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King Burgundy posted:You can explain away a rb on someone if it gets watched. But if RB and Kill both came into Tobbs and he was watched there would be no way anyone would believe that wasn't coordinated. But if he gets watched and not killed, he's going to come in and say I was roleblocked, and what's your excuse for roleblocking the elite bodyguard? Like I want him to live, but I'm not going to jail him because his role is too valuable to be roleblocked. If you get a couple people visiting him and they get watched one of them probably gets outed as scum, but it's not going to sink the whole team. I still think either you risk it and do both or you leave him alone and hope for the best, and I personally think it's go all in. Elite bodyguard is dangerous as hell for scum.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:21
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I think the scum team just wanted to prevent a possible protection role from acting, so they were less likely to miss out on a kill. It is entirely possible that the idea of a watcher never crossed their minds.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:24
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:A gamble. On the off chance they were killed, painting those of us who openly voiced dissent to the chores vote as scum. I don't love this reasoning. Like, as a town watcher, I want to catch the person doing the kill so I want to guess who the scum are going to kill. I understand not everyone is like me, but this still doesn't fit for me. This seems more like the reasoning scum would have. They want to identify the other moving town power roles so target someone scummy to see who targets them. But I don't really want to cuddle a possible town watcher first among my scum picks. Still leaning AN/TM first.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:33
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King Burgundy posted:I don't love this reasoning. Like, as a town watcher, I want to catch the person doing the kill so I want to guess who the scum are going to kill. I understand not everyone is like me, but this still doesn't fit for me. This seems more like the reasoning scum would have. They want to identify the other moving town power roles so target someone scummy to see who targets them. It's a gamble either way. I target someone Whose said or done little or target someone who is almost guaranteed to be visited by someone? I know it's not the most Orthodox approach, but who would you have watched?
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Nov 21, 2016 20:35
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:It's a gamble either way. I target someone Whose said or done little or target someone who is almost guaranteed to be visited by someone? I know it's not the most Orthodox approach, but who would you have watched? I said already. Tobbs. If he's town, he is the most threatening player left on the board for scum to deal with.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:36
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That works for N1 when there weren't any real strong NK targets, but absolutely not for N2.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:37
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Well my justifications are what they are here. I've said all there is to say.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:38
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King Burgundy posted:I said already. Tobbs. If he's town, he is the most threatening player left on the board for scum to deal with. And if you'd been watching him(and not jailed) you'd know if he was really roleblocked/who did it.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:38
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Well my justifications are what they are here. I've said all there is to say. Armed with the new claims/info that has spilled into the thread, have your reads changed at all?
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Nov 21, 2016 20:39
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King Burgundy posted:Armed with the new claims/info that has spilled into the thread, have your reads changed at all? I'm willing to admit that if asiina is a jailer and n1 jailed anarc, that there has to be a scum blocker. That's the only possibility where asiina and I are both town.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:42
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I'm willing to admit that if asiina is a jailer and n1 jailed anarc, that there has to be a scum blocker. So who are your thoughts on who scum would be then?
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Nov 21, 2016 20:44
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King Burgundy posted:So who are your thoughts on who scum would be then? I'll have to get back to you.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:45
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King Burgundy posted:So who are your thoughts on who scum would be then? Why are you assuming that Asiina is a Town Jailer?
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Nov 21, 2016 20:52
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Jedit posted:Why are you assuming that Asiina is a Town Jailer? Have you not been paying attention to my posts?
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Nov 21, 2016 20:52
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Here is the most recent example of why:King Burgundy posted:Yeah, I hesitate to make meta reads on her since I know she went out of her way to establish a new meta at some point, and I'm not sure where she is at currently. But the meta AN was standing behind was the old meta I'm familiar with. And that version of her would never make effort cases like the one she made on you.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:53
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Jedit posted:Why are you assuming that Asiina is a Town Jailer? Also, you realize I was responding to a post where AA was admitting he and Asiina could both be town? Like, this post is really bad Jedit on a variety of levels.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:56
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I'm willing to admit that if asiina is a jailer and n1 jailed anarc, that there has to be a scum blocker. Since there were two unique actions failed last night, I'm not ruling this out. I think there definitely is a scum roleblocker, and reading the interactions in the mason doc give me a pretty solid town read on Asiina and KB. (I wasn't sure on KB until I had the opportunity to read the doc, a lot more sure of this now.) I'm not sold that you're town, but there's enough ambiguity here that I would be a lot more comfortable with my original lynch choice today in TM. That said, if there's any ambiguity over ANarc, then she needs to die before LYLO, and I think there's more than ambiguity here. Her waiting until the very end of the day to come in after being absent for much of D2 was really suspicious to me, and that's in addition to getting the train rolling on Asiina and then fading as I noted in a previous post. A scum executioner wins the game, and if she's scum then there's nothing to say that her "one-shot" claim is the truth.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:57
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King Burgundy posted:So who are your thoughts on who scum would be then? Provided Asiina is town, but not necessarily requiring that she is. c pig and Flying leatherman. Interactions with asiina are minimal but in general their actual effort in this game is worse than TMs IMO. It seems fakes in FLs case or unabashedly detached in pigs. Outside of that tobbs heavy handed flavor casing rubbed me wrong but I didn't speak against it because he was the only person remotely not making GBS threads all over my idea and challenging the status quo at the time. And even with your posts, unless your masonry is confirmed there is no guarantee asiina is town. I'm willing to say she is contingent upon us lynching a scum role blocker.
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Nov 21, 2016 20:59
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Here's how this day/night will play out though... A. I get lynched. I am confirmed town. A claimed bodyguard, a mason, a jailer, and a tracker are outed... B. I don't get lynched. A claimed watcher, a bodyguard, a mason, a jailer and a tracker are outed... Either way, town is going to be at a loss, because while we've put the pieces together to make our picture clearer, scum just got targets. And are still probably presently lying through their teeth
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Nov 21, 2016 21:04
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We could mass claim. 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:04
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I'd believe the exe to be third party more than scum or town IMO, but I think trying to get to the bottom of our actions is most beneficial right now.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:04
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King Burgundy posted:We could mass claim. Might be for the best at this point, but how will we determine whose claims are bullshit and whose claims are legit.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:05
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Might be for the best at this point, but how will we determine whose claims are bullshit and whose claims are legit. Probably couldn't today. But would lock people into provable things as the game goes on.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:07
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Might be for the best at this point, but how will we determine whose claims are bullshit and whose claims are legit. Isn't this always a concern with massclaiming? Part of getting everything out in the open is so that we can verify actions going forward and catch people lying on future nights.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:08
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King Burgundy posted:We could mass claim. Fine. I'll claim if we make it a rule everyone has to claim or they get lynched 
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Nov 21, 2016 21:08
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Like, I would have waited at least another day normally. But now that so much is out there, it feels beneficial to me to finish. Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about that, as well as everything else we've discussed.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:09
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I'm with KB in that I wish we hadn't claimed but now that the ball is rolling, might as well keep going with it. Like we already have some good scum kill targets so there's not really a risk of outing yourself and getting killed over some other things claimed.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:14
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Also something that was brought up in the doc but hasn't been said in the thread. There could be 3 or 4 members of the scum team. 15 is a strange number in that 4 scum is slightly too many but 3 is quite a bit too few if we're aiming for a 25% scum ratio. I still think it's AA/ANarc/TM and if I had to pick a 4th it could be CPig, but it's hard to say when he's been so absent.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:17
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Asiina posted:Also something that was brought up in the doc but hasn't been said in the thread. There could be 3 or 4 members of the scum team. 15 is a strange number in that 4 scum is slightly too many but 3 is quite a bit too few if we're aiming for a 25% scum ratio. Well to set you all on the straight path provided town can still afford a mislynch, its in our best interest to lynch me and refocus our efforts in light of the knowledge that all my opinions were in fact genuine.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:21
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Also apparently Glowku is in this game who knew
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Nov 21, 2016 21:23
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Well to set you all on the straight path provided town can still afford a mislynch, its in our best interest to lynch me and refocus our efforts in light of the knowledge that all my opinions were in fact genuine. Naw. If you and TQ are both town, you are our remaining hunting style roles with the Cop dead. I'd rather make scum deal with you and come back to you later in the game if for some reason you haven't been killed.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:24
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Once again,  We keep having these conversations in the doc then bringing them to the thread. I still think AA is scum, but it's a confirmable enough role that I'm willing to wait on it and if you're town either scum will waste their roleblock and/or kill on you or you get some good results, or we just wait to catch you in a lie. ##unvote
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Nov 21, 2016 21:30
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##unvote About to leave the doctor's office, but I'd rather vote pig than TM. Both are mostly null, but Pig reinforces that he's making no effort.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:38
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I think I'm going to go back to ##vote ANarc. I think her posting has been scummy and that having two town vote messer uppers is just too weird that I'm almost sure she's scum. Now that I've remember CPig and Glowku are in this game I'm less sure that it's TM and if it really is 4 scum I would rather get almost definite scum rather than look amongst the people I'm less confident about. It'd be nice to find the roleblocker today, but I'd rather go with the safer bet.
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Nov 21, 2016 21:39
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I really recommend people go back and read the two games that I referenced earlier, Cat Lady Mafia and Gotta Go Fast, to see what I'm talking about w/r/t meta stuff and TM. There's a really clear difference in playstyle. I really think that's the main distinguishing thing for me as opposed to say cpig, who is reading to me this game the same way as he does every game. Glowku is a valid concern, I think, but I haven't played enough games with him to really peg his playstyle this game from an alignment perspective. I'll ##vote AN today because I think it's reasonable, but I still have a stronger read on TM than on the other low content posters in this game.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:11
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Would be nice if someone besides Me, Asiina, FL, TQ and AA would talk. King Burgundy posted:Interested in hearing what everyone else thinks about that, as well as everything else we've discussed.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:46
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I said I'd claim if others would claim and we agreed to lynch the non-claimers
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Nov 21, 2016 22:49
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Infinitum posted:I said I'd claim if others would claim and we agreed to lynch the non-claimers Yeah, just waiting on the others to say something for that part. What do you think about the rest? Has anything said changed your gut opinion on Asiina? Who else do you think is scum? Etc.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:50
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To be honest, I haven't had a proper reread of the thread yet so I'm withholding my opinion until then. For the moment I'm taking a back seat a little bit to see what pops up. The reason I'm not claiming yet is I might have evidence to contradict some people and I'd like to see more info on the board before revealing my hand. And that's legit information not "HO HO HO I HAVE SO MUCH TO REVEAL! JUST NOT TODAY!" information
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Nov 21, 2016 22:54
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I would also like to hear from others. There has been more than enough content today to comment on.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:12
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