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Zomborgon posted:I don't know much about trains, but I'm pretty sure that a two-header doesn't need loops. You can easily do linear stations with only minimal signalling, which tend to take up less space and ease arranging things. Yeah, when I built it my thinking was a row of stack and long inserters unloading onto a belt would be the fastest method and the loops were my attempt to keep the unloading area clear. I'm ashamed to say it wasn't until I got logistics up and running that I started to think about chests in general as anything but a place to dump end results that didn't need to go anywhere like solid fuel and blue conveyors. The initial station didn't have the loop or the top track but I couldn't get the two-header to head west off the bottom track and then reverse into the station like I had envisioned. I've never played TTD or any game like it so the trains are stretching my brain a bit.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:00
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FadedReality posted:I'm up to 25 hours on my first save and only have 5 or 6 researches left before rocket silos after I took a detour into upgrading my logistics bots and the giant mess I'm trying to untangle now that I know requester chests are a thing makes me want to restart and do it better. Essentially (I'm sure I'm missing a detail but) regular signals allow trains to pass if the block in front of them does not have a train in it. CHAIN signals only allow trains to enter them if there's no train currently in the block AND there's a signal on the other side that will allow the train to LEAVE the block as well. Chain signals can also show a blue light, graphically - they'll turn this color when there are multiple paths out of the block and only some of them are available. Chain signals go in front of stuff like intersections, where you want to be sure the train completely leaves the block (and doesn't end up keeping other trains from passing). EDIT: If you can swing the materials, I think it's a lot less of a headache to just create separate trains for the raw ore and finished plates. Ignoranus fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 00:25
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Ignoranus posted:I think it's a lot less of a headache to just create separate trains for the raw ore and finished plates. I like this idea. Complex signalling and track switching sound like something to consider in the next run when I actually plan ahead. Also, I was watching some tutorials on YouTube and the woman doing them was using some interesting belt techniques I'd not considered: A quick diversion to fill the other side of the belt  Siphoning a single material off of a line using one underground belt  Using underground belts to bring materials in on the same side as the output with no long inserters 
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Nov 29, 2016 01:28
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Intro to Chain Signals Blue train and Red train are going north:  As they travel up, Blue is allowed to go through the crossing since the block ahead is clear:  No big deal, really, as Red will soon move along allowing Blue to clear the junction but, in the meantime, other trains can arrive:  Let's try that again with chain signals. As before, Blue's next block is clear, but the signal (strategically placed behind the crossing) checks the one after that too and since that one is occupied, it's a no go for Blue.  Green is thankful for good engineering: 
seravid fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 02:03
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Or you can just put a splitter after half of the machines and make the non-inserted side run back onto the belt. https://wiki.factorio.com/images/Transport_belts_balance1.gif
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Nov 29, 2016 02:06
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Zomborgon posted:Or you can just put a splitter after half of the machines and make the non-inserted side run back onto the belt.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:11
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Man, I'm bouncing back and forth between having a great time and being very frustrated putting together my brand-new reactor setup. Mostly the former, occasionally the later - I'm using landfill to make a nice area to pull water from and I'm going to set up a bunch in parallel, trying to aim for a 1:1 ratio of fission:breeding for optimum uranium efficiency. I assume this shouldn't end up being too insane, there's just a sizeable investment of materials involved and for some reason I'm only producing concrete a one-minute drive away from my base by car.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:14
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FadedReality posted:I like this idea. Complex signalling and track switching sound like something to consider in the next run when I actually plan ahead. have this: 
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Nov 29, 2016 02:19
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Zetsubou-san posted:have this: Ooo, I like it.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:14
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zedprime posted:That leaves it as half capacity at most because its all got to ram through a single lane of a splitter. The zigzag is less raws to build for higher capacity but its a 3x2 footprint instead of 2x2. But sweating over a 3x2 vs 2x2 doesn't happen all that often. If you put it halfway through an assembler output line built to saturate a given belt speed, the splitter version should have the exact same effect as the pure belt version. When unsaturated, the product does split unfavorably as you say, but will quickly change to simple lane-swapping so long as the second half is productive. The 2x3 version is, however, mostly a patch when you really want the 3x3 assemblers to be packed as closely together as possible, thus the one saved tile allows for the output inserter where a belt would otherwise go. Using the 3x2 requires one extra space between assemblers, which can mess with the usual Factorio mindset. (  )Of course, I barely ever actually saturate belts and mostly just see what's backing up and what's dry, so I could be entirely wrong. Screw ratios (except obsessive oil math).
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Nov 29, 2016 06:30
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No, you'll have one and a half saturated belts; the last quarter of your belt will be doing nothing at all. The splitter way would work if there were "aggressive" inserters that would hold up a belt on their side when depositing.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:44
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Unreal_One posted:"aggressive" inserters that would hold up a belt on their side when depositing. Ah, yes, I forgot that bit of priority. Thanks for the reminder, I'll correct my headmath. When I last played for any length of time I began to use dual-sided factories for anything that saturates, largely removing the issue. Hence the memory degradation.
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Nov 29, 2016 06:48
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As someone who just picked up factorio and is now drowning in the mid-game (oh lord oil OH MAH GAWD TRAINS) I appreciate the example posts. Makes things easier to swallow.FadedReality posted:A quick diversion to fill the other side of the belt I figured this one out myself  Or maybe there was an example of it in the beginning missions of the New Hope campaign. I forget despite playing them yesterday. Zomborgon posted:Ah, yes, I forgot that bit of priority. Thanks for the reminder, I'll correct my headmath. When I last played for any length of time I began to use dual-sided factories for anything that saturates, largely removing the issue. Hence the memory degradation. Your earlier post confused me a bit too. 'Why in the world are you saturating an output belt before you're finished outputting?' That's the main reason I haven't found a use for the splitter method since I too try and saturate my output belts as much as possible.... Although now that I think of it I have some non saturated belts I can now saturate with it... FURTHER DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE I GO!
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Nov 29, 2016 07:59
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For train signals, easiest way for me is to just remember the following: Put a regular signal after the intersection. Put a chain signal before the intersection. You can do more insane and fancy poo poo with them but it gets confusing quickly
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Nov 29, 2016 14:18
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And if you do double track, reminder to NOT build crossovers (======x=====), ever. In real life, with repair times, maintenance issues, and the fact that train schedules are coordinated in advance, crossovers provide a rail network with important redundancies. In Factorio, they offer too much choice for your AI drivers and your two one way lines will become two two way lines, messing up your traffic flow, creating stoppages in odd places, and forcing you to put in extra, even more complex signals to deal with that. I just finished ripping out all of my crossovers cleaning up yet another stoppage.
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Nov 29, 2016 14:45
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Could someone with one of those nutso 1 rocket/min games please share the savefile? I've a hankering to see exactly what that looks like in action, and I'm pretty sure I could learn a thing or two from looking at sections of the factory itself.
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Nov 29, 2016 14:50
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Is it bad that I want to build a no-module 1RPM factory? It's sheer insanity, but... (I don't like modules, they make the math harder.)
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Nov 29, 2016 14:58
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I think if you just use speed modules everywhere the math stays exactly the same? It's really annoying that you can't use productivity modules in a bunch of poo poo though.
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Nov 29, 2016 14:59
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I think it should all work out the same, yeah.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:07
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When calculating the bonus production, its best to look at as a measurable increase in rate, which combined with no prod mods on final goods means there can be a small shift in ratios or how many assemblers to saturate a belt even if craft speed is modified to be the same across the board.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:10
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How far out do you usually have to go with RSO to find reasonable oil deposits? My starting area only had 3 spots, with a further 5 within max radar scan range. I'm milking the original 3 as much as I can with T1 modules and beacons, but I really a lot more if I'm going to build my dream recursive factorissimo base.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:51
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You're going to be training oil around quite a bit.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:56
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Pretty far, in my experience. It seemed to me that the best approach is to use the starting area to get trains and oil, then restart with a new, bigger factory elsewhere. The starting patches will last a while but not forever.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:59
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Truga posted:You're going to be training oil around quite a bit. I'm prepared to train stuff in since that's the whole point of RSO, I'm just curious how many radar max scan ranges away larger deposits tend to be, since larger copper/iron deposits are already visible. In-game spawn settings set to default size and frequency, but elevated richness.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:04
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In my current game it took us several radar ranges to even get to large deposits, but we have several fairly rich 5 spill oil fields fairly close to the base. ~rng~ can get weird with RSO sometimes.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:07
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You should be using radarplus with RSO. The default radar range is far too weak.Solumin posted:Is it bad that I want to build a no-module 1RPM factory? It's sheer insanity, but... Don't know about 1RPM, but that would be an excellent way to achieve 1FPS. Breetai posted:Could someone with one of those nutso 1 rocket/min games please share the savefile? I've a hankering to see exactly what that looks like in action, and I'm pretty sure I could learn a thing or two from looking at sections of the factory itself. I can share mine later in the day, if no one else does in the meantime.
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Nov 29, 2016 19:09
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Looking through this thread reminds me of why I don't do Early Access on Steam. That, and Drifter. I got Factorio on Steam fairly recently and according to my library I've racked up 313 hours. I still suck at it, though. At the moment, I'm trying to earn the "use steam power only" and "no logistics chests" achievements, so my factory is a tangled mess of boilers, belts, refineries, boilers, train tracks, pipes, engines, boilers, engines and not to mention boilers. If there was a steam engine for the modular armour I would have used that too, but instead I swap the fusion core in and out and charge batteries for the MK2 shields so I can raid the biter nests and pulverize the spawners with rocket salvos. I do appreciate being able to use the train cars as chests, though. I have a crude sort of closed loop system going where the intermediate materials are loaded into the train car, fed into the assemblers and then the output goes back into the car for further processing. The car is surrounded by assemblers and refiners to keep material coming in, and space only becomes an issue if I neglect to set a job or keep a job running for too long.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:35
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ScreamingLlama posted:I do appreciate being able to use the train cars as chests, though. I have a crude sort of closed loop system going where the intermediate materials are loaded into the train car, fed into the assemblers and then the output goes back into the car for further processing. The car is surrounded by assemblers and refiners to keep material coming in, and space only becomes an issue if I neglect to set a job or keep a job running for too long. Do you mind sharing a screenshot of what you mean? I'm really curious.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:58
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FadedReality posted:I like this idea. Complex signalling and track switching sound like something to consider in the next run when I actually plan ahead. There's a mod for that: https://zippy.gfycat.com/EquatorialReflectingAntlion.webm
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Nov 29, 2016 22:40
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GotLag posted:There's a mod for that: Oh man AND it lets an inserter grab from chests to its right and left? I'd love a version of that where you unlock the new capabilities with logistics or something else that feels like you've earned "smart" inserters.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:19
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Bob's Adjustable Inserters has various inserter doodads that unlock with research.
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Nov 30, 2016 02:28
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Zetsubou-san posted:Bob's Adjustable Inserters has various inserter doodads that unlock with research. Excuse me but in this thread we use GotLag's Side Inserters  Ignoranus posted:Do you mind sharing a screenshot of what you mean? I'm really curious. Something like this: 
Solumin fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 02:54
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FadedReality posted:Oh man AND it lets an inserter grab from chests to its right and left? My first reaction was "well that's cheating!" but then again, the arms already have a full 360° range of motion, so why the hell not? It should be somewhere up there in the advanced logistics tree
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Nov 30, 2016 03:56
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Would be cool if it was something you had to set via the logistics net - and there was a way that you could tell the arm when to grab from where and when to place where.
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Nov 30, 2016 04:04
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After 36 hours in, I'm calling it on my first save because I didn't go nearly big enough. To give you an idea, I never ventured out of my initial radar scan range. I got a rocket silo production chain up and running. Things were chugging along fine and I even made the satellite. I got up to the mid-20s on the rocket when everything ground to a halt. I traced the problem back to my plastic production. It turns out all the plastic I had been using for the rocket production chain was just a full chest that had been accumulating under my nose as plastic was only being used in my science production chain (which itself could only support 5 labs). I'd built two storage tanks for each type of refined oil, two for crude at the factory, and one crude tank at each oil field. They were all empty. My radar range had three oil patches and the two I had built up were dry. Each had a single beacon with a single Speed 3 module. I didn't know that I was supposed to go in and load Speed 3 in every open slot and blanket the area with beacons to force production on empty wells. I supposed I could stop my rocket silo production temporarily and gather up the materials for my oil drum train station blueprint, pumpjacks, turrets, walls, the whole package. I took one look at my map and knew that was going to be a tall order. It had become completely surrounded by biters while I was buzzing around my base bringing back a belt system due to the power spikes I was getting from only using roboports. I had scoffed at their attempts to get through my triple thick walls lined with laser turrets and kept toiling away. I mean, I had disassembled my science production to free up the material chains for my bustling rocket silo chain so it's not like I needed to go kill their hives for alien artifacts anymore. I took stock of where I was militarily. I'd forgotten to rebuild my tank because I kept forgetting to limit electric engine production so I could get some regular engines for the tank from my single engine production building. I'd turned off the production of explosives, flamethrower fuel, and tank shells in favor of The Rocket. I figured it'd take a few more hours of regrouping and blowing up biters so, still ignorant to circuit networks and everything that goes with them, I ran around manually clearing the production choices of the buildings in my rocket silo chain. Next thing I knew, they came at the weakest spot. A big gap in my triple thick walls where I had made a gate for my tank and car. It was such a neglected part of my factory that I forgot about the gate entirely until they were at it. It only had 3 laser turrets. By the time I got there they'd destroyed the turrets which immediately emptied the chest of my single laser turret production building as construction bots dutifully replaced the turrets. I ran out the gate and started going wild with my flamethrower. I had no personal shield and level 1 power armor and was lighting my walls on fire as they destroyed every construction bot that came out of my backpack and the nearby roboport. Afterward I decided that no matter what step I took next I'd be creating even more pollution which I wasn't ready to handle the response to. I was never going to finish that rocket. For my second run I was considering these mods: Bob's Adjustable Inserters Bottleneck EvoGUI The Fat Controller YARM Should I also install Nucular or wait until I've got a (mostly) vanilla win? I don't want to trivialize late game power but I also don't want the last stage of power generation to be "even more solar arrays and steam engines". FadedReality fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 08:26
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quote is not edit
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Nov 30, 2016 08:28
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super fart shooter posted:My first reaction was "well that's cheating!" but then again, the arms already have a full 360° range of motion, so why the hell not? It should be somewhere up there in the advanced logistics tree It should absolutely be in the base game. There's just too big a gap going from inserters to logistics bots, and these side arms bridge that gap a bit. I use them with no reservation.
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Nov 30, 2016 08:34
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yeah, its a bit nuts to think that inserters shouldn't be able to turn 90 deg or place near or far side of belt heck it might be neat to start with inserters that can ONLY turn 90 deg
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Nov 30, 2016 08:39
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Solumin posted:Excuse me but in this thread we use GotLag's Side Inserters Oh yeah, whoops I forgot to actually link it, thanks. super fart shooter posted:My first reaction was "well that's cheating!" but then again, the arms already have a full 360° range of motion, so why the hell not? It should be somewhere up there in the advanced logistics tree It's a common first reaction, but they're not that powerful. As the source/destination must still be (non-diagonally) adjacent to the inserter, you are still limited by size and geometry to the same number of inserters per machine as in vanilla (well, you can use slightly more with long inserters but it's unwieldy). And you still have to have room for the inserters themselves, so while you can make your furnace/assembler rows narrower, they'll have to be longer to compensate. I find the lane-choosing ability more useful than the rotation when I'm building compact belt spaghetti. You'll find that you don't need to adjust inserters that much, a lot of the time the default settings are entirely satisfactory. But when you do need an inserter that can insert sideways or use a specific lane then it's great to have one. GotLag fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 09:01
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a fully upgraded bobs inserter can place on any tile with a distance of 3 units ---- tooling around with Reactors and made the pumps+reactors+cooling towers be powered by a solar+accum bank that's separate from my main grid so if my draw does go up suddenly then the engines don't get throttled by the pumps no longer working 100%
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Nov 30, 2016 09:30
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