Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Doresh posted:

How hard is it for a Mage to transform a wolfgirl into a hugging pillow?

Doresh, i love and respect you for the work you've put in presenting many interesting nerd games here, but this weeaboo persona you're cultivating is getting p weird.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

I'm pretty sure Undead Menses was David Hill again actually.

Tasoth
Dec 13, 2011

Kurieg posted:

Killing thugs by moonlight
Hunting Spirits by moonlight
Really it's only just moonlight
He is the one called sailor wolf.

Sailor Lune and Tuxedo Wolf.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Nuns with Guns posted:

Doresh, i love and respect you for the work you've put in presenting many interesting nerd games here, but this weeaboo persona you're cultivating is getting p weird.

I have awakened as a Beast, and my Horror hungers for moe. I punish myself so that I can teach others a lesson about dignity.

My permanent Anathema is an allergy towards DVDs of shows like Batman TAS, The Simpsons, and Avatar. The latter only hurts slightly, though.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Nov 5, 2016

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

I cast thee out, monster.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Dave Brookshaw posted:

The Merit from Clanbook Gangrel, which she did not write?

I was thinking of Undead Menses from VTR 2e. The Merit that is available to anyone who identifies as female.


Mors Rattus posted:

I'm pretty sure Undead Menses was David Hill again actually.

If this is the case, my apologies to Rose for slandering her good name and repute.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Kurieg posted:


I cast thee out, monster.

Even Batman Beyond?! I'm melting~...

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Josh Hilden posted:

What Kind of Writer am !?

I am THAT WRITER, the one who spews his work into the world entirely too fast and rough. The one who has zero desire to do this the "Right Way" and couldn't give a poop if you approve or not. All of that being said I have feelings and they can be hurt when people decide to be jackasses. But in my world instead of punching them in the face they are more likely to end up as thinly veiled libelous characters in my tales. They will always be the characters who are attacked by the machete wielding gorillas who instead of killing them will instead initiate them into the brutal world of "Monkey Love".

Yeah I'm that guy.



Dead Reign Part 10: "They're just animated dead, right? Wrong."

And now the giant-sized conclusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3eg1ws7Sc

Epilogue

The book ends on a one-page epilogue from Josh Hilden, Joshua Sanford, and Kevin Siembieda in that order. Hilden talks about his father showing him Night of the Living Dead at age 10, and how he hopes he can share the feelings of dread and terror he felt that night with the readers. Sanford talks about how frightening zombies can be, due to their unrelenting nature but potentially familiar faces. And finally, Siembieda takes up the lion's share of the page, discussing the origins of the book. He brings up that Hilden and Sanford saw it as a small sourcebook for Beyond the Supernatural, but he had them develop it into a full game and then "took that premise and those ideas and recast them". He discusses that they've done post-apocalypse settings before (for the record, After the Bomb, Rifts, System Failure, Chaos Earth, Splicers, and arguably Robotech: the Invid Invasion are at least six post-apocalypse games they've published). He snorts at people who say it's all been done before, and his retort to that is no, zombies are scary and represent our primal fears and symbolism and-

Kevin Siembieda posted:

... I loved it.

Kevin Siembieda posted:

I loved the premise....

Kevin Siembieda posted:

I loved the idea....

Kevin Siembieda posted:

Like I said, I love it.

He did not, however, love the manuscript, though there's only a hint of the fact that there was an extensive rewrite in the book itself. The book ends here with an advert for The Rifter, a character sheet, and then a Palladium house ad for all of their major games at the time. But there's one last part of the story.

Another World of Zombies

The Rifter #45 posted:

This entire storyline was removed from the published Dead Reign RPG for a number of reasons. Here are some of the most notable just to provide some perspective and a better glimpse behind the scenes.

One, as Publisher and Game Designer, I felt the including a conquering Alien Intelligence, demons, magic, psionics and a global conspiracy to invade and conquer the Earth took away from what Dead Reign was at its very core – a game about the Zombie Apocalypse, fighting zombies and human survival. The conspiracy, invasion and supernatural elements seemed to take the emphasis away from the zombies themselves and the horror they represented. To me, Dead Reign was always a horror game about zombies.

Two, our independent research showed gamers and fans of the zombie genre wanted a zombie game with broad appeal and classic elements. Based on our own research, demons, magic, psionics, highly intelligent zombies, and an Alien Intelligence invader were NOT what the majority of zombie fans wanted.

Three, we’ve been down this road before. For me, the conspiracy of magic and demons led by an Alien Intelligence and his human henchmen, made the game feel too much like other Palladium RPGs and sourcebooks: Systems Failure™, Nightbane®, Beyond the Supernatural™, and many of the storylines in Rifts®, various Rifts® sourcebooks (Vampire Kingdoms, for one), and storylines planned for Rifts® Chaos Earth™ (including a couple about zombie hordes), where such stories seem much more appropriate. Dead Reign™ needed to be a horror game that would make fans of zombies salivate with delight, and this didn’t feel like it.

Four, I felt many of the cool ideas the two Joshes presented were not taken far enough and there was not enough environmental data about the setting or about zombies. The long introduction by Brad Ashley, Resources, Fighting Zombies, and 90% of the Zombie section that appears in the RPG weren’t part of the original manuscript. What you see in The Rifter® #40 sneak peak of the game in development, is pretty much it when it came to zombies. I just felt zombies got short-changed and lost in the invasion conspiracy, magic, and world conquest storyline. Player characters with magic powers and psionics also took away the “every man” aspect of the zombie genre. The Brulyx invasion storyline had its cool and interesting ideas, but it didn’t feel like zombies or the zombie apocalypse to me, nor did it to the zombie fanatics I spoke with.

Ultimately, I felt the spirit of the games I saw Josh G.M. and heard so many players ranting about afterward was missing. I couldn’t help noticing the games Josh ran at the Palladium Open House, Gen Con and elsewhere focused on ordinary people, fighting zombies, the horror of it all and people trying to survive in a world dominated by zombies! There was horror, suspense, and fast action. The focus was on zombies and humanity. I saw the same thing in my own play tests. This was the heart and soul of Dead Reign. This is what made the game GREAT! And it was what Josh, himself, exhibited in his tournament games. Yet somehow, I felt the alien intelligence and extraordinary elements of magic and psionics took away from the humanity and horror of the game. It took away the idea of ordinary people just like you and me having to struggle against monsters that only yesterday, were also people like you and me! I love that. You love that! I think most fans of the zombie genre love that! This was the core element needed in Dead Reign. All the other fantastic aspects, as cool as they were, took away from that. Ironically, the Dead Reign RPG, as rewritten by me, was an attempt to capture the very magic I saw in the games Josh ran so beautifully. And I think I achieved that.

Whether you agree with my assessment and the direction taken for the published Dead Reign RPG, is unimportant. You now get the unique opportunity to see some of the original authors’ concepts, ideas, and text presented in the pages that follow as an optional storyline and source material. The alternative material may be adapted to Rifts®, Nightbane®, Dead Reign and just about any of Palladium’s RPGs.

In The Rifter #45, due to fan interest, Siembieda published some more of the original manuscript that Josh Hilden and Joshua Sanford wrote with their permission. I actually didn't discover this article until partway through my review, but on reflection, it makes a good bookend to it. So let's see what we've got.


Who ordered the zombie melt?

Almost Tomorrow

We get a fiction chunk that's actually reprinted from both The Rifter #40 and Dead Reign and I'm skipping for a third time. The details of The Wave remain here as they were in the original pitch - people get inoculated with Unisane, are killed by The Wave, and rise again as zombies. Everything falls apart. The big change here is that there's a group of people called the Survivor Information Network that reveal the plot by the Benford Group, the use of Unisane to create the zombie plague, their worship of Brulyx, and corralling survivors for sacrifice. The ironic effect is that many survivors who hear only become more paranoid and it keeps organized resistance against Brulyx cult from uniting.

A full timeline is presented, starting with the suspiciously round 10,000 B.C., where Brulyx first tries to conquer the Earth, but is defeated by the "Lost Civilization" and "an alliance of elder gods and spirits of light". Unfortunately, the ensuing cataclysm creates a polar shift that wipes out almost all signs of the Lost Civilization. Phat Greg joins up with Brulyx (now correctly in Greece, given he's a priest of Hades, and not Rome as originally stated). Most of the rest is a laundry list of Greg's crimes:
  • He engineers the Antoine Plague in Rome.
  • He creates the Bubonic plague.
  • Travels to North America and wipes out the last descendants of the Lost Civilization.
  • He then gives the world the Spanish Flu.
  • Greg helps the Nazis rise to power and then takes their stuff.
  • And lastly, he creates the Benford Group and leads them to their zombie apocalypse.
Most of the timeline details post-apocalypse events around the world, and there are a few new onces. A Russian general leads part of the Russian army north to liberate and protect "Arkangel" (Arkhangelsk, technically). The Australian government retreats to Tasmania where they form "Free OZ". :rolleyes: North Korea launches nukes across Asia for undisclosed reasons, which allows the Brulyx cult to take over. Ireland (who, as you may remember, kicked all their zombies out) and Free OZ form a base in South Africa because... reasons, I guess. The Brulyx Cult teams up with the "Hell Razors", whatever they are. There's a clash between the forces of Brulyx and "the Mountain Warriors of the Indian Redoubt". That's actual India, FYI. Then Free OZ fights off an attempt by the Brulyx forces to land in Australia. There's not much explanation

We get a recap of the Unisane plot, but it's already covered in The Rifter #40, so skip.

The Cult of Brulyx & The Benford Group

We get a fiction chunk where Greg sacrifices a follower who becomes an Thinker zombie as a result. Most of the following information was already included in The Rifter #40, again, as it goes over Greg's origins and the whole Unisane plot to raise people as a zombie P.P.E. network to bring Brulyx over to our world. I wonder why he wants to come over so bad. "loving region protection means I can't watch my favorite anime in this dimension! If I have to murder your whole world to just come over and watch Love Live!, I will!"

:shrug:
Seriously I don't see what the big deal about Earth is.

So the Brulyx Cult's big goal is to :sigh: conquer the world, round up everybody into death camps, put them to knife, and welcome Brulyx to anime heaven. Or something. They're looking to separate people into two camps: tools and sacrifices. As mentioned before, they're looking to seize mystic sites like the Nazca Plains or Stonehedge (where the demons dwell, where the banshees live and they do ne'er well). Look, I have to make jokes and references because the text is like:

The Rifter #45 posted:

The levels of ambient P.P.E. unleashed by the Wave are too weak to provide the necessary energy, so the cult must take the P.P.E. from living people. The most efficient
method is through human sacrifice. Therefore, the cult tries to capture as many living victims as possible. They are herded to ley line nexus points, and held prisoner until moments when the magic energy is at its highest (full moons, equinox, etc.). The victims are mass-sacrificed, and their P.P.E. is channeled to the central Temple of Brulyx.

The Rifter #45 posted:

Imagine the worst of the Nazi death camps in World War Two and multiply it by ten, and then you come close to an accurate description of life within the Pens. The strong dominate the weak and the young and elderly perish by the bushel.

The Rifter #45 posted:

Breeding Centers: ... As soon as large tracts of land have been pacified, one of the first priorities will be the establishment of compounds for the perpetuation of the human species in subservient and cattle-like capacity.

Eyyyy how about about that human extermination and rape camps, I guess most of the human race being murdered in a dark ritual and then rising to consume their loved ones wasn't quite grim enough. Not quite. There are also Brulyx cultists and commandos sent out to either claim resources or just assassinate whoever they assassinate.

The Supernatural

We're reminded that, as in the original pitch, 15% of the surviving human population is psychic now. There's a throwaway reference to apparently hints of the supernatural leading to a "Salem Mystic Festival" in 2010 and 2011 which doesn't matter at all, but it's brought up here. It points out that magic and psionics can be used to give survivors an edge over zombie hordes. However, the downside is that the increased magical power also let Brulyx draw his demonic servants to his world, but it still takes a lot of power to draw them here. As such, the Brulyx cult keeps a tight leash on any demons they can bring over.

Speaking of which, time for some demons!


"A lot of people make that mistake, Shuma-Gorath is my cousin."

Crawling Maw - Lesser Demon

Also known as "Satan's Starfish", this is a 10'-15' collection of tentacles that prefers water but also moves at like 14 MPH on land, which makes me wonder if they run on their little tentacles or roll around like wheels or what. Their bite contains "the dreaded Z-Virus" but unless you've read The Rifter #40 like I have, that won't mean much. There's also a typo for their damage (I presume it's supposed to be 1d6x10, not 1d610) and are basically supposed to be the "demonic version of a rabid dog" only this thing can probably tear though all but the most heavily-equipped or prepped. group of survivors readily with its eight attacks a round and a bite that can easily instakill an unarmored PC (with a save or die to boot).


The incredibly strange creature who stopped living and became a mixed-up zombie.

Jigsaw Zombie - Lesser Demon

This is a mashup zombie where Brulyx cultists frankenstein a body together and then summon a demon to animate it. They can thusly take spare body parts and replace them, but honestly for all the trouble they aren't that different from normal sloucher zombies. The main difference is that blowing off their head won't kill them, you have to destroy the body. Mostly just feels like a gotcha surprise for PCs, but it's not any nastier than a normal zombie otherwise, and is even understatted compared to most with a mere Physical Strength of 8.


Skulls in skulls.

Necro-Golem

This is like the above jigsaw zombie, but can just pack on zombie flesh to become a big flesh-putty monster, which mainly just lets it double its S.D.C. and recover by slapping corpses on itself. It's mostly just a really tough zombie with a gimmick, it's actually understatted compared to the main blocks from Dead Reign with a Physical Strength that doesn't give it a damage bonus, making it something of a paper tiger. Or a... ham tiger? Some kind of not actually scary tiger.


"Did I just poo poo a zombie? I need to see a doctor! This is alarming!"

Organ Grinder - Greater Demon

This is "the most powerful of Brulyx's minions", being a 25'-55' worm, and is pretty drat tough, but also has a genius I.Q. and is "always thinking 4 moves ahead", but it probably doesn't need to given it has 10 attacks a round with 1d6x10 bites and can command sloucher zombies. It also can eat people and poo poo out zombies, which we're given rules for, but there are no rules for how they swallow people in the middle of a fight. They have a ridiculous Horror Factor of 18, more than many gods in other Palladium games, and get "all wilderness" skills. That means that they are masters of that old-time skill Whittling and Carving. Unfortunately, they have no arms to whittle with, no doubt leading to their demonic rage.


"The naked conquest of your world begins!"

Brulyx - The Fallen One

Originally a demon in service to a "elder god" or a "great demon", Brulyx was originally a beautiful, angelic-looking being until he tried to take over Earth for INSERT_REASON_HERE. Only a bunch of gods and the Lost Civilization were able to team up and lock him in his home dimension at great cost. However, Brulyx contacted some greater eeevil power to help him free himself, and that eeevil power then made him into a god, albeit one that looked less like a beautiful flower and more like a melty corpse. "Wait, if I'm a god, why do I look like a melty corpse now? Don't get I get some say with my godlike-" "EVIL MEANS UGLY, READ THE SCRIPT." As we know, he empowered Gregius, and Gregius had apparently gotten the portal to let him out, but "someone or something" stopped him, and so Brulyx is seeking the last magical oomph to enter our world.

The Rifter #45 posted:

Real Name: To pronounce it correctly he would have to rip out your tongue.

:rolleyes:

He gets an actual statblock of this time, with most stats well into the superhuman or maximum range of 20-30, except for Physical Beauty which is the pits and Speed which is average. He's a "12th level Dark God" who can see the invisible, turn invisible, teleport, walk around in the cold in his barest of skivvies, is immune to poison and disease, and has as much S.D.C. and Hit Points as a literal battleship, so you better bring your 16" inch guns if you want to throw down with him. Oh, and he can dimensionally teleport if he ever gets free, so like most Palladium evil gods, can just gently caress off if he ever thinks he's losing a fight, and unlike Rifts characters, most Dead Reign characters are still going to think fireballs are pretty special when it turns out he pretty much laughs off your lightning bolt and fires back with any spell in Beyond the Supernatural, plus any Necromancy spell (not included in that book, look to other Palladium games for that) or most psychic powers with thousands of P.P.E. and I.S.P. to fuel it. Basically, if he comes over, mere Dead Reign or Beyond the Supernatural characters are proper hosed and should probably check and see if the cult of Brulyx still has openings in its pawn or minion departments.

The idea that he's the pawn of a greater evil is mildly interesting but isn't likely to come up in the game. Ultimately, he's a painfully generic evil god guy of which Palladium already has a litany of, and there's not much that makes him stand out.


Oh, hey, it's Bill O'Reil- er. Gregius.

Gregius

Gregius Bonophat, known by his street name "Phat Greg" (my name, not the book's), gets a slightly more detailed background here. He was a priest of Hades with a happy family at a temple just outside of Athens when generic Northern barbarians attacked! They held out for over two weeks but the temple fell, and his acolytes dragged him out to save him. When he came back to the temple, his family was dead, he went crazy and killed his acolytes. Then the camera zoomed out and he cried out for a power to grant him vengeance. Brulyx, despite being in another dimension, hit Gregius up on interdimensional Skype and Phat Greg traded up free will for immortality and a bunch of dead barbarians. He's had some regrets and doubts since but figures at this point he no longer has a choice in what he does.

Greg gets his own statblock, with ridiculous high-end stats you'll never roll, complete with superhuman Mental Affinity and Physical Endurance, and S.D.C. equal to that of a truck. A 20th level "Priest of Brulyx" (no such class), he's no physical powerhouse, but he can turn invisible, regenerate, and gets all spells and over a thousand P.P.E. He also has all Necromancy that, once again, isn't detailed in Dead Reign or Beyond the Supernatural. I know it's in Rifts World Book: Africa, so if you take that and convert it back to S.D.C., I guess you'd be alright? I mean, if you have stacks of Palladium books on your shelves.

That's it for Dead Reign! No curtain call, we can move on to my last word.


Pretty sure they're all dead, buddy.

Dead Reign vs. Dead Reign

Should you care what I think after all this, congrats, this is where you get to hear about it! After having read and reviewed both The Rifter articles and Dead Reign itself, here's the blunt point I'm going to make: I don't think Siembieda was wrong in rejecting the manuscript. The original pitch is, frankly, heavily derivative of the Palladium playbook in Beyond the Supernatural, Nightbane, or Rifts, with an relatively dull supernatural conspiracy that makes the Umbrella Corporation look nuanced by comparison, backed by a pair of cookie cutter baddies... and Siembieda is absolutely right that the whole plot distracts from the notion of zombie survival horror. Worse, it reads like a Rifts Lite with a lot of the same elements but without rifts, dragons, or mecha - basically, anything that makes Rifts fun.

That being said, Siembieda handled it unprofessionally, which seems to be a habit for him. There's no excuse for the manuscript to be that far along without him being unaware of the contents, especially when a chunk of it was printed publicly in The Rifter as promotional material. Scrapping an entire manuscript six weeks before a publication date is a disastrous move to make for the quality of a book, and the sloppy book that came out (even for Siembieda) is no doubt in part due to that. He's right when it came to the direction of the book, but ultimately the disaster is the result of his review process - or the lack thereof. Comments from other Palladium other authors, as well as comments by Siembieda itself, show this as a pattern that's been going on for quite some time. And the idea that he should act with surprise and shock at the Joshes' reaction is practically farcical. In addition, just because it's probably a better game doesn't make it a good game.

Ultimately, it lacks a lot of the "Palladium flair" save for some of its odder zombies we'll see later on. It's just not that different from any other conventional zombie RPG, and that's a real problem when the Palladium system is its main differentiating factor. Though there are some kernels of neat ideas, like mock zombies, hound masters, or the Brulyx cult of the main book, ultimately it lacks a most of the oddball ideas that can make a Palladium game stand out - and without that, well.

I guess it's got Brad Ashley.

THE END.

Or is it?...!

YES, IT IS.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
That bit with the Organ Grinder and outdoorsy skills had me chuckling, that's up there with the charming sphere of ultimate entropy.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
I'm just gonna say that I spend the past few years thinking that AFMBE was a game where you played as the Zombies. Kobolds Ate My Baby style.

And I am very disappointed to find out otherwise.

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Speleothing posted:

I'm just gonna say that I spend the past few years thinking that AFMBE was a game where you played as the Zombies. Kobolds Ate My Baby style.

And I am very disappointed to find out otherwise.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are of course rules for playing as zombie PCs, just not in this book.

Drakli
Jan 28, 2004
Goblin-Friend

Hostile V posted:


Trogdead the Zombienator (because if we're doing zombie stuff, why not just bring back other stuff from the mid 2000s?)


I love these zombies. So much. Well done! The Super--Trogdead you proposed with 'Weak-Point: None' reminds me of that crazy flying demon-like boss from the House of the Dead series, except this one breathes fire instead of summoning bats.

You know, there's something else you could do to make the standard Trogdead zombies a bit more unusual/dangerous. Give them 'Weak-Point: Stomach' to represent all the flammable gas gathering up in the zombie's stomach as a vulnerable spot that could explode with enough trauma, or 'Weak Spot: Heart' to represent some kind of weird fire-heart organ that movies sometimes like to give dragons to represent from whence the fire comes. And then they explode. Which is another zombie power.

Hostile V posted:

Buzzby, Queen of the Zees, may not be sapient but that doesn't mean she's stupid. She came to realize that mankind and its world were a threat to nature and their primary goal of pollinating all flora everywhere. To that end, she started pumping out more and more drones and workers, sending them out in large groups while letting one or two of them slip away to assimilate themselves into human hosts. After a year of work, the Zees struck back against their creators, having turned their hosts into mobile beehives to carry them through the world and provide nesting grounds for the army of gigantic bees.

Not to spoil the Deadworlds or anything, but these Zees highlight one of the reasons I love All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It really comes out and runs with the idea that the zombies could be caused/powered by pretty much anything.

EDIT: No "I think." It just is another zombie power, I went back and reread the AFMBE post on zombie powers.

Drakli fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 6, 2016

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD

Josh HIlden posted:

But in my world instead of punching them in the face they are more likely to end up as thinly veiled libelous characters in my tales. They will always be the characters who are attacked by the machete wielding gorillas who instead of killing them will instead initiate them into the brutal world of "Monkey Love".

:barf:

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


"I like to write my detractors being raped by gorillas."- A man who evidently expected a reaction other than "What the gently caress is wrong with you?" and "GORILLAS ARE APES NOT MONKEYS!"

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Drakli posted:

Not to spoil the Deadworlds or anything, but these Zees highlight one of the reasons I love All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It really comes out and runs with the idea that the zombies could be caused/powered by pretty much anything.

All Flesh Must Be Eaten is the best zombie roleplaying game.

senrath
Nov 4, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!


And it's not a half-bad system on its own, without restricting the comparison to "other zombie games", too.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
AFMBE does fast but functional, and highly lethal, "modern" combat. So you can strip out the zombies and, those little few issues I mentioned earlier aside, use it pretty effectively as a generic "modern" system that doesn't get bogged down in 500 kinds of guns and their attachments, or fifty modifiers for the effects of wind speed on your gun. And really, if you want something relatively realistic, it does make sense that getting the drop on your enemy and firing first is the biggest advantage you can possibly have.

Fossilized Rappy
Dec 26, 2012

senrath posted:

And it's not a half-bad system on its own, without restricting the comparison to "other zombie games", too.
Not to play my hand too early, but my plans for what to do after I post the next two Exodus updates and finally put that mess behind me involves just that. All Flesh Must Be Eaten isn't the only Unisystem game Eden Studios produced, after all.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

PurpleXVI posted:

AFMBE does fast but functional, and highly lethal, "modern" combat. So you can strip out the zombies and, those little few issues I mentioned earlier aside, use it pretty effectively as a generic "modern" system that doesn't get bogged down in 500 kinds of guns and their attachments, or fifty modifiers for the effects of wind speed on your gun. And really, if you want something relatively realistic, it does make sense that getting the drop on your enemy and firing first is the biggest advantage you can possibly have.

I wonder if Phoenix Command has rules for zombies?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

PurpleXVI posted:

AFMBE does fast but functional, and highly lethal, "modern" combat. So you can strip out the zombies and, those little few issues I mentioned earlier aside, use it pretty effectively as a generic "modern" system that doesn't get bogged down in 500 kinds of guns and their attachments, or fifty modifiers for the effects of wind speed on your gun. And really, if you want something relatively realistic, it does make sense that getting the drop on your enemy and firing first is the biggest advantage you can possibly have.

I've happily used it as a base system for all sorts of urban fantasy adventures.

Even used it to run Hunter.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Unisystem (the system in AFMBE) is also used in a number of the company's other games, including Witchcraft, BtVS, and Armageddon.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I've been chatting with a couple of friends recently about DnD-style games assuming you're playing good guys and the problems of playing an evil campaign, and my friends mentioned an apparently popular Pathfinder adventure for evil PCs called Way of the Wicked. Is anyone here familiar with it and would be able to post about it? I'm curious what kind of rabbit hole a "popular" evil campaign goes down.

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.
Oven Wrangler
I ran the whole adventure path for my group and would give it a 8.5 out of 10. It does a good job of flipping the script and giving an evil group challenges a good aligned party would not face. It is a little rough around the edges since it was published by a two man shop and could have used better editing. I'm working on a write up of Book 1 and I'll try to get part 1 posted this evening.

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Fossilized Rappy posted:

Not to play my hand too early, but my plans for what to do after I post the next two Exodus updates and finally put that mess behind me involves just that. All Flesh Must Be Eaten isn't the only Unisystem game Eden Studios produced, after all.

Since gorillas have already come up (horribly) in this particular conversational chain I'm just going to assume that you're going to bust out Terra Primate.

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

I'd like to see Terra Primate up close, I've only ever looked at it from a distance, but my money is on either Army of Darkness or Conspiracy X. Either way, looking forward to it Rappy.

PantsOptional
Dec 27, 2012

All I wanna do is make you bounce

Hostile V posted:

I'd like to see Terra Primate up close, I've only ever looked at it from a distance, but my money is on either Army of Darkness or Conspiracy X. Either way, looking forward to it Rappy.

If you're willing to review it, I will absolutely send you my copy. PM me if interested.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

senrath posted:

And it's not a half-bad system on its own, without restricting the comparison to "other zombie games", too.

Yeah. CJ Carella originally developed it for Witchcraft and its been used for Armageddon 2.0, Eldritch Skies (cinematic version), Terra Primate, Conspiracy X 2.0, AFMBE, Army of Darkness (cinematic), and Buffy (cinematic).

I've used it to run a FarScape and a Tremors game (using the cinematic version as a base).

Humbug Scoolbus fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Nov 6, 2016

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Unisystem is a legit solid 'generic' RPG system.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

PurpleXVI posted:

That bit with the Organ Grinder and outdoorsy skills had me chuckling, that's up there with the charming sphere of ultimate entropy.

It also gets Boat Building (which is specifically only a skill for building boats out of natural materials) so it can guide zombies to make log rafts.

Kavak posted:

"I like to write my detractors being raped by gorillas."- A man who evidently expected a reaction other than "What the gently caress is wrong with you?" and "GORILLAS ARE APES NOT MONKEYS!"

Yeah, it doesn't encourage me to look up other things he's written, to be certain. Stuff like the zombie breeding camps makes me sigh and say, "Okay, Siembieda was probably right to reject this, just not in the way he did it."

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015
I love how Siembieda uses his own books as some kind of retro-version of a blog or Twitter.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
It's especially funny when he retweets himself like that. I'm sure I've seen him rant about lasers more than once.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Bieeardo posted:

It's especially funny when he retweets himself like that. I'm sure I've seen him rant about lasers more than once.

I'm pretty sure he also puts the exact same "True Neutral sucks" and "Random CharGen equals good roleplaying" text blocks into everything.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
Yep. Pretty sure the 'no neutrals' and media character alignment examples are the same in every Palladium corebook I've got. Made it easy to find and scan a little while back.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Bieeardo posted:

It's especially funny when he retweets himself like that. I'm sure I've seen him rant about lasers more than once.

Yeah, it appears in multiple books. Conversion Book and Japan for Rifts, at the very least. The Alignment section is copy-pasted in every corebook I've read (except for Recon, which uses a different alignment system), and it's doubly pointless because it's rarely referenced in mechanics and even rarer that it has an tangible effect. The random chargen rant doesn't appear very often but I know it's out there.

On a vaguely related note, it bears mentioning that AFMBE's Unisystem was done by CJ Carella, a former staff writer for Palladium who gave us numerous Rifts books and Nightbane.

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.
Oven Wrangler
Way of the Wicked - Book 1 - Introductions

The Way of the Wicked(WotW) is a level 1-20 Adventure Path for evil characters published by Fire Mountain Games for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game system. It’s one of the more popular 3rd party adventure books for Pathfinder, showing up in the top 10 downloads of the monthly Paizo newsletter for years. Equally important, I ran the whole campaign from start to finish over the course of about 2.5 years. We’re starting with book 1 of 6: The Knot of Thorns. As a warning I’m not doing spoilers on anything so if you are or might be playing this campaign proceed at your own discretion.



INTRODUCTION
We start with a page from the author about the repetitive nature of playing as heroes and saving the world. He then launches into the well known issues with running an evil campaign; games devolving into PvP, finding motivation for adventures and the difficulty of developing interesting wicked plans.

Traditional good campaigns are straightforward, find bad guys, kill them, take their stuff, smile for the simple village folk, save the day. So why be evil?

quote:

The short answer – it is fun to be the bad guy! It’s fun to menace the populace in black spiky armor and to call forth the powers of hell to do your bidding. Bad guys get all the best lines. Bad guys have style. Bad guys get to laugh maniacally as they plot the downfall of those fools who dared oppose them!
WotW gives the players and their characters goals to work towards and organizing principles to avoid the common problems that arise in an evil campaign. More on this later.

MAKING AN EVIL DUDE or DUDETTE

quote:

Guilty. You are a lawbreaker – the worst of the worst. Too dangerous to live amongst the good people of Talingarde, they dragged you in chains before a magistrate and condemned you. They sent you to the worst prison in the land and there they forever marked you. They held you down and branded you with a runic F. You are forsaken. You won’t be at Branderscar Prison for long. Branderscar is only a holding pen. In three days – justice comes. In three days – everything ends.
What a pity. If only there was a way out of this stinking rat-hole. If only there was a way to escape. If only…
No. No one has ever escaped from Branderscar Prison. This is where your story ends.

You too can own* this bitchin' armor by the end of this book. *Limit 1 armor per party.

Talingarde is the most sickeningly lawful-good kingdom you could ever hate to find. Mendicant clerics roam the land healing the sick for nothing in return but thanks, noble knights sally forth to crush the first stirrings of evil. The land is ruled by House Darius supported by the Church of Mitra. You’ve lived your whole life in this place hiding who you are; and given the chance you’d destroy it all. The light of Mitra shines throughout the kingdom, but it wasn’t always that way. Before the rise of House Darius all gods were tolerated; now all faiths but Mitra have been suppressed and Asmodeus has been outlawed. In Talingarde crime is not tolerated, you have all been caught and convicted for something you really did; none of you are innocent.

Char Gen
Starting with stats the book suggests a standard 25 point buy (which is what I used) or an alternate method. First choose your primary stat and put an 18 in it, then choose a dump stat and put an 8 in it. For the other 4 stats roll 1d10+7 in order - without rerolls. The author argues that it gives a slightly higher power level than point buy and makes more interesting characters, I didn’t want my players saddled with that degree of randomness in what would be a long campaign.

Next choose a Race, the book discourages anything far outside the human norm as they would stick out and be a liability when you’re on a secret mission to destroy the kingdom.

There’s advice on all character Classes but we’ll cover the exceptions; anything goes but Paladin.
Instead players can be an Anti-Paladin, except LE and not CE. There are a few suggested changes to class abilities to accommodate the alignment shift.
Barbarians are allowed as long as they do not have the Chaotic alignment. Though rebellious by nature there may be good story reasons one would join up with followers of Asmodeus.
Cavaliers are advised to choose selfish orders such as the Order of the Cockatrice.
Evil Druids also need a good reason to team up with the worshippers of Asmodeus as they cannot be Lawful.
Gunslingers are also discouraged as the setting assumes no firearms and there is no gear intended for their use.
Ninja and Samurai need a good reason to be so far from home and may not have access to the weapons and armor that are preferred by their class.

For Feats nothing is changed. The book does suggest giving all PCs +2 Skill points per level to represent villains of their caliber being above average. (I used this option but should have limited it to non-INT classes).

No need to buy equipment since you’re all starting locked up in Castle Branderscar. Casters have lost their spellbooks, component pouches, familiars, foci, holy symbols and other assorted tools of the trade. They do though begin the game with all their memorized spells. (I appreciate the straight forwardness on this part, I think we've all had a GM let us buy all our equipment only to say, 'Surprise, you're in jail, erase all that poo poo'.)

Only four Alignment types are valid for this campaign; lawful neutral, lawful evil, neutral or neutral evil. It's suggested that the GM can prohibit anything except LE. Lastly the PCs pick two Traits (essentially half feats), one of which must be the heinous crime you committed.
A final word of advice to the players is that they will be recruited into an Asmodean conspiracy and should make a character that will say ‘yes’ to that offer. (Again being up front with the players

CRIME AND PUNISHMENT
You got caught doing something bad, very bad and were sent to the worst prison in Talingarde. You have may have done other terrible things in your time before being caught but that doesn’t matter. This crime is what matters, it’s what defines you. As a sign of your guilt you have been branded so that all good men and women will recognize your wickedness.

I can’t help but think of how Blue Rose deals with bad people; rehabilitation rather than mutilation.

The book offers 20 suggested crimes:

Arson
Punishment: Death by burning
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a fire attack, you receive a +2 fire damage bonus to your damage roll.
This bonus is a trait bonus.

Attempted Murder
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You gain a +2 trait bonus to Intimidate checks, and Intimidate is always a class skill for you.

Blasphemy
Punishment: Death by burning
Benefit: +2 trait bonus to Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (religion) is always a class skill for you.

Consorting with the Dark Powers (Witchcraft)
Punishment: Death by burning
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (planes) and Knowledge (arcana) checks,
and one of these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.

Desecration
Punishment: Death by burning
Benefit: You receive +1 trait bonus on all saving throws against divine spells.

Desertion
Punishment: Death by hanging
Benefit: You receive one bonus skill point per level that must be spent on the Profession (Soldier) skill.
Profession (Soldier) is always a class skill for you.

Dueling unto Death
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus to Fortitude saves.

Extortion
Punishment: Life at hard labor in the salt mines
Benefit: You receive a +2 trait bonus to Intimidate checks, and Intimidate is always a class skill for you.

Forgery
Punishment: Life at hard labor in the salt mines
Benefit: You gain a +3 trait bonus to Linguistics skill checks to commit forgery
and Linguistics is always a class skill for you.

Fraud
Punishment: Life at hard labor in the salt mines
Benefit: You receive a +2 trait bonus to Bluff checks and Bluff is always a class kill for you.

Grave Robbery
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to confirm critical hits.

Heresy
Punishment: Death by burning.
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus on all saving throws against divine spells.

High Theft
Punishment: Life at hard labor in the salt mines
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Reflex saves.

High Treason
Punishment: Death by drawing and quartering
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Will saves.

Kidnapping
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to both Disarm and Grapple attempts.

Murder
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You deal 1 additional point of damage when flanking a foe.
This additional damage is a trait bonus.

Piracy
Punishment: Death by hanging
Benefit: You may select either Bluff or Intimidate.
The selected skill receives a +2 trait bonus and is always a class skill for you.

Sedition
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to Bluff checks and Bluff is always a class skill for you.
Further if you ever take the Leadership feat, you gain a +1 trait bonus to your Leadership score.

Slave-Taking
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You receive a +1 trait bonus to both Disarm and Grapple attempts.

Slave Trading
Punishment: Death by beheading
Benefit: You receive one bonus skill point per level that must be spent on the Appraise skill.
The Appraise skill is always a class skill for you.


MY PCs
Anti-Paladin - Tiefling, devoted herself to Asmodeus. Caught desecrating a Mitran church.
Cleric - Human, cleric of Asmodeus. He had a pathological hatred of orphans. Caught burning down a Mitran church.
Ninja - Human, last surviving heir of a far off kingdom. Fled to Talingarde where he was caught in a duel to the death.
Witch - Human, power hungry to a fault. She was caught trying to summon a devil.
Wizard - Elf, only interested in increasing his own knowledge. Accused of blasphemy for arguing the superiority of arcane magic.


NEXT TIME: A brief history of Talingarde and more thoughts on being a do-badder.

senrath
Nov 4, 2009

Look Professor, a destruct switch!


I'll admit I haven't read or played through it, but the bits I've heard from others who have played through it indicated a good portion of Way of the Wicked is "Do EEEEEEVIL things because you're EEEEEEVIL and that's what EEEEEEVIL people do for no other reason than to do EEEEEEVIL." What's your opinion on that?

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

"Anti-Paladin" is still one of the dumbest terms ever. I can't believe that after 30 or so years we haven't come up with a better term for "champion of evil gods".

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Given that the term 'paladin' just means 'one of the special knights of Charlemagne' we're already dealing with weird naming.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Evil Mastermind posted:

"Anti-Paladin" is still one of the dumbest terms ever. I can't believe that after 30 or so years we haven't come up with a better term for "champion of evil gods".

Did they use "Blackguard" to describe those types of folks in Dungeons and Dragons?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

They did at one point, but it never stuck.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5