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doverhog posted:Did you you know V for Vendetta the movie is based on a 1988 graphic novel by Alan Moore? You should check the original out. I knew there was a Moore comic that it's based off of, but I've never read it. How "based" is it? Watchman, where it's real drat close, or Super Mario Bros, where there is a plumber?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:04
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Das Boo posted:I knew there was a Moore comic that it's based off of, but I've never read it. How "based" is it? Watchman, where it's real drat close, or Super Mario Bros, where there is a plumber? Well the movie is much less boring than the original since the original is an Alan Moore piece and he's very bad at what he does.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:05
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Jerry Cotton posted:It's based on a serial by Alan Moore in Warrior in the early 1980s actually Yes, I'm sure the studio buying the option or the guys making the movie read Warrior in 1980. In any case, the comic is different, mainly in that V is not in any way a hero. He's a tragic consequence of fascism and government terrorism, a monster they created, but still unequivocally a monster. The plot is fairly close, but like Watchmen the tone and the message of the piece is more or less completely lost.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:06
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Jerry Cotton posted:I looked them up and his young husband is gross and should wash his hair. fry's been repressed and celibate for like 2/3rds of his life let him have his rookie life mistakes
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Dec 24, 2016 00:06
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doverhog posted:Yes, I'm sure the studio buying the option or the guys making the movie read Warrior in 1980. I don't know or care about those guys, that's just where I read it.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:07
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Ok Jerry. Name a writer that is good if Alan Moore is bad.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:08
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doverhog posted:Ok Jerry. Name a writer that is good if Alan Moore is bad. Tolstoy? I don't care about Moore either way, but lol if you think he ranks anywhere outside the decidedly mediocre part of the spectrum.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:10
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doverhog posted:Ok Jerry. Name a writer that is good if Alan Moore is bad. Comics aren't made by a writer. That's the problem with Alan Moore; he's in love with his own writing and thinks comics are the right place to put a lot of text in.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:12
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So did you actually read Tolstoy, or pick his name from a list of classics to have someone you know is safe to call "good"? Jerry, that's a fine opinion to have, but you didn't answer the question.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:13
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Er almost any writer outside of superhero comics?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:14
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Any writer outside of superhero comics is good?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:14
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doverhog posted:Ok Jerry. Name a writer that is good if Alan Moore is bad. There aren't any. The written word is inherently worth less than other art forms.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:15
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Tolstoy probably got paid by the word which is why he's bad as well. (In fact most of the
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Dec 24, 2016 00:15
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doverhog posted:Jerry, that's a fine opinion to have, but you didn't answer the question. Your question was completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:16
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Jerry fears to call a writer good, because his only strength is in saying things are bad and a joke.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:17
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hard counter posted:fry's been repressed and celibate for like 2/3rds of his life he did, it's why he's a convicted felon
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Dec 24, 2016 00:17
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doverhog posted:So did you actually read Tolstoy, or pick his name from a list of classics to have someone you know is safe to call "good"? Yes, I have read Anna Karenina and War and Peace as well as his collected correspondence. Anyway, I went with the one indisputable example. There are literally hundreds of contemporary authors who are leagues ahead of anything the trashy graphic novel genre has ever produced. doverhog posted:Any writer outside of superhero comics is good? Not really, it's just that superhero comics are so bad they make everything else look great in comparison. Stephanie Meyer wouldn't be considered a real author under most circumstances, but put her next to a comic book, and suddenly she looks like the new Charlotte Bronte.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:19
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Brian K. Vaughan is pretty good, but aside from that, yeah they don't have a super track record.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:21
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steinrokkan, you are categorically saying that the medium of comics is trashy in and of itself? I'm not saying that Alan Moore is the greatest writer, I'm saying that he is good. This is not an unpopular opinion among, for example, professional critics.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:27
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steinrokkan posted:Tolstoy? Can I ask why you picked Tolstoy? I mean I know we're just comparing a dude to Moore here but I usually have a hard time appraising people whose original works I haven't actually read because I need a translation of them - some translators make totally different choices and it very much affects the reading of the whole thing. The difference may not be night and day but it's there. Don't get me wrong, I admire the ideas behind Tolstoy's work, the way he constructs and develops them, the topics he'll willing to jump on, etc, etc but I'd personally feel dishonest appraising him because I'm looking at his stuff through a veil somebody else sized up. Pick posted:he did, it's why he's a convicted felon i don't think doing a fraud when he was a teen means he also ticked off the make bad relationship decisions from the common list of poor life choices tho
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Dec 24, 2016 00:43
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Pick posted:Any time he's speaking off the cuff it's clear he's not that sharp, and to have him rip on Laurie's intelligence is ridiculous. On the other hand, Sandi Toksvig is legitimately very intelligent, so I'm glad I can watch QI now. I take it you mean Hugh Laurie? Is there anything Fry has said specifically? I'm just curious. But yeah, Fry can be pretty insufferable. It's not a question of him acting smart. He probably believes he's a genius, and everybody agreeing doesn't help. He also has a terrible habit of shooting off at the mouth and expressing surprise when people get irritated and call him out on it. After being surprised, he then has a Twitter tantrum. Not so much anymore...he swore off Twitter earlier this year. He's come back, as they always do, but is a lot more subdued. That said, I don't think he's a bad guy and, despite his bad habits, don't mind him. I like his documentaries. Especially the one where he visited every state in the US.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:49
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He does in the QI pilot, even if it's ribbing it's ridiculous coming from someone who genuinely doesn't seem as bright.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:52
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doverhog posted:steinrokkan, you are categorically saying that the medium of comics is trashy in and of itself? I'm not saying that Alan Moore is the greatest writer, I'm saying that he is good. This is not an unpopular opinion among, for example, professional critics. There are probably hundreds of professional critics who have at one or more points in their career expressed the opinion that Santana is a good musician.
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Dec 24, 2016 01:20
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how would fry do as a panelist on sandi's QI tho would he take first or last
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Dec 24, 2016 01:21
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Pick posted:He does in the QI pilot, even if it's ribbing it's ridiculous coming from someone who genuinely doesn't seem as bright. I will have to watch it again. I do remember Laurie barely getting a word in, as he wasn't the strongest personality. I love QI, but it's difficult to watch episodes, especially the current series, as the BBC is cracking down on American YouTube viewers.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:04
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doverhog posted:steinrokkan, you are categorically saying that the medium of comics is trashy in and of itself? If he won't I will. Maybe I would use a different word, but trashy is good enough. Many comics are popular and successful, but only among children/teens (physical or mental). I am sure you are about to point to the ~adult~ comics and "graphic novels", but inserting the word "gently caress" every two words doesn't make it anything any self respecting adult should spend time reading. Instead, perhaps they should enjoy the works of the great Stephen King. e: additional unpopular opinion: the steam sale is nothing to get excited about and i can never relate to the "my wallet" jokes. Sure if a game you have been wanting is suddenly on sale then buy it, but usually any game worth buying is only discounted a few dollars and the most heavily discounted ones are things you will play a few hours and never touch again. Big deal. yeah I eat ass has a new favorite as of 06:23 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 06:14
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My writing is absolutely great.
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Dec 24, 2016 06:40
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Das Boo posted:I knew there was a Moore comic that it's based off of, but I've never read it. How "based" is it? Watchman, where it's real drat close, or Super Mario Bros, where there is a plumber? There are similarities. The setting is the same and V being a vigilante that fucks up a totalitarian regime in Britain using questionable tactics is all there. In the comics V is far more morally ambiguous and it isn't preachy. They movie screwed that up pretty badly, actually; the entire point of V is that you could see him as either a stalwart freedom fighter or a dangerous terrorist. Or both, really; in the movie he is 100% totally the good guy. The comics, like everything Moore makes, are way more complex than the movie adaptation. I thought V for Vendetta was a mediocre movie at best. It had its moments but it was pretty forgettable overall.
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Dec 24, 2016 07:09
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Pick posted:He does in the QI pilot, even if it's ribbing it's ridiculous coming from someone who genuinely doesn't seem as bright. Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie take the piss out of each other all the time.
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Dec 24, 2016 07:32
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yeah I eat rear end posted:If he won't I will. Maybe I would use a different word, but trashy is good enough. Many comics are popular and successful, but only among children/teens (physical or mental). I am sure you are about to point to the ~adult~ comics and "graphic novels", but inserting the word "gently caress" every two words doesn't make it anything any self respecting adult should spend time reading. Read Sandman, From Hell and Promethea and report back to the thread to be graded.
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Dec 24, 2016 07:44
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Fun Home and Maus too
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Dec 24, 2016 08:14
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loving Ta-Nehesi Coates writes Black Panther now and the idea of him being a mental teenager is laughable.
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Dec 24, 2016 08:29
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People write the same passionate defenses about their favorite animes, it doesn't make me more likely to watch/read them. I never denied that talented people don't write/draw comics, just that their intended audience isn't well-adjusted "normal" adults.
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Dec 24, 2016 08:36
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The audience I write my fantastic screeds to are unique individuals who all deserve respect.
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Dec 24, 2016 08:44
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From Hell, for example, is over 500 pages, in black and white, and about the police investigation (and freemasons and other stuff) of the Jack the Ripper murders in late 1800s London. The target audience is not teenagers, and there are no superheroes in it.
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Dec 24, 2016 08:51
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Mu Zeta posted:Fun Home and Maus too doverhog posted:Read Sandman, From Hell and Promethea and report back to the thread to be graded. I've read Maus and some issues of Sandman, and really my reaction was "Why are they ruining this story by chaining it to these pointless visuals?" Comics and visual novels take written fiction and visual arts and clip both of their wings to produce truly mediocre results. doverhog posted:From Hell, for example, is over 500 pages, in black and white, and about the police investigation (and freemasons and other stuff) of the Jack the Ripper murders in late 1800s London. The target audience is not teenagers, and there are no superheroes in it. That My Little Pony Fallout crossover fanfic is like twenty thousand pages long and prides itself on being gritty.
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Dec 24, 2016 08:56
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steinrokkan posted:I've read Maus and some issues of Sandman, and really my reaction was "Why are they ruining this story by chaining it to these pointless visuals?" Yes, well if you feel that combining text and pictures is inherently bad, there's not really much to say to that, other than I don't agree. 
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Dec 24, 2016 09:03
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Goons are comparing Alan Moore and Tolstoy. You dense motherfuckers.
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Dec 24, 2016 09:33
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doverhog posted:From Hell, for example, is over 500 pages, in black and white, and about the police investigation (and freemasons and other stuff) of the Jack the Ripper murders in late 1800s London. The target audience is not teenagers, and there are no superheroes in it. There are probably hundreds of texts about the same thing that have much more in depth and interesting information because they aren't hampered by having to draw everything and put all the text in speech bubbles.
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Dec 24, 2016 09:58
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doverhog posted:Yes, well if you feel that combining text and pictures is inherently bad, there's not really much to say to that, other than I don't agree. It's just that comics are the worst, most naive and superficial way to go about it!
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Dec 24, 2016 10:10
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