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eonwe posted:alrighty, Im gonna read it! thanks guys Check out the anime soundtrack when you get a chance, it's pretty sick and you'd miss out on it just reading Or if you're interested you could also watch the anime, S2 is coming out soon anyway. Like mentioned above, kinetic action looks pretty good in the manga; you'd def want to see it fully animated I imagine (there's poo poo in the manga I can't wait to see animated personally)
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Dec 30, 2016 21:14
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I read the last 4 chapters of this and the first 4 books of berserk. Needless to say, gently caress humanity, life is futile, everyone is evil.
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Dec 30, 2016 22:51
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eonwe posted:alrighty, Im gonna read it! thanks guys While you're reading certain parts of it always keep this in mind: the basement delivers.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:30
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to be fair its kinda diffferent when you dont have to wait years for it
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Dec 31, 2016 00:51
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Just caught up. How the hell has this gotten even crazier? Now I'm back to itching for new releases. Argh. RatHat posted:So the titan to the left of Ymir in the flaskback is totally the one in the Ilse Notebook side-story. Guess that explains it. That reminds me. In that side-story, the titan was clearly lucid and intelligent enough to speak and communicate. Have we figured out why that is yet? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 03:43
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Okay, that was the worst translation for a chapter that suggests there's some sort of time-based hijinx.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:11
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Pollyanna posted:That reminds me. In that side-story, the titan was clearly lucid and intelligent enough to speak and communicate. Have we figured out why that is yet? Just that it mistook Ilse for Ymir and revered her enough to temporarily suppress its desire to eat for a few minutes. We see examples of some titans maintaining some semblance of their former selves when it comes to people they used to know: Connie's mum welcoming him home being the clearest.
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Dec 31, 2016 11:30
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we had time based hijinx back in chapter 1, it was weird then and it is weird now. no one know its because everything in the story is unreliably narrated also this series is hard to nail down on its political alignments, sometimes it's protofascist, sometimes its counternationalist, other times its agnostic nihilist
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Dec 31, 2016 11:33
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You'll have to work very hard to convince me any story like attack on titan that works very very hard to promote the basic humanity of each and every individual, and makes the heroes not so good and the villains not so bad...is some kind of right or left puff piece. Fascism is too black and white for that altogether. The guy who fed Faye to the dogs is probably the only legitimately mustache twirling evil person in the series so far, and it points out he loves his children and can feel remorse for his victims when given appropriate context.
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Dec 31, 2016 12:49
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Nelson Mandingo posted:The guy who fed Faye to the dogs is probably the only legitimately mustache twirling evil person in the series so far, and it points out he loves his children and can feel remorse for his victims when given appropriate context. And even him doenst not sounds like a simple villain when he explains himself (that for him, the Eldians are the real monsters and killing them without remorse is something required for their survival)
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Dec 31, 2016 13:28
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I don't think Isayama is a fascist, but it seems pretty clear to me that most of the characters in the military are hardcore militarists and/or fascists (blurry boundaries between the two...). It doesn't matter that they're motivated by the existential threat of the titans.Nelson Mandingo posted:The guy who fed Faye to the dogs is probably the only legitimately mustache twirling evil person in the series so far, and it points out he loves his children and can feel remorse for his victims when given appropriate context. Hmm, there's that guy who helped in the coup and who put some higher up in the old regime in a torture device that makes him eat his own poo poo. It's not feeding a kid to dogs but...  ... In fact, he's the head of the entire military, isn't he? Meaning the de facto supreme leader of the country. I'm sure that won't turn out badly or anything 
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Dec 31, 2016 13:38
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That would be the guy explicitly based on the IJA war criminal that Isayama admires, as I recall.
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Dec 31, 2016 13:58
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Kassad posted:I don't think Isayama is a fascist, but it seems pretty clear to me that most of the characters in the military are hardcore militarists and/or fascists (blurry boundaries between the two...). It doesn't matter that they're motivated by the existential threat of the titans. Out of curiosity, why do you think the blatant existential threat is irrelevant? All forms of government have advantages and disadvantages, and their militarist views are possibly adaptive in this specific scenario. The reason why fascism is so frowned upon is that it is incompatible with the value systems that most of us hold. That doesn't mean it's a completely ineffective method of governance. I think the context is definitely important here. It's not like anyone is going to ask the characters, "Would you support democracy if we weren't regularly being eaten alive by giants?"
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Dec 31, 2016 14:10
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Rodyle posted:That would be the guy explicitly based on the IJA war criminal that Isayama admires, as I recall. What war criminal?
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Dec 31, 2016 14:16
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Cao Ni Ma posted:What war criminal? Whoops, memory steered me wrong. I thought it was Matsui for some reason, instead it was this guy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiyama_Yoshifuru So not a convicted war criminal, just an imperialist.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:44
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There Bias Two posted:Out of curiosity, why do you think the blatant existential threat is irrelevant? All forms of government have advantages and disadvantages, and their militarist views are possibly adaptive in this specific scenario. I only meant it's irrelevant when it comes to debate if reacting to that threat by setting up an authoritarian military government is fascism. Personally, I think it is. It's just that in the story the threat is real instead of bullshit about [insert scapegoat here], but it's really easy for a state to conjure up existential threats out of thin air (I mean, in the real world, not this manga). It even happens in democracies, so an authoritarian state with heavily censored state media and so on? It's really hard to know what's propaganda and what isn't. Rodyle posted:Whoops, memory steered me wrong. I thought it was Matsui for some reason, instead it was this guy. Haha, welp. But that's not the character in the manga I was thinking about, either. I meant this guy.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:53
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MeLKoR posted:While you're reading certain parts of it always keep this in mind: the basement delivers. im pretty sure ive had the twist spoiled for me before, which is why I was hesitant to even read it since it sounded pretty dumb. im just going to go through it and see myself
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Dec 31, 2016 21:02
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Kassad posted:I only meant it's irrelevant when it comes to debate if reacting to that threat by setting up an authoritarian military government is fascism. Personally, I think it is. It's just that in the story the threat is real instead of bullshit about [insert scapegoat here], That's real shaky ground. It's not like the Nazi's would have been justified if the Jews had legitimately been dangerous.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:51
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eonwe posted:im pretty sure ive had the twist spoiled for me before, which is why I was hesitant to even read it since it sounded pretty dumb. im just going to go through it and see myself People were guessing correctly what the basement was, at least in part, going to reveal for years. Its just that right after the basement the story finds its footing again, the pacing picks up a lot, things start to click and you realize that the author really did have a plan or at the very least is a master bullshiter.
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Dec 31, 2016 23:25
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I've been calling this thing the Hillary Clinton titan since I first saw it.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:35
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Say Nothing posted:I've been calling this thing the Hillary Clinton titan since I first saw it. It actually kinda looks like your avatar.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:47
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I need to ask you guys a question. I've been reading up on what's developed in the manga, and the second season is coming up soon. I have to say, reading up on Isayama's, err, questionable politics has made me side eye a lot of what's been revealed. Notably the whole "Paradis Island" thing with the cowed together people forced to endure under puppet rulers and trapped inside by a controlling outside government" stuff. I don't really want to start a fight or debate anyone or say they're terrible for reading it, or even get into an argument about what the allegory may or may not be saying. I just wanted to ask a question. How... overt is all of this when you're actually reading it? Like, I enjoyed these characters before a lot of stuff came to light, and I'm wondering how much of this may or may not overtake the story. Again, not trying to lay any accusations here or start a debate. I just read some details that, based on what I know of the author, gave me pause and I wanna find out how prominent it may or may not be.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:19
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TFRazorsaw posted:I need to ask you guys a question. I would say it isn't that overt if you're not looking for it and in fact is obscured enough that, at least at this point, it feels like it's skimming more than diving in. That said it's hard to say where it will go and it absolutely gets into uncomfortable territory sometimes.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:22
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TFRazorsaw posted:I need to ask you guys a question. It's not terribly overt. They make it very clear that the Eldians were terrible and did a bunch of terrible stuff that lead to them being isolated on that island (and I guess that ghetto in Marlian territory as well).
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Jan 1, 2017 05:23
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Honestly, I'd say that you'd never really know the author's politics from just reading the story, at least not any more than you'd get from the first season of the anime.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:24
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Hrm. I'll give it another look then.quote:They make it very clear that the Eldians were terrible and did a bunch of terrible stuff that lead to them being isolated on that island (and I guess that ghetto in Marlian territory as well). Huh. The summary I read was that this was either hearsay or something the Marleyans invented to make themselves sound like the heroes. That's not the case?
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Jan 1, 2017 05:31
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Both are terrible and did bad things.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:33
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TFRazorsaw posted:Huh. The summary I read was that this was either hearsay or something the Marleyans invented to make themselves sound like the heroes. That's not the case? The protagonist's dad thinks it's all lies, but then it's revealed by another character that both the Eldians and Marleyans were fudging things to make themselves look better. At the very least, it isn't portrayed as some one-sided thing where the Marleyans are just evil and oppressing the poor Eldians. I mean, it could still go in any direction, but at the very least this isn't right-wing in the same vein as something like Gate or Mahouka.
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Jan 1, 2017 05:36
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Ytlaya posted:At the very least, it isn't portrayed as some one-sided thing where the Marleyans are just evil and oppressing the poor Eldians. Well, at this point it kind of is like that. The Eldians probably did lovely things way in the past, but the only reason this story is happening is that the Marleyians decided to be crazy assholes and keep punishing the Eldians for generations after the war was over (and then go and attack the wall country that was just minding its own business).
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Jan 1, 2017 05:49
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Ytlaya posted:They make it very clear that the Eldians were terrible and did a bunch of terrible stuff that lead to them being isolated on that island (and I guess that ghetto in Marlian territory as well). The manga doesn't make that clear at all.
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Jan 1, 2017 12:50
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the series is pretty agnostic what happened in the marley-eldia conflict, it's pretty clear that both sides performed ethnic cleansing whats more uncomfortable is that they outright label the original king as a race traitor for being reluctant to use WMDs, and for trying to make amends for his ancestor's crimes against humanity. like marley could be read as an allegory for post-bush america, and eldia as an allegory for post-war japan, which is pretty on the nose. this is a series with a ton of readings, many of which have nasty implications
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Jan 1, 2017 13:29
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Wouldn't it make sense for the manga to be mostly over before we start drawing conclusions about the specifics of its political stances? Right now it could still go a lot of ways.
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Jan 1, 2017 13:51
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I think the key point is when Grisha is reading the 'lost history of Eldia' and someone goes "Wow you can translate that all" and he's like "Well barely... but what else could it say?" Granted, King Fritz appears to be far more than a 'Race Traitor' because he picked up his people and hosed off and more because His intent was to let all of his people die and deny them any chance to fight back if they were attacked In short, everyone in the story are assholes who hate everyone else.
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Jan 1, 2017 14:10
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AoT is all about everyone being a bad person somehow, so don't expect black-and-white thinking.
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Jan 1, 2017 15:19
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Schwarzwald posted:The manga doesn't make that clear at all. Onmi posted:I think the key point is when Grisha is reading the 'lost history of Eldia' and This, but also:  It didn't question that directly, but it's willing to leave doubt. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 15:34
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I acknowledge that the series should be allowed to finish, but with Isayama's political views being known to be what they are and this backstory having a not insignificant resemblance to Japanese nationalists' view of the past, I felt it was worthwhile to at least ask.
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Jan 1, 2017 15:57
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TFRazorsaw posted:I acknowledge that the series should be allowed to finish, but with Isayama's political views being known to be what they are and this backstory having a not insignificant resemblance to Japanese nationalists' view of the past, I felt it was worthwhile to at least ask. If Attack on Titan convinces you to become a fascist or whatever you probably didn't have a very strong political point of view in the first place. Read/watch it if you like it, but why would you base your enjoyment of a thing on its creator's politics?
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Jan 1, 2017 16:16
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TFRazorsaw posted:I acknowledge that the series should be allowed to finish, but with Isayama's political views being known to be what they are and this backstory having a not insignificant resemblance to Japanese nationalists' view of the past, I felt it was worthwhile to at least ask. How do you feel about Wagner's music?
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Jan 1, 2017 16:34
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"The most wonderful thing in the world is freedom from oppression." god this fascism
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Jan 1, 2017 16:46
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Sarcophallus posted:If Attack on Titan convinces you to become a fascist or whatever you probably didn't have a very strong political point of view in the first place. ... Well we sure took a hop skip and a jump away from what I was getting at. I wanted to see if this series was outside of my comfort zone. That's all.
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Jan 1, 2017 16:48
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