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The only motion controls I feel really worked were Metroid Prime 3 and Trauma Center. And with those the focus wasn't on motion, it was on pointing, which the Wii was actually pretty good at. Skyward Sword wasn't garbage at motion controls, but they weren't amazing. I'm not looking forward to the VR Revolution, because to be quite frank I do not want to rely on my garbage body to play games. People talk about immersion, but that's actually gonna be poo poo for it, because YOU are not a master swordsman or whatever. Making Link use your actions (just as an example) won't make you feel badass, because to be beatable by any given player the swordplay would have to be so easy a child could do it. ...that's largely unrelated, but it's still bugging me as a thing that comes up.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:47
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Heavy Metal posted:I'm just glad I'll be able to surf on a shield in the near future! Has no one confirmed shield bomb jumping yet?
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Dec 30, 2016 00:09
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 Lemmings was pretty great. I really enjoyed the SNES version.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:38
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Jehde posted:Has no one confirmed shield bomb jumping yet? Shield bomb jumping confirmed for being rad as hell.  
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Dec 30, 2016 03:54
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Even if it's not officially in the game, I expect someone to make it happen soon after the game is out by messing with the physics.
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Dec 30, 2016 04:20
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pre: Dawn of
The Second Day
- 48 Hours Remain -
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Dec 30, 2016 08:53
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Phimosissy posted:No game needs to work like anything is my point. Centipede didn't need a trackball. There's a difference between trying something new, like applying it sword swings where the direction and strength of the swing can make a difference and more immersive, or dumping it unnecessarily on something basic that doesn't need it and ultimately suffers as a result. Like Jumping. New things are good, but applying them simply for the sake of doing so without further thought to their usage is not.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:43
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God these players on the Zeldathon are the worst. I don't expect speed runs or anything on these mostly casual playthroughs but Jesus they're terrible at these games. And every game they play through has a bunch of onlookers talking amongst themselves about nothing in particular and over each other next to the players for no reason. I keep tuning in just to check out of there on a game I want to see and every time it's the worst stream ever.
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Dec 30, 2016 13:54
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Binding spin to waggle in Super Mario Galaxy was a good idea and felt great. Binding it to the jump button would prevent you from being able to spin while grounded and you're already waving the remote around anyway. If you want to see awful shoehorned motion controls go play monkeyball Wii and marvel at the tilt controlled menu screens.
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Dec 30, 2016 14:18
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Cleretic posted:The only motion controls I feel really worked were Metroid Prime 3 and Trauma Center. And with those the focus wasn't on motion, it was on pointing, which the Wii was actually pretty good at. Skyward Sword wasn't garbage at motion controls, but they weren't amazing. Metroid Prime 1 was fantastic with motion controls because it let you curve homing shots around obstacles by locking on and then firing at an angle. Nothing more satisfying than stun locking space pirates with the Wave Beam from complete safety while they haplessly shoot their pitiful direct-fire lasers into the indestructible wall you're hiding behind.
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Dec 30, 2016 14:34
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Considering grabbing Link Between Worlds because I could use a Zelda hit and I haven't played it yet. Is it as good as I've heard, with a surprising amount of focus on exploration over super-guided funneling you to dungeon after dungeon?
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Dec 30, 2016 16:38
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Harrow posted:Considering grabbing Link Between Worlds because I could use a Zelda hit and I haven't played it yet. Is it as good as I've heard, with a surprising amount of focus on exploration over super-guided funneling you to dungeon after dungeon? It's fantastic. If you liked LttP, you'll probably enjoy it. I can't really remember much about the dungeons, but they put a lot of focus on wall walking.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:46
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Harrow posted:Considering grabbing Link Between Worlds because I could use a Zelda hit and I haven't played it yet. Is it as good as I've heard, with a surprising amount of focus on exploration over super-guided funneling you to dungeon after dungeon? You get the items, BEFORE the dungeons. its so crazy omg. But seriously its insanely good and beautiful, go play it and turn the 3d on even if you usually don't on 3ds games.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:55
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The only game I've enjoyed with the 3D on was Bravely Default, somehow it's the only one that didn't make my head feel weird, but I will definitely try it with Link Between Worlds.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:58
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youcallthatatwist posted:Also, modern controllers aren't perfect. They work well for certain games, like FPSs,
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Dec 30, 2016 17:15
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youcallthatatwist posted:The problems you are describing were the fault of the developers, not the system itself. It is absolutely possible to make a game in which motion controls figure prominently, like Okami or SS, it's just that most people either didn't bother implementing them in any meaningful way, or were hindered due to the wii's terrible hardware, an issue unrelated to motion controls. For a separate but related example, look at touch screens: imagine if people had only tried to port console games to the DS or smartphones or whatever. You'd probably have heard complaints pretty quickly that touch controls didn't offer anything new for videogames, because console games aren't designed around touch screens. 90% of games on the 3DS\Wii U only use the touch screen as a glorified menu and it works, seldom did it ever get used for interesting ideas that wouldn't work on a standard controller. Someone already said the Wii was good with pointer controls which is true, but I literally cannot think of a single game that used it's terrible motion controls for an action that couldn't be done via a button press or joystick movement. youcallthatatwist posted:Also, modern controllers aren't perfect. They work well for certain games, like FPSs, but RTS games are nigh unplayable. They're designed to allow ylu to manipulate a character in 3D space, and they do that very well, but touch/motion controls offer other possibilities. I never said they were perfect for all applications, but they apply to most. You don't even see RTS on consoles anymore outside of Pikmin and I guess the upcoming Halo Wars.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:42
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s.i.r.e. posted:90% of games on the 3DS\Wii U only use the touch screen as a glorified menu and it works, seldom did it ever get used for interesting ideas that wouldn't work on a standard controller. Someone already said the Wii was good with pointer controls which is true, but I literally cannot think of a single game that used it's terrible motion controls for an action that couldn't be done via a button press or joystick movement. A changing context sensitive menu is something you literally cannot do on a regular controller. The fact that Dolphin emulators cant replace the motion in Skyward Sword also make you wrong. The closed game to that was Metal Gear Rising Revengerman. And that had to slow down time to allow you to make the movement that Skyward Sword did instantaneously. So its literally something you couldn't do with an analog stick.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:14
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You could replace the sword stuff in Skyward Sword with an analog stick. It would be just like doing tricks in the Skate games. I kind of like the sword stuff in Skyward Sword though, much better than Twilight Princess. But I'd be ok if they had the same stuff in BotW but using the second stick to choose sword slashes.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:21
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Also just sports stuff like bowling with the wiimotes sold like a zillion Wii units explicitly because it wasn't a standard controller. Might not matter to pro gamer tough guy grognards but it sure mattered to Nintendo's financials
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Dec 30, 2016 18:44
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s.i.r.e. posted:90% of games on the 3DS\Wii U only use the touch screen as a glorified menu and it works, seldom did it ever get used for interesting ideas that wouldn't work on a standard controller. Someone already said the Wii was good with pointer controls which is true, but I literally cannot think of a single game that used it's terrible motion controls for an action that couldn't be done via a button press or joystick movement. Now you're just being obtuse. What about Layton? The Zelda games? Okamiden? TWEWY? I could keep going. The point is, there were plenty of games that put the touch screen to good use. As for motion controls, Splatoon svowed off how good they could be. I'll grant that the gamepad's drawbacks outweighed its strengths, although pikmin and splatoon both used it very well. But hey, it's also the one new control scheme that isn't included in the switch. I am all in favor of people coming up with more intuitive control schemes, even if hardcore grumps complain. the reason you don't see RTSes on consoles anymore is specifically because traditional controllers don't work well for them. For another example, look at adventure games, or puzzle games. youcallthatatwist fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:17
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Cojawfee posted:You could replace the sword stuff in Skyward Sword with an analog stick. It would be just like doing tricks in the Skate games. I kind of like the sword stuff in Skyward Sword though, much better than Twilight Princess. But I'd be ok if they had the same stuff in BotW but using the second stick to choose sword slashes. Metal Gear Rising already perfected sword controls. It felt so goodd
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Dec 30, 2016 19:19
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Cleretic posted:The only motion controls I feel really worked were Metroid Prime 3 and Trauma Center. And with those the focus wasn't on motion, it was on pointing, which the Wii was actually pretty good at. Skyward Sword wasn't garbage at motion controls, but they weren't amazing. VR is going to be The Worst. It's just a step sideways from motion controls. I hate moving to play vidya. It's dumb.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:19
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HIJK posted:VR is going to be The Worst. It's just a step sideways from motion controls. I hate moving to play vidya. It's dumb. thankfully i don't think VR is actually going to be much of a revolution. It actually cracks me up when people say it's the next frontier of vudeo games, because a) the cheapest version available is a $400 expansion to a $400 console that plays$60 minigames, and b) developing for VR is actually suuuuhper restrictive. Every game has to be first person, which means it has to take place in a relatively pretty 3D environment. Plus there's the movement problem. I hope VR succeeds, but it probably won't become.mainstream for a while.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:25
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ITT: People who have never tried VR make wrong assumptions about VR. VR isn't a replacement for the current way to play games, it's another way to play games.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:58
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WaltherFeng posted:Metal Gear Rising already perfected sword controls. It felt so goodd I hope there's a katana in BOTW that allows you to attack super quickly.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:26
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Bombadilillo posted:A changing context sensitive menu is something you literally cannot do on a regular controller. You can and there's videos on YouTube of people getting Skyward Sword running with different configs for standard pads. Here's the the thing though, the sword swings in Skyward Sword are canned animations, one for a swipe up/down/left/right/diagonals, Ocarina of Time already did different angled swipes 20 years ago on a stick direction+button set-up and it worked well, though you never needed to really care about the angle you swung at in OoT. It didn't have as many angles since it wasn't needed but it's possible. youcallthatatwist posted:Now you're just being obtuse. What about Layton? The Zelda games? Okamiden? TWEWY? I could keep going. The point is, there were plenty of games that put the touch screen to good use. As for motion controls, Splatoon svowed off how good they could be. I'll grant that the gamepad's drawbacks outweighed its strengths, although pikmin and splatoon both used it very well. But hey, it's also the one new control scheme that isn't included in the switch. Of all those games the touch screen is used as a mouse interface. You can control all those games just as well on a mouse if not better, or joystick-as-a-cursor type movement. I mean Layton's just a pixel hunt game, there's codes that put standard controls into the DS Zeldas and they work well apparently, I never played Okamiden or TWEWY but I assume Okamiden is just for drawing the symbols? Was it used for anything else?
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Dec 30, 2016 21:35
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gently caress you if you don't think putting a bigass horn button on the touchscreen was one of the best parts of MK8
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Dec 30, 2016 22:00
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Phimosissy posted:gently caress you if you don't think putting a bigass horn button on the touchscreen was one of the best parts of MK8 Behind luigi's glare of course
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Dec 31, 2016 07:07
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Cojawfee posted:ITT: People who have never tried VR make wrong assumptions about VR. VR isn't a replacement for the current way to play games, it's another way to play games. With a decent set of headphones you could also cover general digital entertainment and just "regular" videogames. Sit with the VR glasses on and bam, stadium-sized screen in front of you with surround sound. Also equating motion controls with VR motion-tracking tech is just dumb. Motion controls amount to "look, you waggle and stuff happens onscreen". Motion in VR is "holy poo poo, that's my hand picking up the thing in this virtual world!  "
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Dec 31, 2016 08:32
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Neddy Seagoon posted:With a decent set of headphones you could also cover general digital entertainment and just "regular" videogames. Sit with the VR glasses on and bam, stadium-sized screen in front of you with surround sound. Also equating motion controls with VR motion-tracking tech is just dumb. Motion controls amount to "look, you waggle and stuff happens onscreen". Motion in VR is "holy poo poo, that's my hand picking up the thing in this virtual world! I tried it once at a demo. The hand in the VR game was much hairier than mine.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:54
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pre: Dawn of
The Final Day
- 24 Hours Remain -
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Dec 31, 2016 08:56
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Jonas Albrecht posted:It's fantastic. If you liked LttP, you'll probably enjoy it. I can't really remember much about the dungeons, but they put a lot of focus on wall walking. It really is this good. There were a couple places where I just lucked into some of the puzzle solutions, though, and after I got them, I realized that if I hadn't accidentally tripped over the right answer, I would've been really fuckin' angry at the dungeon design if I read how to do it in a guide. The analogue dungeon to the LttP's Dark Palace really stands out in my mind as somewhere that would've been frustrating if I hadn't accidentally done it correctly the first time.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:59
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The dungeons are really great, most of them build on a core mechanic in smart ways. They also feel more logical rather than videogame-logic "push random blocks" kind of stuff (something I thought Skyward Sword did well too). And they make deliberate use of verticality, moving things up/down etc in a way that really takes advantage of the 3d, it's probably the best use of 3d I've encountered.
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Dec 31, 2016 09:46
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I never liked ALttP's dungeon design since all the puzzles were extremely repetitive (push block, pull one of two switches, kill enemies, over and over and over) but I enjoyed ALbW because of the verticality it added and I felt the puzzle mechanics were stronger.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:41
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Honestly, the part that has aged the worst about older Zeldas (OOT is really guilty of this) is the amount of block pushing.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:46
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To be honest, I've been watching my wife play LttP for the first time lately and I was kind of surprised at how little block pushing and lantern lighting there is compared to what I remember from my childhood. Granted, she's only up to Blind at this point, but I think LttP leans way harder on combat and finding the right way to enter a room. When I look at the puzzles from the perspective of someone who doesn't already know the solutions (e.g. my wife), a lot of things that don't even register to me as a puzzle anymore suddenly seem very interesting. For example, watching someone figure out how to get the Book of Mudora off the top shelf and the smile that follows is pretty great. Same goes for someone figuring out the route to the piece of heart you have 15 seconds to reach. She did indeed wonder why the gently caress pushing a block opens a door in two of the Desert Palace rooms though. If I had to guess why I still think of LttP as a block pushing and lantern lighting game, it's because some of the longest/hardest puzzles for me were probably moving a block across several rooms in Ice Palace or lighting all the torches while on a moving platform in Turtle Rock. They're the most classically Zelda puzzles I can think of outside of killing every enemy (which I think is unfair to consider a "puzzle" so much as a "challenge"), so they tend to stick in our minds more. Edit: But yes I agree that Link Between Worlds's puzzles are definitely more complex and very fun. I think those dungeons are definitely created for an audience with a better baseline understanding of how video games work though. Nickoten fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 18:16
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Skyward Sword is the only Zelda game I've never finished so I decided to beat it before BotW comes out. Getting to the first Ghirahim encounter, I had no problems with the controls but man that fight is frustrating. Even after watching a youtube of the fight it still took me 5 to 6 minutes to beat the first phase. But aside from that the rest is wonderful and probably a good indication of what BotW will be like with the upgrade system and cooking system.
ONE YEAR LATER fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 19:24
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Might be nothing, but GAME has been doing ads with the Switch now, including BotW which they claim will come out March 2017
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Dec 31, 2016 20:13
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Skyward Sword is the only Zelda game I've never finished so I decided to beat it before BotW comes out. Getting to the first Ghirahim encounter, I had no problems with the controls but man that fight is frustrating. Even after watching a youtube of the fight it still took me 5 to 6 minutes to beat the first phase. But aside from that the rest is wonderful and probably a good indication of what BotW will be like with the upgrade system and cooking system. If it helps, the wiimote registers the swing from where it starts, NOT where it is in relation to your body. When swinging to your right, don't wind up (left then right), just swing right, no matter where the wiimote is at the moment.
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Dec 31, 2016 20:19
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After I played ALBW, I decided to try out ALTTP on the virtual console, and... I understand why the game was considered so revolutionary at the time, but imo every single one of ALTTP's successors has improved on it in every way. The biggest issue is that block-pushing and kill-every-enemy "puzzles" were still new and original at the time, which I guess is why they felt the need to structure like every puzzle in the game around them? I got past the first dark world dungeon and then called it quits, because I just wasn't having any fun. Also the bosses are super boring. Sure, the "third hit's the charm!!" style has become pretty well-worn at this point, but I'll take that any day of the week over "the strategy in this fight is, uh, hit it a bunch i guess". World design is great, though! It made me realize that the zeldas after MM feel like their overworld is almost an afterthought - just a way to connect a handful of disparate levels. ONE YEAR LATER posted:Skyward Sword is the only Zelda game I've never finished so I decided to beat it before BotW comes out. Getting to the first Ghirahim encounter, I had no problems with the controls but man that fight is frustrating. Even after watching a youtube of the fight it still took me 5 to 6 minutes to beat the first phase. But aside from that the rest is wonderful and probably a good indication of what BotW will be like with the upgrade system and cooking system. For as much as skyward sword's overworld is maligned, BOTW's emphasis on treating the overworld like a puzzle stems from its predecessor. It's just that the "levels" in this case are designed to be approachable from any angle.
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Dec 31, 2016 20:24
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