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The Lone Badger posted:I approach skull rust from a different (gamist) perspective. Without skill rust toe skills only ever go up, meaning that over time every character becomes omnicompetent at everything. Limiting how many things one person can be good at preserves character distinction. You can already do that though, the game relies on time constraints imposed by the environment,given enough time you can learn anything but if you have infinite time with no pressure you've kind of broken the game. The choice is between what you want to learn first. Mzbundifund posted:Like so many things, this was deemed Unless it changed you only need a spanner or something to change a battery so it's probably easier to just nick a good one and stick it in the car rather than trying to jump it. Jumpers are mostly useful for transferring charge to vehicles in a base. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 04:32
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Mzbundifund posted:Like so many things, this was deemed Well that explains why I have seen references to doing it but wasn't able to. Thanks for the help goons, I don't think my character had much hope anyway, but next time might go better!
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Nov 30, 2016 04:46
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The Lone Badger posted:I approach skull rust from a different (gamist) perspective. Without skill rust toe skills only ever go up, meaning that over time every character becomes omnicompetent at everything. Limiting how many things one person can be good at preserves character distinction. It seems like rather than marking skills to rust, it would make more sense to mark skills to NOT rust, then you'd just have a cap on how many you could "save", probably based on int and maybe boosted by traits/mutations/bionics as well. This would represent skills you specialize in, so even if you aren't actually practicing them, you're generally thinking about them and so they're always fresh in your mind. On top of that, practicing a skill by any method (even one that's too easy to actually raise your exp in that skill) will temporarily mark that skill as "fresh", and thus it won't even start rusting for a little while (at least a couple of days, so you don't start forgetting stuff you did that day while you sleep). Even once a skill starts to rust, it should be a progressive thing - you don't suddenly start forgetting things at a linear rate. Thus you wouldn't really need to mark your primary combat skills as a focus, just because you'd be getting enough practical experience in that you wouldn't actually have to dedicate mental effort to staying sharp, but if you only fire a gun once in a blue moon it does make sense that you'd be out of practice. It's kind of a weird system in general because "skills" represent a range of things both physical and mental in the game, and any one system is not really going to fit intuitively with all of them.
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Nov 30, 2016 06:56
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Any attempt to impose some meta skill cap on the current system is bullshit because the current skill system is broken and stupid and caps only make it more broken and more stupid.
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Nov 30, 2016 08:01
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the vast majority of batteries i run into are dead as hell so finding any battery with any charge is a colossal pain in my dick
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Nov 30, 2016 08:07
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Coolguye posted:the vast majority of batteries i run into are dead as hell so finding any battery with any charge is a colossal pain in my dick Yeah I've had this problem too. Every vehicle I find is between 0-5% battery, so not being able to just shove batteries in by hand makes it essentially impossible to use ANY vehicle batteries. The only exception I've found so far was a solar car, which I'm assuming probably spawned at 0-5% but had charged up to about 50% by the time I found it. If they aren't going to have it so you can just "refill" car batteries by hand, they should at least implement some kind of handheld jump-starter item to bridge the gap.
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Nov 30, 2016 08:33
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A big problem with skill rust is that basket weaving 4/99% is significantly different from 5/0%. If your ability to craft/install something had less of a hard cutoff and skill requirements were more like "this will take forever and you'll probably gently caress it up," skill rust wouldn't be as horrible.
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Nov 30, 2016 08:54
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That's more or less why I play with skill rust disabled. It does make sense that after like two weeks my absolute best in that skill has degraded slightly, but when it drops a level and "oops, I forgot how to craft a whole bunch of poo poo!" happens, that's really stupid and is way to big of a punishment for something so minor.
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Nov 30, 2016 09:44
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The Lone Badger posted:I approach skull rust from a different (gamist) perspective. Without skill rust toe skills only ever go up, meaning that over time every character becomes omnicompetent at everything. Limiting how many things one person can be good at preserves character distinction. The problem is that the game doesn't really have any way to get access to the skills you don't. In an MMO you could be a doctor who's only real ability is healing people, and it would work because you'd have friends to make flashlights and stab zombies and put duct tape on the car. In Cataclysm you're going solo, so it basically requires you to become good at everything. Anything else is basically just consigning yourself to not playing with fun things which while realistic, it isn't at all fun. Slime fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 12:29
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The Lone Badger posted:I approach skull rust from a different (gamist) perspective. Without skill rust toe skills only ever go up, meaning that over time every character becomes omnicompetent at everything. Limiting how many things one person can be good at preserves character distinction. On the other hand, you might expect that someone who survives alone in the apocalypse would eventually become omnicompetent by necessity.
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Nov 30, 2016 15:51
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something something jacking quality
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Nov 30, 2016 18:54
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Vengarr posted:On the other hand, you might expect that someone who survives alone in the apocalypse would eventually become omnicompetent by necessity. there's actually a lot of examples of this sort of thing as various societies got cut off from trading routes or whatever - there are a couple of examples off western australia of bands of a couple hundred hunter gatherers that traded enthusiastically with the mainland and had all sorts of stuff like bone needles, ornamentation, intricate clothing, spear-throwing apparatus, barbed fishing hooks, and more then a strait flooded and they were isolated for a couple hundred years, and their technology regressed to...fire-hardened wooden spear tips, and that was about it. so omnicompetence really isn't a thing irl, but it makes sense to keep it in game just because rusting is practically impossible to do in a way that doesn't feel loving awful. but even if you can keep all this weird knowledge in your head, you do not have the number of hours in the day to actually DO all this stuff. the real reason skill rust is stupid is because it's balancing the wrong thing. the problem isn't really that you can learn how to make cargo pants from sewing together a bunch of sheets, it's that you can make a perfectly fitting set of cargo pants from rags in loving 48 minutes, customize them into survivor cargo pants with extra pouches and kevlar everywhere in another 70, and do custom reinforcements with leather, kevlar, and extra cotton reinforcement in under another hour. each of these things would take you days of eye-straining, sanity-draining work irl with the tools the game provides you.
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Nov 30, 2016 23:42
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Yeah honestly if they ever seriously rework the skill system I want crafting to be more based around 'projects' which you work on gradually over an extended period. Like if you're just learning tailoring, instead of holing yourself up somewhere and making 30 pairs of socks or whatever you will spend an hour or two tops a day for 1-2 weeks working on a single larger item and you get a whole skill level from making 1 thing. And then at higher skill levels things can get really crazy. At the moment if you're going to take skills at all at character creation there's no reason to start with most skills below 3 or 4 because you can grind up to that level very easily in a day or two, which makes no sense.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:19
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Sure, becoming omnipotent and an expert in every weapon and crafting skill is a bit unrealistic, but at the same time it's a single player game and it would be super stupid if I had to choose between being a tailor or being able to build a base/car. Cataclysm has made a lot of really dumb, unfun changes in the name of "realism" and I don't want to see that continue. The change to engines is really, really stupid. But yes, skill grinds really need to be re-evaluated. They are rather silly. The only thing I ever put points into is Dodge because that's the only thing that's relatively difficult to level up (and will kill you if unlucky). Everything else is just a pointless, way too simple grind until rank 2-3.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:48
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Coolguye posted:there's actually a lot of examples of this sort of thing as various societies got cut off from trading routes or whatever - there are a couple of examples off western australia of bands of a couple hundred hunter gatherers that traded enthusiastically with the mainland and had all sorts of stuff like bone needles, ornamentation, intricate clothing, spear-throwing apparatus, barbed fishing hooks, and more I was thinking more along the lines..."What makes me a good demoman? If I were a bad demoman, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing it with you, now would I?" Surviving long enough, solo, in extreme conditions necessitates having the skills to overcome all challenges on your own. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 03:24
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Yeah but not necessarily really surviving well. You might be able to figure out which berries don't make you puke but you're probably not going to have the best diet because, again, the only time you have in the day to look for food, you're looking for the simplest at hand calories you can get, and as those calories get harder to find you need to either spend more time moving to get to richer foraging/hunting, or more time figuring out other foods to eat. A day simply isn't long enough for these sorts of roughing it skills. Which is really just another reason why that sort of simulation is insane on its face and the changes optimizing for it are dumb. If we wanted a game where you spend most of your time just trying to figure out where your next meal comes from in an almost entirely solitary environment, we would be playing Unreal World, not Cataclysm. Really the problem I actually detect with omnicompetence and stuff is that a skilled player is able to become massively more powerful in a very short amount of time, essentially trivializing most of the game. The first 24 hours are really the only challenging ones in DDA right now. Skills as a whole probably need to be rethought because they currently struggle to compare like with unlike. Stuff like melee and dodging are kinetic skills where the point is less what you know and more how well you do the stuff you do know, while tailoring, mechanics, etc are static skills that are all about a repertoire of tricks you know. From a game perspective, you have distinct tiers of challenge that get determined by your gear; if you're in a light survivor suit you're effectively immune to damage from entire classes of dudes, once you have a better good weapon you don't fear even large hordes, once you have a vehicle that you don't fear any kind of resource shortage, etc. Going up tiers should be the overall hard part and require a huge outlay of resources, therefore, because of the outsized benefit it gives you. If I'm asked (and I wasn't), I'd probably try making static skills into tech trees kinda, where you have to blindly experiment to figure out how to make something, then after you master it you can go back and do it a lot easier from there. So your first light survivor suit (as in all the parts, so gloves and poo poo too) will probably take you a full week to make and likely set you back three or four times the usual outlay of resources because you have nfi what you are doing, but after you make the first one right you can go back and whip up another pretty fast given the right resources. Makes a big project out of powering yourself up, but after you basically spend the time and resources making the local equivalent of command center level 2 you don't easily lose that tier ability, so if your poo poo gets wrecked but you survive you can bounce back.
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Dec 1, 2016 09:43
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I assume this is a change related to the engine overhaul, so maybe someone can explain wtf is going on to me. I nabbed a security van, but the engine was fairly damaged. I replaced it with a 6.2L Traction Engine I took out of a self-propelled howitzer. Everything was fine. Now I've driven it back to my home base and upon inspecting it, the engine is gray and "destroyed". I can't turn it on or off, and it doesn't consume any diesel, but... I can still sit at the controls and drive with no issues. Am I missing something? Did something change in regards to this?
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Dec 6, 2016 01:58
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I'm calling it as a bug that just happens to work in your favor. since they decided to make electric cars garbage you might as well abuse it while it works.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:59
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Does anyone know what has been changed with Cauterize Wound? It was a nice way to stop those infections, but now the action is greyed out no matter my knife or the amount of fire I've got nearby.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:27
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I won't promise this is the answer but my guess would be you have to apply the knife to fire first because some idiot sperg couldn't handle the abstraction.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:30
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Noob question time: 1) Is there a setting/etc to refuse to (or specifically warn/prompt) when something I craft is going to use something I've got equipped? It's pretty annoying when I Accidentally craft a random thing out of the pants I'm wearing. 2) Obviously finding a backpack is ideal, but I feel like I'm spending WAY too much time (I'm brand new) fussing with lovely inventory management that is a little too 'real' (except in real life I have two loving hands to carry things and don't need to take conscious action to momentarily put something down). I know I can do stuff like constantly drop any makeshift slings/etc I make, but is my approach wrong, or should I not worry about minor encumbrance, or what?
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Dec 8, 2016 18:49
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Fayk posted:Noob question time: 1) I believe if you have two options for crafting something, one on the floor and one on your person, you get a dialog box asking which one you want to craft with. I don't recall if this shows up if your options are in your equipment and in your inventory and no you do not get a warning or prompt about crafting with equipment otherwise. 2) Torso encumbrance is only a thing if you like going toe-to-toe with zombies. If you have half-decent ranged options you can pile on the duffle bags. If you don't, pray for shopping carts or functioning vehicles. You can make a travois from a wooden frame if you can't find a clothing store/off-brand Home Depot/etc. with proper shopping carts close by or a useful car/truck but they're slow as molasses. The other thing you can do is just drop poo poo in the front doors of houses/businesses you want to
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Dec 8, 2016 19:31
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Note that shopping carts don't actually need wheels to be dragged around - they just make more noise that way. It should be simple enough to head out to grocery stores or liquor stores and at least find one with an intact basket.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:49
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Doesn't it take more time to drag a shopping cart without wheels?
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Dec 8, 2016 21:23
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it's also worth noting that you generally should not need a huge amount of storage volume prior to becoming skilled enough to get/make high quality containers and a car. you only need food and water for like a day, presuming no dietary restrictions, because calories and hydration are not that hard to scrounge up. there is no point to hoarding spare parts early on, and you don't need more than a one ranged weapon and one melee one to deal with the normal mix of zombies you find in towns and cities. tools are worth scrounging but they also are generally quite small if you're starting out naked or whatever then yeah rock a half dozen slings, but some cargo pants and a light jacket provide plenty of cargo space for the essentials until you can score a shopping cart.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:56
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Fayk posted:I know I can do stuff like constantly drop any makeshift slings/etc I make, but is my approach wrong, or should I not worry about minor encumbrance, or what? The amount of encumbrance you can deal with on your torso while fighting melee depends on melee skill. The higher your melee skill, the better your base chance to hit anyway. That said, makeshift slings are absurdly high on encumbrance, so yeah, in early games when I have zero melee skill I often will drop the bag, fight off whatever is attacking, then re-equip it and pick up all the dropped poo poo. The "advanced" inventory menu ( / ) makes this much easier. But yeah, as mentioned, you don't really need a lot of storage volume anyway. A shopping cart or even wheelbarrow will completely invalidate your carrying capacity because it carries so god drat much on it's own. Then, following that, a vehicle that's built properly will have more storage space than you could ever possibly fill, and with a welder is infinitely expandable.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:03
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Mzbundifund posted:Doesn't it take more time to drag a shopping cart without wheels? I'm not actually sure - I've never checked. Speed isn't a huge issue since if you need to get into a fight while dragging a cart, you just drop the cart (which is a hell of a lot faster than trying to strip off 5 backpacks). If you need to run away from something instead of killing it, the area probably isn't safe enough to be scavenging such a huge volume of stuff that you need a shopping cart in the first place.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:22
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Yeah, so sounds like the accidental crafting from worn gear is just something dumb (most roguelikes would prompt for such a thing) but at least easily avoided. I wasn't sure if doing most of my looting with a shopping cart would be sane/etc, but that sounds like what I should do then (even with how little I've played I've seen plenty of carts in grocery stores). I guess if I'm not able to hoard a bit it just means I don't really know what the expected gameplay loop is at various stages of the game, yet, so I'll have to figure it out.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:45
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Yep, grocery stores nearly always have shopping carts. If not, you can usually raid a hardware store for a wheelbarrow too. Not as good, but way, way better than nothing.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:56
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My start-of-midgame milepost is when I can make a foldable cart with a cargo space (foldable parts mod is great). 250L of draggable storage means I'm paying more attention to weight. I keep 2 duffel bags in the cart for basement looting but I'm sitting at under 30 torso encumbrance otherwise.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:36
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The thing to really note with regard to loot is that the game world is, in fact, infinite. If you stray away from the spawned area, the game will dynamically make more. This functionally also means that loot is infinite. You do not need to worry about picking a place clean because if an area isn't giving you what you want, you can always just take your hobo cart to the road and find the next town.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:59
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Does anyone actually drive larger vehicles like RVs around? Seems like they would be very cumbersome. Comfy though.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:47
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Using a security van in my current game. But yeah RVs are way too big, especially in the current "two engines don't work" builds.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:04
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Endgame is a mobile survivorbase fitted with all crafting stations, ample storage, sleeping bay, and tons of turrets.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:13
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super endgame really only needs an electric forge, because everything else can be handled by adding a recharging station and refitting basic tools. a rechargeable hotplate is functionally identical to a stove. sleeping bays are easily duplicable by simply dropping sheets on all the reinforced glass. turrets can be placed basically arbitrarily so you don't need a large chassis to handle that with. i truthfully start out with a 3x3 sealed motorcycle and throw another quarterpanel and storage space on the back whenever i get close to full. curtains on all the windshields and a reclining chair are as good as any bed. i've never had to go over 3x6 honestly, after you have a great set of tools you can salvage lots of raw material by just smashing up wreckage or some dumb gently caress's house. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 05:28
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Super-duper end-game vehicles don't need windows, because you instead control it with your brain-vehicle interface in the comfort of a bed through the eyes of your vehicle's cameras; if the enemies can't see you, they won't think to approach your basemobile.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:46
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Anything (much) larger than 5x7 is a pain in the rear end to drive. I make a constructed 5x5 interior space base and expedition out for lab loot and ant meat.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:59
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I still remember fondly my Super Ambulance. Carried everything I needed, every car furniture installation available, and the rest of the slots had transport bays or whatever those were called. And a laser cannon on top. Bigger than sedans, but small enough to fit in most places.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:40
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gently caress this noise, biggest thing I built so far was a huge 10x10 monstrosity that went like 8mph and couldn't fit through most streets because of poo poo in the way. It had tank tracks instead of wheels and was functionally invincible to anything less than repeated explosives. Every possible thing was inside it, welding rig, forge, FOODCO, etc., and I had a chill room in the back for sleeping, reading, and getting high as balls on my enormous supply of weed.
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Dec 9, 2016 17:58
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Mister Adequate posted:gently caress this noise, biggest thing I built so far was a huge 10x10 monstrosity that went like 8mph and couldn't fit through most streets because of poo poo in the way. It had tank tracks instead of wheels and was functionally invincible to anything less than repeated explosives. Every possible thing was inside it, welding rig, forge, FOODCO, etc., and I had a chill room in the back for sleeping, reading, and getting high as balls on my enormous supply of weed. Haha man, I did the same thing many updates ago. I cheated to get 30 mechanic skill when I realized I couldn't put 8 engines on there without it. I did that wire spiral forcefield glitch so it could ram through stuff without damaging anything. I wonder if that's still possible? Eventually I'd just set it to cruise control then walk down an aisle I installed to sit and watch. It would just go through anything, even whole forests
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Dec 9, 2016 18:11
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