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mabels big day
Feb 25, 2012

SeANMcBAY posted:

Agree for the non-dungeon stuff. I think the dungeons hold up as still being better than the other 3D Zeldas.

Didn't Miyamoto and his team purposely design Zelda 1 so you basically had to ask other people for tips to get through the game? I could have sworn he said that in some interview.

doing any kind of sidequest in this game without a guide sucks. the dungeons are fine though.

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The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

youcallthatatwist posted:

Looking at a walkthrough, it isn't as bad as I remembered, and I understand why miyamoto and co. made these choices at the time, but there's still a ton of bullshit in there that counts as terrible game design by modern standards. Like, in order to get to the eighth dungeon, you need to burn a single tree somewhere in the overworld. There are no in-game hints whatsoever towards this - not even to the fact that you need to burn a tree in the first place! If a game came out nowadays with a "puzzle" like that, it'd be justifiably panned.

This is all true. Measuring it by the standards of its time, though, it's a masterpiece, and it actually still holds up drat well today if you add perhaps three hints.

The second quest can go gently caress itself, though

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009

I beat zelda 1 when I was 6 and the second quest when I was 10. thank you grandma for starting the map that I finished

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




The 3ds thread was chatting about OOT adult Link & i got to wondering- if he was frozen for 7 years, how old could he be? I'd always thought Kid Link was about 10 - 12, making grownup Link more like a teen.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

well why not posted:

The 3ds thread was chatting about OOT adult Link & i got to wondering- if he was frozen for 7 years, how old could he be? I'd always thought Kid Link was about 10 - 12, making grownup Link more like a teen.

I think the "official" numbers are 10 and 17. But that's based off hazy memories of a children's novelization thing I had years ago.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.
Miyamoto said he envisioned child Link as 9 and the older Link as 16 but I don't know if that's accurate to what's said in the game.

EDIT: thanks Zelda wiki

quote:

In the "Iwata Asks" feature for Ocarina of Time 3D, Shigeru Miyamoto stated that in Ocarina of Time Link is 9 as a child and 16 as an adult.[62] This directly conflicted the The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Official Nintendo Player's Guide, which stated that Link was 10 as a child.[63] In the same feature, Miyamoto stated that Link is about 12 in The Legend of Zelda and about 16 in The Adventure of Link.[64] According to Hyrule Historia, Link is 10 in The Legend of Zelda and 16 in The Adventure of Link.[52] According to The Official Nintendo Player's Guide, Link is 16 in The Adventure of Link.[65]

At the start of The Wind Waker, Link is given the Hero's Clothes to wear on his birthday, which are to be worn by the boys of Outset Island upon reaching the same age as the Hero of Time was when he set out on his journey.[66] Taking into account the age of the Hero of Time revealed in the "Iwata Asks" interview, the Hero of Winds would be 9 years old when he set out on his journey; however, the Toon Link trophy in Super Smash Bros. Brawl,[4] the Nintendo Power guide for The Wind Waker,[67] Zelda Box,[68] and the description for the Toon Link amiibo on the official Nintendo website all state he is 12 years old.[69] The difference in ages can be attributed in-universe to the corruption of information pertaining to the Hero of Time in the hundreds of years that passed between the events of Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker.

Shortly after the release of Twilight Princess, in an interview with Nintendo Dream Aonuma stated that Link is 16 years old in the game.[70] According to Hyrule Historia, Link from Skyward Sword is seventeen and a half years old.[71]

PaletteSwappedNinja fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 15, 2016

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
I think they count birth years from January 1st like Korea so maybe Link was ten birth years old but only actually 9 as it wasn't his western birthday yet.

Electromax
May 6, 2007
Link experiences 7 years of puberty in seconds.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Electromax posted:

Link experiences 7 years of puberty in seconds.

Hylian puberty includes earrings rather than pubic hair

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Phimosissy posted:

Hylian puberty includes earrings rather than pubic hair

It's strange that someone also styled his hair, shaved his face, clipped his nails and dressed him in new clothing during that time.

Soul Glo
Aug 27, 2003

Just let it shine through

Part of the reason why I love Dark Souls is that it's basically the grown up Zelda I always wanted ages ago

And also because it's a really loving good game

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

s.i.r.e. posted:

It's strange that someone also styled his hair, shaved his face, clipped his nails and dressed him in new clothing during that time.

Eh, they were freezing him in place with magic so he could get older, I'm sure keeping up his appearance wasn't too much extra.

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




and not every 16 - 17 yo needs to shave.

earring is a real mystery tho

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

Ignoring this post

well why not posted:

and not every 16 - 17 yo needs to shave.

earring is a real mystery tho
Rauru becomes really creepy really quickly when you start worrying about who's been styling teen Link.

Guy Goodbody
Aug 31, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo

Runcible Cat posted:

Rauru becomes really creepy really quickly when you start worrying about who's been styling teen Link.

Just an elderly man who keeps an unconscious teen in his house and does stuff to him.

Blackheart
Mar 22, 2013

Was Rauru also the Owl? I remember thinking it was him when I was a kid but now I'm not sure why I did. I think it's 'cuz the owl mostly disappears once you travel in time, I think he shows up like one time after that.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Blackheart posted:

Was Rauru also the Owl? I remember thinking it was him when I was a kid but now I'm not sure why I did. I think it's 'cuz the owl mostly disappears once you travel in time, I think he shows up like one time after that.

The short answer is "yes, he definitely was" but "not officially."

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Phimosissy posted:

This is all true. Measuring it by the standards of its time, though, it's a masterpiece, and it actually still holds up drat well today if you add perhaps three hints.

The second quest can go gently caress itself, though

The above, but to the nth power. I tried to do a modest challenge run of the first quest not long ago, but I eventually became frustrated and did a completionist run. I enjoyed it and decided to move onto the second quest, and gave up fairly quickly. The difficulty of the second quest, having totally unintuitive mechanics such as using the flute on random overworld screens and the asinine placement of the main dungeon treasures made me lose interest quickly.

frodnonnag
Aug 13, 2007

Bicyclops posted:

The short answer is "yes, he definitely was" but "not officially."

I think hyrule historia made it 'official' that they were the same.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Bicyclops posted:

The short answer is "yes, he definitely was" but "not officially."

Yes officially, the gossip stones spell it out.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Regy Rusty posted:

Yes officially, the gossip stones spell it out.

I stand corrected.

swamp waste
Nov 4, 2009

There is some very sensual touching going on in the cutscene there. i don't actually think it means anything sexual but it's cool how it contrasts with modern ideas of what bad ass stuff should be like. It even seems authentic to some kind of chivalric masculine touching from a tyme longe gone

Guy Goodbody posted:

I only have a couple complaints, the big one being that there were times I had no idea what I was supposed to do next. Normally I'd be willing to chalk that up to me being bad at video games, but in this game they had Navi, Saria, and that weird glowing rock thing. The existence of three separate in-game hint systems implies to me that I am not alone in my occasional confusion.

It does have a problem with that. There's several times when you have a goal, but no clear way to pursue it, and the answer turns out to be that there's a minigame or side area that seems unrelated but actually unlocks the next thing. I remember being annoyed by that

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

youcallthatatwist posted:

Looking at a walkthrough, it isn't as bad as I remembered, and I understand why miyamoto and co. made these choices at the time, but there's still a ton of bullshit in there that counts as terrible game design by modern standards. Like, in order to get to the eighth dungeon, you need to burn a single tree somewhere in the overworld. There are no in-game hints whatsoever towards this - not even to the fact that you need to burn a tree in the first place! If a game came out nowadays with a "puzzle" like that, it'd be justifiably panned.

That one's actually pretty easy since the tree is situated in a passage separating two sections of a screen. The first time I played Z1 I stumbled across it and grabbed the magic book early.

Motto fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 16, 2016

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
Breath of the Wild seems to be shaping up to have nice ambiance as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IyjIMe2R78

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Xad posted:

Eh, they were freezing him in place with magic so he could get older, I'm sure keeping up his appearance wasn't too much extra.

Not extra, just really drat creepy.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

JustJeff88 posted:

The above, but to the nth power. I tried to do a modest challenge run of the first quest not long ago, but I eventually became frustrated and did a completionist run. I enjoyed it and decided to move onto the second quest, and gave up fairly quickly. The difficulty of the second quest, having totally unintuitive mechanics such as using the flute on random overworld screens and the asinine placement of the main dungeon treasures made me lose interest quickly.

My favorite bullshit mechanic in the 2nd quest is walking through walls. There's a wall that you must walk through to beat the second quest, but there are no walls you can walk through at all in the first quest.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

DalaranJ posted:

My favorite bullshit mechanic in the 2nd quest is walking through walls. There's a wall that you must walk through to beat the second quest, but there are no walls you can walk through at all in the first quest.

I'd forgotten about those - good point.

Guy Goodbody
Aug 31, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo

swamp waste posted:

It does have a problem with that. There's several times when you have a goal, but no clear way to pursue it, and the answer turns out to be that there's a minigame or side area that seems unrelated but actually unlocks the next thing. I remember being annoyed by that

Is that a consistent problem through the series including recent releases, or is it just in the older ones?

Gorgolflox
Apr 2, 2009

Gun Saliva
These are the kinda complaints that led Nintendo to create Fi

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Gorgolflox posted:

These are the kinda complaints that led Nintendo to create Fi

You're right, of course, but that doesn't mean it was the correct response.

Fi would be 100% fine if you could just turn on/off or adjust the interruption level. If you had to ask Fi for hints, any level of meddling would be acceptable.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



They're not going to design a whole character, base the game around her and make it so you can just turn off 90% of the interactions with her. Fi was terrible all around and really shouldn't have been a thing.

Silver Falcon
Dec 5, 2005

Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and barbecue your own drumsticks!

The one time I could have actually used Fi's advice, she didn't have anything to say on the thing I was stuck on.

The rest of the time, she just interrupts you to tell you things you heard literally 10 seconds ago, or points out solutions to puzzles before you even have a chance to figure out, or just really obvious poo poo.

Fi sucks and I hate her.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Silver Falcon posted:

The one time I could have actually used Fi's advice, she didn't have anything to say on the thing I was stuck on.

The rest of the time, she just interrupts you to tell you things you heard literally 10 seconds ago, or points out solutions to puzzles before you even have a chance to figure out, or just really obvious poo poo.

Fi sucks and I hate her.

I was spitefully gleeful at the end of SS when Fi goes on about gow she's gonna lose her power and never ever talk again. I think they intended that to be a poignant moment, but I can't see how you'd be snything but happy.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I was spitefully gleeful at the end of SS when Fi goes on about gow she's gonna lose her power and never ever talk again. I think they intended that to be a poignant moment, but I can't see how you'd be snything but happy.

Yeah, Link makes the sad face and everything and every player in the world was like "Take that, worst Navi!"

The list goes, from best to worst: Midna, The King of Red Lions, Tatl, Ezlo, Sahasrahla if he counts, original Navi, Fi. The Windwaker sequels probably have some that are in the middle, but I haven't played them yet.

spit on my clit
Jul 19, 2015

by Cyrano4747
eh, i really hated midna, its hard to take her seriously when she's making that stupid angry face

youcallthatatwist
Sep 22, 2013

Guy Goodbody posted:

Is that a consistent problem through the series including recent releases, or is it just in the older ones?

To answer your question more directly: no, it isn't really a consistent problem. In fact, some people would argue that the latest entries have gone too far in the opposite direction. Skyward Sword, for example, is much more enjoyable once you accept that it's more of an on-rails theme park ride than an adventure game.
Link between worlds does non-linearity VERY well, though, and it looks like the zelda team have finally learned their lessons for Breath Of The Wild.

youcallthatatwist fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Oct 16, 2016

Runcible Cat
May 28, 2007

Ignoring this post

Bicyclops posted:

Yeah, Link makes the sad face and everything and every player in the world was like "Take that, worst Navi!"

The list goes, from best to worst: Midna, The King of Red Lions, Tatl, Ezlo, Sahasrahla if he counts, original Navi, Fi. The Windwaker sequels probably have some that are in the middle, but I haven't played them yet.
Phantom Hourglass has Ciel the fairy, who's basically a quieter version of Tatl - no particular personality, but doesn't make a nuisance of herself. Spirit Tracks has Ghost Zelda, who is Best and Most Useful Zelda.

Rama of Ra
Sep 7, 2005
~Where's Sitka? Right about the middle of your thumb.~

Suspicious Dish posted:

Breath of the Wild seems to be shaping up to have nice ambiance as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IyjIMe2R78

I can't find it now, but I was watching a similiar clip and they sped it up 4x. You could hear the ambient music in the background was the Temple of Time piece, slowed way down and slightly disjointed. I hope that's a motif that runs throughout the game.

Thar she blows: https://youtu.be/PiAAJQ6ZMdY

Rama of Ra fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Oct 16, 2016

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

s.i.r.e. posted:

They're not going to design a whole character, base the game around her and make it so you can just turn off 90% of the interactions with her. Fi was terrible all around and really shouldn't have been a thing.

Fi is my favorite character to play in Hyrule Warriors, and I kind of hate that fact. She doesn't deserve to be as fun as she is!

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Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Runcible Cat posted:

Phantom Hourglass has Ciel the fairy, who's basically a quieter version of Tatl - no particular personality, but doesn't make a nuisance of herself. Spirit Tracks has Ghost Zelda, who is Best and Most Useful Zelda.

I think the Pirate Man counts for Phantom Hourglass. I don't remember his name because I only started it (I have to find a way to make it play on the TV so my wife and I can do it together). Ciel feels more like Navi than Tatl to me.

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