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Tie-breaker for serial you'd most like to find an episode from This poll is closed. |
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| The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve |
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33 | 44.59% |
| The Highlanders |
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41 | 55.41% |
| Total: | 74 votes | ||
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CommonShore posted:It was a perfectly acceptable episode, but it's not going to get onto anyone's lists of great episodes. Not every episode is going to be Heaven Sent. I know that's an apology for sometimes shoddy writing, but it's also the truth. On a forced distribition across a completely randomly arbitrarily assembled scale of The Twin Dilemma (Or The Zygon whatever) to Heaven Sent, this episode is probably higher than median, but not much. True. It's annoying though, because while it's a solid episode it's not an entire year to write one episode worth of solid. I know time doesn't equal quality but still, gah.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:42
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2house2fly posted:True. It's annoying though, because while it's a solid episode it's not an entire year to write one episode worth of solid. I know time doesn't equal quality but still, gah. I guess we'll have to wait for Sherlock to figure out if the good writing time was spent there instead.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:55
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Neddy Seagoon posted:That is a thing of beauty No, the corridors were bespoke for the episode but the bridge was a reuse of the starliner bridge from the last special. The_Doctor posted:Wait, does that mean Grant grew up in an Ivo Shandor building? It's canon! Write the wikipedia page, commission the comic, prepare 14 different toy lines. 2house2fly posted:True. It's annoying though, because while it's a solid episode it's not an entire year to write one episode worth of solid. I know time doesn't equal quality but still, gah. There's been quite a bit going on between now and then...
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Dec 27, 2016 18:04
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Gaz-L posted:And the Doctor being the last person in the universe to put together that Superman is Clark Kent was pretty good too. I felt like that was a good setup to how the reporter couldn't figure out her nanny was Ghost. A very nice touch to the Doctor figuring out that Clark and Superman are the same person: he still had to draw glasses on Superman to be certain he figured it out.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:23
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CommonShore posted:It was a perfectly acceptable episode, but it's not going to get onto anyone's lists of great episodes. This is my opinion too. It's certainly not one of the all time great episodes, but it was fine. I think it fairs a bit better when you grade on the Christmas special curve, but there are still a few ahead of it.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:34
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Doctor Butts posted:I felt like that was a good setup to how the reporter couldn't figure out her nanny was Ghost. I also like how Grant wears a mask as the Ghost but still has Clark Kent glasses, which are presumably unnecessary since he keeps forgetting to wear them as Grant and doesn't need to as the Ghost
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Dec 27, 2016 18:38
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I finally saw the episode - I found Nice Guy Superman's entire plot to be kind of annoying, but I actually really like Matt Lucas as a companion. He's just weird enough without feeling like an extension of the Doctor's weirdness, and I think he'll work even better with another companion on board. The bad guys were fine, sort of typical RTD era-esque goopy weirdos with inflated egos working at a Big Science Place with a preposterous plan. Totally okay for a Christmas special. Really the only moments I didn't like were Super Friendzone Validation Man and his quest to win the girl, which made her feel kind of like a prop rather than a character. The fact that he's rewarded for his whole Nice Guy shtick is just kind of 1990s. I did like the Doctor interacting with him when he was a kid (him drawing specs on Superman, getting his fingers shut in the windows but waiting to say "Ouch!", that's all fun stuff), and the introduction of the powers was fine, but the fact that they used it to basically tell a worse version of The Lodger for the adult version of him was a waste of the whole "accidentally granting a human superpowers" thing.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:14
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I watched thus with my family and we all loved it, thought it was the best Christmas special. Can totally see why some people would think this would be the drizzling shits though. Also Matt Lucas was brilliant and had a really fun dynamic with the Doctor, looking forward to more of him, which is weird to think.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:41
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As if I couldn't love Peter any more.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:48
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Amppelix posted:setting responses in this thread ranging from "loved it" to "utter horseshit", I'm going to say it'll depend entirely upon your tastes. Feel free to apply this to everything Doctor Who, forever. echoplex posted:As if I couldn't love Peter any more. Except for this, which is objectively  .
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Dec 27, 2016 21:50
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Ratings for this were about on par with last year's X-mas special (a drop of 0.09 which is barely anything), which is a nice surprise considering I expected a whole year off to be bad for ratings, at least at first. AI figure was about the same too.
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Dec 28, 2016 00:14
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2house2fly posted:True. It's annoying though, because while it's a solid episode it's not an entire year to write one episode worth of solid. I know time doesn't equal quality but still, gah. The fact that there wasn't any episodes this year wasn't because they needed a year to write this one special.
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Dec 28, 2016 00:56
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Mr Beens posted:The fact that there wasn't any episodes this year wasn't because they needed a year to write this one special. 
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Dec 28, 2016 02:14
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Mr Beens posted:The fact that there wasn't any episodes this year wasn't because they needed a year to write this one special. I don't know of any behind-the-scenes stories explaining exactly why there weren't any episodes this year. I haven't looked for them, so I don't know that there aren't any, but in their absence you don't know why the show took a year off any better than I do.
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Dec 28, 2016 03:21
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You guys seriously think the show took an entire year off just to make Return of Doctor Mysterio?
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Dec 28, 2016 03:25
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No, but the budgetary reasons why the show took a year out means Moffat HAD a full year to write it.
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Dec 28, 2016 03:32
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I've only JUST realized that the special did not have Merry Christmas Everybody and is therefore trash.
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Dec 28, 2016 03:54
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Gaz-L posted:No, but the budgetary reasons why the show took a year out means Moffat HAD a full year to write it. Yeah, Moffat went over budget again, same with Series 6/7, if I remember correctly.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:08
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I thought it was to give Capaldi time to do some other things, or was that just spin?
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Dec 28, 2016 04:11
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Moffat lost two years of a show he was being paid to produce.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:16
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I know right, this last year has got to be the longest anyone has had to wait for new dr who. It's just unacceptable.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:19
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Moffat is not good at actually running the show.
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Dec 28, 2016 05:49
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Wheat Loaf posted:Lucas was the part I was most expecting to dislike in this episode (because even though I like Matt Lucas, his character was really annoying last year) but he ended up being one of the highlights for me. Same. I've gone from skeptical to totally on board with Matt Lucas for next season. echoplex posted:As if I couldn't love Peter any more. What's even cooler is that he's not just an actor working on the piece appreciating it, he's a super mega nerdfan so it's extra legit.
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Dec 28, 2016 05:52
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Thought it was about average Dr Who episode quality. I enjoyed the Superman references/tropes and didn't find them upsetting. Was surprised the dude didn't cough up the crystal thing at the end. And I didn't catch on that the Doctor was mourning River Song, I thought he was still hung up on losing Clara. Like for the 24 years, instead of it being a night lasting 24 years, I thought it meant Clara 'dying' at age 24 or something. I think they used just the right amount of Matt Lucas in it. Like anymore and he'd be too annoying.
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Dec 28, 2016 10:57
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Rhyno posted:Moffat is not good at actually running the show. Once he is gone the last thing he'll probably want to do for a LOOONG time is write Who, which is a shame because I would love to see him just write an episode or two again in isolation from anything else. Same deal with RTD, I was always sad that he never wrote an episode during Moffat's run. At least we got that 2-parter for Sarah Jane Adventures featuring Matt Smith 
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Dec 28, 2016 11:51
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Back in the classic era, how long did an episode like, say, The Seeds of Doom take to write?
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Dec 28, 2016 13:01
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Dabir posted:Moffat lost two years of a show he was being paid to produce. I'd say BBC is to blame. No reasonable organization will stop producing their moneymaker just because show is bit over budget.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:06
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CobiWann posted:Back in the classic era, how long did an episode like, say, The Seeds of Doom take to write? Seeds of Doom was done faster than average I think, partly because it ended up replacing what became Hand of Fear. It was normally a few months from the script being commissioned to the start of filming I think?
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Dec 28, 2016 13:10
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adhuin posted:I'd say BBC is to blame. No reasonable organization will stop producing their moneymaker just because show is bit over budget. The BBC carries the blame for appointing people that can't manage their budget, sure. The BBC has a different brief to most other broadcasters in that they have to justify what they've funded to the license payer. Unlike a commercial broadcaster they can't just not fund something that makes less money as that gives the government and the press license license to declare "Oh they're just going after the money therefore they aren't a public service broadcaster therefore we should privatise and dismantle them". It's a proper tightrope.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:16
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Much to my surprise I enjoyed that quite a lot. Matt Lucas was even good, and I've never enjoyed his work, except for as George Dawes, the man with the scores. The creature design was great, and Capaldi was excellent as always. Even the superhero stuff, which made me cringe watching the trailer, was amusing and hit the right emotional notes. All in all, a pretty good episode. By Christmas special standards it was really really good.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:22
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Fil5000 posted:The BBC carries the blame for appointing people that can't manage their budget, sure. The BBC has a different brief to most other broadcasters in that they have to justify what they've funded to the license payer. Unlike a commercial broadcaster they can't just not fund something that makes less money as that gives the government and the press license license to declare "Oh they're just going after the money therefore they aren't a public service broadcaster therefore we should privatise and dismantle them". It's a proper tightrope. Not producing anything isn't a solution. Having fixed budget, but not requirement to produce certain amount of episodes is really assbackwards system.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:47
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marktheando posted:Much to my surprise I enjoyed that quite a lot. Matt Lucas was even good, and I've never enjoyed his work, except for as George Dawes, the man with the scores. I felt the same about the superhero stuff in the trailer, because I thought it was going to be a mystery why he was super, but they got that out of the way in the first 5 minutes which was fine with me.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:56
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"Oh you're out of budget? Here's a roll of green bubblewrap and £20 gift card to a craft store. That should be enough for 5 episodes." Go old-school.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:56
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I don't really know the business ins and outs of British television, but it seems odd to task someone who is in charge of most of the writing and rewriting to also be in charge of managing the budgeting. Was this more split up in the old show with the script editor/producer teams? Also, the Christmas Special was solidly average. Didn't do too much for me, but it wasn't terribly offensively dumb either. In terms of Christmas specials, that puts it a bit more ahead than most. I liked the two other Capaldi specials more though.
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Dec 28, 2016 15:08
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Clouseau posted:I don't really know the business ins and outs of British television, but it seems odd to task someone who is in charge of most of the writing and rewriting to also be in charge of managing the budgeting. Was this more split up in the old show with the script editor/producer teams? As far as I'm aware, shows having one showrunner who was in charge of everything wasn't really a thing in British television until RTD took on the role for New Who (he'd brought it back more or less singlehandedly, so he assumed the responsibility). It was more of an American thing before that. However, one thing American shows tend to have that Doctor Who hasn't had is a writers' room, which I imagine eases the burden involved. Chibnall has said he wants to introduce an American-style writers' room when he takes over.
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Dec 28, 2016 15:21
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Wheat Loaf posted:As far as I'm aware, shows having one showrunner who was in charge of everything wasn't really a thing in British television until RTD took on the role for New Who (he'd brought it back more or less singlehandedly, so he assumed the responsibility). It was more of an American thing before that. However, one thing American shows tend to have that Doctor Who hasn't had is a writers' room, which I imagine eases the burden involved. Chibnall has said he wants to introduce an American-style writers' room when he takes over. Which is good -- RTD at least had Julie Gardner working regularly with him, with Phil Collinson and Susie Liggat sharing the third position. Last I kept track, Moffat's not been able to keep hold of a single producer for two consecutive seasons. The longest I've seen someone last is a season and a half, quitting midseason. Hell, last season they had a producer straight up quit after four episodes. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 15:33
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Also, showrunner isn't a real position with defined responsibilities so it can mean whatever people want it to, ranging from glorified head writers to folks involved with every inch of production. It's just a fancy way of saying Executive Producer who talks to the press.
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Dec 28, 2016 15:41
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Open Source Idiom posted:Which is good -- RTD at least had Julie Gardner working regularly with him, with Phil Collinson and Susie Liggat sharing the third position. Not just quit, erased from Doctor Who!
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Dec 28, 2016 16:20
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TL posted:Not just quit, erased from Doctor Who! Interestingly, the reality series Steven Moffat's Oubliette of Eternity was cancelled not for budgetary reasons, but its inability to assemble recap sequences.
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Dec 28, 2016 17:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:As far as I'm aware, shows having one showrunner who was in charge of everything wasn't really a thing in British television until RTD took on the role for New Who (he'd brought it back more or less singlehandedly, so he assumed the responsibility). At the same time a lot of British scripted shows tend to be written by one person or team, with editors and such. That wasn't feasible for Who so a showrunner-type role was the next best thing.
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Dec 28, 2016 18:32
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