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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink
I would not be surprised if we straight up get a genealogy at some point.

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Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
I'm on the side of whoever is against the Nazis, which may be Zeke at this point.

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
gently caress who knows at this point. we're in limbo.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Say Nothing posted:

I'm on the side of whoever is against the Nazis, which may be Zeke at this point.

In this analogy, aren't the nazis also now being forced to live in little nazi ghettos where the not-nazis let dogs eat them though? I don't think I like any of these people.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011

and that about sums up Attack on Titan

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Nuebot posted:

In this analogy, aren't the nazis also now being forced to live in little nazi ghettos where the not-nazis let dogs eat them though? I don't think I like any of these people.

How'd you come to the conclusion that the people living in the ghetto where the nazis? :psyduck:

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
guys its like naziism is a state of mind than an inherent ethnic property

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

Nuebot posted:

In this analogy, aren't the nazis also now being forced to live in little nazi ghettos where the not-nazis let dogs eat them though? I don't think I like any of these people.

There are no good guys in this series, except for the titans who heroically eat all the horrible people.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Elias_Maluco posted:

It is if your utopian ideal is an stable, 100% controlled society with no war or class/race/sectarian conflicts.

Like the walled kingdom kinda was before the attack

I don't know if this is some like "Isayama is a utopian fascist-enabling piece of poo poo!" post or just sarcasm but the walled city had 100 years of peace based on lies and an aggressive state security apparatus that would disappear people who knew too much or asked too many questions. This was never portrayed as a good thing either. The only positive that has been spun out of it was that people tend to prefer peace and quiet.

Seems like to me the entire story thus far has been more "Conflict and hatred between humans always spirals out of control and is bad."

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 13, 2016

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
So basically everyone is awful and even young Grisha admits that he can barely read what the ancient texts were saying but it was "Obvious" it was about their superiority.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

I don't know if this is some like "Isayama is a utopian fascist-enabling piece of poo poo!" post or just sarcasm but the walled city had 100 years of peace based on lies and an aggressive state security apparatus that would disappear people who knew too much or asked too many questions. This was never portrayed as a good thing either. The only positive that has been spun out of it was that people tend to prefer peace and quiet.

Seems like to me the entire story thus far has been more "Conflict and hatred between humans always spirals out of control and is bad."

There was also the slave trade and the entire underground slums that spawned Kenny's special brand of insanity. It wasn't very utopian unless you were rich or a surface resident who kept their mouth shut.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Nelson Mandingo posted:

I don't know if this is some like "Isayama is a utopian fascist-enabling piece of poo poo!" post or just sarcasm but the walled city had 100 years of peace based on lies and an aggressive state security apparatus that would disappear people who knew too much or asked too many questions. This was never portrayed as a good thing either. The only positive that has been spun out of it was that people tend to prefer peace and quiet.

Seems like to me the entire story thus far has been more "Conflict and hatred between humans always spirals out of control and is bad."

Im not defending it or saying it was perfect, Im trying to understand why, why did the king (or really the Reiss) decided to build those walls, forsake the continent and live isolated there, making everyone think they are the last humans in the world surrounded by monsters? There's got to be a reason for this, right?

It seems possible to me that it was some crazy cruel project of a perfectly controlled society, isolated from outside influence and interference and internally stable and united (which it wanst really, but they were trying). We dont know is that's true, but it's one way of explaining it. The fact that they call it "Utopia" (in some translations) might be a clue on that direction

And even if life sucked horribly for the low class folks, it was kinda working alright for the ones in the inner walls, at least before the attacks

Someone's idea of an Utopia might be (and often is) a living hell to the people forced to live under it

Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Oct 13, 2016

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Schwarzwald posted:

How'd you come to the conclusion that the people living in the ghetto where the nazis? :psyduck:

Because it's not clear whether the Eldians actually engaged in eugenics and ethnic cleansing prior to losing power to the Marleys.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


so what's in the basement?

also, have we established whether isayama is a fascist yet?

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

icantfindaname posted:

so what's in the basement?

also, have we established whether isayama is a fascist yet?

Grisha's porn stash and a copy of the Communist Manifesto

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

icantfindaname posted:

so what's in the basement?

A book by Grisha explaining a lot

icantfindaname posted:

also, have we established whether isayama is a fascist yet?

That's still an ongoing discussion

MeLKoR
Dec 23, 2004

by FactsAreUseless

Elias_Maluco posted:

Im not defending it or saying it was perfect, Im trying to understand why, why did the king (or really the Reiss) decided to build those walls, forsake the continent and live isolated there, making everyone think they are the last humans in the world surrounded by monsters? There's got to be a reason for this, right?

It seems possible to me that it was some crazy cruel project of a perfectly controlled society, isolated from outside influence and interference and internally stable and united (which it wanst really, but they were trying). We dont know is that's true, but it's one way of explaining it. The fact that they call it "Utopia" (in some translations) might be a clue on that direction

And even if life sucked horribly for the low class folks, it was kinda working alright for the ones in the inner walls, at least before the attacks

Someone's idea of an Utopia might be (and often is) a living hell to the people forced to live under it

Because for all that mattered they were the last humans on the world. From what we can gather they took over from the previous rulers but hosed it up to such an extent that they lost the war even with their titan powers. Imagine how many people must have been willing to sacrifice themselves to slowly gain the upper hand to the point they controlled most of the titans. How bad were things under the titan people's rule? Then when they turned the tables they felt justified in going fully nazi in return and will wipe out all the survivors as soon as they can make do without them. Everyone outside is hell bent on killing them, be they titan or human sized.

I think the moral of the story is that everyone with power is horrible and there are no good guys and that if they keep going an eye for an eye everyone will end up either dead or a butcher.

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Oct 13, 2016

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

MeLKoR posted:

Because for all that mattered they were the last humans on the world. From what we can gather they took over from the previous rulers but hosed it up to such an extent that they lost the war even with their titan powers.

Maybe, but that inst what Fritz said, she said that the king refused to fight

And it really kinda hard to imagine how the king could lose the war while being in possession of the cordinate power

MeLKoR
Dec 23, 2004

by FactsAreUseless

Elias_Maluco posted:

Maybe, but that inst what Fritz said, she said that the king refused to fight

And it really kinda hard to imagine how the king could lose the war while being in possession of the cordinate power

I would imagine that apart from those people that take the special serum everyone else becomes a mindless titan. There was probably a small number of active fighting titans (those seven I guess) supporting an army of regular Eldian soldiers. Since the coordinate doesn't work on shifters he'd have to convert his own people into mindless titans first, maybe he decided that he could sacrifice fewer of them making the wall and ensuring the safety of the rest forever. He accepted exile as punishment for their war crimes and a better alternative to slaughtering millions more enemies and maybe having to sacrifice millions of his own to do it.

In essence I'm imagining the people inside the walls like Japan or Taiwan going North Korea after WWII.

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Oct 13, 2016

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

MeLKoR posted:

Since the coordinate doesn't work on shifters

Do we know that?

MeLKoR
Dec 23, 2004

by FactsAreUseless

Elias_Maluco posted:

Do we know that?

I'm assuming otherwise the rest of the shifters wouldn't want to go anywhere near Eren. They've known for a long time he has it, for all they know he's been doing nothing but training it's use for the last few months.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Elias_Maluco posted:

Do we know that?

Well, when Eren commanded the mindless titans to eat Reiner, Bertholdt didn't suddenly get the munchies, but that might be because Eren isn't royalty. Maybe Christa would be able to, since those with actual royal blood can even use it on normal humans (minus whatever bloodlines resist it, like the Ackermans)?

MeLKoR
Dec 23, 2004

by FactsAreUseless
Maybe the Ackermans are descendants of Marleys that chose to follow their Eldian masters?

Bluemillion
Aug 18, 2008

I got your dispensers
right here
If Grisha's account of the Marely has them at WW1 level tech, they could be on the way to WW2 era tech by now. We might see an atom bomb at some point.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Bluemillion posted:

If Grisha's account of the Marely has them at WW1 level tech, they could be on the way to WW2 era tech by now. We might see an atom bomb at some point.

It's not like technology progresses linearly. It's entirely possible that they will skip the atom bomb entirely and discover transistors first.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

It seems to me that even WW1 level artillery could almost entirely wipe out an army of titans. It's true that rifles and machine guns wouldn't be that effective, but that doesn't matter when you can just turn everything into craters.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
That is the reason Marley is becoming interested in oil. Titans are becoming outdated as weapons.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
I think if titan shifters were the norm rather than the exception, it'd be a much different story, but if there are truly only 9 shifters in the entire world, then yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Big Boner Stacy posted:

Because it's not clear whether the Eldians actually engaged in eugenics and ethnic cleansing prior to losing power to the Marleys.

Even if the historical Eldian's did engage in those practices, that would not make the current Eldian's "nazis."

People living in Germany today are not nazis just because their parents may have been.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Schwarzwald posted:

Even if the historical Eldian's did engage in those practices, that would not make the current Eldian's "nazis."

People living in Germany today are not nazis just because their parents may have been.

I don't think anyone was actually alluding to that.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Big Boner Stacy posted:

I don't think anyone was actually alluding to that.
See:

Nuebot posted:

In this analogy, aren't the nazis also now being forced to live in little nazi ghettos where the not-nazis let dogs eat them though? I don't think I like any of these people.
Considering the modern Eldians to be Nazis and the Marley to be "not-Nazis" is really :psyduck: and only makes sense if you believe in blood sin stuff.

You really can't get much more Nazi than the Marley state.

Say Nothing
Mar 5, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

MonsterEnvy posted:

That is the reason Marley is becoming interested in oil. Titans are becoming outdated as weapons.

Did the translation actually say oil? It could be coal or plutonium (shudder).

Astro Ambulance
Dec 25, 2008

It said "fossilized fuel", so probably oil or coal.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Astro Ambulance posted:

It said "fossilized fuel", so probably oil or coal.

Or fossilized titans.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Eiba posted:

See:

Considering the modern Eldians to be Nazis and the Marley to be "not-Nazis" is really :psyduck: and only makes sense if you believe in blood sin stuff.

You really can't get much more Nazi than the Marley state.

What he's saying is if you consider the Eldians in the past to be the "Nazi" group and the past Marleys to be the "not-Nazis", the roles are now switched. He was agreeing it was hosed up that the persecuted are now the persecutors and vice-versa.

Nelson Mandingo
Mar 27, 2005



Elias_Maluco posted:

Do we know that?

All the titan-shifters at that point could sense/feel the commands back in chapter 50 that Eren was giving out but it didn't really affect them.

It probably doesn't work on them, and it doesn't really matter if it doesn't. Reiner had an imagination spot where he was thinking about how if Eren learned how to use it, he'd be unstoppable and they'd be drowned in a sea of titans. And he's right.

Ultimately I suspect Rod Reiss was giving bullshit out about the coordinate being a family-only thing. Probably just a carefully constructed lie so nobody would get the bright idea to take the power for themselves. If Eren could use it once, he can do so again.

Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Oct 14, 2016

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Ultimately I suspect Rod Reiss was giving bullshit out about the coordinate being a family-only thing. Probably just a carefully constructed lie so nobody would get the bright idea to take the power for themselves. If Eren could use it once, he can do so again.

I think it's more likely that Rod Reiss legitimately believed that to be the case, but his only source of knowledge was the king, who was outright deceitful.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer

icantfindaname posted:

so what's in the basement?

Nazi's. Nazi's all the way down. Nazi Titans.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Nelson Mandingo posted:

All the titan-shifters at that point could sense/feel the commands back in chapter 50 that Eren was giving out but it didn't really affect them.

I always assumed that Eren barely knows how to use the cordinate yet, so he cant use it fully

In this page, it clearly says "the power to control ALL titans"

http://mangastream.com/r/attack_on_titan/086/3727/31

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Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
Imagine if they mass produced the 3d gear and equipped the soldiers with rifles or grenade launchers.

The people inside the walls wouldn't need titans to conquer the world. They've already got superior technology to anyone else.

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