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Kestral posted:TL;DR, use Wardancer Spears against heavy cav, monsters, and regular infantry, break out the Rangers when you need to hack heavy infantry apart, or slow superheavy units like Chosen down. Just wanted to say that I really appreciated this post.
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Dec 11, 2016 15:23
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Ah poo poo, beating the mini-campaign only unlocks Mousillon for custom battles, not GC? That sucks The final battle was pretty intense at least, I had to fail twice before realizing my army composition was totally wrong for it. Double Bill fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 15:25
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Deepwood Scouts are weird, the normal version is pointless but the Silvershard variant is excellent at shredding light units. Still mostly bad against Elves because Glade Guard murder them but actually very good against Beastmen. Waywatchers almost justify themselves when kiting Heavy Infantry or focusing down enemy Lords/Heroes but the great elf civil war with some beastmen action on the side doesn't leave them much room for that. Obviously only Glade Guard are cost effective in MP but you could probably could better value out of the elite archers in grand campaign depending on your opponent. Infantry wise it's Eternal Guard and Wardancers all the way. Eternal Guard are good arrow catchers and cav blockers while the Wardancers maul most other things easily. I don't know how many elf on elf garrison battles I lost primarily because the attacking army gets Wardancers and the garrison army does not. Wildwood Rangers are niche but they work decently keeping one or two as a reserve force to deal with especially high armor enemies. Dryads seem pretty bad, on paper they look reasonably solid but in practice they just die a bunch and route.
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Dec 11, 2016 15:38
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Perestroika posted:That's just a visual thing, several cavalry units are just fine in extended melee combat even if they're awkwardly waving around spears and lances instead of swords. I do remember in the earlier games like rome 1 that alternate weapon wasn't just a visual change, cataphracts waving around maces instead of spears did a ton of armor piercing damage. But to answer the guys question no alternate weapons on spearmen or cavalry in this game, it would probably make sense to do it on a orc unit to be able to swap between weapons if their engine still has the capability to do it.
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Dec 11, 2016 15:40
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I do remember in the earlier games like rome 1 that alternate weapon wasn't just a visual change, cataphracts waving around maces instead of spears did a ton of armor piercing damage. Just for some reason they decided to not give cavalry units secondary weapons anymore?  Watching my Blood Knights try to poke a skeleton in the head with their lance is somewhat silly.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:24
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Kestral posted:TL;DR, use Wardancer Spears against heavy cav, monsters, and regular infantry, break out the Rangers when you need to hack heavy infantry apart, or slow superheavy units like Chosen down. Huh. Guess I'll have to give the Rangers a shot then. Though if you just want to slow down enemies and leave the killing to someone else, I guess Eternal Guard with shields are going to do the job similarily well at a much lower cost.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:01
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The Too Many Buildings issue with the W. Elves is a matter of specialization. I think you're meant to build your army based on whether you go Tree People faction or Elves, completely eschewing certain building paths because of unit amber costs. For example, going Dorthu generally means giving up the specialist elf melee infantry and building a core of meaty T1 and T2 trees for your line. They're tanky but lack AP killing power and are susceptible to ranged in the early game. You might even ignore getting dedicated cav and going full flying units for cavalry duty. It makes for a very different kind of game vs picking Orion. I'm going Tree this time around and I definitely miss having Wardancers. Wardancers are so much fun! Secondly, apparently there is a bug which makes the top tier W. Elf archer unit less effective than they're meant to be. They're supposed to have a passive skill, Hawkish Finesse, that increases firing speed by +40, if enemy units are within a certain range but CA forgot to tag them with it. theDOWmustflow fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 17:10
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Dec 11, 2016 17:14
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theDOWmustflow posted:The Too Many Buildings issue with the W. Elves is a matter of specialization. I think you're meant to build your army based on whether you go Tree People faction or Elves, completely eschewing certain building paths because of unit amber costs. Even excluding the 'tree people' buildings there are the 4 council buildings, 2 technology buildings, 3 defense buildings (though the wardancer one seems really lame compared to the other 2), 2 different kinds of forge buildings, growth, pottery, wine, winery bonus, spellcaster, etc etc etc. There are just a lot of options for a limited number of spots, especially since a level 5 city costs 2 amber as well. If you build a shrine and research the tech it unlocks, can you then demo the building? That would help a bit.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:28
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Double Bill posted:Ah poo poo, beating the mini-campaign only unlocks Mousillon for custom battles, not GC? That sucks Someone posted earlier that there's a mod that unlocks them in the GC and I know there's one called something like "city of the damned" that gives them a Bretonnian look. Not sure if it's been updated.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:40
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Raygereio posted:As I just discovered, the engine still is perfectly capable of swapping weapons and primary & secondary weapons are actually still a thing. I had only played a bit of Vampire Counts, which don't have archers. I just did a battle with some dwarves and you can alt-click with their missile units to make them switch to melee weapons. Cavalry is split between shock and melee cavalry. Modern TW titles have made sure to keep the two distinct from each other, whether it's yari vs katana cavalry or cataphracts vs azat knights. Blood knights are shock cavalry.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:53
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Even excluding the 'tree people' buildings there are the 4 council buildings, 2 technology buildings, 3 defense buildings (though the wardancer one seems really lame compared to the other 2), 2 different kinds of forge buildings, growth, pottery, wine, winery bonus, spellcaster, etc etc etc. There are just a lot of options for a limited number of spots, especially since a level 5 city costs 2 amber as well. Yes, to your question. That's true, I ignore the defensive buildings apart from the garrison granting ones. I pick the civics buildings based on if I need a replenishing zone, need Public Order, or straight cash. The trade resources are an afterthought bonus.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:55
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So since the game is pretty much done until Bretonnia, I decree it's time to start speculating about the next game. So that's, at least most likely, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen and Skaven. I imagine they'll go the usual route, a more intricate dedicated campaign with a more general map grafted onto the grand campaign. So the dynamics would roughly be High Elves vs Dark Elves, Lizardmen vs Skaven. What's most likely for starting Legendary Lords? Tyrion and Teclis for High Elves. Malekith and maybe Morathi for Dark Elves. I would think Lizardmen might actually get three to start, one Slann, Saurus and Skink. I would guess Mazdamundi, Kroq-Gar, and for the skink, maybe Tehenhauin to differentiate playstyles. Crossing my fingers for a Kroak DLC. Skaven are the biggest unknown for me, because if they stick to the lore it's Clan Pestilens in Lustria. As for unique mechanics, that's up in the air. I'd guess Lizardmen would be incredibly defensive and conservative. I like to envision an inability to create new cities, combined with a fixed recruitment pool. This would be offset by unit strength and having those remaining cities be incredibly well-fortified. Something similar to the Wood Elves defense of the Oak of Ages, but maybe in this case call it the Deliverance of Itza. I would guess the High Elves would be the most well rounded, similar to the Empire, but with smaller unit sizes and a bigger focus on magic. Maybe a hedonism meter for the Dark Elves, and when they're horny enough spawn an attached orgy to the parent army, with an additional focus on raiding and razing like Chaos. I would think the Skaven would be a combination of the Beastmen, Orcs and Dwarfs, in that they move around sneakily but do so underground, with massive cannon fodder units combined with specialists. I would be curious to see if they're treated as another horde faction, if but for the sake of gameplay.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:02
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While the next game be able to play Armies from this game? Would be a shame if Dwarves never got to fight Skaven.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:12
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Fans posted:While the next game be able to play Armies from this game? Would be a shame if Dwarves never got to fight Skaven. The next game will be a map expansion. They want it so that by the end of the trilogy yo'll have a world-spanning map with every faction playable in the same grand campaign. They've said the biggest issue will be the crazy turn times in that case  But they're committed to making it work.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:22
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Fans posted:While the next game be able to play Armies from this game? Would be a shame if Dwarves never got to fight Skaven. Their stated plan is to make a stand alone campaign like the Beastmen and Wood Elves, but also expand the Grand Campaign to include the new factions.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:26
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Do wardancers specialise against anything that's not low-tier scrub units that eternal guard will beat anyway. Anti-armour and anti-large charge defence feels so important against actual threats (the kind my pack of glade riders aren't dealing with).
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Dec 11, 2016 18:32
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sassassin posted:Do wardancers specialise against anything that's not low-tier scrub units that eternal guard will beat anyway. Press their active ability as soon as it's up. That justifies them.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:37
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Aurubin posted:Press their active ability as soon as it's up. That justifies them. Does it help them kill minotaurs and lords?
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Dec 11, 2016 18:40
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sassassin posted:Does it help them kill minotaurs and lords? No, but then they don't die and continue to be annoying. Eternal Guard will do the former given time.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:41
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so I played through the WE campaign win a bit more because I was feeling generous and wanted to help the humans beat Chaos, found out that some of the major cities can be seeded and they're pretty ridiculous. Castle Drakenhof, for example, is: Public Order +6 Reduction in Chaos and Vampire Corruption +2 Income from all buildings +10% (Factionwide) Garrison: 2 Hawk Riders 1 Forest Dragon 3 Dryads 1 Great Eagle 2 Tree Kin 1 Treeman Same building choices as the dinky outposts, but also a gold mine that provides 500 income/turn. Kislev is the same as above but their unique building is some ratty fur trading outpost. I'm sure a lot of the major cities (Altdorf, Marienburg, the French one) are similar. Didn't try it out on the major Greenskin or Dwarf cities but maybe I will later. Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 19:01
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 A lesson all humans should heed: Don't Piss Off The Trees
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Dec 11, 2016 19:22
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Haven't played total warhammer in a while, how does the multiplayer work with people having/not having the DLC? If one player has it and the other doesn't, do they both have access to the DLC units or is the guy with the DLC at a advantage?
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Dec 11, 2016 19:24
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Haven't played total warhammer in a while, how does the multiplayer work with people having/not having the DLC? You have to buy the DLCs to have access to those factions/regiments of reknown in battles and co-campaigns.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:39
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Haven't played total warhammer in a while, how does the multiplayer work with people having/not having the DLC? If you dont have the DLC you cant choose certain factions, generals, or regiments of reknown, but your opponent/coop player can if they have the DLC
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Dec 11, 2016 19:46
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Morghur with the right upgrades can get spawn down to 0 upkeep. Yeah, you read that right: 0. You need 3 points into Blessed by Evil (blue skill tree) + Desecrated Altar + Morghur's factionwide discount on spawn price, but it can be factionwide (if everybody takes Blessed by Evil), which lets you sustain a completely ridiculous number of doomstacks.  I'm just about finished with my current Beastmen GC, but I have to give this a try.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:47
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420 Gank Mid posted:If you dont have the DLC you cant choose certain factions, generals, or regiments of reknown, but your opponent/coop player can if they have the DLC So, basically don't bother with the multiplayer unless you bought all the DLC then?
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Dec 11, 2016 20:00
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sassassin posted:Do wardancers specialise against anything that's not low-tier scrub units that eternal guard will beat anyway. Wardancers are great and versatile because of their speed (48!), incredibly high melee attack/defense, and 25% ward to physical resistance. Asrai Spear Wardancers are ridiculous. They can reliably beat Greatswords, Demigryph Knights, Giants, Chaos Spawn, and Bestigors in a head-to-head fight.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:03
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Seriously if you make friends with the brettonians in the mini-campaign you will SWIM IN AMBER and have lots of friendly stacks and crazy map vision that can run interference with the beastmen. And sometimes your woodelf allies will declare on them, in which case you break alliance with the elves and take their full-blown cities. Just don't upgrade that drat tree until you've got fat stacks and techs, the beastmen just spawn a couple stacks to the north and/or west of the forest every couple turns until you trigger the big waves I wouldn't sweat the WE building slots AT ALL in the mini-campaign. Take that bottom right territory and slap your council or tech buildings in there. The grand campaign is another story, but long-term you make so much money sacking and coupled with the global recruitment tech you can one turn recruit almost everything everywhere . It is weird that they have three different defensive chains though
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Dec 11, 2016 20:05
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Magni posted:Huh. Guess I'll have to give the Rangers a shot then. Though if you just want to slow down enemies and leave the killing to someone else, I guess Eternal Guard with shields are going to do the job similarily well at a much lower cost. That's the thing, there really isn't anyone else to do the killing. When I say "slow down superheavies," what I should have made clearer was that you're slowing them down in the way that a runaway truck gets slowed slow by slamming into cars. A single car won't do it, but a couple stacked back to back might. On the other hand, you're not stopping the truck with Hot Wheels no matter how many of them you put in its path. And eventually, you have to stop the truck. Rangers have the highest AP in the Wood Elf roster outside of single-model units like treemen / dragons / heroes, and a 39 Melee Attack (second only to Sword-dancers' 49) which lets them have a decent - not great, but decent - hit rate against those superheavies, and a good one against things like Chaos Warriors and Greatswords. To put it in perspective, Eternal Guard flailing at Chosen have a 4% hit rate. One unit of Guard will be lucky to kill three Chosen models before they break, and usually won't even manage that. Two units of them isn't twice as good, because they can't get the surface area they need to deal damage, even factoring in spear length. You pay more than the cost of a ranger and two army slots to get worse results. They're also fragile on a per-model basis, more so even than Rangers. Rangers don't trade one-for-one with the toughest infantry in the game, and that's certainly working as intended. At the same time, even though they'll lose that fight, they're the most cost-efficient option I've found so far. That said, they would be better used as flankers into the back or side of something that's already stuck in a tarpit. Now, it has to be said that everything I'm writing is based on multiplayer scenarios. Given hilarious campaign buffs from Orion, yeah, things will go differently, and Eternal Guard might even be able to take out Chaos Warriors or Greatswords.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:13
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Jamwad Hilder posted:so I played through the WE campaign win a bit more because I was feeling generous and wanted to help the humans beat Chaos, found out that some of the major cities can be seeded and they're pretty ridiculous. Castle Drakenhof, for example, is: From the tips CA put out about the wood elf campaign -There are 9 secret special outposts in the world at the capitals of Erengard, Marienburg, Altdorf, Black Crag, Castle Drakenhof, Couronne, Miragliano, Kislev and Karaz a Karak. Occupying them will allow you to build a hidden outpost which grants +10% factionwide income bonus each and has dragons as garrison! This means that conquering all of them will yield +90% factionwide income bonus and 18 amber which will be pretty secure ( I did mention they have dragons as garrison right?). Go out there and explore!
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Dec 11, 2016 20:14
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:So, basically don't bother with the multiplayer unless you bought all the DLC then? I don't think any of the DLC content is essential to compete in multiplayer, except maybe the sneaky stabbers if you want to play greenskins.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:40
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Has anyone noticed since the update that archers are sometimes just go straight up loving retarded and shoot at the ground right in front of themselves? It happens every single battle and sometimes the one or two volleys they miss would be the one to drive a charging unit off the field, but instead they loving miss and die. On top of that sometimes if you have auto-fire on, and click a particular enemy unit, the archers will continue to fire at some other random unit. It's driving me loving insane. gently caress this game sometimes, seriously.
Fresh Shesh Besh fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 20:45
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hm a single enemy hero survived this battle, he has no visible health bar left and the win bar is entirely yellow lets auto resolve *kills half my stack*
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Dec 11, 2016 20:46
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In interviews by CA, Waywatchers (archer unit) and Waystalkers (hero) were to also have Hawkish Finesse, in addition to Hawkish Precision: You can download a mod that fixes this before presumably CA releases a hotfix, similar to the Flagellants situation. Download here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=815981145&searchtext=hawkish theDOWmustflow fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 20:55
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I like the Wood Elves because it fixes the biggest problem with TW:W: the overworld map is a complete clusterfuck of idiocy. The Empire in particular is just a huge mess of constant Orc and Beastmen invasions that pop up from no where and make the inital 10-20 turns one of those "Oh, an orc army just spawned and razed two provinces before I can respond, restart! I really think the world map part of Total War went to poo poo when they removed provinces and went to the 3d map.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:02
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:Has anyone noticed since the update that archers are sometimes just go straight up loving retarded and shoot at the ground right in front of themselves? It happens every single battle and sometimes the one or two volleys they miss would be the one to drive a charging unit off the field, but instead they loving miss and die. On top of that sometimes if you have auto-fire on, and click a particular enemy unit, the archers will continue to fire at some other random unit. It's driving me loving insane. gently caress this game sometimes, seriously. I have noticed that archers are worse at leading a moving target, even one charging directly at them. I also had a weird thing happen where a unit of waywatchers being closely chased by minotaurs shot every second volley straight up into the air. If they hadn't done that, they probably would have routed the minotaurs without being slaughtered.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:03
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Xae posted:I like the Wood Elves because it fixes the biggest problem with TW:W: the overworld map is a complete clusterfuck of idiocy. The Empire in particular is just a huge mess of constant Orc and Beastmen invasions that pop up from no where and make the inital 10-20 turns one of those "Oh, an orc army just spawned and razed two provinces before I can respond, restart! Yeah, TW never recovered from that. EDIT: I say this but I feel the need to clarify I love the newer TW's way more than any of the old ones, but the campaigns are definitively worse since they moved to a 3D map, with an exception (Shogun 2, Napoleon) in the cases where it was in effect a 2D map.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:10
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:So, basically don't bother with the multiplayer unless you bought all the DLC then? If you are being serious and competitive and trying to climb the ladder in multiplayer in this game you're probably doing it wrong, tbh.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:15
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Kestral posted:TL;DR, use Wardancer Spears against heavy cav, monsters, and regular infantry, break out the Rangers when you need to hack heavy infantry apart, or slow superheavy units like Chosen down. Nice! I was wondering how things would change against grand campaign factions. Though, I wonder about custom battle testing to some extent since a lot of the tech/lord bonuses you get to units are static changes, which might favor the unit with a lower stat in an area over one with a higher stat. Or in the case of the speardancers, wouldn't the weapon damage buff of the council position and the +attack effectively be doing double work? On the armor front I'm also not sure if going from 15 to 47 armor is more effective than going from 40 to 72, but I would think so. Though, on the flip-side, the rangers might get more out of the +melee defense buffs due to starting lower. I'll have to actually try stuff out whenever I get around to a Grand Campaign with them. Custom Battle testing is definitely helpful for multiplayer at least.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:39
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