Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

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bhsman: Feb 10, 2008; by exmarx

Reiley posted:

Actually......

Oh. Right. :v:

# ? Nov 9, 2016 01:01

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 21:52

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Reiley posted:

Actually......

Even if Smash were a fighting game his joke would still work.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 04:12

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Real hurthling! posted:

i spent my fightmoney on the stage and its pretty cool and dramatic during cammy's CA

It's a good stage with cool music, but seemingly no stage transitions.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 09:59

Alfalfa The Roach: Oct 13, 2012; You need to be a badass first.

Captain Baal posted:

The actual worst street fighter design is Sawada, sorry everyone

Dude, no, he is not worse than Area from EX3

# ? Nov 9, 2016 12:58

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

Sawada's not even the worst design in SFTM

# ? Nov 9, 2016 13:46

my girlfriend is Legos: Apr 24, 2013

Lemon-Lime posted:

It's a good stage with cool music, but seemingly no stage transitions.

I'm not sure it's possible to make a transition on either side of that stage not horrifying.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 15:28

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

my girlfriend is Legos posted:

I'm not sure it's possible to make a transition on either side of that stage not horrifying.

Just animate the KOed character falling off the edge and narrowly grabbing onto the wing tip and climbing back up. :v:

# ? Nov 9, 2016 16:50

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Lemon-Lime posted:

Just animate the KOed character falling off the edge and narrowly grabbing onto the wing tip and climbing back up.

Bouncing off another plane

Being caught by a parachuter

Landing in an expensive suite in a high rise hotel

Dying horribly

The possibilities are endless

# ? Nov 9, 2016 17:38

anothergod: Apr 11, 2016

I have a technical question regarding stun for attacks in fighting games. I guess most fighting games are slightly different, but in general (or in games you like) how is it treated If a player still has 8 frames left of stun when you hit them again for another 16 frames of stun?

1) Are the stun frames cumulative? E.g. this scenario would stun for 24 frames?
2) Does it pick the longer stun? E.g. this scenario would stun for 16 frames. If the new hit had 4 frames of stun would it *stay* at 8 frames of stun?
3) Does it pick the newest stun? E.g. if you had 30 frames of stun left and got hit with a quick punch with only 15 frames of stun would it go to 15 frames?

I can see both scenario 2 and 3. I can also see scenario 1 if stun frames get over a certain amount that there'd be a cap or the depletion of stun frames is a function of the total number of stun frames (e.g. if you were to be over 30 frames of stun you'd start losing stun frames faster).

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

anothergod fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Nov 9, 2016

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:07

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

the stage transitions are a gimmick they thought was cool and now regret horribly because they take way more time to make than they thought they would

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:12

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

anothergod posted:

I have a technical question regarding stun for attacks in fighting games. I guess most fighting games are slightly different, but in general (or in games you like) how is it treated If a player still has 8 frames left of stun when you hit them again for another 16 frames of stun?

1) Are the stun frames cumulative? E.g. this scenario would stun for 24 frames?
2) Does it pick the longer stun? E.g. this scenario would stun for 16 frames. If the new hit had 4 frames of stun would it *stay* at 8 frames of stun?
3) Does it pick the newest stun? E.g. if you had 30 frames of stun left and got hit with a quick punch with only 15 frames of stun would it go to 15 frames?

I can see both scenario 2 and 3. I can also see scenario 1 if stun frames get over a certain amount that there'd be a cap or the depletion of stun frames is a function of the total number of stun frames (e.g. if you were to be over 30 frames of stun you'd start losing stun frames faster).

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

Assuming you're talking about block/hit stun and not being dizzied, then it's scenario 3

There may be games that use 1 or 2 but I can't think of any off the top of my head

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:32

Ixiggle: Apr 28, 2009

anothergod posted:

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

this ones pretty basic really. hitstun and blockstun ("stun" usually refers to some other stunned or crumple state) are determined by the most recent attack in pretty much every fighter. it will always reset the hitstun and count for the most recent move. you cant "add" frames to hitstun, you reset the hitstun state with a new duration by landing an attack, and that last move determines followups for combos and stuff.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:34

Souplesse: May 31, 2011; Gentlemoas.

anothergod posted:

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

im shocked that the dude developing a lovely fightgamelike doesn't understand the concept of hitstun

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:37

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

Brosnan posted:

Damage/Hitstun Scaling - Because of the huge damage potential that combo systems create, many games institute a sort of proration system to put limits on what is possible through combos. Damage scaling refers to the gradual decrease in damage that your attacks do as your combo gets longer, so a hard attack done as the 5th hit of a combo does a lot less damage than it does when it's the 1st hit of the combo. Similarly, hitstun scaling is a gradual reduction in the amount of recovery time your opponent has after each hit. The latter is basically a failsafe to help prevent infinite combos from emerging, since eventually your opponent will recover so quickly from being hit that further comboing becomes impossible. There are mixed opinions about this mechanic in the fighting game community. You may also see these terms referred to as hitstun deterioration, proration, reduction, decay, etc.

Caffeine IV posted:

im shocked that the dude developing a lovely fightgamelike doesn't understand the concept of hitstun

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:44

AnonSpore: Jan 19, 2012; "I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

In pretty much every fighting game ever if you hit a dude with a thing that causes one billion frames of hitstun and then the next frame you hit them with a thing that causes 1 frame of hitstun, they'll be out of hitstun one frame after the second attack

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:51

Lynx Winters: May 1, 2003; Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

anothergod posted:

I have a technical question regarding stun for attacks in fighting games. I guess most fighting games are slightly different, but in general (or in games you like) how is it treated If a player still has 8 frames left of stun when you hit them again for another 16 frames of stun?

1) Are the stun frames cumulative? E.g. this scenario would stun for 24 frames?
2) Does it pick the longer stun? E.g. this scenario would stun for 16 frames. If the new hit had 4 frames of stun would it *stay* at 8 frames of stun?
3) Does it pick the newest stun? E.g. if you had 30 frames of stun left and got hit with a quick punch with only 15 frames of stun would it go to 15 frames?

I can see both scenario 2 and 3. I can also see scenario 1 if stun frames get over a certain amount that there'd be a cap or the depletion of stun frames is a function of the total number of stun frames (e.g. if you were to be over 30 frames of stun you'd start losing stun frames faster).

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

I would love to know if and how you tested anything to figure it out yourself.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:53

SuccinctAndPunchy: Mar 29, 2013; People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

anothergod posted:

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

You're describing hitstun, and the answer is scenario 3 for like every fighting game ever. I'm surprised to even see someone put that to words.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 19:04

Chev: Jul 19, 2010; Switchblade Switcharoo

anothergod posted:

I have a technical question regarding stun for attacks in fighting games. I guess most fighting games are slightly different, but in general (or in games you like) how is it treated If a player still has 8 frames left of stun when you hit them again for another 16 frames of stun?

1) Are the stun frames cumulative? E.g. this scenario would stun for 24 frames?
2) Does it pick the longer stun? E.g. this scenario would stun for 16 frames. If the new hit had 4 frames of stun would it *stay* at 8 frames of stun?
3) Does it pick the newest stun? E.g. if you had 30 frames of stun left and got hit with a quick punch with only 15 frames of stun would it go to 15 frames?

I can see both scenario 2 and 3. I can also see scenario 1 if stun frames get over a certain amount that there'd be a cap or the depletion of stun frames is a function of the total number of stun frames (e.g. if you were to be over 30 frames of stun you'd start losing stun frames faster).

tldr; Does anyone have links to very technical aspects of fighting games like stun?

it's number 3. The idea is really that each new hit overrides the preceding one, ie it's really just that a hit always overrides the previous state of the character.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 19:04

Fenn the Fool!: Oct 24, 2006; woohoo

I had five bucks, so I checked out Sirlin's game on Patreon. In traditional Sirlin fashion he's blatantly stolen pieces of it: the ranking markers are cheap imitations of Starcraft 2's league makers, the HP and chip damage system are taken wholesale from Pocket Rumble, and one of the animations is so obviously ripped from SF4 that I thought it was a placeholder until I saw it in the official trailer. The game also looks bargain basement as hell and there are lots of placeholder and glitchy animations, but overall I like how it plays. Everything is simple and easy to do, but there's still plenty of shenanigans and dirty stuff. I think I like it a little more than Pocket Rumble, but both games are largely coming from the same place.

Currently there are 5 playable characters that are loose analogues to Ryu, Sagat, Fei Long, Ibuki, and Potemkin. Analogues for Honda, Slayer, and Guile are partially finished and playable in training mode (or local versus for higher Patreon tiers). Two more characters are planned, the panda and the fish guy. The panda is pretty obviously Blanka in Yomi, but I expect him to have a Faustian random item toss here. As for the fish guy, good ol' Argagarg Garg, I don't have any idea how he'll play; he's always the most defensive charachter in Sirlin's games, so he might be a Dhalsim analogue, but who knows.

The official website with the trailer and everything launches next Monday. If you have five bucks to throw around I recommend checking it out.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 19:10

Pomp: Apr 3, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

# ? Nov 10, 2016 02:01

anothergod: Apr 11, 2016

Lynx Winters posted:

I would love to know if and how you tested anything to figure it out yourself.

We first tested the addition method and then realized it wasn't how most fighting games did it. I wasn't sure if I should scrap it for the 2nd or 3rd options or go for hitstun deterioration/decay/etc. It's a little weird because the direction of attacks aren't left/right like in most fighting games. You still have to aim most attacks in 3D space so your starting positions affect the directions you have to be pointing towards if you're attempting a combo.

inthesto, Ixiggle, and brosnan thanks for the help. i think we're going to try option 3.

# ? Nov 10, 2016 03:54

Souplesse: May 31, 2011; Gentlemoas.

anothergod posted:

We first tested the addition method and then realized it wasn't how most fighting games did it. I wasn't sure if I should scrap it for the 2nd or 3rd options or go for hitstun deterioration/decay/etc.

Hitstun proration is complementary to conventional hitstun in that it prevents most basic infinites. There are other ways to go about it, like increasing knockback/gravity or playing Skullgirls, but without some sort of proration, you'll probably come back once you run into degenerate gameplay loops.

# ? Nov 10, 2016 05:01

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

Naps won Tekken tonight for free, so that was cool. Good top 8 in general.

Harada showed up to thank everyone for being patient on T7 and to say there were still more new characters and modes to announce for the home release, but then he didn't announce any of them bc this is Trump's America and everything in it is loving awful.

# ? Nov 10, 2016 07:41

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Kuma please

# ? Nov 10, 2016 18:08

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

Pomp posted:

lol

# ? Nov 10, 2016 20:13

BattleHamster: Mar 18, 2009

Brosnan posted:

Naps won Tekken tonight for free, so that was cool. Good top 8 in general.

Harada showed up to thank everyone for being patient on T7 and to say there were still more new characters and modes to announce for the home release, but then he didn't announce any of them bc this is Trump's America and everything in it is loving awful.

The finals were awesome and so were the last chance qualifiers the day before.

I really hope the game catches on. Even as a spectator with very little knowledge it's extremely fun to watch.

# ? Nov 10, 2016 20:35

Brosnan: Nov 13, 2004; Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled; Lipstick Apathy

I'm generally against the trend of modern fgs adding "cool-looking" mechanics that disrupt the flow of the game (ultras, etc.), but the way Tekken's slow-mo mechanic is handled is really smart and cool as gently caress.

# ? Nov 10, 2016 20:46

bhsman: Feb 10, 2008; by exmarx

https://twitter.com/CEOJebailey/status/796829373013823489

:flashfap:

# ? Nov 10, 2016 22:45

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

I guess Razer couldnt/didn't patent that stick design.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 02:46

Night Blade: Feb 25, 2013

Pomp posted:

Well loving done. Close the internet, we're done.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 02:48

General Morden: Mar 3, 2013; GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA

https://youtu.be/5diNRsy9pqw?t=78

play karnovs

# ? Nov 11, 2016 10:08

Zand: Jul 9, 2003; ~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

General Morden posted:

https://youtu.be/5diNRsy9pqw?t=78

play karnovs

I already do though

# ? Nov 11, 2016 19:42

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Flinger posted:

Tekken did the fat blonde martial arts american better

Agreed. I think I like Bob better because his style reminds me more of watching Sammo Hung (which I believe was the intent).

Speaking of character design, has Capcom ever acknowledged Skullomania's popularity with Internet folk? I know he's owned by Arika, but I also know the original plan for Hakan was to put Darun Mister in there (which I would have liked a bunch). I know the EX games are pretty bad, they're very nearly the worst SF games ever, but I liked a few of the character designs that Arika contributed.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 21:00

General Morden: Mar 3, 2013; GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Agreed. I think I like Bob better because his style reminds me more of watching Sammo Hung (which I believe was the intent).

Speaking of character design, has Capcom ever acknowledged Skullomania's popularity with Internet folk? I know he's owned by Arika, but I also know the original plan for Hakan was to put Darun Mister in there (which I would have liked a bunch). I know the EX games are pretty bad, they're very nearly the worst SF games ever, but I liked a few of the character designs that Arika contributed.

not really

# ? Nov 11, 2016 21:10