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Oct 10, 2016 14:29
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Oct 10, 2016 22:24
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drat that's brilliant. It seems like a very fair card, too. Lots of utility, but only gives you access to the colors you already have. It can tap and untap itself indefinitely, but the only way I can actually find to exploit that loop is decking yourself with Chronic Flooding. (e: vvvv oops, I only looked for things that triggered off something becoming tapped, didn't think to search for becoming untapped instead.)    
Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 23:03
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Lottery of Babylon posted:drat that's brilliant. Wake Thrasher. E: Also, it has a lot of similarities with Deserted Temple. quote:Reverse Zoetic Cavern is a neat design, also kind of reminds me of that enchantment in DTK. Elyv fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 23:10
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OK I'll set the deadline for this to be 21:00 GMT, in about 2 hours 40 minutes.
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Oct 14, 2016 18:23
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I rebalanced my second card because on reflection its quite powerful. Its a lot less elegant in its second form though ;-; Also bumped it up to rare since wish effects are basically never uncommons. 
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Oct 14, 2016 18:33
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I kept meaning to make a card but kept forgetting to actually find art, so here it is as text I guess Candelabra's Base Land - R T: Add {C} to your mana pool. X, T: Untap X other target lands. At first I had it only untapping basics but I think that other is fine, even if you do go infinite with two of these and a land that taps for more than one. E: Added targetting. Elyv fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 19:05
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Hay guys I made a land right before time up, check it out.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:44
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Thank you for for actually making my card look like an actual card 
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Oct 15, 2016 00:51
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drat there were so many good entries. I've collected my favourites in this post. I ended up selecting the winners based on the ones that made me feel most excited personally while also trying to think about what interesting things the cards would be able to do. Honorable mentions: Zephirum posted:
A reasonable take on Tabernacle for newer formats, seems like a good card for non-creature decks. I think the decision of whether you need a creature this turn may also be more meaningful than Tabernacle where you're mostly just forced to pay the cost. I wouldn't want this in Standard due to lack of land hate, but I think this is reasonable in Modern. I like the loyalty mechanic (suggesting Urza's power lingers even after death) and the overall balance of this card feels good. I don't think it leads to particularly unique gameplay/deckbuilding though. The fact that it's a repeatable on-board trick is also a bit of a mark against it, you can just hold it up each turn to make it awkward to block without any actual mana investment. I quite like this. It seems very powerful but I like that it encourages you to play multiple spells each turn and to build your deck with a good mix of sorcery and instant speed effects. You don't get the normal sol land benefits of slamming big drops early, and it's actually not trivial to use both mana from it. Seems busted in multiplayer though. I think this effect is super neat, and really encourages you to use your sideboard as a resource to make this card good. It seems like a good way to allow maindeck answers to linear decks (eg graveyard based) without having them be super exploitable like wish-for-spells often are. That said I think its power could maybe be pushed a bit beyond the second version - it costs enough that it's probably going to sit dead some portion of the time. I'd probably have it ETB tapped or have the ability cost 1 personally, and I'd probably even just about let the first one slide. Honorable mention just for the pun. The fact that it can infinitely untap itself is pretty bad though. Should probably be legendary and "untap another land" but that would spoil the joke. Straightforward and cool. There have been similar effects like Gargoyle Castle but I like that an aggro deck can cash it in on just 3 lands to advance their boardstate. Cool mana sink. I like that you can just charge value into it for later use and to help hedge against board clears/removal. Winners: Third: Rainbow Nexus by Lottery of Babylon This card is super neat. An ETBT Mana confluence is something a five color deck could reasonably play, and it also acts as a payoff later in the game by being a land that, while expensive, can end the game in a couple of swings. I don't think this card is super powerful but I can imagine it being a popular build-around in 5c control shells in standard. Second: Cliff by Lottery of Babylon The flavour of this fits together perfectly and I like that it has an unusual drawback for an untapped "basic". I think it would also play out interestingly. It's probably not a card you want on turn 1 but it can jump your team for a surprise lethal. You can also build around it to some extent with Ball Lightning-style effects. First: Sorin's Sexy Swingers Party by gangsines No, seriously. I actually really love this card. It's kindof a fun design for messing around in casual formats, but I think it also has some more serious potential as a "fixed" form of land hate against greedy decks. In a 1-2 color aggressive deck you could probably work some of these in, and then since you hit the board early you could potentially mess up the fixing of a slower deck with more colors. This might have been a good tool in something like the Khans/BFZ standard, and it gets around some of the concerns about land hate because it doesn't reduce their total number of lands and has the drawback that they can get their land back if they get ahead on-board. Compared to the other land-hate cards I like this a lot more because it seems like less of a shutout - instead it's a generally fun card. In terms of ~design elegance~ I like that the effect is easy to understand and that the card's downside (tapping for colorless) is also its upside. In terms of flavour it isn't something they could actually print but it is funny so hey. Congratulations black potus! Also shoutout to Lottery of Babylon for that one post with four lands that I really liked. I'll do another rough post with feedback on most of the other lands. I've been judging this for hours now so sorry if I missed something about your entry.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:40
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Note that as I said at the start I am using uniqueness as a fairly big criteria - if a card largely does something that an existing card already does that will count against it. As a general comment on lands that are strictly better than basics: I'm fine with cards that are super strong, but I wanted them to be strong in a unique/interesting way. Having a card that's just a basic land plus a large upside (in some cases an upside so large it would probably be overpowered on a tapped colorless land) isn't really interesting - it's just something that would go into every deck. Legendary isn't really much of a downside either, it means you will always play at least one. In general it should be remembered that land abilities shouldn't be costed as if they are spells, they need to be weighed against the opportunity cost of playing your land over a basic. On that note lands that don't tap for mana at were judged pretty differently because they don't have the inherent utility of producing mana. That means that situational/inefficient upsides that would be fine on regular lands aren't worth it there. Too strong: There's a cool idea here but overall the costs just seem too low. It already provides you graveyard hate at an "OK" rate and running any way to kill/pick up your own land makes it ridiculous (imagine replaying it with bouncelands or whatever). I think there should probably be some cost associated with the second ability, and having it only trigger when the land dies makes more sense to me from both a flavor and a power level perspective. Making the game as slow as molasses doesn't strike me as particularly interesting and it's probably broken if you deploy some cheap stuff before you play it/are playing Legacy Lands. I actually think the first ability is very interesting and could fuel some kind of neat land milling deck (like that minor theme in SoI block). The second ability is just poorly thought through though, even though it does fit well with the first. It means you get completely free mana off fetches. Also while I'm OK with cards doing crazy poo poo I don't think "turn two victory with two of these and Hedron Crab" is what you were going for. The second ability should definitely fetch the land tapped and should probably cost mana too. Dampening Wave attached to a land seems too good to me. That said I do like the way you can mostly only use it to frustrate your opponent's attacks or their blocks each turn cycle. Too weak: Consuming Abyss as discussed is much worse than storage lands. It's also mostly a land that just produces mana. The Hexmage effect could perhaps work on a land that taps for mana but this is an extremely conditional card, and since it doesn't tap for mana it doesn't have any of the upsides typically associated with being a land. Mystic Mongol posted:Well, if you don't just want to give that turtle the win, I've been on a Kaladesh kick. It's a pretty narrow upside for an ETBT land. That said it is sweet and I would totally have picked this in BFZ draft As written this is a weaker Radiant Fountain. I assume it was meant to be templated to save you from death. I'm afraid I don't get the reference. The general idea is good but I think you've set it a bit too high at effectively a 5 mana sink before your effectively ETBT colorless lands do anything. Also the red and white ones in particular don't seem like they'd be that good during the super lategame. Cards that I don't like for design reasons: This probably wouldn't be broken right now but I think giving a sol land with significant upside to an archetype just isn't good design. It leads to swingy gameplay depending on whether you draw the card or not and makes very ordinary looking cards busted. I do like the idea of a vehicle land but I don't really like the statline on this one. While Crew 3 means it's probably not overly good I don't like that it just makes a giant blocker that's basically impossible to get through until your opponent finds instant-speed hard removal, that would just stall the board if the card were playable. Making it an artifact would actually somewhat address this concern by making it a little more vulnerable. This largely does the same thing as Cathedral of War. I like Cathedral of War more since decks that are looking to beat down would probably prefer to have the land untapped and try to work around the color. Kinda funny but I'm not really sure what this does? Seems pretty conditional although there could be some combo with it. Skyl3lazer posted:http://i.imgur.com/i43B3qp.png I think this is too narrow to reasonably see play, you can't put that many Planeswalkers in your deck since they start at 3 mana and need creatures to protect them. I could imagine them printing something like this, although I really don't like cards that only interact with mythics and the response to Call the Gatewatch was similar. The balancing effort on this is reasonable but I don't really like the gameplay it would lead to. If you're ahead on board you get free value on top of your basic, if you're behind you get screwed. Planeswalkers always have that aspect but they at least cost some mana and therefore force you to weigh up whether you can protect them in spite of tapping out for them. Skyl3lazer posted:http://i.imgur.com/IyT6E6L.png Decent power level/design that didn't make it into a higher category: This is a fairly clean design but I don't think it plays out particularly well. It will generally just be extremely good on the draw and pretty bad on the play. This is a cute take on a combined Maze of Ith/Man Land effect. This doesn't do anything too different from Dryad Arbor but it is balanced and pretty cute. I do like that it can act as an early blocker for slower blue decks though. I think this is I think this is costed about right to see some maindeck play. Color-wise it's a bit odd that black can't do either of these things but I do like the use of off-color activation. Skyl3lazer posted:
While similar to Khalni Garden the upside and downside vs that card are both logical and a free body is obviously way more valuable in a slivers deck. Typically those decks are very color intensive though so it might have trouble making its way in. I appreciate what this is trying to do in terms of giving decks with fewer colors a way to push back against fast decks. I think it does that a bit too hard though, if you play this early it's pretty likely your opponent will never really get into the game. This kind of continuous prison effect is dangerous on an uncounterable and hard to kill permanent. Compared to the previous card I like this kind of effect more in standard as a hedge against lands that could otherwise be hard for decks to beat, eg manlands against control. It feels like too much of a shutout against fetches in older formats (which is where I think this would actually be played) though, just deleting most of your opponents lands on turn 2 doesn't seem like good gameplay. And as discussed before its on a land type that's hard to answer, particularly when it's immune to Wasteland from turn 2 onwards. This is a neat and simple design that I wouldn't mind them printing. It doesn't particularly excite me though, I don't think the payoff is high enough to build around it super hard. This seems fine to me, although stuff like Bojuka Bog has a fairly similar function. TWIST FIST posted:rather sloppy patch up I really like the model you've used for quests. The fact that it's just an ETBT basic for several turns allows you to do something super powerful with the reverse side. However, the reverse side in this particular case basically just makes it very difficult for your opponent to attack into you profitably because you can just keep trading lands for their creatures. I'd rather see a more proactive reverse side that helps you win the game. A land that creates Eldrazi Spawn is a cool way to do an ETBT colorless "storage land". It's a simple template for something that's normally quite complex and the flavor is cool. If it were just that I'd probably put it in honorable mentions, but the exile ability is a pretty ridiculous form of inevitability to put on a land and I'm not convinced that being exposed to removal mitigates that enough since it has 4 toughness (and is therefore a good blocker early on too). If the body died to bolt/shock I might be more willing to see it that way. This is a reasonable fixer, I could imagine this at uncommon. It's somewhat out of the scope of the competition though. The mana producing ability looks cool but this mostly amounts to a more fiddly/worse version of Reflecting Pool. It protects your manlands which is kindof neat, although I don't think manlands need to be any harder to kill really. This card seems well balanced overall but I'm not sure the modality adds very much compared to it just being 3 abilities. It does remind your opponent about your on-board trick I guess. A lot of the time it seems like it would just be an annoying prompt/thing to miss in your upkeep. Elyv posted:Candelabra's Base
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Oct 15, 2016 01:40
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(Alternate version we were discussing)
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I'd like to thank my mom, My theme: Cards With Downside (With Upside)     Downside mechanics are out of vogue at WotC but I like a card that lets you make good out of bad, and so they'll always hold a special place in my heart. Also I started in Urza's Saga and played a lot of echo dudes in my first deck. Either way, make a downside keyword that you'd normally slap on a dude/spell/land/etc. with a cost reduction, then make me a card that takes that downside and subverts it. It doesn't need to switch to full on upside, but I want a reason to play the card besides being a better rate than I'd normally get. Make me happy to suffer the downside. Going to give through the 23rd, Midnight GMT.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:15
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Everyone's playing colossus or marvel or emerge. Why isn't anyone playing Fabricate? It probably needs a build around. e: Oh, a NEW keyword. Back to work. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 04:34
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Making a downside keyword after MTG has been so nice the last couple of years is the hard part. People complained about Devoid just because it did nothing. This is going to be a fun one.
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Oct 15, 2016 04:36
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 Wondering if I should change it to, as it enters play but I don't like how that plays with the stack when it comes to instants and other tom foolery.  Maybe a little Overpowered, but I don't like the idea of keeping a 5/5 "defender" ( a skill that's WAY off color pie) without some kind of BIG BOOM! I gotta justify that redwins attitude.  The deprived mechanic is something that has intrigued me before. Not enough cards do things with hand size, and if they do they tend to be all positive. The idea was some kind of penitence for negative behaviors. It's hard to see with the card, but the point of the whole losing defender thing, was the creature is supposed to be an "on color" creature with defender who just so happens to get a nice benefit from having a zero hand size. JimsonTheBetrayer fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 04:56
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 Primal exists at least partially as a solution to a problem I see a lot of in Modern. There's plenty of hate for nonbasic lands, things that you can use to counteract cards that are especially problematic for your deck to deal with, and so there's reasons to not play nonbasic lands. However, that's not the same thing as there being a reason to play basic lands, which is a subtle but important difference.  Primary in green and secondary in red, Primal is intended for, but not at all exclusive to, mono or dual-color decks, and has some mild synergy with Devotion, as cards like Leatherback Baloth get along quite nicely with Primal decks.  Mana fixing is, of course, still important if you want to see Primal end up in anything except monocolored decks (which have historically done very poorly in competitive). It's a keyword that's technically a downside, but that encourages you to play unexciting but reliable spells with a solid and uncomplicated mana base. It's the kind of set mechanic you'd put into something you intended as a stepping stone for a casual player into eternal formats. Something simple to understand and easy to build around.  Mostly. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 09:58
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  Hibernate is an Echo-inspired mechanic, representing creatures that are very old, very powerful... but too weary to do anything with that power without an impetus. They'll go back to sleep after each turn, and you'll need to pay to wake them up again.   There are two ways to turn this into an upside. The artificial way is to include triggers that give you some value every time the creature goes to sleep or wakes up. But the more natural way is to print some creatures, generally at CMC 2, that would actually want to turn into 2/2's sometimes. Reposeful Oak is best viewed not as a wall that you need to keep resummoning, but as a bear with the utility upside of being able to block fliers or hill giants when you really need it to. JimsonTheBetrayer posted:Wondering if I should change it to, as it enters play but I don't like how that plays with the stack when it comes to instants and other tom foolery. Instants and sorceries don't enter play. On-cast triggers aren't that big a deal. The real issue is that Amnesia was never a drawback in the first place. Self-mill is good, and you know that self-mill is good, because you just made a card whose only function is to mill yourself. Hard Driven just doesn't make sense as a mechanic. The name doesn't match the effect at all, and "Fading + Defender" isn't something with an overwhelming amount of interesting or natural design space, especially if you're not giving them all death triggers. At the very least don't make Defender part of the mechanic; Fading With -1/-1 Counters would actually be printable. Deprived I can almost see working on a cycle of cards, like a sort of Epic for permanents. But they'd need to be more interesting than a french vanilla beatstick. It's still not really a benefit here, since the fact that this needs Hellbent to have Vigilance is little more than trinket text -- you're going to have hellbent just about any time you control this card and doesn't have summoning sickness, so for all intents and purposes you could just make it a 10/5 Deprived Vigilance and it would play exactly the same.
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Oct 15, 2016 11:24
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I would reanimate the poo poo out of this. It's like a better Iona.
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Oct 15, 2016 16:20
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Toshimo posted:I would reanimate the poo poo out of this. It's like a better Iona. That's about all you can do is reanimate it. Except for some corner case like RItual of Subdual, you'll need six Wastes to cast this? EDIT: also a Dragon that doesn't fly is weird.
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Oct 15, 2016 21:48
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Brainload Brainload was a keyword from 2005 that let more powerful cards have cheaper mana costs, at the cost of hitting yourself with card disadvantage.    Early reactions were pretty negative, but as time passed players realized that players would only rarely pay the full Brainload cost, especially on creatures--they were powerful aggro elements, because their opponents couldn't kill the creatures without effectively giving their opponent draws. While susceptible to pacify effects, there were few such cards in standard when Brainload was introduced, and in Modern cheap exile and destroy effects are much more common. Other creatures, like the Slaughterfeaster, seemed strong, but had too much toughness to be easily thrown away, without the power to be a significant threat, and often stayed for the duration of their load.    In other cards, Brainload was used as a timing mechanic--the player would get something good, if they sat through the load. Unsurprisingly, blue bounce spells were common sideboard cards during standard at the time.   Black got a few cards that were reliably useful, though, and these cards occasionally show up in decks to this day.
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Oct 15, 2016 23:10
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Mystic Mongol posted:Brainload Brain load seems like a lot of fun! I wish I had been paying magic during this mystical alternate universe 2005.
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Oct 16, 2016 06:44
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It mostly lead to drafts where both sides had enormous creatures with boosted toughness that couldn't attack through the other side, so instead of "Draw Go" you'd just get "Go". WotC hadn't really mastered a healthy draft environment back then. e: Come to think of it, wasn't that back when Dan Paskin's Red Deck Wins first hit prominence? Just a big stack of Lightning Bolts, Fireblasts, Jackal Pups, and Brain Lightnings.  Nowadays I know it's popular to say that giving your opponent a decision is a bad idea, but I've never thought it a good trade to let someone swing in multiple times with a Brain Lightning just to keep them from drawing cards. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 07:25
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I dunno, personally my favorite downside mechanic has always been Decaying.    Kind of ended up in the same camp as Vanishing, a mechanic where you'd get a creature for only a certain number of turns. Yeah, to be fair, the early stuff was mostly filler, with the occasional limited bomb like Plaguebearer Horde.     But then they finally started getting creative. Militia Camp still shows up in some white Modern decks. ("Wall of Duh" is still one of my favorite nicknames for a card ever, even if it caused a lot of fights about the whole -1/-1 vs +1/+1 counters thing.)  And I've never seen an entire table gang up on me faster than when I play my Formucor EDH deck. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 11:15
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Oct 16, 2016 14:38
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Don't have an entry yet, but I'm really digging the alternate Magic history framing device.
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Oct 16, 2016 20:31
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Poison Mushroom posted:I dunno, personally my favorite downside mechanic has always been Decaying. Not only had I come up with an identical mechanic, not only had I named it Decaying, but I also had a Decaying Undying green creature (without defender, it was the bomb) and a white flying decay creature that returned to your hand if it bled out (it was a legendary roc) and a creature that handed its -1/-1 counters out when it died, although admittedly that one wasn't to every other creature. I hadn't posted it yet because I didn't have a full set of examples and I'd just posted Brainload. Do you live in Philadelphia? We should be best friends. e: Here, the bulks. They're all re-imagined Fallen Empires cards.    And the chunky stuff.     Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 02:05
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Mystic Mongol posted:Do you live in Philadelphia? We should be best friends.  If Decaying wins, we should collab on the contest idea.
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Oct 17, 2016 05:51
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Yeah! Also Decaying showed up way back in the day in Dan Paskin's Red Deck Wins.  The whole deck was just a pile of lightning bolts, hyena pups, Fireblasts, and Decaying Lightnings. In a pinch you could hold it back for defense, but I never saw much point.
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Oct 17, 2016 06:46
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 Exhume cards are creatures that also cost a land drop.   
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Oct 17, 2016 07:07
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 The first of the five "Decaying" Lords. The Black decaying lord was broken, and is now stuck in limited hell.
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Oct 17, 2016 07:10
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JimsonTheBetrayer posted:
I feel like he's unlikely to get very many counters on him. This guy gets it! Ironically, this wouldn't make a good addition to RDW, because it can't be pitched to Fireblast.
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Oct 17, 2016 08:32
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 EDIT: Dropped the cost by 1. Torchlighter fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 07:08
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Forget - Yeah, it's basically just exile mill.   No pictures, but hey, I posted them! Edit: Fixed horrendous image sizes, Thought Eater got +1 cmc, and without paying its mana cost. Namagem fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 21:48
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Please use [timg]
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Oct 20, 2016 21:51
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Anybody else disappointed they never did more with Kickback? I mean, yeah, the first cycle that came up in the previews was kind of infamous for making the keyword look entirely unnecessary.     But they were a little more creative with the costs once we got to see the full set, even in common. Dragon Bait's mostly just languishing in the same "good RDW cards for bad players" hellhole as Browbeat these days, but it used to be a really fun pull in draft.     Was it just because the mythics? Izzet combo did kind of dominate the meta for a little while, but that wasn't Kickback's fault. They were Modern cards in a Standard environment.   I dunno, I just think it was a really fun mechanic that didn't get enough time in the sun. 
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 12:13
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The concept of Color Bond is actually part of a greater overall set that I've been idly thinking about in my head. The major gimmick of the set was that I wanted to print a cycle of nonbasic lands that were lands that tapped for a single color but also were also colored. Basic Drawback Cards:     Cards that subvert the downside mechanic:      
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Oct 21, 2016 20:36
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Poison Mushroom posted:Anybody else disappointed they never did more with Kickback? I mean, yeah, the first cycle that came up in the previews was kind of infamous for making the keyword look entirely unnecessary. with the possible exception of Obstinate Denial, I don't see how these cards turn the downside into an upside.
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Oct 21, 2016 20:54
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Elyv posted:with the possible exception of Obstinate Denial, I don't see how these cards turn the downside into an upside.  You get to pick between whichever of the two downsides works best for you, and some of them are pretty blatant mechanic-enablers.Focused Mind is a blatant Madness, Delerium, and Dredge enabler. Hell, in the right decks, it's a better Thought Scour. Hateful Demise plays well with "when this creature dies" effects, which black loves. Instinctive Violence can be thrown on something that you either want to suicide into the enemy, or things like Thragtusk which get you a fun effect when it dies. Or you can just use them as slightly-below-curve spells with a more flexible mana cost, if that's what you need at the time. It's build-around upsiding.
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Oct 21, 2016 21:08
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choice is inherently an upside mechanic i think the issue i see is that the cards have no tension to it, you're just making two reasonable choices, the "downsides" are just more text.
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Oct 21, 2016 21:14
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 18:27 |
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These are pretty good cards. And choice is always an upside; if a card cost R and had "As an additional cost to play this, pay 1 or five life", then that card is strictly better than the same card costing 1R. Only problem is that Instinctive Violence needs to say "target creature you control", otherwise it could be used as removal.
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Oct 21, 2016 21:24
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