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ApathyGifted posted:Man, there's a lot of non-parallel straight edges on that thing for a stealth aircraft. Man, that thing looks like someone took an F-15, swapped the wings and horizontal stabilizers, and made the wings a bit more F-16-like. It's Fuckin with my head.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:08
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 01:52 |
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Somewhere this morning several Lockheed engineers are thinking, "We're fine."
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Nov 1, 2016 15:09
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MikeCrotch posted:Whole lotta talk about ugly planes that aren't the Nimrod AWACS Not just ugly, but LOUD too.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:11
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holocaust bloopers posted:Looks like two halves of two different planes glued onto each other.  Edit: I couldn't find what I was actually looking for, but this came up in the GIS.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:21
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Lol
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Nov 1, 2016 16:29
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Do the engines still need replacing after every demo flight?
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Nov 1, 2016 16:33
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yall really dont like chinese planes huh
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Nov 1, 2016 16:49
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I don't dislike them per se, just I've read that the claims are outrageous and the reality doesn't even meet a basic standard. But many people here are far more expert than I (and some of them aren't specifically prohibited from posting about it!). I'm just a guy who reads some plane things sometimes, so that's why I'm asking others.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:57
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I've said it earlier in this thread but I'll mention it again, indigenous Chinese jet engines scare the crap out of me. Pratt is discovering new failure modes for jet parts from engines designed 30 years ago. The learning curve is beyond enormous. We could give them the exact blueprints to something made today and they couldn't make it. They would never get the metallurgy right.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:20
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um excuse me posted:I've said it earlier in this thread but I'll mention it again, indigenous Chinese jet engines scare the crap out of me. Pratt is discovering new failure modes for jet parts from engines designed 30 years ago. The learning curve is beyond enormous. We could give them the exact blueprints to something made today and they couldn't make it. They would never get the metallurgy right. And that's without the pervasive culture of "that's good enough." The china.jpg thread has its faults, but it's certainly cured me of worrying about "The Chinese Century"
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Nov 1, 2016 17:59
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um excuse me posted:...they would never get the metallurgy right. Given the meeting I just got out of looking at stuff with our supplier in the small piston engine industry, this made me laugh hard enough for my coworkers look at me.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:20
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In terms of commerical airliners, outside of China I don't think anyone has much to worry about. The odds of those being mounted on a Boeing/Airbus product in the West in the next 30 years are about as close to zero as numbers allow.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:23
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Looks like the F-22 and the Eurofighter had a baby, then abandoned it on a doorstep in Shanghai.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:38
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StandardVC10 posted:Looks like the F-22 and the Eurofighter had a baby, then abandoned it on a doorstep in Shanghai. Because it was a girl?
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Nov 1, 2016 20:01
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MikeCrotch posted:Whole lotta talk about ugly planes that aren't the Nimrod AWACS I did some more research and it turns out frangible streamlined nose cones are available for the launchers, at least, and if they present a drag problem after firing they can just be jettisoned. Meanwhile, the French did both, streamlining the SNEB's Matra launchers -and- putting individual frangible doors over each rocket socket. 
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Nov 1, 2016 20:56
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So when Clint Eastwood stole the FireFox prototype, he actually flew it to china...
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Nov 1, 2016 21:21
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That thing doesn't even begin to approach low-RCS. And based on open-source discussion on the engines China will likely install in production J-20s, 
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Nov 1, 2016 21:33
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R-Type posted:So when Clint Eastwood stole the FireFox prototype, he actually flew it to china... From the looks of it, he stole the MiG 1.42 instead...
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Nov 1, 2016 23:03
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looks like a plane to me 
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Nov 1, 2016 23:08
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:looks like a plane to me Looks like
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Nov 2, 2016 00:02
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It looks really shiny, does that mean the wings both lack an anti-radar coating, and aren't composite?
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Nov 2, 2016 06:11
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2016 best NEWJet FIGHTER CHENGDU F22 stealth mach2 mach3 LIKEF-35 FREE SHIPING USA + FREE GIFT (MISSILE) A++
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Nov 2, 2016 06:18
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Suicide Watch posted:It looks really shiny, does that mean the wings both lack an anti-radar coating, and aren't composite? It might have some sort of radar-absorbing coating, but that can only do so much. A few things stick out in my mind that would make me go as far as to say that the J-20 might not even be significantly stealthy: -Canard surfaces are extremely hard to hide on radar from what I've read, much harder than a conventionally-placed horizontal stabiliser, which (in the frontal aspect) is hidden by the wing in both the F-35 and F-22. -Those little dorsal fins under the vertical stabilisers look like perfect radar "traps". Unless they're made of some revolutionary material that is transparent to radar, they'll stick out like a sore thumb. -Lots of funny and one-off angles on a lot of surfaces. If you look at the F-117, F-22 and F-35, you will see that a lot of the angles of the control surfaces, wings, etc, broadly match up with one another; this helps to redirect radar energy in a predictable way. Otherwise, they form radar traps again, which serve to amplify and unpredictably radiate radar energy. Also, there are no deliberate traps in the control surface edges (which look like scoops taken out of the surfaces) where they meet each other or with the fuselage. -The thing is loving enormous; big airplanes are harder to hide than small ones. All in all, it might be stealthy in the frontal aspect, but by my admittedly cursory analysis it sure as hell isn't an all- or most-aspect stealthy design, and I question how stealthy it truly is in the frontal aspect in the first place. MrChips fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 06:26
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It looks like they started copying the F-22 at the front and then the F-35 on the engine inlets and then when they got to the canards just said "gently caress it" and slapped a stepped delta version of an F-15 on there and called it a day.
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Nov 2, 2016 06:34
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China doesn't need to have a stealth fighter, they merely need to have something that *looks* like one to make their people think they're not tragically behind in metallurgy and engine design. One thing the Chinese and Russians have in common is that there's a not-insignificant population of uber-nationalist citizens who like operating under the illusion that the only reason they don't rule the world is because of politeness, and not because their respective logistics are terrible. They know there's an almost infinitesimal chance the J-20 will ever see combat, but they're too heavily invested in saying it isn't terrible now. And since it's an indigenous project, it won't fall prey to the FGFA fuckery with India.
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Nov 2, 2016 06:44
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Honestly the paint just looks like they tried to copy what the Raptor looks like.
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Nov 2, 2016 07:14
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BIG HEADLINE posted:China doesn't need to have a stealth fighter, they merely need to have something that *looks* like one to make their people think they're not tragically behind in metallurgy and engine design. One thing the Chinese and Russians have in common is that there's a not-insignificant population of uber-nationalist citizens who like operating under the illusion that the only reason they don't rule the world is because of politeness, and not because their respective logistics are terrible. China has this problem in spades mostly because the government has swept internal problems under the rug by focusing the public's problems on the dastardly Americans/Philippinos/Japanese. This has backfired now actual problems are looming in the South China Sea and a big chunk the public is wondering why China can't just settle the issue like the government always said they could.
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Nov 2, 2016 13:25
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MrChips posted:All in all, it might be stealthy in the frontal aspect, but by my admittedly cursory analysis it sure as hell isn't an all- or most-aspect stealthy design, and I question how stealthy it truly is in the frontal aspect in the first place. I can't find the sources right now, but I remember reading that it's quite possible that the J-20 is only optimized for stealth only from front. If I remember it correctly, the thinking goes that the thing is way too big anyway, so it'll likely be armed with anti-ship weapons and the idea is to be stealthy from the front while flying towards a carrier group, unload the missiles and then run away. Of course, it could also just be China creating a fake stealth plane, because a super power should have a stealth plane so let's just build a plane that looks like it is
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Nov 2, 2016 13:54
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Babies Getting Rabies posted:Of course, it could also just be China creating a fake stealth plane, because a super power should have a stealth plane so let's just build a plane that looks like it is 
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Nov 2, 2016 14:02
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Nov 2, 2016 14:14
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Hey at least the J-20 actually flies. And I'm sure the pilot is able to actually see through the canopy.
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Nov 2, 2016 14:25
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BIG HEADLINE posted:China doesn't need to have a stealth fighter, they merely need to have something that *looks* like one to make their people think they're not tragically behind in metallurgy and engine design. One thing the Chinese and Russians have in common is that there's a not-insignificant population of uber-nationalist citizens who like operating under the illusion that the only reason they don't rule the world is because of politeness, and not because their respective logistics are terrible. So it's a cargo cult of national defense?
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Nov 2, 2016 14:27
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A better explanation would be that China would like to build a stealth fighter, but wasn't successful, and is unable to admit it due to a pathological need to save face.
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Nov 2, 2016 14:41
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Mortabis posted:A better explanation would be that China would like to build a stealth fighter, but wasn't successful, and is unable to admit it due to a pathological need to save face. I'm half thinking that the major thing they nicked was the flight control software, so they had to make it in a rough facsimile to allow that to be useful. It's the only reason I can think of to make it that shape, as you'd have to if you were using "borrowed" code, rather than going for something more like a Typhoon if you were doing it from scratch. Edit: This is what awesome engineering and flight control software can do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8OJs6E3JM. Engine porn. Hexyflexy fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 15:05
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Oh man, I hate it when the glue fogs up the canopy on my Revell set, too
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Nov 2, 2016 15:22
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How is the J-20 a 'rough facsimile' of anything??
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Nov 2, 2016 15:28
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Hey, at least the F302 actually flies.   Fake Edit: Have a rocket powered Hurricane -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAM_ship
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Nov 2, 2016 15:33
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Hexyflexy posted:I'm half thinking that the major thing they nicked was the flight control software, so they had to make it in a rough facsimile to allow that to be useful. It's the only reason I can think of to make it that shape, as you'd have to if you were using "borrowed" code, rather than going for something more like a Typhoon if you were doing it from scratch. quote:They added a dorsal hump to hold the computer... How far we've come since 1992!
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Nov 2, 2016 15:36
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Babies Getting Rabies posted:I can't find the sources right now, but I remember reading that it's quite possible that the J-20 is only optimized for stealth only from front. If I remember it correctly, the thinking goes that the thing is way too big anyway, so it'll likely be armed with anti-ship weapons and the idea is to be stealthy from the front while flying towards a carrier group, unload the missiles and then run away. I believe that the weapons bay is very obviously just the right dimensions to fit six of their AMRAAM equivalents.
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Nov 2, 2016 15:39
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It also looks like it's got a datalink on it similar to the F-35;
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Nov 2, 2016 15:45
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