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American Politic 101: A successful politician always lie to people because people are irrational mess of hatred and politic is an art of redirection people's anger at certain group or person like another race, religion, witch, etc. for every bad things that happen to the citizen or as a result of bad decisions by the politician.
Nyaa fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 19:53
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Facebook Aunt posted:People are mad as hell, A lets them burn that off in a way that B does not. They want to be part of the process. She'll be dead within a couple minutes either way. We have to do what's best for society as a whole. While it's true A does allow a more cathartic result for the people of Kavodel, I disagree about not having to consider the watchers feelings in this. They know that we saw them ease the pain of the heretic last time. Choosing to not end her pain quickly will likely cause the melachim to do so on their own, granted. However, they will judge Enkidel for it. Enkidel isn't a man, and he has seen enough of TPtB's agenda to know what they would like us to do here. By not ending Hagar quickly, they'll probably add another strike against us in the "dangerous and cruel" column. Which, depending on what one thinks of TPtB may not be a bad thing.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:57
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K - Go ask Ish what to do
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Oct 31, 2016 19:59
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Question for Diog: What will our men think about Tudiya coming and us reversing our decision? I assume we'll have way of making them realize we weren't bewitched, but won't our authority be undermined a bit?
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Oct 31, 2016 20:00
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Throw a rock through her lovely head and move on.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:01
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A If Tudiya has determined it is fraud, and he is smarter than us, it was probably fraud. My own patience with her is basically gone. But yeah, let's add a short statement asking for her pain to be taken away if she was, in fact, faithful and misguided. If not then she knowingly hosed people over for decades.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:03
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Task Manager posted:While it's true A does allow a more cathartic result for the people of Kavodel, I disagree about not having to consider the watchers feelings in this. They know that we saw them ease the pain of the heretic last time. Choosing to not end her pain quickly will likely cause the melachim to do so on their own, granted. However, they will judge Enkidel for it. Enkidel isn't a man, and he has seen enough of TPtB's agenda to know what they would like us to do here. By not ending Hagar quickly, they'll probably add another strike against us in the "dangerous and cruel" column. Arguably a point in the humility column though since we are bowing to Tudiya's will.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:05
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SerSpook posted:A Yeah, Tudiya has all the facts usually. smfh.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:08
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We should pick a side and not try to please everyone. Dad ran 6 hours both city for us, and that means a lot to me. 
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Oct 31, 2016 20:09
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SerSpook posted:Arguably a point in the humility column though since we are bowing to Tudiya's will. True - but we likely get the humility bonus with B anyways for respecting the king's ruling (if not to a "t", at least in carrying out the actual sentence as given with no verbal complaint) Task Manager fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 20:12
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Tsyni posted:Yeah, Tudiya has all the facts usually. smfh. I just want this done with if I'm honest. And, in all honesty, Tudiya has lots more knowledge and experience of these sorts of investigations than us. I am inclined to trust his judgment that it is fraud. The tablets might be magical in such a way that Hagar can move them, etc, but I doubt it. They don't exist, considering she never showed them to even her most faithful followers.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:12
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Regardless of who we try to please (and I do think we should remember that the PtB keep telling us to not try to estimate their moral stances and to not act according to what we think they want), I don't think Enkidel as established so far would torture someone he believes is (mostly) innocent for political or social gain.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:13
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A
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Oct 31, 2016 20:21
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We haven't even talked to her since she asked us to swear we wouldn't give the tablets to the temple of El. Can we just say to her "Look, you're hosed. You can give me the tablets and hope I don't give them to the temple or you're going to die. If the tablets are real, then I'll try and get you off. What's it going to be?" Yeah I know you don't think they're real (I don;t think they exist), but there's a chance they are, and if they're written in a stupid old language maybe she's been mis-translating them. If they are real she's not the charlatan she's been painted as.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:30
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A
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Oct 31, 2016 20:32
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Waci posted:Regardless of who we try to please (and I do think we should remember that the PtB keep telling us to not try to estimate their moral stances and to not act according to what we think they want) About any other topic besides "What do TPtB want done with an unrepentant heretic sentenced to die?", I'd likely agree with you on this topic - but not only have we witnessed this exact specific instance previously, we confirmed during one of the many Q&As that they were indeed easing the suffering of the man directly. Unlike the first instance, we're in a position to do something about it here. I think it's pretty clear-cut what they hope we do in an almost the exact same situation. They likely won't tear us a new one over it, but they'll be "tsk, tsk, tsk"ing all over the place up on their mountain if A wins. Outrail posted:We haven't even talked to her since she asked us to swear we wouldn't give the tablets to the temple of El. That ship has sailed. Diog's stated in the update Hagar won't speak to us. I guess we could try asking at the execution, but....I doubt she'll be willing then.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:38
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Changing my vote to A muscle dad knows whats going on and we should do as he instructed. I assume we'll get one more chance to talk to her to say "give up the tablets and live or they're lost forever and you die."
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Oct 31, 2016 20:41
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Azuth0667 posted:Changing my vote to A muscle dad knows whats going on and we should do as he instructed. I assume we'll get one more chance to talk to her to say "give up the tablets and live or they're lost forever and you die." I doubt muscle dad has a clue what's going on, and would be devastated and confused as hell if he found out. Next time we see Ish he's going to have something to say about sending Dad on a fetch quest for a pack of lies.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:43
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Outrail posted:I doubt muscle dad has a clue what's going on, and would be devastated and confused as hell if he found out. With respect to the tablets I think he does and next time we meet ish first thing is we slap him for being a lovely teacher.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:46
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A closer comparison, if Hagar has in fact committed fraud here, would probably be the people Tudiya had stoned following the Temple of the Melachim event. That didn't seem to be considered cruel. The burning alive thing was, for a dude that, for his crime, basically said "you do this everything's gonna turn to poo poo". Albeit in a more dramatic way. And pretty hosed up. Not exactly the same thing.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:46
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G, then gently caress off and fly away forever(picking up snarls along the way and explore the world.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:47
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A
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Oct 31, 2016 20:48
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SerSpook posted:A closer comparison, if Hagar has in fact committed fraud here, would probably be the people Tudiya had stoned following the Temple of the Melachim event. That didn't seem to be considered cruel. Were we present for the previous stonings though? I honestly don't recall that specific event, just the burning at the stake. If we were present and the melachim didn't take any steps to ease the pain, then I suppose A might not be as awful when it comes to brownie points lost. I'd still argue that we have evidence that someone even worse than the people that got stoned (not only unrepentant, but a prick about it as well) was given mercy - but for the sake of not having pages and pages of back and forth on the topic, I'll quit belaboring my point. I've said my piece.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:53
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Task Manager posted:Were we present for the previous stonings though? I honestly don't recall that specific event, just the burning at the stake. If we were present and the melachim didn't take any steps to ease the pain, then I suppose A might not be as awful when it comes to brownie points lost. We were for the stoning. When the heretics cried out for El to save them, the Mighty Men ended it. They also cast the first stones iirc? The Melachim took no steps to end it.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:56
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SerSpook posted:I just want this done with if I'm honest. And, in all honesty, Tudiya has lots more knowledge and experience of these sorts of investigations than us. I am inclined to trust his judgment that it is fraud. Ok, sure, fine, I want to be done too, but stoning her for fraud is cruel....especially when we were going to release her. We knew that maybe there weren't tablets already.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:57
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B, mercy is never yadda yadda. She's a dead woman whatever happens, we can at least make it quick.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:00
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B, but make it really obvious that we're executing her without making it suffer. Get a giant block and imitate Mighty Man Cannon we saw at Taanach. In fact, there's a big block of stone in the Temple of the Melachim - that altar needs to be destroyed somehow....
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Oct 31, 2016 21:05
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I have the feeling that the decommissioning of that altar should be handled with delicacy. If we passed out for two days because we broke an effigy of ourselves, what happens when the drat altar with a weird presence meets the same fate? But if we wanted to do something reckless with it, my vote would be gathering the pieces of the statue and using them as a sacrifice to El on that altar. Or I'd be down with just using those pieces on a normal altar. We sacrificed a lot for that rubble, and they still might themselves hold power that El is displeased with. Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 21:13
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B, mercy is never misplaced. Stoning is pretty brutal.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:15
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Hellsau posted:B, but make it really obvious that we're executing her without making it suffer. Get a giant block and imitate Mighty Man Cannon we saw at Taanach. In fact, there's a big block of stone in the Temple of the Melachim - that altar needs to be destroyed somehow.... Really? You think that's the best option from Hagar's perspective? Would you rather get killed by getting smashed to a pulp by a 2 ton stone or by a pebble thrown with surgical precision? One's much better from a purely psychological perspective.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:21
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Mr. Nemo posted:Really? You think that's the best option from Hagar's perspective? Would you rather get killed by getting smashed to a pulp by a 2 ton stone or by a pebble thrown with surgical precision? One's much better from a purely psychological perspective. Who cares what Hagar thinks? She's a witch.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:36
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Are we really trying to please our dad, the trio, AND the witch?
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Oct 31, 2016 21:46
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B
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Oct 31, 2016 21:52
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Would Enkidel torture someone he just decided was innocent because he was ordered to? It's more likely than you think!
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Oct 31, 2016 21:58
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A or B, but use the severed head of our statue as the stone.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:03
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A let's get it done with, it sucks, also we're going back on our word, but there's not a good way out of this now. Let's just be done with it.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:09
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A
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Oct 31, 2016 22:25
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A
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Oct 31, 2016 22:29
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A - Could have done it quick and painless, but noooo, we had to have a sham trial and try to let her go free, now we have to make it ugly because it turns out she was full of poo poo all along. I really hope a Melachim turns off her pain receptors.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:42
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A We're all monsters.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:46
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