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Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Grand Fromage posted:

They didn't do any writing as far as I know, JMS just thought it'd be a good idea to hire a duo to play the duo. I really liked that their humor wasn't funny since humor is so culturally linked, jokes from the future probably wouldn't work for us.

The jokes not making sense to humans in this era was indeed entirely intentional for that reason. I don't know if they did much changing, but they did change it so that Zooty spoke using his machine to keep up Teller's schtick of never speaking on camera.

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IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

I'm finally watching the Penn and Teller episode of Babylon 5. I always just skipped this episode.

Five minutes in, and apparently the Day of the Dead is an alien holiday.

-edit whoops, didn't notice people were already discussing it.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



I did like how they ended it kind of with a Steven Universe style "Hey don't worry, this isn't really canon :v:"

Delsaber
Oct 1, 2013

This may or may not be correct.

It's like Swedish meatballs: every civilization has its own Day of the Dead.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Data Graham posted:

I did like how they ended it kind of with a Steven Universe style "Hey don't worry, this isn't really canon :v:"

You know besides the laying the seeds for a betrayal

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.

CrcleSqreSanchz posted:

After the flash of light in "sleeping in light" the rest of the episode gets me. And then after that last shot I go back and watch the in-the-future part of the s4 season ender. Because it means more after seeing the end.

poo poo, I remember the first time that episode premiered in the UK, it was on at something ridiculous like two AM, and I had the first of my GCSE exams the next morning. Still watched it, and I still get misty eyed thinking back.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



:eyepop: Na'toth is back

This show sure does just roll with every actor availability curveball it gets thrown, huh?

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

That was the original actress too, not the replacement right?

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

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quote:

She was played by Julie Caitlin Brown in the first season (a last-minute casting change after Susan Kellerman walked off the set). Due to problems with the extensive makeup and prosthetics required to turn her into a Narn, Brown did not reprise her role for the second season of the series; similar problems had caused the departure of Susan Kellerman and, earlier, of Mary Woronov as Ko'Dath, who was to have been a regular character. For the second season, Brown was replaced by Mary Kay Adams. Executive producer J. Michael Straczynski quickly became dissatisfied with Adams' more understated approach to the role, and Na'Toth was written out of the series after appearing in two more episodes. Brown returned to reprise the role in the fifth-season episode "A Tragedy of Telepaths".

And because she was the actress JMS preferred due to her flamboyance, she spent this entire episode shell-shocked and barely spoke any lines above a whisper :iamafag:

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



"The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father": Jesus, I hope there's more to this season than this tedious telepath poo poo, because goddamn. I thought it would have been over with Byron but I guess not.

Bester's always fun to watch, but it only goes so far

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE
You're past all the rough stuff now

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
I remember back in the day, JMS would post a lot on Usenet boards and argue with people who said someone like President Clark could never rise to power, fascism couldn't possibly take over again, especially after another 200 years of progress, etc...

He would say that there's always the potential for it, point to several examples from history and say how it's a slow process of politicians seeding doubt and fear, and that it's not like a fascist dictator was simply elected overnight.

Welp...

DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Nov 9, 2016

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

DrBouvenstein posted:

I remember back in the day, JMS would post a lot on Usenet boards and argue with people who said someone like President Clark could never rise to power, fascism couldn't possibly take over again, especially after another 200 years of progress, etc...

He would say that there's always the potential for it, point to several examples from history and say how it's a slow process of politicians seeding doubt and fear, and that it's not like a fascist dictator was simply elected overnight.

Welp...

God drat it not here too.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004



College Slice

Deakul posted:

God drat it not here too.
the rock cried out no hiding place

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Deakul posted:

God drat it not here too.

B5 has a lot of politics in it, it's not exactly surprising.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Tsaedje posted:

You're past all the rough stuff now

drat, you weren't kidding with this. "And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder" is another one of those really superbly put together pieces, really nicely written and nicely directed. Good framing device, beginning and ending with the candle, and all the really pretty deep focus camera work in those scenes. And then later an up-shot on Londo's hair as he watches the ships fly overhead, lol.

Drunky Garibaldi is a surprisingly good subplot, in fact it would have felt really lame and unfinished if the show had finished out without addressing that part of his personality. He also seems like he'd be a fun guy to get a pizza with, wouldn't have called that; would have thought he'd be the mean drunk type

B5 has so drat many of these scenery-chewing British villains, but where on earth did they dig up that guy who plays the Centauri minister? drat but in a show full of punchable faces, he somehow manages to rise above.

And on that same subject, what is it with the audio mix in this show for the quiet close-up scenes where characters really chew over these lines? G'Kar especially, but also all these one-off guys with the voices you just want to eat with a knife and fork. The enunciation their mike setup somehow picks up is just otherworldly. The show makes me want to take voice acting lessons just to learn how to deliver a line like "I didn't say anything :shepface: " and make it sound like reciting scripture

What's up with the title on this one, though? Is it a quote from something? Sounds really pretentious if it's just made up to sound like one.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

Data Graham posted:

What's up with the title on this one, though? Is it a quote from something? Sounds really pretentious if it's just made up to sound like one.

Straczynski never missed an opportunity to be pretentious or crawl up his own rear end.

Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

gOTTA gO fAST

King Doom posted:

poo poo, I remember the first time that episode premiered in the UK, it was on at something ridiculous like two AM, and I had the first of my GCSE exams the next morning. Still watched it, and I still get misty eyed thinking back.

In fact, Channel 4 decided it would be a great idea if the final five episodes were shown on weekday mornings in the middle of The Big Breakfast. Because what everyone wanted to hear was Johnny Vaughan and a house full of people talking very loudly over the end credits.

After many complaints they ran them again...in the 1pm graveyard slot.

Season 5 really did kicked around the schedules as I remember. They didn't know what to with it. At one point it was on at lunchtime on a Sunday.

Vord
Oct 27, 2007
So I'm planning on introducing a friend of mine to bab5 this weekend with a couple of episodes. Going to show him the Babylon 4 episode in season 1 but would like to follow it up with a season 2 episode. Anyone have a good suggestion for one? Preferably one that doesn't involve earth's slow descent to fascism and the civil war as I want him to go into those parts blind.

Willing to bend that rule however. Mostly just want an episode that'll leave him with more questions then answers.

Vord fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Nov 11, 2016

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I don't remember the name of the episode but the one with Morden going around asking everyone what they want might be a good S2 choice.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Grand Fromage posted:

I don't remember the name of the episode but the one with Morden going around asking everyone what they want might be a good S2 choice.

That's S1.

A lot of the S2 episodes I think about recommending have a lot of answers. Points of Departure, In the Shadow of, The Long Twilight Struggle, Fall of Night (which was the first episode I saw)...

I think I'd recommend The Coming Of Shadows. It won a Hugo, after all.

Kinger
Sep 30, 2003

I'm sick of my head doing things.
I'd go with The Long Twilight Struggle, myself. G'kar's speech about freedom is memorable and stirring and yet he manages to deliver it without outright devouring too much of the scenery.

I don't remember if the scene between Vir and G'kar in the elevator is in the same episode or not ("Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead.") but it's always been one of my favorite scenes in the series and is also worth showing.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Grand Fromage posted:

I don't remember the name of the episode but the one with Morden going around asking everyone what they want might be a good S2 choice.

Signs and portents, and I agree with you, it's the first episode 1 to really advance the plot and it received good ratings,.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Milky Moor posted:

That's S1.

Oh really? Well, I still might go with that instead of a S2 one then. That sets up a ton of mysteries and should intrigue a new viewer.

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Maelstache posted:

In fact, Channel 4 decided it would be a great idea if the final five episodes were shown on weekday mornings in the middle of The Big Breakfast. Because what everyone wanted to hear was Johnny Vaughan and a house full of people talking very loudly over the end credits.

After many complaints they ran them again...in the 1pm graveyard slot.

Season 5 really did kicked around the schedules as I remember. They didn't know what to with it. At one point it was on at lunchtime on a Sunday.

While they did gently caress up with the final 5 episodes of Season 5, they did make up for it by starting a repeat run of the entire series late night on Sundays!

Vord
Oct 27, 2007
Thanks for all the quick suggestions everyone but

Grand Fromage posted:

I don't remember the name of the episode but the one with Morden going around asking everyone what they want might be a good S2 choice.

Angry Lobster posted:

Signs and portents, and I agree with you, it's the first episode 1 to really advance the plot and it received good ratings,.
Signs and Portents had slipped my mind when I was thinking of episodes and has just secured the number 2 spot.

One more question now. Could someone please think of a good title for ? So far all I can think of is "It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these menthol lights." But I'm not real sure about that one.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe
I have no specific idea but in this picture he looks like he'd be right at home in a B5 version of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas :haw:

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Vord posted:

Thanks for all the quick suggestions everyone but


Signs and Portents had slipped my mind when I was thinking of episodes and has just secured the number 2 spot.

One more question now. Could someone please think of a good title for ? So far all I can think of is "It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these menthol lights." But I'm not real sure about that one.

Step one: twirl mustache
Step two: eloquence
Step three: ????
Step four: prophet!



Step one could also be "chew scenery"

Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

gOTTA gO fAST

Zaroff posted:

While they did gently caress up with the final 5 episodes of Season 5, they did make up for it by starting a repeat run of the entire series late night on Sundays!

Except for the fact that they didn't want to cough up for the repeat rights for Season 4 & 5, so the repeat run stopped dead after the cliffhanger ending of Za'ha'Dum

Still, at least we got to see Crusade!

:negative:

Maelstache fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Nov 11, 2016

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

One thing that bugs me about Babylon 5 is that Sheridan never bothers to warn Londo about the evil mind control parasite aliens. This is despite Franklin and Marcus encountering one on Mars. He can't even make a connection between them and the Centauri attacking shipping lines.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

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"Objects in Motion": Okay, so it feels like they're kinda just running out the clock here?

I mean, I rather enjoy the idea of a space sci-fi serial show that doesn't end in a vast climactic sturm-und-drang cacophony of interstellar war, where instead you just get people gradually saying goodbye and bowing out of the story. But it's taking so long to get through the end of everyone's arcs (and Londo's is just going to... end there, is it? With the spider on his neck and everything?) that it feels like JMS was just kind of sick of all the meta drama of dragging this thing back and forth across the finish line and wanted it to go away.

One thing I still think I'm missing: right before Londo got the spider, what was the transmission he triggered? Why didn't the Drakh notice and take action? As far as I can tell it just alerted Sheridan that something mysterious was going on in the upper echelons of Centauri politics and they should draw unclear conclusions from it, and good thing those conclusions were "don't blow everything up". But I thought that transmission was supposed to be more of a chessmaster disarm move on Londo's part, something a bit more significant to the story? The wiki barely even mentions it. :confused:

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



"Objects at Rest": Ah, okay then.

And hahahahahaha in the end Lennier couldn't deal with Delenn being with That rear end in a top hat the Football Team Captain. First Marcus, now Lennier; are the Rangers just the Interstellar Brotherhood of the Fedora or what?

Christ, this thing's going to end up with more finales than Return of the King

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Data Graham posted:

"Objects in Motion": Okay, so it feels like they're kinda just running out the clock here?

I mean, I rather enjoy the idea of a space sci-fi serial show that doesn't end in a vast climactic sturm-und-drang cacophony of interstellar war, where instead you just get people gradually saying goodbye and bowing out of the story. But it's taking so long to get through the end of everyone's arcs (and Londo's is just going to... end there, is it? With the spider on his neck and everything?) that it feels like JMS was just kind of sick of all the meta drama of dragging this thing back and forth across the finish line and wanted it to go away.

One thing I still think I'm missing: right before Londo got the spider, what was the transmission he triggered? Why didn't the Drakh notice and take action? As far as I can tell it just alerted Sheridan that something mysterious was going on in the upper echelons of Centauri politics and they should draw unclear conclusions from it, and good thing those conclusions were "don't blow everything up". But I thought that transmission was supposed to be more of a chessmaster disarm move on Londo's part, something a bit more significant to the story? The wiki barely even mentions it. :confused:

You saw the end of his story when Sheridan got unstuck in time. This is just how it got there.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
The other part of Londo's story is in the Centauri Prime novel trilogy, which sadly is difficult to find these days.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

The other part of Londo's story is in the Centauri Prime novel trilogy, which sadly is difficult to find these days.

It's also terrible, don't bother trying to track it down.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

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Welp, "Sleeping in Light"—yeah, that does get you right here, doesn't it?

Again, props for the stunt of there not being really any actual story there—just a curtain call. That probably counts as pretty avant-garde now that every drama series has to end on a huge climax, and won't take the time to spend an entire episode just being sentimental. Walter White's gotta go out in a blaze of glory. The Colonials have got to find Earth. Even TNG had stakes in its finale. This was just pure indulgence. And hey, it earned it.

I wonder if Howard Shore was listening to this soundtrack when he was writing the ending music for LotR, though.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Hahaha holy gently caress, what the hell is this garbage music in "A Call to Arms"

Evan H. Chen... what happened to Christopher Franke?

mojo1701a
Oct 9, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Data Graham posted:

Hahaha holy gently caress, what the hell is this garbage music in "A Call to Arms"

Evan H. Chen... what happened to Christopher Franke?

Whatever it is, it's everywhere in Crusade.

Dirty
Apr 8, 2003

Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates
Completely missed this, but Ron Thornton is dead at 59: http://deadline.com/2016/11/ron-thornton-dead-vfx-babylon-5-star-trek-emmy-1201858946/ :(

The CG on B5 is the reason I know how to texture, model and animate. It's hard to explain just how visually striking and exciting B5's FX were back in the 90s.

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Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



mojo1701a posted:

Whatever it is, it's everywhere in Crusade.

So is it just me, or is Crusade like, really bad.

I'm two episodes in and first of all the music makes me want to slit my throat, but also there's just weird as gently caress pacing and characterization issues, and I don't just mean Bill Lumbergh as captain (lol).

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