Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Just got back from my brother's wedding in SoCal. Did I miss the revolution?

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

My posting history will verify my account on the new JDPON forums, where I can post in the off-topic board about socialist animes.

ScrubLeague posted:

The internet wouldn't be around for you to post on it if it happened.

You'll know, comrade.

Weeping Wound posted:

it went as expected, how did your brother's wedding go?

AceRimmer posted:

The New Class: An Analysis of the Communist System, 1957

quote:

Everything happeпed differently in the U.S.S.R. апd other Communist countries from what thе leaders-even such promineпt опеs as Lепiп, Staliп, Trotsky, апd Bukhariп-aпticipated. They expected tћat the state would rapidly wither away, that democracy would bе streпgtheпed. The reverse hаррепеd. They expected а rapid improvemeпt iп the staпdard of Iiviпg-there has bееп scarcely апу chaпge iп this respect and, iп tће subjugated East Еurореап countries, thе standard ћаs even decliпed. In еvегу instance, thе staпdard of living ћаs failed to rise iп рrороrtiоп to thе rate of iпdustrialization, which was much mоrе rapid. It was believed that thе differeпces between cities апd villages, betweeп iпtellectual and physical labor, would slowly disappear; instead these differeпces have in­creased. Commuпist anticipatioпs iп other areas-iпcludiпg their expectations for developmeпts in tће пon-Commuпist world-have also failed to materialize.

Atrocious Joe posted:

Capitalism is pretty great guys

Fidel Castronaut posted:

I would take contemporary western communists more seriously if they didn't use the term "comrade" all the time. When I was in a union for poor people, the UFCW, we didn't call each other comrade. It wasn't until I went to college and was in a grad student union that all these white middle-class kids started signing emails with "in solidarity" and calling each other "comrade." Fuckin' LARPing the revolution.

GunnerJ posted:

GunnerJ posted:

eta: I don't really mind "solidarity" though. I mean that's the point of a union.

Fidel Castronaut posted:

People should take comfort in the fact that this grocery store is never going to actually exist. Much like Amazon's drone delivery thing, it's just something to get investors excited and is completely impractical.

zen death robot posted:

I haven't seen a whole lot of memes god dammit

zen death robot posted:

I WAS PROMISED MEMES

Aeolius posted:

so, people think communists are not trustworthy because they are forthright and open about their biases, whereas the bourgeois press does not attest to any bias and therefore can be safely assumed to have none — something that is totally real & possible. QED.

pro heuristic: lend greater weight to someone who can identify and state clearly their biases; nobody is without them. if they think they are, it just means they haven't interrogated them, and may not even realize the presuppositions they're bringing to bear

if someone doesn't consider that a for-profit press run by corporate titans who dine in the halls of power MIGHT express certain interests and biases related to its concrete existence and those of the shot-callers, then i expect this hypothetical person hasn't given it much thought. or, also possible but somewhat more depressing, they've wholeheartedly swallowed the idea that capitalism is a "natural" and trans-historical world system, and therefore its biases are actually objectively correct norms intrinsic to all of humanity forever, and bourgeois democracy is the greatest realization of eudaimonia to which we as a species can aspire.

fortunately, there's a wealth of examples of times in human history where the capitalist market has not been the totalizing principle of human society, times the fourth estate has failed utterly to do more than act as stenography or PR for the imperial state and its constituents, and so on. some standard recommended readings on this include Chomsky's famous Manufacturing Consent, or Parenti's (tragically) less-well-known Inventing Reality.

i like to think that if you can get people to key into such details, then the house of cards will begin to fall. unfortunately, people are also extremely good at compartmentalizing the things they learn. consilience is hard, and ideology is hideously strong when consistently reinforced. but, that said, I honestly can't blame people for basic lack of exposure to such ideas, because they're not taught well outside of certain dissident circles or underfunded corners of academia. it's an uphill battle, but what else is new? "the cause of communism is the most arduous undertaking in all history," etc etc

anyway, enough outta me. here's a talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-SK8bUsshQ

Deimus posted:

Not that I care to debate about it, but sorry I skimmed it nonetheless...but these are some strange, bold claims that even most contemporary anti-communist historians wouldn't say.

Yinlock posted:

"communism never worked out that well in practice" is pretty well-established though

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Liberalism created the conditions for right wing nationalists to take over twice in one century.

jarofpiss posted:

Interesting that the countries people point to in regard to this are the most authoritarian examples of communism because of any socialist movement being constantly assaulted by us destabilization efforts.

Yinlock posted:

i guess the corrupt as gently caress leadership had nothing to do with it

MizPiz posted:

I'd say that's a massive understatement.

Yinlock posted:

again i am all for socialist ideas but think Full Communism is dumb as hell, just like Full Capitalism

MizPiz posted:

Third-way neoliberal spotted.

Yinlock posted:

no i'd just like to stop a couple steps before Full Communism

GunnerJ posted:

I guess what disturbs me about that reply isn't that it defends technology but that it assumes the necessity of "having a job" to the point of citing the cotton-harvesting slave as a "job" that technology saved rather than eliminated. I mean if that's your point of comparison, you'd think that this would be a cue to rethink how vital the connection between employment and human wellbeing ought to be.

Yinlock posted:

no i'd just like to stop a couple steps before Full Communism

Enjoy posted:

I'm not seeing where he said any of that

GunnerJ posted:

Good for you.

Enjoy posted:

Really though, you're spouting bullshit

Enjoy posted:

Really though, you're spouting bullshit

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

That commenter fetishizes "economic value" & considers it a good in itself, without ever considering the social utility of allowing planters to seize all gains of the slave labor which actually worked the cotton gins. It's fallacious trickle down reasoning at its core. A slave was never going to benefit materially from an increase to cotton production, except according to his master's whims. The same was true of dispossessed peasants who became the new industrial labor all across Europe, and it's true today of deunionized private sector workers who aren't even supposed to know if they're underpaid in their own workplace. Ignoring the social dimensions of wealth & power, and how they shape material conditions is a practiced sociopathy.