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POOL IS CLOSED
Jul 14, 2011

I'm just exploding with mackerel. This is the aji wo kutta of my discontent.
Pillbug

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

So, a question about ARCs. Who should they go to other than your mailing list? Reviewers? Goodreads contacts? Friends and family? Passerbys on the street because the crazy incoherent guy can't stop ranting about publishing? I'm aiming to get the second novel at the beginning of next year, and I had a lot of success as a free download, but not many takers on the mailing list. ARCs are one of the things from my last release process that I completely whiffed on, and I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

Yes.

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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Not helping :argh:

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

Just get the book into the hands of as many people who are likely to read it as possible. Try and connect with other authors in your genre on Facebook - they'll likely be willing to let their ARC lists know about your books.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Bardeh posted:

Just get the book into the hands of as many people who are likely to read it as possible. Try and connect with other authors in your genre on Facebook - they'll likely be willing to let their ARC lists know about your books.

Yah, but isn't that the point and purpose of the free giveaway at launch? I guess I'm confused as to what the difference is and why.

TheForgotton
Jun 10, 2001

I'm making a career of evil.

freebooter posted:

New Year's resolution: keep a journal.

Aaron King writes these words at the brink of his adult life: a long, hot summer between high school and university, lazing on the beach or playing video games with his twin brother Matt.
But this will be no normal year. A terrifying plague is spreading across Australia, transforming people into ravenous monsters. Quarantines and curfews and evacuations are ordered; but day by day, the threads of society fray more and more.

As communication networks fail, as the power goes out, as the government collapses and the streets become awash with zombies, Aaron and Matt find themselves plunged into an apocalyptic struggle for life and death. Swept up in a tide of desperate refugees, beset by violence and haunted by strange dreams, the King brothers are about to find out exactly what it will take to survive the RISE OF THE UNDEAD.

If the premise and plot are fairly routine (Dawn of the Dead-style infectious walking dead, etc.), play to the strengths of your characters or your setting. How is the survival for the King twins going to be different from any of the hundred thousand zombie books, movies, and comics out now? Does being Australian give them some advantage than if they grew up in Chicago, New York, or London? I need some more details about your protagonist's personality and peril so I can care.

Also, your title is about as bland as it gets.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

Yah, but isn't that the point and purpose of the free giveaway at launch? I guess I'm confused as to what the difference is and why.

ARCs and free launch giveaway are not the same thing. You want to do both usually. I'm going to hit the ARC side in this post.

Okay - so here's the deal with ARCs:

The goal your ARCs is to get people to read them before the book is out. That's what the "advance" part of "Advance Review/Reading/Whatever Copy" is about. You specifically want to get your book into the hands of as many people who are likely to give your book a good review (or even any review that isn't a bad one, depending on your strategy) as you can, before the launch. You then want to follow up the day of launch (and maybe the day before, too, if feel like it) with a reminder and an easy link to leave a review for your book on Amazon. Don't make them click and hunt. Give them a direct link to the review page if you can, and a direct link to your product page otherwise.

The reason you want to do this is so that your book looks more appealing at launch, rather than after reviews trickle in. Your first week to two weeks of sales are critical for the longer-term success of your book, and honestly, I'd even say that the first three to five days are the critical period. The window for success keeps narrowing.

If you rely on freebies for your reviews, you'll probably get something like this:

- 10,000 people download your book over the first three days. (Scale this to the popularity of your genre, author name, luck, phase of the moon visible over Amazon HQ, etc.)
- 1000 actually read it while the other 9,500 hoard freebies.
- 500 actually finish it. (Not saying your book is bad, but finish rates are terrible on books picked up by new readers of an author.)
- 5 actually review it within the first week.
- 10-15 review it like a loving month and a half later, when they finally got around to reading it.

By the time you've reached 15-20 reviews, your book is ranked #450,000 in the store, it's not on the HNR lists, GR has stopped recommending it as a new release, and you've long since moved on to your next project.


Now, let's go with ARC readers. ARC readers typically (any number of the following):

- Know the author (Grandma, your fellow author buddies, etc.)
- Like the author (Your mailing list subscribers.)
- Like the genre the author is in (You'd better make damned certain this is true, or you're a dumbass.)
- Love reading and want to get their hands on everything they can. (Just a general ARC reviewer thing -- they had to go to extra effort to get your book and often extend outside the usual sales channels)
- Have far higher review rates than the average (Tautological and all, but hey.)

You find 200 people interested in ARCs of your book.

- 175 will read it.
- 100 will finish it.
- 50-70 will review it
- 30-50 will post their reviews within a day or two of when you reminded them it was due.

By the end of your freebie period, you now have 30-50 reviews instead of, if you're lucky, 5. There is another factor that makes the ARC approach better than freebies, though, that I haven't touched on yet...


-Like the author / like the genre

That's one of the big kickers here: You not only find ARC reviewers, but you find ARC reviewers who are inclined, by your estimation, to like your work and review it positively. If you go ask reading groups on GoodReads if they'd like copies of your book, you check the review breakdown from the readers who ask for copies. Did someone give lots of 4 and 5 star reviews? Get that girl a copy! Do they have tons of 2-3 star reviews, 1 stars, lots of snobby "I'm a reading perfectionist" style reviews? Don't even answer her PMs or posts. You aren't in the business of soliciting bad reviews. Those five reviewers from your freebie listing? At least one of those fuckers left a 1-star "DNF" review, one left a negative review for the wrong book on your page, and the other three are a coin flip because without fail, everyone everywhere is an idiot. :v: Don't leave the success of your book up to fate and luck if you can avoid it. Skew the odds in your favor by finding your fan-base and giving the book to the people who actually are likely to enjoy it.

The same goes for picking and choosing your ARC people based on genre. You clearly don't want to give a romance novel to fans of military fiction. You don't give a science fiction novel to regency romance fans. You don't peddle your epic nine-part Game of Thrones ripoff to the Jane Austen Goodreads fangroup. Pick reasonable stuff! Is your work a high-fantasy Tolkienesque piece of whatever? Find people who like high fantasy, etc etc. Do you write the same sub-genres of romance as Colleen Hoover or Stephanie Meyer? Go to appropriate NA and PNR boards and find your readers there. This should go without saying, honestly.

Blogs: Mostly useless, but if you have a reliable one who responds in a decent amount of time, go for it. Again, look for in-genre and positive reviews. Don't expect fast turnaround.

Your Mailing List: Unless you have a seriously large mailing list, your mailing list is not to drive sales (yet). It is to drive reviews. Run a query on your list for your most active mailer readers (or all of them if the list is small enough), and ask them if they want ARCs. 200 sales from your mailing list doesn't mean poo poo in terms of profitability/success of your book, but 100 positive reviews from the same list? That's most likely (see previous phase of moon caveat, whether the month is Glitchtember, etc) going to translate into far more bucks than the 200 mailing list sales. (Get 2,000+ people on your list and you can probably have the best of both worlds -- give freebies to your most active subscribers for reviews, and send the rest new release mailers. :D)


Does this make ARCs make more sense? I'll answer questions if anything is unclear.

Sundae fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 19, 2016

The Fuzzy Hulk
Nov 22, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT CROSSING THE STREAMS


So if I give out copies before it is published, will Amazon let people review it if that have not bought it on Amazon? They can just log into their Amazon account and review it even though there is no record of them purchasing it?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

The Fuzzy Hulk posted:

So if I give out copies before it is published, will Amazon let people review it if that have not bought it on Amazon? They can just log into their Amazon account and review it even though there is no record of them purchasing it?

Yes. The only difference from another customer's perspective is that the reviews from non-purchasers do not show the "Verified" tag next to it.



Technically, Amazon's policies ask readers to identify if they got the book for free in exchange for an honest review. Most ARC readers will do this b/c they're used to it. Nobody really cares either way.

I cannot comment on whether Amazon's algorithms treat the two review types differently. I don't know.

The Fuzzy Hulk
Nov 22, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT CROSSING THE STREAMS


Thank you! I have like, 70 books published and have never done that. I just assumed you couldn't review something on Amazon you didn't buy. I have one up for preorder for Black Friday, I think I will be sending out some copies this week to people, see how it goes.

Space Taxi
Oct 31, 2016
Thanks for your advice. How is this satire cover and blurb?



quote:

Strain 5 is poison. Everyone eats it. Only the designers of this genetically modified food know the danger. And those guys are jerks.

Orchestrated at the highest levels of society, the nation’s food supply has been hijacked and contaminated in the first step of a global plot.

George Miles, a scientist, discovers something is wrong and joins grocery delivery driver Dustin Fowler on the trail through a world turning insane: terrorist wristware, inflatable farm equipment, a woman following her dream to become the world’s fattest person and Tolkien-themed Pyramid schemes all stand in their path to save everyone from a monstrous fate.

They’ll do whatever it takes to stop the conspiracy, even if they have to slap the lunch out of everyone’s hand, one sandwich at a time.

Space Taxi fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 21, 2016

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Instead of
Only the designers of this genetically modified food know the danger. And those guys are jerks.

Try
Only the designers of this genetically modified food know the danger -- and those guys are jerks.
Or
Only the designers of this genetically modified food know the danger, and those guys are jerks.


I think your start, while intending to be punchy, just felt jumpy with all the full stops.

Conversely, the 3rd para is a just one long sentence. I get that you used a colon but it's not strong enough for me.

Perhaps something along the lines of
"George Miles, a scientist, has discovered something is wrong. Can he and delivery driver Dustin Fowler race the clock and save a society gone insane? Terrorist wristware...blah
(maybe choose only 3 things?, or maybe list 2 "and more"? I don't know your genre! what do other blurbs do?)
stand in their way on the path to save the the world."
(You could keep "from its monstrous fate" but I think that's a little too long still.)


I like the cover, it stands out, it doesn't look deadly serious. Does it fit your genre norms?
I'm interested to know why you switched the focus to the scientist instead of the delivery driver.

I don't have experience selling books yet, it's just my thoughts from lurking here

Blue Scream
Oct 24, 2006

oh my word, the internet!
Amazon's got this nasty new habit of only showing "verified purchase" reviews unless you go in and deliberately click otherwise saying that you want to read all the reviews. You can see that a product has, say, 10 reviews, but Amazon's page might only show you the 1 verified purchase when you actually go to look. I can see a lot of readers getting annoyed and not bothering to look further when it doesn't work the first time.

In more positive news, I just broke my first $100 in sales. Tiny step, but it feels good to me :dance:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
That was a really helpful intro to ARCs. Thank you! Although now I'm sad because my first book only got 700 free copies moved and fifteen reviews in a month, so I'm basically a failure at my life's dream and everything I've ever wanted to do. :negative:

So in lieu of that, I'll just write smut. :heysexy:

I know it's been mentioned the market for girl-porn is already going down (heh heh) these days, but I think I might be able to pull this off. How long is the average romance novel? Because I can churn out 30k of a demon plowing a goth-curious girl only for her to abandon his cheating rear end for the manly vampire she met at a club, and all without breaking a sweat.

Although the word plowing will not be used unless she's a snarky bad rear end chick, which of course she will be.

Why have I already thought this through in like five minutes oh gods I'm infected save yourselves SAVE YOURSE

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Ignore the 10k thing. I pulled that number out of my rear end.

I mean, you can definitely do that, but focus on the trend and not the absolute values in that post.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

Because I can churn out 30k of a demon plowing a goth-curious girl only for her to abandon his cheating rear end for the manly vampire she met at a club, and all without breaking a sweat.

Although the word plowing will not be used unless she's a snarky bad rear end chick, which of course she will be.


This wouldn't make any money. You have to write exactly what is selling. Go look at the top 100 on Amazon, and look at THOSE romance books while keeping in mind everything I said before about anomalies.

I'm not going to effort post here, but the most common mistake I see people do on romance is hearing that "romance is what makes money," then writing something where two people fall for each other and waiting for the cash to roll in, all without even looking at other romance books that are selling RIGHT NOW. Just because True Blood and Twilight was popular eight years ago doesn't mean something similar to it still sells. Even if you looked at what sold six months ago you'd be pretty off the mark--you have to keep up with the market.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

angel opportunity posted:

This wouldn't make any money. You have to write exactly what is selling. Go look at the top 100 on Amazon, and look at THOSE romance books while keeping in mind everything I said before about anomalies.

I'm not going to effort post here, but the most common mistake I see people do on romance is hearing that "romance is what makes money," then writing something where two people fall for each other and waiting for the cash to roll in, all without even looking at other romance books that are selling RIGHT NOW. Just because True Blood and Twilight was popular eight years ago doesn't mean something similar to it still sells. Even if you looked at what sold six months ago you'd be pretty off the mark--you have to keep up with the market.

Sorry, but I disagree with this. There's very much a market for dark urban fantasy romance right now. Maybe it's not four figures a month you can get from vanilla romance, but the demand is definitely there. Pretty much every urban fantasy female reader I've talked to has at least one smutty book about werewolves on her eReader. It's still a thing. And, might I be so bold as to say the current shift is towards demons, because I keep an ear in the community :smug:

Anyway, if it's not worth it, it's not worth it.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

Sorry, but I disagree with this. There's very much a market for dark urban fantasy romance right now. Maybe it's not four figures a month you can get from vanilla romance, but the demand is definitely there. Pretty much every urban fantasy female reader I've talked to has at least one smutty book about werewolves on her eReader. It's still a thing. And, might I be so bold as to say the current shift is towards demons, because I keep an ear in the community :smug:

Anyway, if it's not worth it, it's not worth it.

Shifters and vampires aren't the same thing. I make a lot of money doing romance; I know the market. If you want to do romance to make money, do the romance that makes money. Show me three demon romance novels by three different authors that are sub-1k rank right now and aren't Bella Forest

In romance as a whole, anything lower than four figures per month is very bad. All the authors in my writing group who do romance in the right sub genres are usually making close to 10k/month or higher. So saying that demon poo poo "won't make four figures but is still good" is NOT good compared to simply choosing to write in a genre that sells big.

If you don't care about money, write what you love with no regard for the market. If you are trying to sell out and make big money, don't sellout halfway and write demon romance.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

Sorry, but I disagree with this. There's very much a market for dark urban fantasy romance right now. Maybe it's not four figures a month you can get from vanilla romance, but the demand is definitely there. Pretty much every urban fantasy female reader I've talked to has at least one smutty book about werewolves on her eReader. It's still a thing. And, might I be so bold as to say the current shift is towards demons, because I keep an ear in the community :smug:

Anyway, if it's not worth it, it's not worth it.

Of course there's a market for it. There's a market for everything, especially in Romance. What's important is the size of the market. For a long time, contemporary Bad Boy in various flavors has been top dog, and it still is. Just take a look at the top 100 romance books on Amazon - there's the odd sprinkling of sci-fi and shifters, a few wholesome contemporary books, a couple of Bella Forest books there as usual (but she is an outlier and it's not worth targeting her readership), and then a whole bunch of muscled and tatted dudes doing bad boy stuff. I'm about to start a new pen name, and you'd better believe it's going to be contemporary bad boy.

If you want to write demon romance because you like demon romance and a bit of money on the side is just gravy, then sure, go for it. If you want to actually make decent money (and there is still decent money to be made despite Amazon being shitlords and the market being very crowded) then you need to go where most of that money is.

E: I do have to admit that there are more sci-fi books there than I expected to see, though. Didn't someone post a while back about making some decent money from it?

And if this: https://www.amazon.com/Alien-Genera...D0YAYSM4R6HHGJD can rank as high as it is, the barrier to entry really doesn't seem that high. The cover is bad and the writing is worse....but it's 137 in the store and making very decent money. Interesting...

Bardeh fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 20, 2016

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


angel opportunity posted:

Shifters and vampires aren't the same thing. I make a lot of money doing romance; I know the market. If you want to do romance to make money, do the romance that makes money. Show me three demon romance novels by three different authors that are sub-1k rank right now and aren't Bella Forest

In romance as a whole, anything lower than four figures per month is very bad. All the authors in my writing group who do romance in the right sub genres are usually making close to 10k/month or higher. So saying that demon poo poo "won't make four figures but is still good" is NOT good compared to simply choosing to write in a genre that sells big.

If you don't care about money, write what you love with no regard for the market. If you are trying to sell out and make big money, don't sellout halfway and write demon romance.

What are your favorite sub genres of romance these days? Bad boy bikers have been my thing for awhile, but I'm needing a break for at least a book or three

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

LionArcher posted:

What are your favorite sub genres of romance these days? Bad boy bikers have been my thing for awhile, but I'm needing a break for at least a book or three

'sup bad boy biker buddy. I have a bad boy mafia series mostly written that needs publishing, but I'm kinda sorta tempted now to write a sci-fi series too.

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I just stoped doing sci-fi because while you CAN get top 200, it's wildly variable. The chances of getting like...top 50...in sci-fi is also way lower. However, the chance that a shorty book where you duck some stuff up randomly spiking to top 200 is also higher than in badboy.

I did a series of like six books and my peak ranks were like (in order): 600, 200, 650, 650, 700, 750

The earlier books held rank a lot longer. That series was enough to hold my average monthly income around $10k. In sci-fi, facebook ads are way more expensive than in badboy, but I only ran like $40/day in fb ads and my daily income hovered between $300-400. I think it's actually a viable genre to go for--you can also get away with doing like 35k word novellas.

The risk though is that you peak at like 2k or 3k rank and in the back of your mind know that the same effort in badboy would have peaked higher than that. I was afraid if I continued my sci-fi series the ranks would keep dropping and the ranks would drop even faster and faster.

I just launched my first badboy book and it's top 100 right now, which is the best rank I've ever hit. I'm really glad I took the risk and bailed on sci-fi, but it is currently a fairly viable thing with a big enough audience (though still not as big as badboy).

There is like...soooo much poo poo you can do wrong and gently caress upon romance; picking the right genre isn't some instawin button, but picking the wrong genre is definitely and instalose button

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


angel opportunity posted:

I just stoped doing sci-fi because while you CAN get top 200, it's wildly variable. The chances of getting like...top 50...in sci-fi is also way lower. However, the chance that a shorty book where you duck some stuff up randomly spiking to top 200 is also higher than in badboy.

I did a series of like six books and my peak ranks were like (in order): 600, 200, 650, 650, 700, 750

The earlier books held rank a lot longer. That series was enough to hold my average monthly income around $10k. In sci-fi, facebook ads are way more expensive than in badboy, but I only ran like $40/day in fb ads and my daily income hovered between $300-400. I think it's actually a viable genre to go for--you can also get away with doing like 35k word novellas.

The risk though is that you peak at like 2k or 3k rank and in the back of your mind know that the same effort in badboy would have peaked higher than that. I was afraid if I continued my sci-fi series the ranks would keep dropping and the ranks would drop even faster and faster.

I just launched my first badboy book and it's top 100 right now, which is the best rank I've ever hit. I'm really glad I took the risk and bailed on sci-fi, but it is currently a fairly viable thing with a big enough audience (though still not as big as badboy).

There is like...soooo much poo poo you can do wrong and gently caress upon romance; picking the right genre isn't some instawin button, but picking the wrong genre is definitely and instalose button

Wait, top 100 in whole store or sub cat? Also, what size mailing list and how much money are you throwing at FB ads?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Pretty sure whenever AO or I talk ranks, we're talking store, not category. I don't care if I'm #1 in the category if I'm #5,000 in the store, because it means I'm still not making rent this month.

(Or it would mean that if I wasn't a lazy rear end in a top hat spending most of his time writing interactive fiction and making mosaics these days instead of writing novels...)

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Meh, I'm gonna stay on my side of the fence, then. I've got ideas, but who the hell knows if they'll work.

Thanks, everybody. Back to the coffee shop I go!

Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it
Also short-form (like 8-10k) Sci-Fi Erotica is dead. I stick some of my stuff in the science fiction section, just because it has elements that could vaguely be considered science fiction-y, and it frequently shoots up to the top of the category (and gets me a snazzy "best seller" banner on that book) because the category stinks so bad as a whole. Looking at the top 20 right now, it's full of random bundles and poo poo that is obviously not sci-fi in any way.

Edit: I read the first two of those Ice Planet Barbarians books when I was on vacation, and they're a lot more "Clan of the Cave Bear" then Issac Asimov.

Popular Human fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 20, 2016

Space Taxi
Oct 31, 2016

simplefish posted:

(maybe choose only 3 things?, or maybe list 2 "and more"? I don't know your genre! what do other blurbs do?)
stand in their way on the path to save the the world."
(You could keep "from its monstrous fate" but I think that's a little too long still.)

I like the cover, it stands out, it doesn't look deadly serious. Does it fit your genre norms?
I'm interested to know why you switched the focus to the scientist instead of the delivery driver.

I've seen some blurbs in the genre with lists. I don't remember seeing any that had "and more" at the end but it might work.

I tried to design the cover to have a similar style to the ones I was seeing on the best seller lists. I hope it fits.

The characters act as a duo and have similar importance in the story. With the latest blurb I tried to make it clearer what the story was about in a hopefully less boring way. Shifting the focus to the scientist made it a little easier to do that.

Having said that, I still have a hard time telling the difference between a mediocre blurb and a good one.

Space Taxi fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Nov 21, 2016

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart

Popular Human posted:



Edit: I read the first two of those Ice Planet Barbarians books when I was on vacation, and they're a lot more "Clan of the Cave Bear" then Issac Asimov.

Yeah, Ice Planet Barbarians is mostly the "barbarian" part. If you check out the Vi Voxley stuff it's much more space operaish. The series I did was also very space opera style. The further I got into the series the more I deviated from the norms of romance, which probably hurt me and is also why I'm trying to stay away from doing series in the future.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
I think I am going to go along with my planned side project. All the characters and basic plot are there,I might as well put it on paper and see what happens under a different pen name. If the results are horrible then I will trap door the book off Amazon and disavow all knowledge.

I think that I'm actually fine with being niche/small time since this isn't my livelihood. Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna half rear end it---otherwise nobody reads it---but I think I'm okay with not making thousands upon thousands of dollars if people read the book in sufficient amounts and like it. :)

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Good luck. Hope it goes well! :) There's nothing wrong with niche markets at all as long as you have your expectations aligned with the possible results.

quote:

If the results are horrible then I will trap door the book off Amazon and disavow all knowledge.

Nothing wrong with that, either. I have a binder full of women failed projects / pen names from my first several attempts at self-publishing. I should really burn some of this old fantasy stuff; heaven help me and most of humanity if it ever sees the light of day again.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

angel opportunity posted:

Yeah, Ice Planet Barbarians is mostly the "barbarian" part. If you check out the Vi Voxley stuff it's much more space operaish. The series I did was also very space opera style. The further I got into the series the more I deviated from the norms of romance, which probably hurt me and is also why I'm trying to stay away from doing series in the future.

Yeah, I want to write a sci-fi, but probably not one of those ones which is basically 'shifters in space'. If Vi Voxley can make money with more action-oriented space opera, then I might well give it a go because I could actually have some fun writing it, unlike generic bad boy book #33 (oh god i'm so sick of bad boys I just want something else to get popular)

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Sundae posted:

Good luck. Hope it goes well! :) There's nothing wrong with niche markets at all as long as you have your expectations aligned with the possible results.

I think I've actually got something here, but we'll see. I'm going to start with my research with the Succubus Blues series and branch out from there. (#796 in the Gothic Romance series!) Plus, being genre fiction lets me play with reader expectations a little more. I can get away with a decently characterized series instead of a monthly throwaway corset-ripper.

quote:

Nothing wrong with that, either. I have a binder full of women failed projects / pen names from my first several attempts at self-publishing. I should really burn some of this old fantasy stuff; heaven help me and most of humanity if it ever sees the light of day again.

My very first novel has been buried in a deep dark hole and will never see the light of day until I finally decide to rewrite it. It was the unfortunate result of a younger, more naive me and a con man's publishing mill pouncing on that. There's only two people in the world I seriously, legitimately wish death on, and he's one of them.

Anyway, that pen name's dead to me, and the book itself is toxic. I could fix it and be happy with it again, but a re-release would require pushing through the initial black eye, and it's basically one Google search away from the whole house of cards collapsing.

Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Nov 21, 2016

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Is it wrong that I laughed myself stupid when the "How to Write a Romance Novel" link in the OP came back blank? :newlol:

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

Is it wrong that I laughed myself stupid when the "How to Write a Romance Novel" link in the OP came back blank? :newlol:

Ah, I guess that page has been pulled now. Thanks for the update; I'll remove it.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Sundae posted:

Ah, I guess that page has been pulled now. Thanks for the update; I'll remove it.

No worries! It was more the thought of "How do you write a romance novel? :iiam:" that got me.

psychopomp
Jan 28, 2011
I tried writing a romance novel once. Turned into a cyberpunk thriller without so much as a romantic subplot.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

psychopomp posted:

I tried writing a romance novel once. Turned into a cyberpunk thriller without so much as a romantic subplot.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Self-Publishing Goons: Started Romance, Ended Up Cyberpunk Thriller

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


If anybody is thinking of updating the OP, can I recommend Chris Fox's books? They are short, most are available in KU, and they offer good advice that can be applied to most genre's. he just released a new guide that I haven't read yet, but will be doing this holiday weekend.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

LionArcher posted:

If anybody is thinking of updating the OP, can I recommend Chris Fox's books? They are short, most are available in KU, and they offer good advice that can be applied to most genre's. he just released a new guide that I haven't read yet, but will be doing this holiday weekend.

Can you provide a link / general blurb? I'll throw it into the OP if so.


Edit: Or does someone want to make a new thread since this one is 2.5 years old now?

angel opportunity
Sep 7, 2004

Total Eclipse of the Heart
I've never read Chris Fox's stuff but I was on this bullshit forum with him where there was a lot of drama. The guy who made the forum had it as invite only, and Chris Fox was one of the "big names" there for whatever reason. The guy who ran the forum made this huge deal about ~~HIS SECRETS~~ which he openly shared. His secrets were not super tangible or anything; it was basically just "write to market."

The guy running the forum kept having weird meltdowns for stupid reasons, but the final nail in the coffin was when he did a podcast and was eating candy during the podcast. Someone commented that maybe he shouldn't eat while recording a podcast, and he raged out and closed the forum.

Somewhere along the way Chris Fox decided to publish his book "Write to market" and the forum owner guy got super mad that it was basically taking all of "his secrets" and profiting from them on Amazon.

Again I've never read anything Chris Fox wrote, but I'm generally skeptical of any static book giving advice about self-pub. The big two reasons for my skepticism is 1) the market changes so fast that many parts of a book giving advice would quickly become outdated and 2) if the person has such great advice, why don't they just follow their own advice and rake in the money? Why sell the book of advice that increases competition?

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Aaronicon
Oct 2, 2010

A BLOO BLOO ANYONE I DISAGREE WITH IS A "BAD PERSON" WHO DESERVES TO DIE PLEEEASE DONT FALL ALL OVER YOURSELF WHITEWASHING THEM A BLOO BLOO
I've read Chris Fox's authorship books and honestly if you just search by user in this thread for angel's most recent 'write to market' posts you're getting all the same information for free, with a lot less padding. There's no real secret formula or insight that you'll gain from his authorship books, he just takes a bit more time to pad you out to the same conclusions and findings that we already know about - pick a category, find out if it's selling well, look at what's selling best, write a story that hits the expected beats, and choose a cover that matches what the readers are looking for in that genre. Repeat. The only info that no-one ever seems to go public with is the research part, which you really should be doing yourself from scratch each time. Markets change over time, so there'd be no point reading the research for a successful book that came out a year ago if you want to write a bestseller today.

He also has a Youtube channel where he pretty much walks you through how to write a book to the market. I haven't watched any of his 'motivational' videos but his videos on plotting and structure are interesting if nothing new, and the videos of him writing a novel in 21 days are pretty cool to follow along with.


angel opportunity posted:

if the person has such great advice, why don't they just follow their own advice and rake in the money? Why sell the book of advice that increases competition?

I forget which book or blog post of Chris' he addresses this, but he does talk about exactly this somewhere. The authorship books are a marketing tool for him, and a way to build secondary revenue streams through things like speaking and lecturing and stuff. He uses the success of his novels to push his authorship books, which use his novels as examples, strengthening the 'legitimacy' of the loop. Plus there'll always be way more aspiring authors than actual authors - you make more money selling shovels during a gold rush than mining gold, poo poo like that. It's all a strategy for long-term income so poo poo like a KU3.0 or genres dying doesn't tip the boat too much.

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