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Attempting a collection of Leader Agendas with the additional information from that site: Teddy Roosevelt: Big Stick Policy - Likes peaceful civilizations that have a city on his home continent. Hates civilizations starting wars against a city-state or civilization based on his continent. Saladin: Ayyubid Dynasty- Will try to build Worship Buildings in every city, and likes other civilizations that do the same. Dislikes civilizations not following his religion, and dislikes civilizations that declare war on other civilizations that share his religion. Montezuma: Tlatoani- Likes civilizations who have the same Luxury resources as he does, and will try to collect every Luxury resource available. Dislikes civilizations who have a new Luxury resource he has not yet collected. Pedro II: Patron of the Arts- Tries to earn as many Great People Points as possible. Dislikes other civilizations earning large amounts of Great People Points and competing for Great People. Qin Shi Huang: Wall of 10,000 Li- Tries to build as many Wonders as possible. Dislikes civilizations who build more Wonders than him and beat him to Wonders under construction. Cleopatra: Queen of the Nile- Respects civilizations with a strong military and will try to ally with them, but dislikes civilizations with a weak military. Victoria: Sun Never Sets- Likes civilizations from her home continent, and wants to expand to all continents. Doesn't like civilizations on continents where England has no city. Catherine de Medici: Black Queen- Gains as many Spies and as much diplomatic access as possible. Does not like civilizations who ignore these espionage activities. Frederick Barbarossa: Iron Crown- Likes civilizations that don't interact with city-states. Dislikes civilizations who are Suzerains of city-states or have conquered city-state cities. Pericles: Delian League- Likes civilizations that aren't competing for the same city-state allegiance. Dislikes civilizations that are directly competing for city-state allegiance. Gorgo: With Your Shield or On It- Will not take unfavorable peace deals, and dislikes civilizations that take such deals. Hates civilizations that have never been in a war. Gandhi: Peacekeeper- Likes to be at peace (and will not receive war penalities?). Likes peaceful civilizations, dislikes warlike civilizations. Hojo Tokimune: Bushido- Likes civilizations that have a strong military and Faith and Culture output. Dislikes civilizations that are strong in military but weak in Faith and Culture output. Mvemba a Nzinga: Enthusiastic Disciple- Likes civilizations that bring Religion to the Kongo. Dislikes civilizations that have founded a Religion but not brought it to a Kongolese city. Harald Hardrada: Last Viking King- Builds a large navy and respects civilizations who follow his lead. Does not like civilizations with a weak navy. Trajan: Optimus Princeps- Tries to include as much territory as possible in his empire. Does not like civilizations who control little territory. Peter the Great: Westernizers- Likes civilizations with more Technologies and Civics than him. Dislikes civilizations behind him in Technologies and Civics. Tomyris: Backstab Averse- Likes civilizations who are their declared friend. Hates civilizations who backstab and declare surprise wars. Philip II: Counter Reformer- Likes civilizations who follow the same Religion, and wants all his cities to all follow the same Religion. Hates anyone trying to spread their Religion into his empire. Gilgamesh: Ally of Enkidu- Likes longtime allies. Dislikes civilizations that denounce or declare war on civilizations he has a declaration of friendship or alliance with. All of these seem intended to shape their game style. So, say, the dislikes of Gorgo will make her inclined to jump on weakened civilizations who've lost something in recent wars, but she'll also be inclined to drag, say, Gandhi into a war because he's just been sitting there. (I couldn't quite make out Gandhi's; the machine translation seems to suggest he has no war penalties, but whether that was for warmongering or just preventing war weariness I'm not sure.) The Hidden Agendas are drawn from a random pool, but there are limits- leaders won't get any that either duplicate or conflict with their Leader Agenda. So Qin won't get Wonder Obsessed and Barbarossa won't get City-State Protector. A non-exhaustive selection: Air Power- Tries to build up air power. Admires civilizations with greater air power. Dislikes civilizations with weaker air power. City-State Protector- Emphasizes protectorate wars. Admires civilizations that start protectorate wars. Dislikes civilizations that attack city states. Civilized- Likes civilizations which clear barbarian camps. Dislikes civilizations which do not. Darwinist- Likes to see civilizations at war, and believes in constant struggle. Environmentalist- Builds National Parks, doesn't clear features, plants forests. Likes civilizations that plant forests or found National Parks. Dislikes civilizations that clear features. Exploitative- Removes all terrain features and builds as many improvements as possible, dislikes players with few improvements and players who build national parks. Explorer- Tries to explore the map, and likes civilizations that have explored less of the map than itself and dislikes civilizations that have explored more of the map than itself. Fun-Loving- Tries to make the citizens in each city as happy as possible. Likes other civilizations that also develop in this fashion. Ideologue- Favors civilizations with the same type of government, dislikes civilizations that have different governments, and really dislikes civilizations with different governments of the same era as its own. Nuke Happy- Has no hesitation to use nuclear weapons. Respects other civilizations that project strength with nuclear weapons. Paranoid- Likes civilizations who pose no threat. Dislikes civilizations with strong militaries or ones with nearby cities. Populous- Tries to have the highest overall population. Respects other high population civilizations. Standing Army- Always tries to keep a large standing army. Respects other civilizations with large armies. Wonder Obsessed- Likes civilizations not competing for wonders, and builds wonders whenever possible. Dislikes losing a wonder to another civilization. Finally, in looking at the stats for each Civ, there's some interesting extra bonuses (like extra output on Unique Improvements at later Technologies and Civics), but the biggest thing that stood out to me was Arabia. According to the site, their ability The Last Prophet, in addition to its effect of always getting the last available Great Prophet if they haven't already gotten one, also gets +1 Science for each foreign city following Arabia's religion (so it's not a total wash of an ability if you get your religion earlier). Even crazier, Saladin's ability, Righteousness of the Faith, makes his religion's Worship Building cost 90% less Faith and provide an additional +10% Science, Culture, and Faith to a city's outputs.
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Oct 11, 2016 09:23
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Yeah, Saladin just looks better and better. Also like a complete rear end in a top hat as an AI; guaranteed a religion, and dislikes it if you don't follow his religion and/or try to convert followers of his religion. That said, following his religion is probably worth it, assuming his religious building improvements apply to his religion and not just him. If you're Kongo and Saladin's in your game, he's probably your best person to study under. And he'll be on your side if you're attacked after you convert; if you follow his religion, you get his insane buildings and an ally. Edit: Just remembered that Mvemba can't build holy sites, so he can't benefit from Saladin's ability actually. Whoops. The 90% Faith discount doesn't really seem too insane to me, in a way; if you're playing Arabia you're going to build them anyway, and again, they'll be really nice for other people to build too. The +10% Faith, Science, and Culture output is crazy though. I was expecting +1 or 2 points extra for each, not, well, that. (Well, then again, I guess that until you're making more than 20 of one of those things in a city, it is effectively that? Hm.) Gorgo's just mean, meanwhile. People who try to be peaceful are apparently her most hated enemies. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 09:30
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Yeah, probably got a little ahead of myself with that adjective, but if there are scaling costs on the Building then it at least means he saves a fair bit of Faith building something he might want a lot of anyway.
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Oct 11, 2016 09:38
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Either way, it's definitely nice. Percent bonuses will be a bit weaker early on but will get stronger than the flat bonuses as things go on, and you should have a ton of Faith and Science at least, given your bonuses there from other things (particularly the Madrasa; well-placed Campuses will be so important for Arabia). And that site also confirms what I heard before about the Madrasa coming with the Theology civic rather than the Education technology, basically an age earlier. That's nice too. Edit: Reading the not-great auto-translation of the site, it seems like everyone who follows Saladin's religion gets the awesome religious buildings, it's not a special thing for him alone. So, that's both good and bad; it'll make your religion more attractive to other people, but it also helps them considerably. That's neat, really, since it helps both sides but should have them wary too; Saladin wants to spread his religion but is giving his converts great bonuses, while the converts get what'll probably be the best religion in the game to follow but are putting him closer to a religious victory and give him more Science. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 09:53
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I've been paying just shy of 0 attention to this game since I didn't want to get overhyped... ... and I've been rewarded, because the game is coming out in 10 days and I had no idea!  Tell me everything guys, I'm so excited 
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Oct 11, 2016 10:06
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Farms get food for adjacent farms. Petra gives +2 food, +2 gold, +1 production on desert tiles. Chichen Itza gives +2 culture and +1 production on jungle tiles.
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Oct 11, 2016 10:13
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Catherine de Medici leads France in Sid Meier's Civilization 6.
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Oct 11, 2016 10:19
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Is it just me or is there some inconsistency in the leader portraits. Most look like cartoony caricatures (which is fine!) but then you've got completely normal looking mofos like Hojo scattered in there. It just makes everyone look even that more goofy. 
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Oct 11, 2016 10:23
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Russia would be so good with a different leader
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Oct 11, 2016 10:23
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Roland Jones posted:Gorgo's just mean, meanwhile. People who try to be peaceful are apparently her most hated enemies. And now imagine her with the Darwinist trait. 
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Oct 11, 2016 10:27
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theDOWmustflow posted:Is it just me or is there some inconsistency in the leader portraits. Most look like cartoony caricatures (which is fine!) but then you've got completely normal looking mofos like Hojo scattered in there. They do vary a bit, yeah. Hojo, as stated, is pretty normal, as is Saladin, though his nose is kind of large. Tomyris looks pretty normal as well. Some of the others are a bit more cartoony, and some get pretty silly (though interestingly Qin Shi Huang looks almost exactly like ancient drawings of himself, which is kind of neat really). I think it works, though; most are caricature-ish, some are just moreso than others. Cheatum the Evil Midget posted:Russia would be so good with a different leader Well, fortunately, they'll probably get one sooner or later, since Gorgo's all-but-officially-confirmed. Kassad posted:And now imagine her with the Darwinist trait. Ahahaha, man, that'd be awful, yeah. I wonder if hidden agendas are weighted or sometimes banned for different leaders. Things like Darwinist Gandhi would be... Well that one could be amazing, Gandhi trying to get everyone at war but never warring himself. but others just wouldn't make sense. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 10:27
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How do the legacy government bonuses get locked in? You have to spend a certain amount of time as that government type?
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Oct 11, 2016 10:50
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theDOWmustflow posted:Is it just me or is there some inconsistency in the leader portraits. Most look like cartoony caricatures (which is fine!) but then you've got completely normal looking mofos like Hojo scattered in there. 
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Oct 11, 2016 11:05
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Roland Jones posted:They do vary a bit, yeah. Hojo, as stated, is pretty normal, as is Saladin, though his nose is kind of large. Tomyris looks pretty normal as well. Some of the others are a bit more cartoony, and some get pretty silly (though interestingly Qin Shi Huang looks almost exactly like ancient drawings of himself, which is kind of neat really). I think it works, though; most are caricature-ish, some are just moreso than others. Presumably Nuke-happy Gandhi is a way to get classic Civ Gandhi. Nice and peaceful...until HIS WORDS ARE BACKED BY NUCLEAR WEAPONS!
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Oct 11, 2016 11:25
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Hogama posted:Qin Shi Huang: Wall of 10,000 Li- Tries to build as many Wonders as possible. Dislikes civilizations who build more Wonders than him and beat him to Wonders under construction. see if they'd done this in civ 5 then they clearly would've had the whole "behaving like human players" on lockdown addendum: gently caress, that gold effect on Monty's headdress is mock gold straight out of claymation. I love it. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 11:26
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Ahahaha, I just realized something: Contrary to what I said earlier, Kongo (or at least Mvemba) wouldn't like Saladin's religion any more than any other religion, because they can't build holy sites. Consequently, no religious buildings that have been superpowered by Saladin's righteousness. Welp, so much for that line of thought. Still applies to other people who don't get their own religion, though. Just not the most obvious conversion target. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 12:10
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Chin Strap posted:How do the legacy government bonuses get locked in? You have to spend a certain amount of time as that government type?  Correct. It's a permanent accretion, though the current wording of the implementation may be slightly confusing given what it lumps under Legacy bonus.  Basically, beyond a government's Inherent bonus, it also has a Legacy bonus that's partly a lump sum tied to the government itself and partly a smaller additional bonus that ticks up over time. When you switch out of a government, you lose the Inherent bonus and the big lump sum part of the Legacy bonus, but you always keep that extra you earned for staying in that government for however long.
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Oct 11, 2016 13:59
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Hogama posted:
Oh, you keep the (earned) Legacy bonus? That's really interesting and not something I was aware of. That's actually really nice; I had been thinking about how losing Legacy bonuses upon switching governments kind of sucks, so that not actually happening is good.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:03
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Roland Jones posted:Oh, you keep the (earned) Legacy bonus? That's really interesting and not something I was aware of. That's actually really nice; I had been thinking about how losing Legacy bonuses upon switching governments kind of sucks, so that not actually happening is good. And this is America's unique ability in 6: they earn Legacy bonuses twice as fast.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:05
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Roland Jones posted:Oh, you keep the (earned) Legacy bonus? That's really interesting and not something I was aware of. That's actually really nice; I had been thinking about how losing Legacy bonuses upon switching governments kind of sucks, so that not actually happening is good. That is nice that you don't have to think about the implications of losing it if you were to switch to something else and then back again.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:06
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Cythereal posted:And this is America's unique ability in 6: they earn Legacy bonuses twice as fast. Ahahaha, oh jeez, I forgot about that. That ability is a lot better in light of this, wow. It's not a flashy ability but my estimation of them has gone up a fair bit now. Chin Strap posted:That is nice that you don't have to think about the implications of losing it if you were to switch to something else and then back again. That's not a situation I personally figure will come up too much, but yeah, it'd definitely be useful there if you do that. And even besides that, you will switch your government at least three times over the course of a full game, with the latter two+ switches (since chiefdoms don't get the bonuses) being away from your current bonus. Losing what you had accumulated until then would be annoying and make changing feel bad, even though even with the loss the extra card slots and new bonuses would probably outweigh that, rather than like making progress. Keeping your Legacy Bonuses, however, changes things quite a bit, and makes said bonuses a consideration alongside the card slots and set bonuses, since they're permanent civilization enhancements. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 14:11
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Just want to mention that the reason the AI is so scizophrenic in the preview build is that there seems to be a bug somewhere that's making them value trade deals incorrectly. This is why they're so willing to declare joint wars, because unlike the other methods of DOWing joint war is a trade deal and can be bought for wildly inconsistent amounts.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:47
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Pedro II and Qin Shi Huang are never going to be at peace with me Also, regarding the AI making awful trades, in Enter Elysium's current playthrough he had Teddy Roosevelt offer him what amounted to roughly 720 gold for a single Sugar (150 gold up front and 29 gold per turn for 30 turns).
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Oct 11, 2016 14:52
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Chin Strap posted:How do the legacy government bonuses get locked in? You have to spend a certain amount of time as that government type? Yep, for every X turns in a government, you permanently get a fraction of that government bonus when you switch. So Oligarchy gives something like +15% to great people generation, every 10-15* turns gives you another +1% great people that stays when you switch your government to Monarchy. * numbers pulled from memory, probably wrong.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:22
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El Disco posted:Yep, for every X turns in a government, you permanently get a fraction of that government bonus when you switch. So Oligarchy gives something like +15% to great people generation, every 10-15* turns gives you another +1% great people that stays when you switch your government to Monarchy. I noticed that most streamers only looked at the policy slots when choosing a government, I can't even remember any of them even talking about the passive benefits never mind the legacy bonuses.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:31
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Yvonmukluk posted:Presumably Nuke-happy Gandhi is a way to get classic Civ Gandhi. Nice and peaceful...until HIS WORDS ARE BACKED BY NUCLEAR WEAPONS! I'm very sure Gandhi will be heavily biased towards Nuke Happy.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:35
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SlothBear posted:Yeah, 3-5 all followed a pattern of the vanilla having some significant issues, the first expansion being more of a feature pack, and the second expansion actually bringing the game up to par and being really fun. Whenever I read something like this I wonder if people played the same Beyond the Sword I dihttp://forums.somethingawful.com/stats.phpd. The minor patch-like rebalancing wasn't awful but all of the major additions were bad. -Colonial maintenance, ruining all non-Pangaealike maps if you dared play with one of the interesting (if not great) features added in Warlords. -Espionage. Just...espionage. Having to shuffle about and weigh fiddly little points just to see Demographics graphs, taking away one of the benefits to the religion system, and then the AI can just constantly sabotage your improvements and god help you if you decide to build a space ship. Not to mention the economy on them was massively busted: the first EP granting building is the Courthouse at Code of Laws, and then all in a row you get Nationhood (Nationalism), Jails (Constitution), and Security Bureaus (Democracy), Intelligence Agencies a bit later at Communism, and then nothing. Three of those are Renaissance techs, and one Industrial. Oh wait, I forgot the Castle, a building no one ever uses. Compare the smooth progression of Libraries->Universities->Observatories->Laboratories for research, Markets->Grocers->Banks->Supermarkets for gold, and Temples->Theaters->Cathedrals->Broadcast Towers (with libraries and universities also providing culture). And, of course, that those three tracks were slowly mixed into each other, leading to a smooth progression as your research developed from the beginning to the end of the game. The benefit for engaging in all of this? The ability to steal technologies. You know, that stuff you could have been getting through your commerce slider in the first place. Also, that's only beneficial to the person behind as there's nothing to steal when you're in the lead, leading to all that invested commerce and hammers doing nothing. Not to mention that there were diplomatic penalties for getting caught using spies but if the AI used them on you and you go and declare war then you still get hits for that. The AI's hypocrisy in Civ IV is well known, but the last thing it needed was another system to highlight it. Oh, and the option to disable it? Broken. Rather than actually revert the Espionage producing stuff, it just converts it all into culture and converts the GPP into typeless points. To make up for the culture conversion, the border pop thresholds are doubled. Except that +12 and +50% EP per city is not going to make up for needing 50000 more culture in each of your three cities to score a cultural victory. -Corporations. A twofold problem. First, for the investment of being the first to have a pair of techs and a Great Person, you get free stuff. Contrast how Espionage benefits the players farther behind. Which are we going for, here? Secondly, the corporations are dramatically imbalanced. There's a reason the base Civ IV religions are made to be as equal as possible, with differences so minor that it hardly even rates. And even then, the game's still heavily weighted towards the five earlier religions. Corporations? Not only are they all different, but the two best are up front (Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc.). Everything else is either sloppy seconds if you couldn't score one of those, or is useless (Standard Ethanol). Oh, and despite being "late-game religions" there's no benefit to spreading them around to your neighbors and trying to convert them: the money gained is minute while the benefits are large. -Random Events. The good ones involving choices and such are nice, but slave revolts and quests are dumb. My favorite is when I'm given a quest to build a bunch of Colosseums (that ever so useful building) and the rewards are useless, except for the option to take a free Golden Age...that I only can take if I have the Statue of Zeus. Newsflash, Aesthetics and Construction aren't related to each other and I didn't even know I would have wanted a useless rear end wonder in the first place (war weariness penalties mean nothing against the AI and the Statue broken as hell and often banned against humans). The one upside Random Events have are enabling a lot of Fall From Heaven's nonsense, so that's neat (and that actually uses them well). There's not really a major feature in BtS that's actually really good, so I'm wondering why the "base game sucks expansions make it better" narrative exists when Civ IV's base game was fine, and by all accounts Civ 3 was the same way.
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Oct 11, 2016 15:50
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IcePhoenix posted:Also, regarding the AI making awful trades, in Enter Elysium's current playthrough he had Teddy Roosevelt offer him what amounted to roughly 720 gold for a single Sugar (150 gold up front and 29 gold per turn for 30 turns). Hey, not defending the game because it could very well be a bug-ridden mess at this point, and also I haven't watched that stream so I could be making an rear end of myself right now, but did you form this opinion about that trade because you know exactly how hard it is to make that amount of gold in 6 and how much an additional resource can help you, or are you comparing them in Civ V terms?
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Oct 11, 2016 16:32
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On the flip side somebody bought a Relic for a 1 gold so either way something's wrong
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Oct 11, 2016 16:33
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Vorpal Cat posted:I noticed that most streamers only looked at the policy slots when choosing a government, I can't even remember any of them even talking about the passive benefits never mind the legacy bonuses. So basically Autocracy might be good for going "tall" early (in as much as that's possible). Its chief bonus is wonder production early, with the military policies helping you to build enough of an army to defend yourself without spending too much production. Or that's my best explanation for it. Autocracy doesn't seem particularly optimized. Classical Republic is better for building in general, and Oligarchy is better for warfare. Of course, the obvious choice for a warmonger is to go Autocracy first, build up your army with its two military slots, and then switch to Oligarchy for when you're actually fighting. Rexides posted:Hey, not defending the game because it could very well be a bug-ridden mess at this point, and also I haven't watched that stream so I could be making an rear end of myself right now, but did you form this opinion about that trade because you know exactly how hard it is to make that amount of gold in 6 and how much an additional resource can help you, or are you comparing them in Civ V terms? So yeah, it's a pretty obviously messed up trade, though I haven't seen that particular stream either. The game doesn't seem to be a buggy mess. In fact it's probably just one bug that's been causing a bunch of wonky behaviors we've all noticed if it is a trade imbalance thing.
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Oct 11, 2016 16:44
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If Civs are offering 1 gold for relics and 150 gold for sugar then it sounds like something is being inverted somewhere in the code in the trade calculations. Dunno how much work that involves!
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Oct 11, 2016 17:18
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Maybe that relic is cursed. Have you thought about that, smart guy?
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Oct 11, 2016 18:15
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Hahaha. That would be hilarious if some relics were -1 culture due to curses but you don't find out until you've got it.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:20
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Rexides posted:Hey, not defending the game because it could very well be a bug-ridden mess at this point, and also I haven't watched that stream so I could be making an rear end of myself right now, but did you form this opinion about that trade because you know exactly how hard it is to make that amount of gold in 6 and how much an additional resource can help you, or are you comparing them in Civ V terms? I formed the opinion based on watching probably more than 20 hours of it being streamed and let's played at that point. If we want to dig deeper, it's possible that Teddy was generating so much income per turn that the AI decided the single amenity would help it more via being able to expand faster and whatnot, but it's still bad logic. Just because you can afford to buy something at a price vastly more than it's worth doesn't mean you should. I also expect that Firaxis is using these press pre-releases as easy ways to find some bugs they may have missed or overlooked because people who love to play these games are getting to dive into them in ways they may not have thought of.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:25
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Hahaha. That would be hilarious if some relics were -1 culture due to curses but you don't find out until you've got it. 
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Oct 11, 2016 18:30
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Hahaha. That would be hilarious if some relics were -1 culture due to curses but you don't find out until you've got it. That is actually something you can do in advanced civ(the board game). Trade people calamities.
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Oct 11, 2016 18:35
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If you're interested, Washington Post Business is live streaming Civ on Facebook for some reason.
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Oct 11, 2016 20:36
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I may have missed the discussion (sorry, I have a newborn) but it looks like the Civ 6 Mac specs were announced:quote:Q: What are the technical requirements? I assume it doesn't need all three of those video cards, but one of them, right?
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Oct 11, 2016 20:58
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Peas and Rice posted:
Nope. This is the new recommended Tri-Cross Manufacturer redundancy recommendation. You don't want one of your video cards to crash while playing the game. Now, you have fail over. Across not only 3 separate hardware devices, but three separate driver sets. It's the new rage.
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Oct 11, 2016 21:02
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It was the "ALL of the system requirements below" phrase that threw me. But I don't think Aspyr's primary language is English, so I guess I should just expect lovely copywriting. On the upside it looks like the most basic MacBook Pro you can buy will run it no problem.
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Oct 11, 2016 21:16
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