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Each pillar battle actually represents a team of 9 (IIRC), so a lot of servants ascend just to deal with that many. So far it seems every single Goethia demon minus one is accounted for.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:36
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Alright I got some spare friend slots apparently, anyone here on this list goons?quote:みらい
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Dec 23, 2016 16:51
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Kuro complains about having to fight tentacle monsters as a magical girl 
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Dec 23, 2016 17:03
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Wait, just so I'm clear, is there any reason for me to continue rushing through Babylon now? I'm trying to decide whether to continue Babylon or grind caster XP cards for Merlin today.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:13
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Ytlaya posted:Wait, just so I'm clear, is there any reason for me to continue rushing through Babylon now? I'm trying to decide whether to continue Babylon or grind caster XP cards for Merlin today. There's probably going to be a final, final raid boss for Solomon himself. There should still be time to make it, though why they didn't set things even higher I have no idea, especially with the weekend/a holiday-ish period even in Japan coming up. I should be able to finish Babylon today and join in for final pokes. Sun Wu Kampf posted:Holy crap, that means all the event singularities are canon. I thought this had been understood for some time? Yes, all the events are canon. Chaldea got into some goofy poo poo in between participating in multiple brutal servant wars. But I mean, Christmas 2016 for example partially doesn't work if you don't assume it's canon with Orleans and London and happens well after. And Dantes being summoned by Solomon was something I idly wondered but wasn't sure they'd go whole hog on. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 18:24
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SpaceDrake posted:There's probably going to be a final, final raid boss for Solomon himself. There should still be time to make it, though why they didn't set things even higher I have no idea, especially with the weekend/a holiday-ish period even in Japan coming up.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:29
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There are always Xp Dailies to grind, even when nothing is going on, but events are limited time only, so focus on getting there. Trying to convince myself more than you here to finally finish that bloody story
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Dec 23, 2016 18:45
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Random F/SN question - Shirou says how he couldn't beat anyone but Gilgamesh by using UBW, but why not? Can't he also shoot swords everywhere just like Gilgamesh? Does Gilgamesh just shoot the swords harder or something (though if he did it seems like Shirou wouldn't have been able to deflect them as easily).
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Dec 23, 2016 20:18
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Still no 5-Star, but I got Rama! Woo!
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Dec 23, 2016 20:21
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Shirou is only good at copying weapon. Gil only owns shitload of weapons. Both are not proficient in these weapons. UBW give Shirou an edge to matching up with the weapon spamming. Gil is too egotistic to go all out on mongue. Refuse to use Ea and the chain of heaven. The chain literally saved him twice against herk and alex. Shirou should had never won under other circumstances.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:24
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Well, technically, shirou still didn't win since gil is still standing and ready to end shirou, but the plot 'dark' hole interrupted him, and even then, gil used his chain to suicide with shirou if archer didn't interfered.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:30
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Nyaa posted:Shirou is only good at copying weapon. I got the impression that against Alexander Gilgamesh just felt like using the chain and could have moved backwards and continued shooting him with swords if he wanted to instead. Like, Gilgamesh seemed to make a point of standing in one spot the entire fight. But yeah, I understand how Shirou would have definitely lost if Gilgamesh were taking him seriously from the start. But I don't see why Shirou/Archer wouldn't also be capable of defeating a bunch of servants using Gil's "shoot a bunch of swords" strategy.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:31
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It's quite symbolic in a way that his best friend Enkide's chain saved him so many time.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:32
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Ytlaya posted:. But I don't see why Shirou/Archer wouldn't also be capable of defeating a bunch of servants using Gil's "shoot a bunch of swords" strategy.  Edit: It was shirou's better 'swordmanship' that really harmed gil in the end. Edit2: all the time he spent training with saber did not go to waste. Edit 3: the biggest factor is still Gil hesitation to pull Ea in battle, and that's always a big no no that will cost your life or arm. Nyaa fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 20:34
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Nyaa posted:Same reason why caster's laser beam spam didn't kill anyone. Haha, yeah. On a somewhat related note, if you think about it a lot of the Noble Phantasms in this series are basically win buttons unless the narrative happens to be written in such a way that they're used against someone who just happens to have an ability that counters them. Like Lancer's thrown Gae Bolg; unless someone just happens to have a super powerful shield, like Archer, what do you even do against that? It never misses. Or Alexander's reality marble NP. I tend to prefer the NPs that can be used creatively in some way, like Rule Breaker, Diarmuid's spears, etc. I guess you could argue that this is where the Master comes in, though. Like, the Master has to take into account that many other servants have an automatic win button and come up with a strategy around that.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:42
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You can also survive gae bolg if you have high luck stat.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:45
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Nyaa posted:You can also survive gae bolg if you have high luck stat. Isn't that just the "reverses cause and effect" version, not the thrown "blows up several blocks" version? edit: And the reverses cause and effect version can also be avoided just by keeping far enough away from Lancer when he charges his spear up.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:08
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Ytlaya posted:Ah, I'll see how far I can get then. I was a little bummed because I'm all out of those ascension note items (that I need to ascend Merlin) and heard this column thing dropped them. Well let me put it this way: the event is still budgeted for at least 170 or so hours still, I believe. They may respawn the raid versions of the Ars Goetia Demon Pillars for the weekend crowd, but we'll see. I'm definitely getting there tonight, but we'll see what's still alive by then 
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Dec 23, 2016 21:12
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Actually, Shirou won because tracing a weapon also copies the skills of the wearer, while Gilgamesh has no innate talent to use the weapons he owns.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:33
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MonsieurChoc posted:Actually, Shirou won because tracing a weapon also copies the skills of the wearer, while Gilgamesh has no innate talent to use the weapons he owns. Gilgamesh still would have hosed his poo poo up if he had used Ea from the beginning or worn his golden armor. edit: But that pride is a fundamental aspect of his character/personality so he'd never do that again a mongrel. Is it canon that F/SN Gilgamesh was more of a bad person than F/Z Gilgamesh due to the grail ooze or something?
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Dec 23, 2016 23:26
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Ytlaya posted:Random F/SN question - Shirou says how he couldn't beat anyone but Gilgamesh by using UBW, but why not? Shooting swords at people is a parlor trick that any half decent Servant could easily deal with. It only works for Gilgamesh because he's shooting superweapons, and even then a plain old Gate of Babylon only ever finished off I think Medea. Not only does UBW shoot shittier swords, but it also drains Shirou dry way too fast. The only situation where it'd be useful is if for some reason Shirou needed to stall for just enough time to run up and slash a dude, and what do you know that happened to be exactly the situation against Gilgamesh. edit: Also the other guy needs to be standing still for some reason and just let Shirou throw swords at him, which was why Shirou took the time to taunt Gilgamesh first. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 23:36
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Ytlaya posted:Is it canon that F/SN Gilgamesh was more of a bad person than F/Z Gilgamesh due to the grail ooze or something? quote:Gilgamesh is unable to be controlled or blackened due to his powerful ego that can stave back the mental pollution. He claims that someone would need at least three times that amount to even think about affecting him. However, the incarnation inevitably makes his human side resonate with the people of the era, making him much more destructive and impulsive in the Fifth Holy Grail War compared to the Fourth.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:37
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He was pretty evil in FZ too
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Dec 23, 2016 23:42
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BlitzBlast posted:Shooting swords at people is a parlor trick that any half decent Servant could easily deal with. It only works for Gilgamesh because he's shooting superweapons, and even then a plain old Gate of Babylon only ever finished off I think Medea.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:47
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^^^ Yeah, I get the impression that GoB could handle the vast majority of servants just through shooting them a bunch. I mean, he finished most of Berserker's lives that way.BlitzBlast posted:Shooting swords at people is a parlor trick that any half decent Servant could easily deal with. It only works for Gilgamesh because he's shooting superweapons, and even then a plain old Gate of Babylon only ever finished off I think Medea. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that once UBW is actually summoned calling the swords existing within it costs no additional mana (though if the weapons inside are destroyed, remaking them costs mana). Like, isn't that the whole point of UBW? He can summon all the weapons while outside of UBW without activating it, but if he does that each individual weapon costs him mana. Also, the weapons are apparently at least in the ballpark of the originals in terms of strength, or else they wouldn't help against Gilgamesh's versions (or shooting a bunch of trash swords would suffice, as opposed to having to scan and block them with their copies). One possibly explanation that comes to mind is that even though all the NP copies exist in UBW, activating them would cost Shirou additional mana, so he can't take advantage of swords that explode or call down lightning or whatever like Gilgamesh can (though Gilgamesh has usually done pretty well by just impaling dudes it seems).
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Dec 24, 2016 00:06
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At the very least, they're special magical artifact swords with all sorts of special properties. Sure, you won't be making them shoot laser beams or call down the heavens but they're still magical artifacts.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:14
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I feel like the whole "learn the skills of the owner of the original weapon" aspect of UBW was a bit of a missed opportunity for some cool fights. I can imagine a situation with EMIYA switching to different weapons during a fight and having his fighting style keep changing as a result.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:16
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I like how after everything in Stay and Zero, Caster Gil has shown us that he's actually amazingly good at being the thing he claims to be when he's there and in charge.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:26
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Ytlaya posted:I feel like the whole "learn the skills of the owner of the original weapon" aspect of UBW was a bit of a missed opportunity for some cool fights. I can imagine a situation with EMIYA switching to different weapons during a fight and having his fighting style keep changing as a result. But then he'd use a degraded NP with skills at best on par with the original wielder against someone without that handicap. And if his opponent recognizes his sword he can guess his fighting style and he's already at a pretty big disadvantage against other melee servants. His two swords may be lovely NPs, but at least they're not degraded and he has a super unique combat style with them, that throws other servants for a loop. He's supposed to be lovely compared to other servants, so just playing whack-a-mole with the biggest stick he can conjure doesn't sound like something he'd excel at.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:39
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Gilgamesh is a lot more versatile against a regular Servant; like he can have them appear behind or in a dome pattern around a Servant and can open up his portals to spam them in a way that Archer and Shirou can't, or at least not as easily. Then Gilgamesh has the original weapons with their original states, Shirou's and Archer's lose 1 rank. It isn't clear to be if Shirou can use Broken Phantasm. Archer can, but good luck summoning his Reality Marble before someone like Cu stabs him. In a sword-pushing contest Shirou and Archer lose; there isn't a way for Archer to outfight Cu with a spear; Archer can probably win if he uses Caladabolg because Cu is weak to it, + Hit & Run tactics; but it's questionable if he can project it and reinforce it in time. Archer sword spams against Herekles and loses in Fate; supposedly I'd imagine this is because he never has the time to actually summon his Reality Marble which might have given him the ability to fight Herekles on an even playing field; he probably could only kite for so long before Herc gets a swing in not having to protect Illya. Reddit has a similar question and here's some other ideas: Also Cu has protection from Arrows, and this is probably why it took Gilgamesh 10-11 hours to win in the Fate route (albeit considering he was likely toying with Lancer, taking his time so Saber and Shirou can escape, and enjoying himself). Additionally, Gilgamesh has armor, shields, amulets, potions, all sorts of goodies to protect himself that Shirou and Archer (being glass canons) don't (Archer has at least one very good shield but we've never seen Archer use it and other projections at the same time?). Ytlaya posted:I feel like the whole "learn the skills of the owner of the original weapon" aspect of UBW was a bit of a missed opportunity for some cool fights. I can imagine a situation with EMIYA switching to different weapons during a fight and having his fighting style keep changing as a result. Doesn't he fight seriously in Hollow Ataraxia with Hrunting?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:41
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Archer does a lot better when he is serious enough to do his long range nuking like his class is suppose to do. That owned Saber in three shots. Illya immediately called off Herk because she knew this is bad news even with nine lives.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:Archer sword spams against Herekles and loses in Fate; supposedly I'd imagine this is because he never has the time to actually summon his Reality Marble which might have given him the ability to fight Herekles on an even playing field; he probably could only kite for so long before Herc gets a swing in not having to protect Illya. Raenir Salazar posted:Additionally, Gilgamesh has armor, shields, amulets, potions, all sorts of goodies to protect himself that Shirou and Archer (being glass canons) don't (Archer has at least one very good shield but we've never seen Archer use it and other projections at the same time?).
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Dec 24, 2016 01:02
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Shirou, and by extension, EMIYA, always have an energy consumption issue, which is what keeps them from being super OP. As Nasu said, if they have the juice to be able to fully power something with an Excalibur-class prana discharge, things get a lot different. Incidentially, the EMIYA that's in Extella can do this because in the Moon Cell you have infinite magical energy
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Dec 24, 2016 02:24
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Wuxi posted:But then he'd use a degraded NP with skills at best on par with the original wielder against someone without that handicap. And if his opponent recognizes his sword he can guess his fighting style and he's already at a pretty big disadvantage against other melee servants. His two swords may be lovely NPs, but at least they're not degraded and he has a super unique combat style with them, that throws other servants for a loop. Oh, I'm referring to not just using other NPs, but switching between them frequently during a fight. So like attacking with some sword NP and then instantly switching to a spear or some other weapon (and the style of its user) to confuse his opponent. Even if he's weaker with any one weapon, effectively having countless different fully developed fighting styles at his disposal could be useful.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:42
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Wuxi posted:He was injured, wasn't he? IIRC he was recovered by then.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:55
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ Yeah, I get the impression that GoB could handle the vast majority of servants just through shooting them a bunch. I mean, he finished most of Berserker's lives that way. GoB's big advantage is that it costs like nothing, so Gilgamesh can just keep up the sustained fire until the other person eventually screws up. But in and of itself you'd have to be a real poo poo Servant to just die right away to bladespam. Remember that Gilgamesh had to break out Enkidu against Berserker. quote:I'm pretty sure I remember reading that once UBW is actually summoned calling the swords existing within it costs no additional mana (though if the weapons inside are destroyed, remaking them costs mana). Like, isn't that the whole point of UBW? Yes, that's what UBW does. But manifesting UBW as a Reality Marble isn't free. I'm not sure what's confusing about this. quote:Also, the weapons are apparently at least in the ballpark of the originals in terms of strength, or else they wouldn't help against Gilgamesh's versions (or shooting a bunch of trash swords would suffice, as opposed to having to scan and block them with their copies). They're close, but the main advantage UBW had was that it could just fire more swords at once. That's why Shirou was able to wade through the bladespam at all. You're honestly overthinking this. The final battle between Shirou and Gilgamesh was Nasu straight up writing everything to go Shirou's way because otherwise it wouldn't even be a contest. EDIT: Also RIP Halphas. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 03:23
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BlitzBlast posted:Yes, that's what UBW does. But manifesting UBW as a Reality Marble isn't free. I'm not sure what's confusing about this. Yeah, all I was wondering was why Archer couldn't use UBW against some random servant enemy and then spam weapons Gilgamesh style (since they don't cost extra once it's active). And I'm totally aware I'm overthinking it! It just bugged me some since visually UBW seems to resemble Gilgamesh's use of Gate of Babylon, but Shirou says "I couldn't defeat anyone but Gilgamesh here." Though I guess the main reason that makes sense is that Shirou wouldn't be able to run away from any other servant inside of UBW (they'd probably be able to instantly gank him before he could do anything and he'd probably have trouble even following them visually to hit them with his blades). EMIYA wouldn't have that problem, though (and since it's only Shirou who says "I couldn't defeat anyone else" that doesn't mean EMIYA couldn't win against a bunch of people inside of UBW).
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Dec 24, 2016 04:17
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So guess who appeared in my random one ticket. I don't deserve this...
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Dec 24, 2016 04:35
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I like Merlin's art and the use of colors in his portrait. I'll probably use him more than Waver (in situations that don't call for using both) just because I like the way he looks more (even though overall I think Waver is still a bit better in most situations).
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Dec 24, 2016 04:38
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0_0 My last two tickets gave me D'Eon and Merlin. My luck's finally turning around. Edit: Robin Hood keeps being awesome fighting the Saber pillar. 200 000 damage on his NP is the norm. MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 07:31
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