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rum sodomy Rainbow Dash posted:Over in CSPAM a guy who worked with the campaign said the the whole thing was a too many cooks scenario, with a real lack of centralized leadership to give the campaign any sort of meaningful direction. And that makes sense if you look at the campaign and notice that the only real message it managed to get out there was that Trump is bad.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:44
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what happened was the the democrats elected a garbage candidate and a bunch of limpdicks rallied behind her because they are fanboy idiots who think politics is a console war. hi i'm tezzor and i'm smarter than you
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Nov 11, 2016 06:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Maybe Clinton wasn't that qualified after all, unlike Trump, who managed to find the best people who correctly identified the fact that he was gonna win based off hidden voters. They thought he was gonna lose
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Nov 11, 2016 06:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Maybe Clinton wasn't that qualified after all, unlike Trump, who managed to find the best people who correctly identified the fact that he was gonna win based off hidden voters. I find it hard to believe that someone who served in the Senate for eight years and was Secretary of State for four was unqualified. gently caress, even Sarah Palin had more credentials than Trump.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:53
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Qualifications are meaningless when being part of the establishment is bad.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:52
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Jenner posted:That or there has also been talk of establishing a universal basic income. Both have their merits though I think the Soviet/Chinese style state industries would be better because of our "bootstraps bitch" culture. Reagan successfully demonized the poor subsisting on the system with his welfare queens myth and now a lot of people view not working/the inability to work, regardless of the situation, very negatively. As such, most people would prefer to go to a job where they are doing something and can have the illusion of productivity over being paid to stay at home and do jack poo poo. It is a even more grim situation than many people will admit. Personally, I don't think mass state employment or a GMI/basic income are going to happen in this country and it is already in a silent crisis. The mechanics that got us here aren't going to change and as much as we will try to promote another bubble, it isn't going to bring us long term economic stability. Private companies aren't going to do anything that will hurt their bottom lines which means they will drive down wages and promote automation as much as possible (although in that case start up costs are a barrier of entry). To be honest I think the wheels are going to grind until it really does look like the situation is near-hopeless and by then it will probably be too late. One thing I just don't think our political system (which brought us both Hillary and Trump) is really capable of the governance the country needs. Trump is going to do plenty of damage then we may get another bland democrat who will slow down the damage a bit until the cycle begins again. The Republicans are winning (even if they have been co-opted by Trump), why would they change? The Democrats obviously need to change but I am very pessimistic from what I have seen that there is going to be the complete reconstruction that the party needs.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:01
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hey big ups to d&d for going five consecutive posts without denouncing the electorate as morally incompetent for not supporting some loving war somewhere
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Nov 11, 2016 07:05
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We clearly should have nominated Tezzor's parachute account.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:06
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Jenner posted:
~$14t pa in personal income, ~350,000,000 people = $40k pp pa i mean adjust the numbers around but I did math earlier in a previous uspol thread and like the top .1% - 120,000 households or so - make a total of like $3t or so.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:06
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Fojar38 posted:We clearly should have nominated Tezzor's parachute account. i couldnt have done worse lol
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Nov 11, 2016 07:09
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thanks to fojar, whiskeydick, etc for defending and entrenching the illegal spying apparatus trump is going to take over in three months btw
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Nov 11, 2016 07:11
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Donald Trump is going to see your hentai folder
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Nov 11, 2016 07:17
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Fojar38 posted:Donald Trump is going to see your hentai folder donald trump is going to see you're a truffle shuffle spaz with big salami nipples and he will RT the pics from the NSA database and you will cry and lactate
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Nov 11, 2016 07:22
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How are we 6 pages into this conversation without any discussion of the role played by the emergence of the social media/facebook echo chamber? The vast majority of us are living in discursive walled gardens that cut all of us, left and right, off from the real plight of people in disparate social networks while we operate under the illusion that we're more connected than ever before. Though the outcome is obviously a complex and multifactorial process (with faux class consciousness being an effective counter to neoliberalism dressed up identity politics being the biggest single contributor) I'd appreciate some analysis on that front.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:25
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MixMasterMalaria posted:How are we 6 pages into this conversation without any discussion of the role played by the emergence of the social media/facebook echo chamber? The vast majority of us are living in discursive walled gardens that cut all of us, left and right, off from the real plight of people in disparate social networks while we operate under the illusion that we're more connected than ever before. Though the outcome is obviously a complex and multifactorial process (with faux class consciousness being an effective counter to neoliberalism dressed up identity politics being the biggest single contributor) I'd appreciate some analysis on that front. One of the big strategic takeaways from this election in my opinion is that net-game absolutely matters. Obama pioneered it in 2008 and Trump managed to compensate for his complete lack of ground game with Pepe the loving Frog.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:28
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Fojar38 posted:One of the big strategic takeaways from this election in my opinion is that net-game absolutely matters. Obama pioneered it in 2008 and Trump managed to compensate for his complete lack of ground game with Pepe the loving Frog. Don't forget Clinton's campaign that hilariously tried to paint Pepe the Frog as a nazi. What the gently caress was that about lol? Also, all the name calling of Trump supporters by Clinton's campaign and the media probably just made people sympathize with Trump and his supporters even more. Shaming people who you know nothing about doesn't generally look good. Not all Trump supporters are racist, sexist xenophobes at all. Most of them probably just saw their country going to poo poo and Clinton didn't show herself as someone who could help them. And I can understand that quite well. Stockholm Syndrome fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 07:34
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Don't forget Clinton's campaign that hilariously tried to paint Pepe the Frog as a nazi. What the gently caress was that lol? accurate?
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Nov 11, 2016 07:35
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Star Man posted:I find it hard to believe that someone who served in the Senate for eight years and was Secretary of State for four was unqualified. gently caress, even Sarah Palin had more credentials than Trump. Don't you see that makes her a career politician. Like I'm holding my breath here waiting for a corporation looking for a CEO being worried a candidate has too much experience.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:39
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:accurate? Lol what?
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Nov 11, 2016 07:39
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Yep. It was even on Clinton's campaigns official website. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/26/how-pepe-the-frog-became-a-nazi-trump-supporter-and-alt-right-symbol.html no i was answering your question
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Nov 11, 2016 07:41
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:no i was answering your question Yeah I'm slow. But how do you come to that conclusion? How delusional are you?
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Nov 11, 2016 07:42
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Don't forget Clinton's campaign that hilariously tried to paint Pepe the Frog as a nazi. What the gently caress was that about lol? Also, all the name calling of Trump supporters by Clinton's campaign and the media probably just made people sympathize with Trump and his supporters even more. Shaming people who you know nothing about doesn't generally look good. Not all Trump supporters are racist, sexist xenophobes at all. Most of them probably just saw their country going to poo poo and Clinton didn't show herself as someone who could help them. And I can understand that quite well. Next time don't call racists racist, got it.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:41
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Pepe the Frog isn't inherently a Nazi symbol but he has absolutely been co-opted by the alt-right. Hillary was right to point that out.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:42
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Polygynous posted:Next time don't call racists racist, got it. So all Trump supporters are racists? See that's just the attitude that probably affected the election results... People don't like when they're being called something they're not. Democrats didn't seem to get that.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:44
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Fojar38 posted:Pepe the Frog isn't inherently a Nazi symbol but he has absolutely been co-opted by the alt-right. Hillary was right to point that out. Alt-right is a joke. Come on. And Pepe the frog is a loving meme. Don't make it political, because it's not. More retardation from the Clinton campaign is all that was.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:44
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Yeah I'm slow. But how do you come to that conclusion? How delusional are you?  idk
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Nov 11, 2016 07:48
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Alt-right is a joke. Come on. And Pepe the frog is a loving meme. Don't make it political, because it's not. More retardation from the Clinton campaign is all that was. lol memes aren't political ok
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Nov 11, 2016 07:48
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:lol memes aren't political Pepe the frog wasn't political. Some fuckheads tried to make it political, and Clinton's campaign latched on to it. That's all.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:48
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The uptick of violence and hate directed against minorities after Trump's victory is a pretty big indicator that, yes, a lot of his supporters actually are that racist. All this quibbling is over whether it was "campaign wrong" of Clinton to attack that, but it's really not "morally wrong" to do so.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:51
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:So all Trump supporters are racists? Of course not. And that's not even close to anything Hillary ever said, even with the "deplorables" thing. Awfully suspicious that that's where you go immediately though.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:52
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Alt-right is a joke. Come on. And Pepe the frog is a loving meme. Don't make it political, because it's not. More retardation from the Clinton campaign is all that was. But it seeps into the now post-truth politics, plenty of usually reasonable people further non-factual news stories starting from the alt-right because it reinforces their world view and end up trending on either facebook or twitter or whatever. We're in a post-truth political environment right now. Truth doesn't matter.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:53
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Stockholm Syndrome posted:Pepe the frog wasn't political. Some fuckheads tried to make it political, and Clinton's campaign latched on to it. That's all. death of the author
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Nov 11, 2016 08:14
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Trump is president. The GOP controls everything. We're arguing about memes. You guys don't remember the Bush years. You have no idea what's coming.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:27
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Huzanko posted:Trump is president. The GOP controls everything. We're arguing about memes. I remember the republic survived.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:31
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Every Dem got so caught up in whether or not the whole investigation/email thing was fair or unfair that they forgot that in winning elections, fairness doesn't matter. In politics, if someone has that much baggage you cut them loose, fairness be damned. Instead Dems decided she deserved the nomination no matter what.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:39
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Huzanko posted:Trump is president. The GOP controls everything. We're arguing about memes. it's gonna be worse than the bush years the republicans got even worse in 2010
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Nov 11, 2016 08:40
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Huzanko posted:Trump is president. The GOP controls everything. We're arguing about memes. I was there, it was good for my demographic until the economy went to poo poo, then it was still not too bad because of the MIC.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:42
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Manifisto posted:um, really? you guys actually want a supreme court that is more politicized than the current one? that doesn't give a poo poo about stare decisis and starts going back and forth on key constitutional questions from administration to administration? where the justices don't have the freedom to say "gently caress you" to the administration that appointed them, and the ones that come after that? where the "American People" includes nearly 50% of the country that affirmatively voted for a guy who promised to attack the freedom of the press? If it takes 20+ years to a court to respond to where the nation wants to go, the system makings of the court needs to go. Just think of what you are saying "wait an entire generation after you start electing people in office so you can have another generation of progressive legislation". That isn't feasible and never has been. Hence why FDR took extreme measures. There are reasons why the government is designed to move slow as molasses towards public opinion, and it isn't just to "keep the pot cool". Obviously we shouldn't have every president get a supreme court majority but there is a large in-between of that and what we currently have. Jenner posted:But I don't think we can, or could ever, afford either of these options. Even if we super taxed the rich and super gutted military spending and who knows what else. I just don't think we have the tax base/financial capital/investment to support that kind of system. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 08:44
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Ardennes posted:It is a even more grim situation than many people will admit. Personally, I don't think mass state employment or a GMI/basic income are going to happen in this country and it is already in a silent crisis. I think "silent crisis" is an apt term for what's going on in the United States (and perhaps elsewhere, but others will have to testify to that). I think it's a silent crisis of national sterility, that the political process has stalled out, that society and culture is both more varied in some respects and yet somehow more homogenized in others, and that the current momentum of the nation is less forward progress of some kind and grand gestures, and more a rearranging of what already exists, diminishing it all bit by bit (e.g. the angst that whites might feel about more minorities being around and in their communities is flipsided by minority resentment over white gentrification into their communities, especially after decades of maligning and neglect by the gentrifying class who, often, is tied in with the politically powerful class). Basically, what is there to believe in about America for many people? You're going to do your 40, 50, 60 hours a week (if not at one job, then trying to manage two part-time ones), and you might not make enough to strike out and make your own way. Even if you do, you don't feel certain about its longevity; forget putting down serious roots by buying a home, because that just ties you down when you need to have flexibility for the next downturn/downsizing/"I'm fed up and jumping ship" event you experience. And if you're part of the classes for whom property ownership has been more difficult, it's the same thing - you have to be ready to be upended because your landlord is raising the rent, or selling the property, or whatever. And it becomes tiresome, frustrating, existentially grinding. Maybe you have enough to eat and a roof over your head, but there's nothing to really salve the sense of dislocated and disinvested existence you might have. It's a year-by-year buildup; the 20-year-olds from ten years ago are 30-year-olds today. The pounding thought in the back of their heads is that they can't "Millennial" it up forever like this, not that they necessarily wanted to in the first place. Not when they're marching towards 40, then 50, then 60. Not when they feel there are fewer good jobs for them to get, despite their education, or they're working for comparatively meager wages and in debt. They went through the big recession like everyone else, were alive during the Bush II years, and basically have developed a view that the American government is ignorant and out-of-touch at best, when it's not overtly flaunting how it not only works for everyone else but them, but it works for already powerful interests who seek gain at everyone else's detriment. Maybe bank bailouts were necessary to try and keep the economy from going into a tailspin, or maybe not, but from the perspective of the average American, it sure looked like a bunch of already-rich fuckups were getting more money for loving up, while they were left with reduced hours and lost jobs and food stamps and limited unemployment benefits (both in duration and amount) through no fault of their own. It's not difficult to see how many potential voters, even if they're young and liberal and essentially anti-Trump, would basically be turned off from the voting process and not prioritize in that light. So far as they're concerned, the government is thoroughly corrupted and already not working for them or in their interests, and their vote won't change anything. They already believe they have to operate in the mode of there being no enlightened government working in the public interest, so voting is an irrelevant thing to do (assuming they even get the time and aren't being suppressed from doing so in the first place). So you have the governmental agnostics, for whom there might be a government working for them, but their gut instinct says it probably isn't. You have the progressive left in America and the Democratic voter base, who have taken the mostly patient and "pious" route of hoping that the party and the political system in general will be imbued with a proper spirit and rearrange itself to reflect the needs and desires of the masses; basically, patiently waiting for a miracle (or maybe a gaggle of messiahs) to redeem what has gone wrong and fulfill the promise of America. And then you have the Trump electorate, made up of the anxious right-wing I've mentioned in earlier posts, the spiteful racist bloc of course, and what I would call the "exultant" base who are already doing well and view Trump not as someone to restore the lost covenant of what they believed America to be about, but as someone who will unlock the path to greater personal success and glory. In a sense, the satanic bloc, motivated by raw self-interest; more money from lower taxes, more freedom to hire and fire people as they please, more of everything they want to do and gently caress you if you don't like it, because they have the law on their side now. Trump then, I guess, is kind of like an antichrist Martin Luther to the Republican Church - he basically said "We don't have to bother with all this tiptoeing around and sanctimony and looking holy and principled when we aren't, not when the stars are right for us to have a black Mass and make a play for true power!". It was heresy and risky, but I think for the voters who propelled him to victory, he presented one of those "What if?" questions: What would you do if you had been praying for a divine miracle for a long time, but the Devil was the one who did actually appear and answer you? I know it seems ham-handed to frame this in religious terms, but I think a lot of the unease that people have about Trump winning the election is what he represents about the spirit of America to them. Pride of place can occur right down at the street level, after all, so pride of nation (even if it seems kind of smarmy and sentimental and unrealistic in the rational sense) isn't something that strange, even if the nation itself frustrates one at times. We're faced with a strange third way, neither the conservative and religious theocracy that some might want or the stymied but slowly progressing liberal and secular society we might have believed was the course we were on. Trump represents a crisis of political heresy in the modern American context, even if the rhetoric he's used seems painfully familiar. And coping with that crisis, in light of the non-voting demographics I mentioned above, must now be their preoccupation, along with Democratic voters and progressives (though the latter group has been saying and acting on this sort of thing for a long time and been ignored for it, of course). Keeping one's head down in silent desperation and hoping things will get better through cynicism or merely voting isn't going to work any more, not when you have the three levels of the legislative branch in Republican lockdown for the next two years at least, and a potentially conservative-leaning Supreme Court for god knows how long. It's something I've realized, at least - there needs to be a new fervency built up, a cataloging of the forthcoming sins we will see, a rallying of the Democratic faithful to more than just the odd Sunday attendance (assuming they show up at all). It's time to begin a revival and cast off the fearful meekness; the devil already roams the land, and he will not necessarily be merciful even if you claim to follow him, and doubly so if you do not.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:55
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I love the think pieces about how "the democrats ignored the plight of poor working class whites!" when Trump beat Hillary in every economic demographic except < $50,000. This was middle class white America wanting to be told it was still in charge.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:23
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