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That would probably be fun as a mod suite, but I think if Starcraft-esque base building was a part of the main game it would be more of a turnoff than anything else. If I wanted to play Starcrat against bots, I would.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:43
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:57 |
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Except you're essentially a giant finger in the sky in Sim City and an actual person that needs to travel around to investigate and possibly fix a disaster in Factorio. The scale does not relate. So surprise, the same problems that plague the current system of biters would still be in effect with your proposed climate changes. A bad storm is equivalent to a biter attack except you don't get to influence where it hits and can't lessen the blow. Snow interdicting solar panels means either building more of them, having an equivalent of the same power generation in steam engines (which already happens for some players to handle big power loads from a biter attack with laser turrets or when they bring a large factory segment online) or just accepting your factory is going to not run for a while. If your responses essentially come down to "BUILD MORE IN PARALLEL" which the game already wants you to do, you're just adding tedious grind. This is what gets us Gregtech. Now if this were under a system that could predict and maybe influence bad weather, then you could have interesting gameplay come out of climate change. But if you're just saying "LET'S PUT SIM CITY DISASTERS IN FACTORIO" then it's just trying to slap on a system that does not integrate well with another.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:55
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I would be completely fine with the Biters if I could tech up and start dropping nukes on them. Make the nukes as resource-intensive as launching rockets so there's a cost-benefit consideration: do I want to manage my Biters through careful pollution control and defense management, or do I want to spend 1000000+ plates in resources to wipe out every biter on my eastern front?
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Dec 8, 2016 21:03
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Sage Grimm posted:Now if this were under a system that could predict and maybe influence bad weather, then you could have interesting gameplay come out of climate change. But if you're just saying "LET'S PUT SIM CITY DISASTERS IN FACTORIO" then it's just trying to slap on a system that does not integrate well with another. I'm not advocating for the Hand of God coming down and smiting your poo poo so you have to rebuild it like Sim City disasters, no. But once you get to the point where mass-producing solar panels is affordable, you have the capacity for infinite power with no opportunity cost whatsoever. Just make a gigantic blueprint, drive down and lay down prints for five thousand more solar panels and get back to your day and bots will take care of the rest on their own. I don't think that's really any more compelling than driving around the map in a tank stomping out biter bases and laying down blueprints for yet another mining post. I don't enjoy driving around my base putting out fires all day, which is why I don't like biters and I wouldn't like weather effects unless they were established with a very even hand. I would think of them more as just external pressures, causing strain on a high-functioning factory that doesn't have diverse subsystems and giving a little bit of late-game flavor. eta: I think it's just a measure of what people are looking for in the later game. Some people want to launch a rocket and be done, some people want to have a gigantic purpose-built factory for 1RPM, and for someone like me, I like the idea of having a massive and robust factory that can handle any task. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:25
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sharkbomb posted:I would be completely fine with the Biters if I could tech up and start dropping nukes on them. Make the nukes as resource-intensive as launching rockets so there's a cost-benefit consideration: do I want to manage my Biters through careful pollution control and defense management, or do I want to spend 1000000+ plates in resources to wipe out every biter on my eastern front? Nukes still wouldn't mesh well with the main puzzle game, though, it'd just be like building a turret on a larger scale. Biters are like the mini-games you sometimes find in arcade machines or whatever in some FPS, except here it's not just a quick, optional distraction, here it forces you to stop playing the actual game so you can physically walk/drive to the site being attacked and manually plop turrets and walls and shoot bullets (and drop nukes). Manufacturing these items is part of the puzzle, sure, but deploying and using them is definitely not. The perfect illustration of this disconnect is the tank. What is the tank's purpose? Who launches Factorio thinking "today I'm going to build one tank and attack biter bases" ? edit: drat, beaten on the tank reference seravid fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:28
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I don't really get why weather would be superior to biters. Biters are 100% predictable and preventable. If you're driving around putting out fires all the time then that means you messed up, defense is pretty easy to automate honestly. How is building a turret line any different than having to set up a backup steam generator?
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Dec 8, 2016 21:45
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Let's talk about important features, like letting train stops reading cargo wagon filters so we can set requester chests that will custom-fill the cargo wagons. Could be solvable with the new train equipment stuff though.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:48
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Solumin posted:Let's talk about important features, like letting train stops reading cargo wagon filters so we can set requester chests that will custom-fill the cargo wagons. You can reserve slots on a cargo wagon to specific items the same way you do on your belt(s) via the middle mouse button. So if you want a cargo train to be 2 rows of empty crude barrels and 2 rows of full crude barrels or even make a cargo wagon for FARL, et al.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:05
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I don't like biters or even the physical avatar because I think they distract from the core game play, which is logistics and "town" building. /shrug
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Dec 8, 2016 22:55
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Biter divisiveness is understandable enough but my favorite part of this game is everything emergent out of the avatar/nature as a survival game. By the time you lose that you're just left with ratios and build orders which makes it a slightly uglier Anno. Getting logistics deliveries and setting up a personal roboport are religious moments.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:12
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ElMaligno posted:You can reserve slots on a cargo wagon to specific items the same way you do on your belt(s) via the middle mouse button. So if you want a cargo train to be 2 rows of empty crude barrels and 2 rows of full crude barrels or even make a cargo wagon for FARL, et al. I was thinking of having multiple outpost factories that produce specialized goods. To simplify the layout, there's a central depot where all intermediary products are stored. Each specialized factory sends its goods to the central depot via a train, and each one has another train for picking up supplies from the depot. For example, one factory produces red circuits, so it needs plastic, copper plate (for cable) and green circuits. It has one train for shipping red circuits and one for picking up ingredients. How do you set up the central depot to easily handle trains like this? Possible ideas: - Stops for each kind of material at the depot and a short loop so that the train gets one material, loops around to get the next, etc. - No central depot at all, instead have supply trains go to whichever stops have the goods they need. (The most flawed approach) What I'd really like to see: - Train stops read train contents, sends that to a requester chest, bots fill the chest, inserter fills the cargo wagon from the chest. The only piece really missing is the train stop -> requester chest one.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:15
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zedprime posted:Getting logistics deliveries and setting up a personal roboport are religious moments. That first time you walk up to a forest and clear it entirely in seconds....
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Dec 8, 2016 23:28
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Theoretically you could use circuits to set up a signalling system that tells it what train pulled in. Train rolls in with a marker item, the marker item is unloaded into a chest that triggers a circuit system that unloads a train full of x, y, and z out of requesters onto loading belts. It won't win any races and its maybe overcomplicated of a circuit design but its possible.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:28
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Solumin posted:I was thinking of having multiple outpost factories that produce specialized goods. To simplify the layout, there's a central depot where all intermediary products are stored. Each specialized factory sends its goods to the central depot via a train, and each one has another train for picking up supplies from the depot. Factorio Meiosis kinda does this, uses "cell" specialization concept, trains and a handful of robots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2C1pOMY5og
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Dec 8, 2016 23:29
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A depot for everything would introduce delays and increase traffic in the network, slowing both the factory and the game. Doesn't seem worth the trouble. I do have separate facilities for smelting, oil processing and circuits production (no central depot) in my current game, but having mixed trains delivering all necessary ingredients would not be viable. Consumption differs wildly between items, with iron and copper requiring multiple, dedicated trains. Shipping all three circuits in a single train works, though. totalnewbie posted:I don't like biters or even the physical avatar because I think they distract from the core game play, which is logistics and "town" building. /shrug Are you familiar with the church of Long Reach?
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Dec 8, 2016 23:52
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Solumin posted:- Train stops read train contents, sends that to a requester chest, bots fill the chest, inserter fills the cargo wagon from the chest. The only piece really missing is the train stop -> requester chest one. You could sort of do this without reading the contents. Set up each cargo car to only accept the items you want, then setup 12 requester chests to feed into each car, assigning 1/12 of each chest to a specific material. That way each car has a total of 1 full chest worth of each item type waiting for it at the station and you don't lose loading speed like you would having each chest be for just 1 item type. You can even add more capacity by chaining the chests: m>m>||<m<m m>m>||<m<m m>m>||<m<m m>m>||<m<m m>m>||<m<m m>m>||<m<m This way each car can pull in up to 12 different items in whatever ratio you want, or you can have different trains loading different items using the same stop. Unloading could work the same way using chests with assigned slots, but eventually you'd need to sort the contents with filter inserters or bots.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:59
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Gadzuko posted:I don't really get why weather would be superior to biters. Biters are 100% predictable and preventable. If you're driving around putting out fires all the time then that means you messed up, defense is pretty easy to automate honestly. How is building a turret line any different than having to set up a backup steam generator? They're a nuisance early game imo and that's when your hands are the most full anyway. Sure once you have infinity bullets and laser turrets and robots to keep them repaired and full forever they're a nonissue. zedprime posted:Biter divisiveness is understandable enough but my favorite part of this game is everything emergent out of the avatar/nature as a survival game. By the time you lose that you're just left with ratios and build orders which makes it a slightly uglier Anno. The logistics and robotics are still a religious moment even when you play on peaceful. The main problem I have with biters is that there is no intelligent or creative solution for them. Factorio is great because you can scale up your base theoretically infinitely and you can be as blunt or precise about it as you want, and while there's no upper limit to how spergy you can be about proper ratios and the like, the minimum amount of  required is very low. And there isn't One True Way to build a base. With biters, you just kinda deal with them until you can mass produce walls and turrets, at which point it's mostly solved, and then once you get bots to maintain your perimeter it's completely solved. It's just very boring and reductive. Plus the actual gameplay of grabbing a gun and shooting aliens is about as badly executed as you could imagine. It's not fun and there's no tangible reward. By the time you need purple you have the tech to completely nullify any remaining challenge of getting the purple.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:19
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Am I remembering right that one of the dev updates said they're taking a look at biters, nests, and how it all works long term (especially for research?) or did I imagine that?
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Dec 9, 2016 02:30
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You did remember that, but it doesn't sound like they're changing how biters operate, they just don't drop purple anymore.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:39
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I was pretty proud of myself when I managed to take out an early game 3 big worm base with a handful of gun turrets (not all of them survived).
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Dec 9, 2016 04:02
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I'm the opposite in that I want Factorio to play more like a tower defense game with logistics than sim city. Give biters better AI and make them more diverse but give me a huge military tech tree to deal with it.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:15
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zegermans posted:That first time you walk up to a forest and clear it entirely in seconds.... That's what the flamethrower is for 
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Dec 9, 2016 08:59
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Has anyone done RSO and Bobs mod combined? My favorite thing in this game is large scale train logistics and I want something a little more complex than just RSO- but I also don't want to drive myself to suicide if at all possible.
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Dec 9, 2016 09:17
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Kinetica posted:Has anyone done RSO and Bobs mod combined? My favorite thing in this game is large scale train logistics and I want something a little more complex than just RSO- but I also don't want to drive myself to suicide if at all possible. I tried it, but got frustrated that I need so many different kinds of ore, which have slightly different colours on the minimap. I gave up that game, and started one with Angels' Refining and Angels Infinite Ores as well, so there's only about 6 different kinds of ore, and nothing's going to grind to a halt if I don't find any new patches. (things still grind to a halt if I can't get enough byproducts out of the way, but that can be solved with more warehouses)
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Dec 9, 2016 11:58
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zegermans posted:I'm having trouble understanding fluid physics - I've got the rail tanker mod with two tank cars, and my oil sites feature 4 storage tank that have a mutual input from the oil field (but are otherwise not directly connected), then 4 small pumps each connected by a single pipe-to-ground to load the tankers - but half my oil sites only load oil into one of the tankers. Also, my unloading is 4 small pumps per tanker, but it doesn't seem to suck out the expected 100+ units/s. http://imgur.com/a/h1ZDX https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/4teo1z/emulating_inventory_fullempty_conditions_with/d5goc1q/
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Dec 9, 2016 14:05
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GotLag posted:http://imgur.com/a/h1ZDX The answer to all Factorio issues - add mods until it works the way you want it to 
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Dec 9, 2016 15:53
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Tesla was right posted:I tried it, but got frustrated that I need so many different kinds of ore, which have slightly different colours on the minimap. Yeah I just got to that point in my Bob's game and it's hell trying to figure out which ore is which on the map. Almost considering spawning fields in.
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Dec 9, 2016 19:55
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Don't fluids run out of pressure after a certain distance? Is there a mod I can use to remove this? And is there a good way I can check if a pipe is being filled with fluid or not (like how you can easily see how much stuff you've got on a belt)?
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Dec 9, 2016 21:54
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You use pumps to re-pressurize pipes. Check out GotLag's Flow Control if you want a mod to help with that. You can hover over a pipe to see what's inside it. If you have a long run of straight, above-ground pipes, you'll be able to see the level of liquid inside the pipe.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:35
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The one-way valve can be connected to a circuit to measure its contents, and takes up the same space as a pipe segment. It's used for that purpose in the example above of a fluid wagon unloading station, as part of the flow detection system.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:47
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What are some recommended mods for a first-ish play through?
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Dec 10, 2016 17:54
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stay the gently caress away from bobs factorissimo is chill as gently caress FARL is cool RSO is also cool, crank all the resoruce options to max tho, gently caress running around trying to find poo poo
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Dec 10, 2016 18:00
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Baloogan posted:stay the gently caress away from bobs Any military suggestions?
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Dec 10, 2016 18:14
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turn off the motherfucking biters
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Dec 10, 2016 18:18
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dbzfandiego posted:What are some recommended mods for a first-ish play through? Rail tankers, barreling crude oil for transport is a stupid waste of effort.
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Dec 10, 2016 18:24
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Yeah I'd play on vanilla peaceful if it's your first time to get the ropes Edit yes except for rail tankers which are going into base next patch anyway
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Dec 10, 2016 18:25
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Its hard to decide when you just walk into the game but its best to determine if you ever want to play with biters because passive biters just teaches bad habits if you ever do turn aggressive biters. Factorio mods are a know it when you see it thing so feel free to jump in unmodded with a plan to add as you go. Adding mods to existing saves usually isn't a big deal so as you say "Gee I wish I could do something about this whatsit" you can go mod the whatsit and just carry on.
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Dec 10, 2016 18:29
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First play-through I'd say no mods, with all the standard settings. Then once you've played as much of that as you'd like (either to the end or until you've got tired of something) you can find mods to add things you think are missing or fix things you don't find fun.
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Dec 10, 2016 19:00
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Tenebrais posted:First play-through I'd say no mods, with all the standard settings. This is exactly what I was going to say. Mods smooth rough spots and add new content. If you're just starting to play the game, you definitely don't need more content yet, and you should at least experience the rough spots so you can appreciate what the mods are doing.
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Dec 10, 2016 19:18
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:57 |
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On the other hand, the first couple hours would be drastically less tedious with Long Reach. There is no fun or reward to be had from physically walking from drill to drill to boiler to assembler and, while making you appreciate the transition to automation is a good motivation, having to do everything manually is more than enough already. Forcing you to walk right up to every single building to access them on top of that doesn't add anything to the experience, in fact it interrupts the flow of the game by placing a 5 or 10 or 15-second waiting period between "I need to do thing" and "I'm doing thing". Long Reach doesn't turn the game into god mode (as it should), you'll still have to do everything manually and carry your avatar everywhere. Unlocking automation will remain a glorious revelation to new players. There are no downsides.
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Dec 10, 2016 20:10
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