Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo again, I swear it's driving me nuts. I know they just babble it without having any idea what it means but someone came up with the word. What were they talking about?

You can't have fidelity without subsumption. How do you not know that?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:52

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:07

Dr Sun Try: May 23, 2009; Plaster Town Cop

MeLKoR posted:

Serious question, can someone please give me an explanation of what "subsumption" is supposed to be? I still don't understand what it is or why it's blocking AI or how can the missions be ready without it.

Chris Roberts ~~read~~ skimmed an article on robtics and didn't understand most of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsumption_architecture

A roomba is a decent example, it explores the house but isn't allowed to push stuff around.

MeLKoR posted:

But when the devs say "the AI is almost ready we're just having problems with subsumption" what precisely are they talking about? I think they even did an entire Reverse the Arse on it.

Their AI might be getting confused because everything is a jittery mess.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:53

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo is worse than Persistence. At least Persistence meant that you could now buy clothes, what the gently caress is Subsumption supposed to do?

it's part of the millions of NPC with unique lives and the NPC crews that will help you fly your ship, so basically the core of the game

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:53

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

tuo posted:

IIRC Bethesda claimed to use a subsumption AI in TES. Basically, the NPCs have their own agenda for the day, and are able to react to each other when they meet. So someone who has the agenda to steal something and then runs into the arms of another NPC who happens to be police, the police NPC will react to the burglar by trying to catch him. Another NPC might have the agenda to buy bread, but cannot do it because the shop is closed and start bitching about that etc.

Basically trying to fake everyday life without giving it a hard script.

Of course this will work with SC, especially when 1000 NPCs stand in front of a door, waiting for it to work, because no one gave them an algorithm to react to broken doors.

What the gently caress does any of this have to do with the fact the NPCs can't move or chose to shot at rocks instead of the player? :psyduck:

I swear, some days these people just tire me.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:56

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo is worse than Persistence. At least Persistence meant that you could now buy clothes, what the gently caress is Subsumption supposed to do?

The Subsumption Programming Model

Subsumption is a programming style in which robot behaviors are modularized into separate tasks. During each robot sense-think-act cycle, the tasks are sorted based on critical-ness and the tasks that are more critical can "subsume" or override less critical tasks.

I guess replace "robot" with "NPC AI"

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:57

Gerblyn: Apr 4, 2007; "TO BATTLE!"; Fun Shoe

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo again, I swear it's driving me nuts. I know they just babble it without having any idea what it means but someone came up with the word. What were they talking about?

It's a way of organizing AI tasks, so you can split them into sub tasks, which in turn are also split into further sub tasks. Each subtask is "subsumed" by its parent task.

For example, imagine I want to buy some food:

Main Task: Buy Food

Sub Tasks: Go to shops, buy food, come home

Sub Task: Go to shops
Sub-Sub Tasks: Leave House, walk to car, get in car, drive to shops, get out of car, walk to shop

Sub-Sub Task: Leave House
Sub-Sub-Sub Tasks: Put on shoes, put keys and wallet in pocket, walk out front door.

And so on.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:57

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

but this is star citizen so every npc is simulated down to its individual cells

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:58

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

MeLKoR posted:

What the gently caress does any of this have to do with the fact the NPCs can't move or chose to shot at rocks instead of the player? I swear, some days these people just tire me.

You're thinking about this more than CIG are.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:58

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Gerblyn posted:

It's a way of organizing AI tasks, so you can split them into sub tasks, which in turn are also split into further sub tasks. Each subtask is "subsumed" by its parent task.

For example, imagine I want to buy some food:

Main Task: Buy Food

Sub Tasks: Go to shops, buy food, come home

Sub Task: Go to shops
Sub-Sub Tasks: Leave House, walk to car, get in car, drive to shops, get out of car, walk to shop

Sub-Sub Task: Leave House
Sub-Sub-Sub Tasks: Put on shoes, put keys and wallet in pocket, walk out front door.

And so on.

I get it now. But CIG isn't working on any of that poo poo when they can't even get the AI to shoot at you.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 14:59

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo is worse than Persistence. At least Persistence meant that you could now buy clothes, what the gently caress is Subsumption supposed to do?

Two better explanations already so I'm a bit ashamed of this one

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:00

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Daztek posted:

but this is star citizen so every npc is simulated down to its individual cells

The fluid dynamics developed for the drink serving mini game was later used to simulate oxygen flow inside your space suit. Star Citizen: Unparalleled Fidelity

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:03

Mr Fronts: Jan 31, 2016; Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.

Star Citizen - Mining - Plan A

Daztek posted:

Mining presents players with a variety of challenges requiring skill and intelligence, whereas mindless repetition of a task and idle drudgery are explicitly avoided. There are no aspects of mining that allow a player to simply press a button and wait without concern for a result, or that require players to perform an action repeatedly without some element of thought and/or dexterity coming into play.

Ample amounts of dangerous situations are afforded, despite the fact that combat isn�t inherent in any fundamental aspect of the effort. The most valuable materials will often reside deep within a dense field, the result of less experienced pilots being unable to extricate them without suffering serious damage to their ship. Compressed pockets of gas, volatile materials that can explode in the presence of excessive energy (which is required in some capacity in order to liberate the ore from its parent asteroid), and elements that can explode when subjected to seismic vibrations as caused by repeated fragmentation operations all present their own unique types of jeopardy. While most miners will seek to actively avoid armed conflict, the reality is that any ship carrying a cargo of valuable ore will present a tempting target to less scrupulous types, rewarding those players that formulate contingency plans in advance, whether that be the hiring of an NPC crew member extremely talented with a defense turret, or investing a portion of the expected profits into hiring an armed escort or two.

Finally, multiple roles of substance are presented, each of which is referred to as a specialist. Every role can occupy the full attention of a player and present sufficient challenge to keep them engaged, or assigned to an NPC whose skills are commensurate with their monthly cost.

The Trade and Development Division

A trip to the local Trade and Development Division � the TDD � is often the first step on a prospective miner�s list. The TDD serves as a marketplace for the various commodities and other products available at a given location, and as such gives a good sense of what�s in demand and therefore which materials warrant the most attention in terms of obtaining the most attractive profit margins.

FREELANCE MINING VERSUS WORKING AS AN AGENT
When deciding upon a course of action, every miner has two basic options � working freelance or acting as an agent in the employ of another entity. Freelance miners elect which materials they want to procure and, after retrieval, set out to find the optimal trading port at which to unload them. While potentially the most lucrative, this approach exposes miners to the vagaries of the market, and if demand wanes during the acquisition of the materials the price eventually obtained might be insufficient to have warranted the effort and expense endured, especially if significant expenses were suffered in the form of costly NPC crew members having been utilized, fuel having been expended, or damage to the ship having occurred.

Miners working under contract for another entity remove most of the risk from their ledger, but in so doing often have to give up a significant portion of their cargo�s value in exchange for the benefit locking in a fixed price. Further, they risk a hit to their reputation if they are unable to procure the promised materials within the specified timeframe. The information gleaned from the TDD is of significant benefit in ascertaining whether the discount being offered is warranted by the security of a guaranteed contract.

FINDING A SUITABLE ASTEROID FIELD
Once a basic mining path � freelance or contract � has been decided upon a player must put some thought into how they wish to locate the sought-after materials. Asteroid fields containing ore of varying purity levels litter most star systems, but prior to a miner engaging their quantum drive and making haste to begin extracting value from the environment, they must gain knowledge of those fields.

To this end, every solar system contains a variety of information considered public knowledge, including the location of major asteroid fields. The entry-level miner often begins their career via heading towards such well-known sites, but as would be expected the most valuable materials in such fields have typically long since been extracted. The remaining ore of value is often spread so thinly throughout a vast field that its retrieval requires more time and effort than more advanced miners are willing to endure. Valuable new fields are occasionally located and made known to the public, often resulting in a dramatic increase in mining activity�and soon thereafter a drop in prices on those materials contained in ample quantity within the field as players rush to exploit the freely available resource.

Alternatively, miners may elect to employ the services of an information broker who, for a price, will offer the locations of a variety of smaller fields unknown to the public. While more reputable brokers will truthfully report the type and quantity of materials to be found within a particular field, there are some who have been known to exaggerate the assets contained within a field whose location they are seeking to sell.

The last and most time-consuming option � but also potentially the most lucrative for those able to master another discipline � in terms of finding an asteroid field to exploit is to simply act as a Pioneer and find your own. The Pioneer occupation specializes in the utilization of long range scanners and telemetry probes to scan huge swaths of space and find anomalies that warrant further investigation, with the end result that some turn out to be small fields of asteroids, occasionally with an attractive mix of valuable materials embedded within them. When acting in such capacity on your own � and not as an agent in the employ of another entity � the discovery of something remains known only to you. In such cases, you may elect to sell such information to a broker � with the price being dictated by the type and quantity of materials within the field, as well as the current market rates � who would then offer that information to others.

This last option � finding your own asteroid fields � has one variation that we expect to see widely utilized. Organizations may automatically share private discoveries amongst themselves, such that finding an asteroid field � or a derelict spaceship that could be salvaged, or astronomical phenomena that might be studied by an aspiring scientist, and other such things � would result in its location immediately becoming known to others within that organization but remaining hidden from the rest of the public. Thus, we expect that many organizations will wind up having a very vertically oriented and complementary set of occupations represented within its ranks, such that it can effectively cut out the middle man in many wealth-generating transactions and retain more value for itself and its constituents.

THE ORION
The extraction of ore from huge asteroids requires a very specialized type of ship. The first such ship to be offered to the community � via a concept sale starting today � is the Roberts Space Industries� Orion. It allows individuals to directly compete with the major corporations that previously controlled the space-based mining industry. It�s a huge ship, measuring 170 meters in length, and containing a variety of storage containers capable of holding 16,288 standard cargo units of ore.

MINING SPECIALISTS
The mining occupation supports a variety of dedicated specialists, each of which has a critical role to play in the effort. As previously noted, one of the basic objectives in the design of the various occupations is breaking down large, complicated endeavors into a number of smaller jobs, each of which can test a dedicated player�s mettle in unique and interesting ways. This encourages but does not force players to act in concert with one another to accomplish larger tasks, as you�ll always have the option of simply doing it all yourself � however inefficient that might be � or, more likely, simply hiring NPC crew members to work alongside you. There�s a lot of thought and effort going into the hiring, evolution, simulation of motivations, and evaluation of such NPC crew members, but that�s a topic best left for another discussion.

Pilot

The pilot, of course, navigates the ship. While this sounds straightforward, in practice it is often challenging as impacting an asteroid can seriously damage a player�s ship, and the asteroids with the most attractive resource compositions are often deep within a concentrated field. Pilots make the final call as to which individual asteroid warrants the most immediate attention, often choosing from an array of possible targets identified via the scanning process. They also determine whether to remain in a fixed position around an asteroid throughout the excavation process or to adopt a more active role, gradually rotating around a selected asteroid and thus giving the beam operator a better opportunity to find and extract valuable pockets of buried ore. Many asteroids are filled with dangerous materials that, under the right conditions, can blow the asteroid to pieces, increasing the value of a good pilot that can quickly navigate a ship to a safe distance even when the warning time is minimal.

Scan operator

The scan operator is responsible for injecting remote material analysis packages (RMAPs) into nearby asteroids that, upon success, immediately begin sending telemetry data back to the pilot and scan operator informing them as to the asteroid�s precise material composition. Depending upon the ship and its associated hardware, anywhere from several dozen to hundreds of RMAP-equipped manually guided missiles may reside upon a mining vessel.

Upon selection of an asteroid, the center of mass is automatically calculated and the scan operator begins the process of gradually scanning for a suitable RMAP insertion point. This is a multi-faceted process involving a search for a section of surface geometry oriented such that its perpendicular traverses the center of mass or somewhere close to it. The operator receives feedback on the angular difference, but it�s ultimately their call as to whether a given site is good enough or not.

Once an insertion site has been selected, the location and optimal injection orientation are displayed, and the scan operator may launch an RMAP-equipped missile. The missile�s thrust and guidance system are manually controlled, with the objective being to impact the asteroid at the precise point and with the exact orientation dictated via the previous step. The distance from the computer-specified injection position, deviation from the optimal angle, base material of the asteroid, and final impact velocity ultimately determine whether an injection is successful or not.

One interesting aspect of this particular effort is that the confidence of the scan operator plays a significant role. The more optimal the initial insertion point selected � which typically takes more time to achieve � the larger the error can be in the subsequent missile guidance stage and still achieve a successful insertion. More skilled operators, therefore, will often be willing to accept even a mediocre insertion site so that they may quickly proceed to the next stage, confident in their ability to hit the precise location at the specified speed and angle such that they�ll still be able to achieve success.

Beam operator

The beam operator is typically the second-in-command of a mining expedition. They are responsible for wielding the multi-megawatt mining beam generators affixed to one or more robotic arms near the front of the ship that fracture asteroids into digestible chunks. The beam operator has direct control over the output wattage, and is thus able to precisely control how much energy to dispense into a given area of an asteroid. This is critically important, as the injection of surplus energy into a volatile material can cause an explosive chain reaction to occur, with the total destructive force ultimately determined by the type and amount of reacting material. The beam equivalent of a sledgehammer, therefore, can be used to quickly excavate large quantities of inert materials, but a lower-wattage scalpel will be necessary when attempting to safely extricate those that may react violently in the presence of sufficient energy.

The Exothermic Reaction Detector is a status display on the beam operator�s control panel that detects the production of excess energy indicative of the fact that the mining beam is causing a chain reaction in some portion of the materials in close proximity to the beam. This information is presented to the operator in the form of a vertical bar graph plotted over time showing the probability per second of such a reaction growing out of control and consuming � often in a powerful burst of energy that can send huge, dangerous shards of the asteroid flying towards the player�s ship � all of the material in the nearby area.

Exothermic Reaction Detector

Mining UI: Exothermic Reaction Detector
Mining UI: Exothermic Reaction Detector
Every minable material has its own unique set of parameters dictating how much energy a given quantity can absorb, how quickly it can dissipate energy, how easily it can transfer excess energy to surrounding materials, its probability of fragmentation as energy levels reach critical levels, and numerous other things.

The average size of the fragments carved from an asteroid as the result of a mining beam being utilized, then, depend upon the amount of wattage the beam is injecting into the body, as well as the type of materials into which the energy is being directed.

As fragments are torn asunder from the parent body, they generate seismic tremors that resonate throughout the asteroid and only gradually dissipate. Some volatile materials are sensitive to such vibrations, and as such minimizing the magnitude of any such tremors is often of considerable concern. This is complicated, however, by the fact that such tremors are modeled independently of one another, with the sum total displacement caused by the superposition of the waves constantly being applied against the various materials within the asteroid. Thus, even a series of small tremors can present a serious threat depending upon how the waves interfere with one another.

Laser Seismometer

Mining UI: Laser Seismometer
Mining UI: Laser Seismometer
The Laser Seismometer shows each individual tremor within an asteroid, as well as the superposition of the various waves. It also shows the vibrational thresholds for any seismically sensitive materials contained within the asteroid, assuming that an RMAP has been successfully injected. Explosions that occur as the result of a seismic event are often considerably more dangerous than chain reactions that consume a quantity of material in a localized area because they will cause all such material within the entire asteroid to detonate, with the end result often being the complete destruction of the asteroid, and a pronounced danger to any mining ship unfortunate enough to be in close proximity at the time. Fortunately, such events are often telegraphed in advance via seismic activity growing progressively more erratic and tiny pockets of material prematurely detonating and causing the ejection of small sections of the asteroid into space.

Highly compressed pockets of gas buried within an asteroid present another distinct danger to a mining operation. Exposure of even a small portion of a gas pocket to the vacuum of space results in an immediate explosive decompression that can splinter nearby sections of the asteroid, send astronauts hurtling through space, and generate considerable seismic turbulence.

Analytical Materials Processor

Mining UI: Analytical Materials Processor
Mining UI: Analytical Materials Processor
The mining beam is equipped with a high-energy scanning probe called the Analytical Materials Processor that provides constant feedback as to what type of materials lie beneath the surface � within range of the probe � in the specified direction. Each material identified is presented on a horizontal bar graph replete with information regarding the depth at which it can be found and the approximate quantity.

Cargo operator

The cargo operator utilizes a console on the bridge of the ship that allows them to monitor a camera mounted within the forward-facing input port. From that vantage point the cargo operator can view the impact area of the mining beam, as well as the various asteroid fragments that are broken apart from the parent body and ejected out into space. The input port contains a powerful crusher that quickly reduces any incoming asteroid fragments to rubble and stores them in attached cargo modules for transport or, on ships with an integrated refinery, subsequent processing into their purified elemental forms.

The cargo operator directs a targeting cursor towards fragments of interest, with an integrated Fragment Scanner � similar to the Analytical Materials Processor utilized by the beam operator � providing immediate feedback in regard to the fragment�s precise composition. In this manner, the operator is able to get a quick sense as to the relative value of the fragment, and whether it is worth attempting to guide it into the input port, or whether it contains so little of value that it�s best avoided so as to preserve precious cargo space or time-consuming refining effort. The Fragment Scanner also displays the object�s mass, trajectory, and velocity.

The cargo operator controls attractor and repulsor beam generators typically mounted just within or outside the input port, and the magnitude of the force generated by each can be precisely controlled so as to allow for intricate modification and control of a fragment�s trajectory. The cargo operator�s display allows for a variable magnification zoom, which is necessary since attractive and repulsive forces are applied at the precise location denoted by the target cursor. Application of force to a fragment�s extremity, then, will typically result in generating a rotation on the object rather than any significant change in its direction. Thus, considerable skill � including the ability to quickly estimate an object�s approximate center of mass � is required in order to efficiently apply forces and guide fragments along the desired path.

Refinery operator

The position of refinery operator only exists on mining ships that contain an integrated refinery. Refineries allow raw ore to be gradually converted into their purified component forms, with the undesirable elements being ejected back out into space in the form of dust. Purified materials consume a small fraction of the storage space of their unrefined counterparts, which is of particular concern when dealing with low quality asteroid fields that possess valuable elements only in a highly diffused form, or when attempting to minimize the number of return trips back to a trading or storage facility. The refinery operator controls the routing of ore to a variety of specialized processing units, each of which has a different role to play in the separation of one material from another. Operator errors in the refinement process can cause sensitive equipment to fail, stalling the conversion process and costing valuable time until the affected item is replaced, typically with a surplus part stored in the ship�s inventory.

All of the aforementioned specialist positions may be helmed by either a player or an NPC, with more experienced NPCs performing their duties in superior fashion, but usually at the expense of demanding a higher monthly salary.

Selling Your Cargo

The final step in the mining process is converting your meticulously collected ore or refined materials into payment for your efforts.

If you accepted a job, you�ll want to return to the agent that hired you and complete the transaction, resulting in your account being credited for the promised amount and a bump in your reputation for successfully completing the task. The agent will only purchase the specific type and quantity of materials that you promised to deliver, though, so you�ll likely want to head to the local TDD to convert any surplus materials into credits.

For players that elected to operate as freelance miners, the path is often a bit less clear. Different TDDs at different landing zones may offer dramatically different prices, so you�ll often want to do a bit of due diligence and ensure that you�re not leaving any money on the table by quickly accepting whatever�s being offered at the closest landing zone. The really significant scores, though, are often made by extracting a common material of limited value in one star system, and then transporting it to another where it�s in shortly supply and the prices are much higher. It�s your choice as to whether you want to operate exclusively as a miner, or do double duty as a transport freighter by lugging your own valuable cargo across the galaxy, and whether the risks you�ll face in that endeavor � as you get ever closer to an area where your material is highly valued, you�ll become a much more tempting target � are justified by the richer potential payday.

One last option that some miners might wish to undertake is related to speculation. If you�re inclined to gamble, some landing zones will offer storage facilities that you can purchase on a monthly basis. Rather than selling your cargo immediately, you might wish to hold on to it, with the hope or expectation that � perhaps as a result of actions you�re planning to initiate with the aid of your organization � prices might rise significantly in the near future.

Star Citizen - Mining - Plan B

There will be no game in which to mine. Sorry.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:05

ripptide: Jul 28, 2016

Pilz posted:

Isn't that kind of boring? Guess that can be said for any game's optimal moneymaking strategies.

You're right, pretty any of the early money making strategies has a certain level of grindiness to them. The part I like tho is once you get thru that and get enough credits to outfit a decent ship, you can leave it behind to a degree and concentrate on something like deep space exploring, mining, passenger hauling, bounty hunting, long distance trading etc. Still going to be grindy to a degree, but any game like this is always going to have an aspect of that.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:08

Mr Fronts: Jan 31, 2016; Yo! The Mafia supports you. But don't tell no one. Spread the word.

MeLKoR posted:

This poo poo again, I swear it's driving me nuts. I know they just babble it without having any idea what it means but someone came up with the word. What were they talking about?

Also, "persumption" is when AI remember that the pants they purchased from General Persistent Pants Co. are still in their inventory.

It's groundbreaking.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:10

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Star Citizen will really begin to deliver when CIG starts working on Subsistence.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:13

Gerblyn: Apr 4, 2007; "TO BATTLE!"; Fun Shoe

MeLKoR posted:

I get it now. But CIG isn't working on any of that poo poo when they can't even get the AI to shoot at you.

If they are working on it, I've yet to see any evidence of it actually doing anything. What they've promised is shockingly ambitious, simulating the life cycle of an individual going about their life in a simulated world (like you have in the Sims) is already a tricky task, doing it for 1000s of individuals at once, all of whom can interact with each other as well as a complex simulated economy, is madness.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:17

PhallicPhalanges: Jun 9, 2015; Her navel is all time musky... Bt look at her face... Her face makes my ROD wakes

tuo posted:

IIRC Bethesda claimed to use a subsumption AI in TES. Basically, the NPCs have their own agenda for the day, and are able to react to each other when they meet. So someone who has the agenda to steal something and then runs into the arms of another NPC who happens to be police, the police NPC will react to the burglar by trying to catch him. Another NPC might have the agenda to buy bread, but cannot do it because the shop is closed and start bitching about that etc.

Basically trying to fake everyday life without giving it a hard script.

Of course this will work with SC, especially when 1000 NPCs stand in front of a door, waiting for it to work, because no one gave them an algorithm to react to broken doors.

Thanks for the explanation. I have also been confused by this subsumption talk for awhile.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:17

SpaceCurtisLeMay: Sep 30, 2016; We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

tuo posted:

When it gets boring, you should have enough money to fit a decent bounty hunter ship and go to Haz-RES sites, where no police helps you and you are on your own.

When this gets boring, you should have enough money (and maybe rank if you do missions to advance it in between) to comfortably fight in conflict zones.

And when this gets boring, you realize that without an engineered ship, you might have problems in PvP, so you start grinding engineering stuff.

When this gets boring...etc. etc. etc.

In the end, you end up at Sag A* anyway sooner or later, for one reason or another.

Good way to put it. Only two times I ever felt the game was "grindy" was due to me making it so as I was close to being Elite in Trading & to get the rank to buy a cutter and I had about a week to do it before we started harvesting and I wanted to have those two things done before 2.2 dropped. Although we did end up finishing the harvest before 2.2 dropped, but with weather, etc. you never know.

I admit I built a "simming" area, but it's just a U-shaped desk built from 2x4's and plywood so I would have a place to mount my HOTAS & Flight Sim yoke. Oh and have room for the small coffee pot. But I have a $2500 general aviation mock up that I used to try to practice for IFR & to keep cross country navigation skills sharp using flight sims when AVGAS was $7 a gallon. I really wish the DA-40TDI's were FAA certified...I'd love a plane that burned 6 gallons an hour rather than 10.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:19

Oleyo: Mar 28, 2016

Wrecked Angle posted:

Yeah, there is stuff you could do, but introducing all that stuff and giving value to those roles then means that those encounters need to happen frequently enough to justify that person's existence. And you still have the problem of exactly how the player interacts to do all these actions. Some crummy mini-game that you get bored of within 5 minutes?

Being ancillary to someone else's gameplay is just never going to be as fun or engaging as just having your own gameplay for yourself. You're still sitting on someone else's ship waiting for a certain condition to happen so that you can click a few buttons and improve the ship performance for them.

I'm not saying it's impossible to design systems that value having multiple real players aboard a single ship and giving them all purpose, I'm am saying it's very, very difficult and we frequently see CIG gently caress up much simpler things like.. I dunno, gun sights and doors.

What?! Don't lie! You know you want to stoop over your engine output display, scanning for hours for any hiccup in performance, as your sperg commander paces his deck with hands folded behind his back, occasionally nodding magnanimously at the underlings. If you work hard you may be called for to push the powerplant to 110%, but only with proper authorization from your overlo- erm, commander, of course.

Who wouldn't?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:22

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

Breaking bird news for cobblers

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/14/bow-tie-wearing-duck-walks-into-pub-drinks-pint-fights-dog-loses_n_8291582.html

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:23

Pilz: Jul 25, 2016; Grimey Drawer

tuo posted:

This, exactly.

IMHO, the biggest flaw with E:D is the early game.

To be honest that whole shitshow with "HORIZONS IS A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" has made me wary of Elite. That, and complaints about the amount of content that some friends of mine had when they tried it. Do you kind of need a HOTAS to play or can you mouse and keyboard it up?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:25

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Gerblyn posted:

If they are working on it, I've yet to see any evidence of it actually doing anything. What they've promised is shockingly ambitious, simulating the life cycle of an individual going about their life in a simulated world (like you have in the Sims) is already a tricky task, doing it for 1000s of individuals at once, all of whom can interact with each other as well as a complex simulated economy, is madness.

Agreed, but that's not what's keeping Squadron 42 back. The AI can't even shoot at the player. For that matter was it ever determined with certainty if the pirate ships in game at the moment do anything other than circle around waiting for someone to shoot at them?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:25

ripptide: Jul 28, 2016

orcane posted:

Python has fake wood paneling in the cockpit. Anaconda has orange rubber floors and cables hanging from the ceiling.

At least none of them come with a hot tub......

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:27

Oleyo: Mar 28, 2016

peter gabriel posted:

My entire multi crew experience so far has been me turning off a chariots shields and power so it blows up taking its owner with it.
Complete success so far I don't know why people are complaining.

That's makes me think, actually: Who of these people is going to trust a human to man their stations and enact all of their whims? It's gonna be NPC's all day, erry day.

Considering how terrified most are of PVP and griefing, there is no way they will trust humans to be inside the chariot with them.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:27

Quavers: Feb 26, 2016; You clearly don't understand game development

Good news from INN:

Social Module �Subsumption� Update

Social module will be filled with intelligent NPCs going about their lives.
This update will add the second environment to Social module which will be the Levski landing zone on the asteroid Delamar in the system Nyx.

I�m fairly confident in saying that the above updates will arrive before the end of the year. Tony Zurovec mentioned that he was targeting November or so for Subsumption. He and Chris both also mentioned that they will be on a fairly regular update schedule for the next little while. However, things can change and plans can be disrupted easily in game development.

Oh, that was November 2015. Sorry. We already have Subsumption, it's in the game now! :toot:

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:27

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Anything good happen on the last 100 pages or so?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:32

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

darkarchon posted:

Anything good happen on the last 100 pages or so?

do you like boxes and box related humor ?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:35

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

darkarchon posted:

Anything good happen on the last 100 pages or so?

Marching Powder had numerous meltdowns about people making jokes in the Star Citizen: Serious talk only to avoid upsetting valuable poster Marching Powder thread

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:36

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

darkarchon posted:

Anything good happen on the last 100 pages or so?

A priceless historical artifact was uncovered and is in the process of being secured for the Library of Congress.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:37

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

Oh no! A JOKE!

Don't worry Marching Powder, I got your back. Here's a picture of two cats in a barrel to calm you down.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:39

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

The one on the left's name is Phillip.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:40

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

Pilz posted:

To be honest that whole shitshow with "HORIZONS IS A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" has made me wary of Elite.

You know all that groundbreaking planetary procedural technology that Chris Roberts pretends to be doing?

Well Braben actually did it. He just didn't do it for free. Deal.

edit: cross posted from the elite thread.

Dante80 posted:

Gathering some screenshots from around the web for the 2.2 ground enhancements. Looks pretty good.

tooterfish fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 17, 2016

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:42

best bale: Jul 4, 2007; Lipstick Apathy

Pilz posted:

To be honest that whole shitshow with "HORIZONS IS A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" has made me wary of Elite. That, and complaints about the amount of content that some friends of mine had when they tried it. Do you kind of need a HOTAS to play or can you mouse and keyboard it up?

While I'm sure it's fun to play with, you don't need a HOTAS. I rocked a PS3 controller and was fine. For those interested in elite, check out the goon "diamond frogs" thread in games. It's full of goons ready to help you out.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:46

Pilz: Jul 25, 2016; Grimey Drawer

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Compare it to the Anaconda or Python in Elite. In terms of size it's about the same length as an Anaconda.

It's literally just a ship from Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn:

Pilz fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 17, 2016

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:50

Oleyo: Mar 28, 2016

orcinus posted:

Oh my.

It's the Cross of Coronado?

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:50

SpaceCurtisLeMay: Sep 30, 2016; We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Pilz posted:

To be honest that whole shitshow with "HORIZONS IS A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" has made me wary of Elite. That, and complaints about the amount of content that some friends of mine had when they tried it. Do you kind of need a HOTAS to play or can you mouse and keyboard it up?

HOTAS > Gamepad > MKB

But it is competitive on all the above control types. Biggest hang up most MKB users I know have is the game is designed like flight controls favoring pitch/roll instead of FPS style pitch/yaw on the X/Y axis. Horizons was the first time FDEV tried doing an expansion/DLC on their own without a publisher, but I think they've learned the lessons there. Main thing about FDEV now is with the upcoming release of Planet Coaster, which has the potential to sell more units than Elite, is that they will now have multiple self-published titles. They won't be a studio that will sink or swim based on one title.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:55

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Pilz posted:

To be honest that whole shitshow with "HORIZONS IS A COMPLETELY NEW GAME" has made me wary of Elite. That, and complaints about the amount of content that some friends of mine had when they tried it. Do you kind of need a HOTAS to play or can you mouse and keyboard it up?

I like it to dip in and out of now and then in VR.
It doesn't grab me enough to play it often, some people play it daily and that's just not how I enjoy it. How I do enjoy it is a monthly session flying around exploring in VR with no set goals and just stopping if I see something cool or interesting.
That works for me as I don't burn out and generally Frontier have added something cool and new to do. I have a pimped Vulture and don't feel the need for much more tbh.

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:56

Madcosby: Mar 4, 2003; by FactsAreUseless

wow 50 pages of nothing

yall should write star citizen patch notes

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:57

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

Xaerael posted:

Marching Powder had numerous meltdowns about people making jokes in the Star Citizen: Serious talk only to avoid upsetting valuable poster Marching Powder thread

[in increasingly high pitched voice] He's melting down guy, guys, he's mad and melting down!

# ? Oct 17, 2016 15:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:07

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Pilz posted:

It's literally just a ship from Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn:

[timg] http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/d/d8/Garencieres.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141021025919 [/timg]

# ? Oct 17, 2016 16:00

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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