes it seem like your interpretation of a more personal motivation makes more sense. Sub Harrison posted:So all the Eldians who break the rules are sent to Paradise island to wander mindlessly and eternally to beseige the walls. Most titans are men because it's mostly soldiers sent to heaven, and I guess the tiny titans are actually children and teenagers. I think it was less hosed up when they were just deformed giants who liked to eat people.
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Oct 7, 2016 22:42
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Sub Harrison posted:So all the Eldians who break the rules are sent to Paradise island to wander mindlessly and eternally to beseige the walls. Most titans are men because it's mostly soldiers sent to heaven, and I guess the tiny titans are actually children and teenagers. I think it was less hosed up when they were just deformed giants who liked to eat people. I think female titans might just be a shifter thing, both Ymir and Frieda's mindless titans had no chest, and there have been several titans with very feminine faces but the same ken doll bodies.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:04
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So we're missing 2 of the 7 shifters that were sent. Bert Ernie Annie Zeke + the guy Ymir ate is 5.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:25
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Kild posted:So we're missing 2 of the 7 shifters that were sent. Bert Ernie Annie Zeke + the guy Ymir ate is 5.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:22
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So basically Attack on Titan is about brainwashed Jews attacking a Jew island to take the oil within. That's loving deep. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 8, 2016 00:23
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Actually it's about the cold war with a dollop of paradise lost and a smattering of big naked dudes
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Oct 8, 2016 00:34
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Great chapter. It's an interesting 'origin story', with its own plot twists, it reveals both personal and political motivations, while not being super original it doesn't feel like a retread of another famous story, and as someone said before it adds a lot of context without invalidating all that happened until now. Basement delivered. Are you 'did they arrive at the basement yet?!! lol' people happy already? I was wrong with my own pet theory slightly inspired by Nausicaa of being our world's future where at some point biological weapons ie. Titans started being used in ww3 and then ran amok creating a post-apoc scifi setting. Instead it feels more like this is a different world, with their own tribes and nations and technological progress and prejudices, etc. Well, technically at some point Titans were created 1800 years ago, I doubt the literal explanation of 'deal with the Devil' so maybe I'm still right.? Isayama in any case avoided explaining the origin of Titans here, as even in the flashback their creation were already shrouded in myth for 1800 years, but I think it's something fair to do, as really the real origin isn't a key part of the story being told in this comic. Well, we have one important tidbit of info, it really seems a lost technology, exactly the still have the technology to create flawed Titans (mindless), and there are a small rest of real Titans (shifters) but only 9 in all the world. And somehow titankind is truly related to Elodians, when Mare decided to attack, instead of using their own people, they had to recruit Elodians to do it despite the risk of turning against them (though they took precautions, maybe that's why they took small children, to brainwash them). I also liked the concept of how having a majority of weapons of mass destruction (7 of 9 shifter titans) gave them power, but what happened is that they were entering in XX century technology and with tanks, planes and things like that, they knew the Titans would lose power, so they needed to secure a new resource for the future, oil. Like, you know Japan in WW2.And Iraq War. So which side are the good guys and which are the bad guys? I suspect neither, and I like it that way. Surely it's true Elodians were some hardcore assholes and that's why they were eventually defeated by others and the rest were placed in a ghetto, but at the same time it's clear the Mare side isn't exactly perfect (discrimination, ghettos, killing lil' girls in cruel ways, etc). In fact I suppose they were in the same situation as inside the walls and the history books told a truth slanted to 'the truth of the winner side'. And still at the same time it's clear given how it's told to us that Grisha misinterpreted the 'secret true history books' and his super-positive interpretation is also wrong. The truth is somewhere shown in this image  with several groups and factions, waging war some times and having peace other times, no side being especially innocent. The normal in human civilization, you know. And now that I think about it all this gives more sense to some past chapters, as they are two sides from 'outside' trying to get the Coordinate power, it wasn't all a monolithic faction. Things about Ymir's past, Annie's dad, Bert and Reiner reactions and instability (there was truly brainwashing going on which clashes with their years infiltrated), etc. What else. The start is interesting, there is a contrast on what Grisha wrote at the end of the previous chapter, 'I came from outside, where life is harmonious for humanity' and how this chapter stars, the part of the armbands and the warning about the walls is already ominous. The moment of his sister's death, though brief, is pretty sad, if the anime reaches that part someday it can be a powerful moment. And his turn to extremism and joining the Revivalists makes sense, while still leaving some degrees of freedom to later in the plot mature and change his personality, as we know it happens. Question, Who is 'night owl'? Daina Fritz or another person of the hidden royalty? It provided the Revivalists not only info while being infiltrated in Mare, but weapons, money, etc.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:35
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There's a horse titan in the back of that picture.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:43
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AttackBacon posted:There's a horse titan in the back of that picture. Hah hah you are right, I didn't see it before. That rocks.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:49
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And it seems settled that the mule titan is a being of his own too.
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Oct 8, 2016 01:55
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So, who wants to bet this little infodump ends with Eren staring for a panel, then declaring that "I'M GONNA KILL ALL THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS OUTSIDE THE WALLS!"?
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Oct 8, 2016 03:00
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Kild posted:So we're missing 2 of the 7 shifters that were sent. Bert Ernie Annie Zeke + the guy Ymir ate is 5. Grisha would make six wouldn't he? Or did he just juice up and hope he managed to chomp historia's sister?
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Oct 8, 2016 03:20
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This sounds like the plot from a Fire Emblem game 
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Oct 8, 2016 03:54
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Wellwinds posted:Grisha would make six wouldn't he? Or did he just juice up and hope he managed to chomp historia's sister? Here's the nine different shifters, eight of which are known: 1. Progenitor (Royal Bloodline -> Grisha -> Eren) 2. Rage (Grisha -> Eren) 3. Armored (Reiner) 4. Colossal (Bertolt -> Armin) 5. Female (Annie) 6. Monkey (Zeke) 7. Dancing (Marcel -> Ymir) 8. Mule (???) 9. ???
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Oct 8, 2016 04:23
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I don't know what to think now. I was only into this series because it made zombies scary again. The wider world is intriguing, though it doesn't seem well foreshadowed.
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Oct 8, 2016 04:30
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So it's heavily implied that this: doesn't actually represent what Grisha thinks it represents (the bringing of riches and infrastructure and agriculture via titan powers), opening it up to the question of what the heck it actually shows. For lack of being able to come up with a better alternate interpretation I'll go on a limb and say that the picture depicts some kind of Titan-aided interstellar travel. Those look like stars above the bridge, and a thousand feet up two disconnected mountains is a very odd place to depict a bridge as being, unless a 'bridge' between two mountain-worlds was a primitive people's best available understanding of space flight. A sci-fi bent might also help explain where titan powers come from, which is still up in the air, and leaves the door open for the bloody title making sense one day. Admittedly it's super out there but it beats the hell out of this 'it was just a bunch of humans being dicks to each other all along' thing we've got going on now.
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Oct 8, 2016 04:38
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Monocled Falcon posted:I don't know what to think now. I was only into this series because it made zombies scary again. The wider world is intriguing, though it doesn't seem well foreshadowed. It's been foreshadowed throughout the series with things like the cans of food with unknown languages that Ymir can read.
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Oct 8, 2016 04:40
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Monocled Falcon posted:I don't know what to think now. I was only into this series because it made zombies scary again. The wider world is intriguing, though it doesn't seem well foreshadowed. The premise of humanity on the edge of being wiped out was replaced with the realization that we've spent so much time in helpless ignorance. Just when our characters feel like they've gotten some sort of agency and control, it turns out their world is larger and more arbitrary, and they're as helpless as ever. It's part of the (fairly well executed) emotional roller-coaster of a long struggle for the dregs of hope followed by shocking despair that's been the core of this story all along. Now, part of this transformation is dropping something entirely new on us. If you were into the zombie horror aspect, and just along for the ride for all the human drama so far, I can totally understand this twist being far from compelling. If you don't happen to be into the idea of police states and giant flesh monsters fighting biplanes and ironclads, then this is probably not a terribly exciting reveal. If you've been digging the human drama though, just wait until we see our characters reacting to this. It's honestly pretty shocking and crushing and infuriating, and I bet we'll get a pretty well presented vision of that through the main characters. Edit: Erwin would have wanted to know this. It's all he wanted. 
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Oct 8, 2016 04:49
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It actually feels on the hopeful side to me, their situation hasn't really changed in a practical sense, they've still beat back the only force the outside world is willing to send at them, plus they know now that humanity is alive out there and that the Titans aren't as big of a threat as they seemed, and while it's now other humans that may be a threat, they are scared and limited by the fact that it's apparently possible for Eren to sic millions of wall titans on them and destroy them all. I'm sure they'll be pissed all their suffering was human-caused though.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:15
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Eiba posted:
I think I may have set myself up for disappointment in regards to this plot point. We did know something bigger was going on, and in my (ugg) "headcanon" the characters had as well and were freaking out about how the hell they were going to get anything done when the ordinary mindless titans were still reliably decimating the Survey Corps. But that's my bad I suppose.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:19
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I thought that there were 9 TYPES of shifters, not 9 total. What with there being hundreds of millions of colossals inside the walls. Unless there can be mindless colossals.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:32
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