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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much? :ohdear: Half-kidding, but this is going to be a pretty big rude awakening.

It doesn't hurt you to act with considered humility for awhile. They aren't expecting you to descend from the heavens with the solutions to all their problems. At the same time, the other developers there aren't all rock-star programming gods; they're just people that (mostly) went through the same process you went through.

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minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much?
Focus on getting some small wins under your belt quickly (fixing a tiny bug or adding a small feature). The key is to pick small things so there's less risk of failure or delay. These wins will grow your confidence.

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003

Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

minato posted:

Focus on getting some small wins under your belt quickly (fixing a tiny bug or adding a small feature). The key is to pick small things so there's less risk of failure or delay. These wins will grow your confidence.

They also help you get familiar with the code base, tool chain, and process particular to that place.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Some companies have been working around that, actually. I think the reasoning is that it's dumb to give a person with like 20 years of experience the same vacation time as a new guy.

Yeah, I recently started at a big company where your vacation is determined by both your job band and years at the company. So I was hired in at four weeks while junior devs have three. Of course, I only get another week after ten years but four weeks is pretty sufficient.

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I replied with a loose negotiation request. I'm taking the offer regardless.

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much? :ohdear: Half-kidding, but this is going to be a pretty big rude awakening.

Stay calm and Google Stack Overflow

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008
Pondering whether or how I should ask my director (who was my skip-level manager, currently interim manager) if I can switch teams, or stick it out, or something in between.

I like my current team's people and think the project is important (perhaps it will eventually recognized as such...I hope), but we get very little institutional support from other engineering teams, to the point we're having to go way above and beyond to support our project, and performance reviews can't and don't really take this into account, and more time is spent bugfixing other teams' work than focusing on our specific mandate.

The team's lost 3 engineers and a manager over the course of the year...me and a teammate both kind of feel like the goals (while laudable) are way more ambitious than the reality that the team is treading a lot of water fixing stuff for other teams, who are not incentivized to help (for good reason though), but my team is also not evaluated on the basis of keeping those things working, but rather on feature work, an arbitrary amount of which is actually recognized or understood as useful.

(Also, frustrating to even seek advice for due to NDAs around some details of the project. :/)

Er, guess I kind of rambled on there. Bah.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much? :ohdear: Half-kidding, but this is going to be a pretty big rude awakening.
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Any advice for dealing with severe imposter syndrome when coming from a work environment where you feel like you didn't progress very much? :ohdear: Half-kidding, but this is going to be a pretty big rude awakening.

Modern popularized "imposter syndrome" is made of inadequate people trying to convince themselves they're wrong about being poo poo. So buck up and improve yourself.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

sarehu posted:

Modern popularized "imposter syndrome" is made of inadequate people trying to convince themselves they're wrong about being poo poo. So buck up and improve yourself.
Neat, tell us all how Dunning-Kruger isn't real next

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
I'm poo poo but going to be paid like I'm less poo poo, how do I improve myself.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm poo poo but going to be paid like I'm less poo poo, how do I improve myself.

Fake it long enough for someone to pay you even more money

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I'm poo poo and I deserve poo poo, explain that mr. smarty computer man :smugbert:

mrmcd
Feb 22, 2003

Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

Vulture Culture posted:

If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm poo poo but going to be paid like I'm less poo poo, how do I improve myself.

Don't equate salary to skill, ability, etc, because that's gonna make your head hurt. There are absolute worthless goldbrickers out there making $200K and there are brilliant, highly effective people making $60K.

A few years back I took a job that paid $50K more. My initial assumption was that they expected me to be worth $50K more than I was before. Cue the feelings of wondering if I could up my game that much.

Turns out I was just fine the way I was, new position posed an appropriate degree of challenge/personal growth and was not insurmountable, and the prior job just paid garbage money.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'm poo poo but going to be paid like I'm less poo poo, how do I improve myself.

Write code.

Seriously. Just write code and read about code at least 5 days a week. Try things you've never tried before. Futz around with popular languages or frameworks or libraries you've never used. Get some big, intimidating tech manuals and read them cover to cover. Read some blogs. Pick a project you want to do and get elbows deep in it. Contribute to something open source. There are tons of options but "write code" is the most important one.

http://www.thedailywtf.com/

Read many articles on that site then do not do what the articles describe.

return0
Apr 11, 2007

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Switching teams

How long have you been on the team? How long had your other colleagues been on before bailing? If you request a transfer, can they realistically decline?

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008

return0 posted:

How long have you been on the team? How long had your other colleagues been on before bailing? If you request a transfer, can they realistically decline?

Since late February/early March, so 10 months. Two of the engineers who bailed had been on it before I started, but can't have been there longer than between 5 to 8 months when they left, which would probably place their tenure at just around a year, I think. The one who had been there longest had been on it since before the team itself shifted products to the one everyone else joined the team to work on, so was there for probably two and a half years. The manager...eight months I believe.

I could make a case for a transfer, but I'm also arguing with myself on whether I should stick with it despite it being undervalued. If I stick with it until it's no longer undervalued, is being established in that role better for me? Or would targeting whatever shiny project is more easily recognized for its substantial value a better strategic move than producing highly significant but under-recognized value?

Iverron
May 13, 2012

Vulture Culture posted:

If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

I went through a range of emotions after reading this post.

Destroyenator
Dec 27, 2004

Don't ask me lady, I live in beer

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

The team's lost 3 engineers and a manager over the course of the year...me and a teammate both kind of feel like the goals (while laudable) are way more ambitious than the reality that the team is treading a lot of water fixing stuff for other teams, who are not incentivized to help (for good reason though), but my team is also not evaluated on the basis of keeping those things working, but rather on feature work, an arbitrary amount of which is actually recognized or understood as useful.

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

I could make a case for a transfer, but I'm also arguing with myself on whether I should stick with it despite it being undervalued. If I stick with it until it's no longer undervalued, is being established in that role better for me? Or would targeting whatever shiny project is more easily recognized for its substantial value a better strategic move than producing highly significant but under-recognized value?
Can you make a case for why the teams goals are unrealistic or not aligned to the work you actually do? It might be the right time to speak with your director about what the team priorities should really be, why your day to day work isn't actually working towards that or your performance review goals, and whether your team even has the people to pull off what's been set out.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008

Vulture Culture posted:

If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
Addendum:
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, because when you believe you are the smartest in the room, you're the rear end in a top hat who thinks himself better than everyone else in the room and some people may be made uncomfortable by your presence.


Destroyenator posted:

Can you make a case for why the teams goals are unrealistic or not aligned to the work you actually do? It might be the right time to speak with your director about what the team priorities should really be, why your day to day work isn't actually working towards that or your performance review goals, and whether your team even has the people to pull off what's been set out.

If we scale our work back to what we *can* do, we'd spend several months focusing on fixing bugs and infrastructure, to enable less risky progress, the latter part of which is an explicit duty of a different team. But were we to do that, we would possibly miss the mark on finding solutions to the higher-level product problem the team needs to address.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer

Vulture Culture posted:

Neat, tell us all how Dunning-Kruger isn't real next

Well...

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Folks can we not argue about stupid stuff and instead just get back to discussing how I don't lose my very comfortably above six figure salary for being an incompetent 1x brogrammer.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
IDK, just keep learning stuff. Try writing some usable software on the side using 90% pure functions (in any language) and that's pretty much guaranteed to make you a better programmer.

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.




This guy is basically right that people don't actually understand the Dunning-Kruger paper but the rest of it... holy hell if every generalization or instance of hyperbole bothers (confuses?) him that much I don't know how he gets through a day.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Changing jobs in mid December has interesting side-effects. Like the new job treats holidays as PTO and you earn PTO only if you are employed on the first of the month. So, technically I didn't get Christmas off even though the office is closed. Hmmm. Similarly, no sick days for me! I feel like they really should have though through the edge cases on this stuff.

And this is a relatively easy contract to hire job change.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

smackfu posted:

Changing jobs in mid December has interesting side-effects. Like the new job treats holidays as PTO and you earn PTO only if you are employed on the first of the month. So, technically I didn't get Christmas off even though the office is closed. Hmmm. Similarly, no sick days for me! I feel like they really should have though through the edge cases on this stuff.

And this is a relatively easy contract to hire job change.

It sounds intentional.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Addendum:
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, because when you believe you are the smartest in the room, you're the rear end in a top hat who thinks himself better than everyone else in the room and some people may be made uncomfortable by your presence.

You can be a domain expert without being an rear end in a top hat. I mean, if I come onto a team and I have 10 years of experience while my coworkers all have 3 or less, then I can fairly reasonably guess that I'll be the best programmer on the team. That doesn't make me a better person, and if I act like a douche then I rightly deserve to be ejected or censured. And of course one of those 3-year guys can easily be more experienced in X domain that I never focused on, like Angular or networks or something. A good team is able to recognize who is the expert in each domain relevant to the team, and then have that expert share their expertise with the other team members so that everyone gets better at everything. So the Angular guy teaches me how Angular works, and I teach him how to avoid wasting a few weeks going down a rabbit hole, and everyone's happier.

I always read the "if you're the smartest person in the room..." saying as being "if you join a team and discover that you completely outclass everyone in every domain relevant to the team, then you're on the wrong team." Because then there's nothing for you to learn on this team because there's nobody who knows more than you do.

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

smackfu posted:

Changing jobs in mid December has interesting side-effects. Like the new job treats holidays as PTO and you earn PTO only if you are employed on the first of the month. So, technically I didn't get Christmas off even though the office is closed. Hmmm. Similarly, no sick days for me! I feel like they really should have though through the edge cases on this stuff.

And this is a relatively easy contract to hire job change.

I don't like the whole holiday-as-PTO thing. It is nice that if you don't travel for Thanksgiving and don't need that Friday off work, or if you don't celebrate Christmas, you can trade the day for somewhere else. But it's also often used to say things like "We offer new hires 26 days PTO" with a great big asterisk that 11 of those are holidays.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008
I mean nobody in a room is ever the smartest in all dimensions, IMO. "Smartest in the room" sounds like a fiction that's impossible to evaluate, and being the best at one thing in a room doesn't mean you gotta get out of there. Maybe you can learn something else unexpected.

I was mostly just throwing that line out there to mess around, anyways, though.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

You can be a domain expert without being an rear end in a top hat. I mean, if I come onto a team and I have 10 years of experience while my coworkers all have 3 or less, then I can fairly reasonably guess that I'll be the best programmer on the team. That doesn't make me a better person, and if I act like a douche then I rightly deserve to be ejected or censured. And of course one of those 3-year guys can easily be more experienced in X domain that I never focused on, like Angular or networks or something. A good team is able to recognize who is the expert in each domain relevant to the team, and then have that expert share their expertise with the other team members so that everyone gets better at everything. So the Angular guy teaches me how Angular works, and I teach him how to avoid wasting a few weeks going down a rabbit hole, and everyone's happier.

I always read the "if you're the smartest person in the room..." saying as being "if you join a team and discover that you completely outclass everyone in every domain relevant to the team, then you're on the wrong team." Because then there's nothing for you to learn on this team because there's nobody who knows more than you do.

That makes you the most experienced not smartest. and maybe those 10 years were self directed teaching you horrible habits. That actually moved you backwards.

The short is always be learning. If there is no one teaching you anything and the tech doesn't allow for anything new then either leave or be so well compensated that having x years of dead time doesn't hinder future salary growth.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

Hughlander posted:

If there is no one teaching you anything and the tech doesn't allow for anything new then either leave

This is the only course of action but it still makes going to a new role daunting.

qntm
Jun 17, 2009

Vulture Culture posted:

If there is no one in the room whose advice you seek and value, you're in the wrong room.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

kitten smoothie posted:

I don't like the whole holiday-as-PTO thing. It is nice that if you don't travel for Thanksgiving and don't need that Friday off work, or if you don't celebrate Christmas, you can trade the day for somewhere else. But it's also often used to say things like "We offer new hires 26 days PTO" with a great big asterisk that 11 of those are holidays.
Yeah, it also depends on how exactly the holiday time is allocated. I get the standard 2 weeks of time to take as I please, but the company is also closed the entire span between December 22 and January 3, a fair thing to tout as an actual benefit.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

This year in particular, I don't really feel the need to take January 2nd off. So that flexibility is nice.

Iverron
May 13, 2012

Anyone doing 1099 work full time for a single "employer"? There's a remote-only position I'm eyeing that's 1099, but the Glassdoor rates look very generous for flyover territory and most of the reviewers seem positive and optimistic.

I have a general grasp on W2 vs. 1099, but the only time I've ever done this before was freelance here and there as side work. Health insurance isn't an issue (spouse's coverage), but I generally have no idea how things like vacation / holiday work in that kind of environment. Is having 40 hours every week a legit concern? What should I be asking in interviews?

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Iverron posted:

Anyone doing 1099 work full time for a single "employer"? There's a remote-only position I'm eyeing that's 1099, but the Glassdoor rates look very generous for flyover territory and most of the reviewers seem positive and optimistic.

I have a general grasp on W2 vs. 1099, but the only time I've ever done this before was freelance here and there as side work. Health insurance isn't an issue (spouse's coverage), but I generally have no idea how things like vacation / holiday work in that kind of environment. Is having 40 hours every week a legit concern? What should I be asking in interviews?

You work everything into your rate. 40 hours can be a concern, as can stability.

There are a bunch of issues on the employer side if they don't handle it correctly. It's a bit cheaper for them, but most places eventually switch to w-2 to avoid tax investigations and litigation from workers due to misclassification.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

Iverron posted:

Anyone doing 1099 work full time for a single "employer"? There's a remote-only position I'm eyeing that's 1099, but the Glassdoor rates look very generous for flyover territory and most of the reviewers seem positive and optimistic.

I have a general grasp on W2 vs. 1099, but the only time I've ever done this before was freelance here and there as side work. Health insurance isn't an issue (spouse's coverage), but I generally have no idea how things like vacation / holiday work in that kind of environment. Is having 40 hours every week a legit concern? What should I be asking in interviews?

1099 work isn't bad, but make sure your rate is at least 50% higher then you think you should make; as you have to pay all of your payroll taxes yourself. Also remember that you don't get overtime; but you aren't salaried either.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

ratbert90 posted:

1099 work isn't bad, but make sure your rate is at least 50% higher then you think you should make; as you have to pay all of your payroll taxes yourself. Also remember that you don't get overtime; but you aren't salaried either.

you do get overtime unless you work over the exempted rate. this is one of the things employers screw up.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

leper khan posted:

you do get overtime unless you work over the exempted rate. this is one of the things employers screw up.

Not as a 1099 contractor.

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leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

ratbert90 posted:

Not as a 1099 contractor.

Form 1099 does not materially affect employment status. IANAL, so I don't want to get into a giant fight, but it's spelled out pretty clearly (at least for CA) on the CA government FAQ.
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_IndependentContractor.htm

Employers screw this up a lot and end up settling for more than they thought they'd save, before any penalties or related tax investigations.

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