|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I really like the theory that Dolores is a total red herring and is never going to amount to much in regards to self-awareness and Maeve is the real deal. Remember the line Ford said about evolution just being mistakes over and over again.
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
If you re-watch the show from the beginning, there are lots of little clues that will lead you to believe Arnold is Ford's AI other half who helped immensely in the creation of the park. William at one point says "you get the feeling whoever designed this place didn't think much of people." Later Ford bemoans the fact that when he and Arnold created the park, they had a bet that everything would be equalized, and Ford created more than 100 "hopeful storylines" that no one took part in. Ford is a person who thinks people are good, and Arnold is an AI who knows they aren't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 17:44
|
|
|
IMB posted:If you re-watch the show from the beginning, there are lots of little clues that will lead you to believe Arnold is Ford's AI other half who helped immensely in the creation of the park. It has been a while but didn't Ford say he and Arnold had a bet going, that "we designed 100 hopeful storylines"? It never says what side Ford was on that bet. He might have won when no one did them. I bet they kept the Prospector plot line out of those 100 hopeful, and Ford is still waiting for anyone to do it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
Boner Zone posted:Another thing I noticed that might support the Bernard = Arnold theory is when Bernard is talking with Dolores about whether he should restore her or let her continue to try to achieve consciousness, he tells her a story about his son and basically describes himself as a parent of hers, but Bernard wasn't around when the first hosts were built and Stubbs says Dolores is the oldest in the park. But who knows if that just means she's the oldest one still in service or literally just an improved version of the original host. And I guess it could just be Bernard thinking of himself as her parent for helping her achieve consciousness but it seems a bit on the nose I think it's likely that they're talking about hosts in the sense of the personality\brain rather than the physical body, we were told it takes thousands of hours to 'build a host' and we know for a fact that this doesn't refer to rendering a host body so I think it's rather safe to assume that an individual host can be transferred into new bodies. Which is really somewhat of an inevitability given the sort of abuse host bodies take all the time, are you going to throw away a thousand man hours whenever some guest decides to turn a host's head into pulp?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
I don't believe that every single person would go straight for the murder stories. Even in video games today you get people who don't want to do anything bad to the pixels on the screen. There's going to be some rich person who goes there and just wants to experience a western and does nice things.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
JossiRossi posted:I bet they kept the Prospector plot line out of those 100 hopeful, and Ford is still waiting for anyone to do it. Which explains why Ford replaced Logan with Hector - he stabbed Old Bill!  Boner Zone posted:The Ford/Bernard scenes are all menacing as gently caress upon rewatch. He reiterates to Bernard that the hosts aren't conscious at the end of that scene, then immediately brings up his son's death and seems to be studying his reaction, like he's trying to assure himself that Bernard isn't actually conscious but is just feeling what he's programmed to. This is why I like Bernard = Arnold. Ford's cruel actions toward Bernard reveals their relationship as rival contemporaries and sheds some light on Ford's own personality.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
Collateral posted:He pulls out his knife....to rape her? I don't think so. "Cuts deep" suggests he is doing something to them. Well, someone has to be putting the satellite uplinks in the hosts' arms...who better than the guy who has free run of everything. Dolores even dreams about pulling a thread/wire out of her arm during the fortune teller sequence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
I'm still pissed at JJ Abrams for helping wste hundreds of hours I'll never get back folowing every episode of Lost, only to find out they were dead all along. Maybe the spaceship blew up on the way to Westworld and they're all in theme park afterlife. Meanwhile, in the Uk we're also watching Humans, which is about synthetic people who start to become, er, aware....
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
Lol @ everyone looking back at past scenes and seeing things that were never there and acting like it's proof of something. Even if the theories might be true, its waaay to easy to inject any kind of meaning into any kind of scene or phrase spoken that it makes all these exercises useless. If Ford was the AI and Bernard a human playing the strings ya'll would be looking back and finding clues to this in every episode. The author is dead indeed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
Phil TheHeat posted:I'm still pissed at JJ Abrams for helping wste hundreds of hours I'll never get back folowing every episode of Lost, only to find out they were dead all along. I think that Westworld (so far) deals with it more in a more interesting way. In Humans is all about a magical code you upload to the robots and bang, they are conscious and able to feel Also Humans deals with computers in a very dumb TV way (last episode the hacker girl dragged "the code" to a command line to install it). That was even worst in the original though
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
When William and Logan first arrived, they had a brief conversation about investing in the park. In the last episode it was mentioned that they wanted the situation fixed before the board arrived, isn't it possible that William and/or Logan are on the board or even in charge of it? I don't know the significance of this, but perhaps Logan has held a grudge since getting beaten up in the park.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:06
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:I don't believe that every single person would go straight for the murder stories. Even in video games today you get people who don't want to do anything bad to the pixels on the screen. There's going to be some rich person who goes there and just wants to experience a western and does nice things. My group of friends is split evenly between, "why would anyone ever stop godmode murdering?" and, "why would anyone ever stop constantly loving the robots?" With one guy who wonders why anyone would leave the spawn room with Talulah Riley.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Phil TheHeat posted:I'm still pissed at JJ Abrams for helping wste hundreds of hours I'll never get back folowing every episode of Lost, only to find out they were dead all along. He didn't have anything to do with Lost and he has nothing to do with Westworld. He uses his brand and money to start tv shows made by other people. His involvement with Lost was limited to bankrolling it after hearing a pitch about it being a scripted soap-opera version of Survivor and after learning that some of his buddies were making it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Phil TheHeat posted:I'm still pissed at JJ Abrams for helping wste hundreds of hours I'll never get back folowing every episode of Lost, only to find out they were dead all along. JJ wrote one episode of Lost and wasn't involved at all in the production of the show past the middle of the first season's production cycle when he went Hollywood and worked on Mission Impossible III. I don't know how involved he is with Westworld's production but it's pretty safe to say that he had nearly nothing to do with how disappointing Lost's final season was. Edit: hah, obviously beaten. I'd also point out that JJ was involved in many movies that really didn't do the whole "mysteries on top of mysteries" poo poo people hold him accountable for, I think it's Damon Lindelof who was responsible to that cause he also did the same thing in Prometheus.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:13
|
|
|
JJ Starts things but never finishes them. I'm looking forward to see who directs the next Star Wars movies.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Kontradaz posted:Lol @ everyone looking back at past scenes and seeing things that were never there and acting like it's proof of something. Even if the theories might be true, its waaay to easy to inject any kind of meaning into any kind of scene or phrase spoken that it makes all these exercises useless. If Ford was the AI and Bernard a human playing the strings ya'll would be looking back and finding clues to this in every episode. Going back and looking for clues in the writing for a surprise revelation isn't exactly "I told you so" masturbation or anything. Presumably because the revelation happened, the show was written with that in mind, and it's fun to go back and see how it affected earlier scenes. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
Doug Sisk posted:When William and Logan first arrived, they had a brief conversation about investing in the park. In the last episode it was mentioned that they wanted the situation fixed before the board arrived, isn't it possible that William and/or Logan are on the board or even in charge of it? I don't know the significance of this, but perhaps Logan has held a grudge since getting beaten up in the park. will is like upper middle management, he's probably not on the board. Logan, maybe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:20
|
|
|
Somebody posted an image from the finale that explains a lot about Arnold and the maze You guys are gonna hate Season 2.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Skizzzer posted:will is like upper middle management, he's probably not on the board. Logan, maybe. "Your best day was when you got those three letters. Ee Vee Pee. And you thanked me for it."
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Phil TheHeat posted:I'm still pissed at JJ Abrams for helping wste hundreds of hours I'll never get back folowing every episode of Lost, only to find out they were dead all along. Just so were clear here: You know they weren't dead all along and the crash actually happened and they actually survived it, right?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:I never watched the original movie, but afaik the machines went rogue by accident there too, right? It wasn't a deliberate attempt to create self-awareness? Tje original movie was basically Jurassic Park with robots instead of dinosaurs There was a good line though about how "we don't evwn fully understand how they work anymore, a lot of these machines were designed by other machines"
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:He didn't have anything to do with Lost and he has nothing to do with Westworld. He uses his brand and money to start tv shows made by other people. His involvement with Lost was limited to bankrolling it after hearing a pitch about it being a scripted soap-opera version of Survivor and after learning that some of his buddies were making it. Jonathan Nolan is even worse though
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
Quick Draw McGraw posted:Jonathan Nolan is even worse though
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Josh Lyman posted:He's not worse than Damon Lindelof though. Agreed but that's a lowass bar
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Quick Draw McGraw posted:Jonathan Nolan is even worse though People aren't crapping on Nolan due to Person of Interest's popularity on TVIV.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
JJ Abrams isn't capable of writing complicated through-plots. See: every single one of his movies
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
waffles beyond waffles posted:That was the best line of the show. I literally said "No loving way", out loud, to myself, with no one else in the room. I loved how they also shot the door in shadow as Bernard is looking into the darkness at the front of the house, then Teresa mentions the door and after she mentions it and it goes to a wide shot of both of them we can see the door. It's a way to hint at what's coming (i.e. we don't see the door because it's Bernard's perspective) and to hide the fact that Bernard really doesn't see the door. He's also not looking at the door at that moment, so it could be taken either way. I can't recall, isn't the door also absent when Bernard goes into the house and find's Ford's family?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:I can't recall, isn't the door also absent when Bernard goes into the house and find's Ford's family? Yup.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
Honestly I never noticed the door line. If I was investigating this remote house and the first thing I saw was a whole unregistered host family my attention would probably go towards them and not this random door in the corner - I just thought he missed as I would probably not notice it either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
If there are two timelines, when was the last time we saw Delores in the 'present'?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Jonathan Nolan is a fine writer, the ending of Lost had it's problems but was not the catastrophic disaster people made it out to be, J.J. Abrams has very little to do with the pound-for-pound writing on this or Lost (he's basically the money man), and not every surprise or twist is a gimmick worthy of scorn. It's okay to like things sometimes, even things that had major problems with them but were still good overall. You don't actually have to hate everything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Evernoob posted:I'm still confident Anthony Hopkins will pull a Sean Bean and be killed off before the end of the season. Considering they filmed it years ago and Anthony Hopkins undoubtedly has good enough lawyers to enforce a "Well if you're calling me back to film after 3 years, I'll need $3m per episode" standard, I am 99.999% certain he will not be returning for season 2.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:If there are two timelines, when was the last time we saw Delores in the 'present'? It's open to interpretation. The moment where she shoots rebus and escapes the farmhouse when her memory glitches is definitely in the present, afterwards all her scenes with Will are allegedly in the past but there are the weird moments where she seems to space out and we see that she's all alone while we expect her to be with Will in episode 5 (at the opening of the episode she stands at the graveyard outside Pariah alone when suddenly Will & Logan are there, supposedly the Will\Logan bits are in the past while the Dolores alone bit is in the present). At the end of episode 5 we also see her briefly alone on the train, which would also be in the present.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
IMB posted:If you re-watch the show from the beginning, there are lots of little clues that will lead you to believe Arnold is Ford's AI other half who helped immensely in the creation of the park. Ford is the AI. Arnold is the real person.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:It's open to interpretation. The moment where she shoots rebus and escapes the farmhouse when her memory glitches is definitely in the present, afterwards all her scenes with Will are allegedly in the past but there are the weird moments where she seems to space out and we see that she's all alone while we expect her to be with Will in episode 5 (at the opening of the episode she stands at the graveyard outside Pariah alone when suddenly Will & Logan are there, supposedly the Will\Logan bits are in the past while the Dolores alone bit is in the present). At the end of episode 5 we also see her briefly alone on the train, which would also be in the present. Ah, so the idea is that she's making the same journey as her past self?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:Ah, so the idea is that she's making the same journey as her past self? Yeah that the current line of speculation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
FuhrerHat posted:Ford is the AI. I am making this assumption based on production considerations and general sci-fi tropes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
FuhrerHat posted:Ford is the AI. I like this too, either way it works. The show is big on duality and I dont think the creators of the park are simply going to be good-cop, bad-cop. One of them will definitely not be exactly what we expect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
Junkenstein posted:Ah, so the idea is that she's making the same journey as her past self? Or if Two Timeframes is false, then her quest with William is the recreation of the past, following in her own footsteps. This would explain why she made the drawing on the train of a landscape she'd "never seen before" (she has).
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:35 |
|
|
FuhrerHat posted:Ford is the AI. No no no. Ford is William and Arnold is the MiB, but 30 years in the future past.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2016 20:39
|
|
