|
I believe you will find arch is cool and good
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
graph posted:wait whats x11s replacement? or am i reading this wrong wayland hence the Norse mythology discussion earlier
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 04:05
|
|
|
pseudorandom name posted:wayland yeah i read this wrong, as like a gfx card or some poo poo but cool yeah ill check it out (lotta folks rely on x11 at work)
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 04:17
|
|
|
graph posted:wait whats x11s replacement? or am i reading this wrong wayland it's more similar to the window server on macOS, the most advanced operating system in the world, than it is to X-Windows of course it's just a protocol spec rather than as an implementation because Open Source developers just can't deal with having one right thing, they absolutely must have many somewhat-incompatible things to feel like they're really accomplishing something that means people talk about Wayland when they really mean Weston, which is the reference implementation of Wayland that's pretty much tied to Linux because it relies on a whole bunch of facilities that aren't implemented elsewhere and of course all this means a new shell too that doesn't have a lot of the features that people are used to, and there are apps that assume that the toolkit they're using runs on top of X-Windows and need porting and of course the coup de grace is that the developers stayed away from specifying much about the higher-level frameworks so it doesn't solve the worst problem with X-Windows, which is that every application uses its own artisanal bespoke widget set rather than settling on a single consistent standard like even what Luigi Thirty has shown me about Amiga application development still looks saner than Linux application development, and Wayland doesn't do anything to fix this at all
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
I mean what you posted is almost perfectly wrong but ok cool story my dude
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
if os x only has good widget toolkit how come all the apple apps all look stupidly different and are just webviews in a wrapper anyway
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 05:54
|
|
|
graph posted:wait whats x11s replacement? or am i reading this wrong
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 08:38
|
|
|
Captain Foo posted:since this is an nbsd post i will just assume that wayland is actually good
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 09:55
|
|
|
Truga posted:lmao look at these people voluntarily wasting perfectly good screen real estate. in fedora 25 with wayland i had to choose "Norwegian Nynorsk" keyboard to get a normal norwegian keyboard layout, if I chose the normal bokmål one it only existed as a "Typing booster" whatever the hell that is (i guess gnome's ime engine or something?) why are the keyboard options in wayland different? libinput-related?
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 09:59
|
|
|
my 2017 LOTD status: had to disable wayland for my development vmware box to have dynamic resolution support I thought 4GB would be enough ram but it's not occasionally things like "npm install" or "using Slack" will crush the CPU for a couple minutes, despite the VM being set to 4 cores and on a decent i5
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 10:40
|
|
|
still better than windows as a dev environment though lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 10:41
|
|
|
Tankakern posted:why are the keyboard options in wayland different? libinput-related? wayland uses libxkbcommon. this is their site in 2017: https://xkbcommon.org/, and have fun with their "documentation". as far as i can tell, there is currently no way to change the keyboard model in a wayland desktop environment like gnome? at least ibus has been good for a while now and that makes layout switching super easy. to make matters worse, a lot of x apps have in recent years apparently decided to ignore many xkb or xmodxmap settings (yes, i tried xmodmap too, after failing with xkb). some backstory, i use a chomebook as a work laptop (the 3:2 2560x1700 monitor is worth having only 64gb ssd imo, I have my loud music and other big files on the SD card anyway), so i have to use the chomebook keyboard model to get keys like pgup/dn. this isn't anything new, all my previous laptops used Fn+keys for most all of these, however these were "hardware" keys using the Fn key so i could just use the default generic 101 key keyboard and everything worked fine on a chomebook, i remap these keys to right alt+arrows, 1) because that is where that fn key used to be on my previous keyboard, and 2) it's also the default chomebook kb model behaviour in default xkb files, so why not just do this right? well, no. firefox and chome ignore xkb almost entirely. qt and gtk apps appear to be aware of the xkb options, as all shortcuts work as expected. however, none of the keyboard model (home/end/pgup/dn etc combinations) functions work. the only windows where the entirety of keyboard works as expected are gnome-terminal and xterm. meanwhile, konsole is the only app that appears to ignore xkb completely, even my ctrl-winkey swap doesn't work (winkey on chomebook is where capslock used to be), and that option works everywhere else. there's that very weird exception too: qt creator (a very good c++ ide btw) has a fakevim mode, that makes its editor window behave like vim. *all* the keys and combinations work correctly with that. why? I have absolutely zero idea. they don't work with the normal behaviour text editor, nor the rest of the ide components poo poo's completely inconsistent. i'd have probably sold the laptop by now if qt creator and terminal wasn't literally 99% of my use. fake edit: ahmeni posted:still better than windows as a dev environment though lol always
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 11:30
|
|
|
Truga posted:wayland uses libxkbcommon. this is their site in 2017: https://xkbcommon.org/, and have fun with their "documentation". Woah a whole domain, I'd have expected a project like that to have a default sourceforge page
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
infrastructure programmers tend to have a sense of aesthetics that is unusual to say the least so it's probably for the best that they used unstyled html bootstrap or some sort of static page compiler are also acceptable options.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
wayland is generally very nice, but the one thing that really bugs me is that even if you just want a basic, blank window to draw stuff in you still need qt or gtk to handle the decorations, otherwise you just get an immobile borderless rectangle. kde has a wayland extension that lets you ask for a window with the default system decorations, but that doesn't help on everything else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I mean what you posted is almost perfectly wrong but ok cool story my dude specificity is the soul of effective burns Suspicious Dish posted:if os x only has good widget toolkit how come all the apple apps all look stupidly different and are just webviews in a wrapper anyway stupidly different is mostly the remaining design holdovers from when jobs was alive. he really liked an address book app that looked like a physical spiral bound address book, and so forth. webviews in wrappers are not as common as you say, seem to generally be cases where they got lazy about implementing it the right way, and usually stick out because they suck. the Mac App Store is a good example of this phenomenon eschaton was right: linux on the desktop is doomed as long as the open sores community squabbles so much over competing specs and/or implementations of things that should be written once and written well in order to have a sane environment for people to write applications for.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
post default html and the most linux web pages u got
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 21:17
|
|
|
ahmeni posted:still better than windows as a dev environment though lol lmao. don't worry buddy. some day you'll be able to afford windows.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
Truga posted:wayland uses libxkbcommon. this is their site in 2017: https://xkbcommon.org/, and have fun with their "documentation". as far as i can tell, there is currently no way to change the keyboard model in a wayland desktop environment like gnome? at least ibus has been good for a while now and that makes layout switching super easy. lol why the gently caress would you do this to yourself??
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX"
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 22:06
|
|
|
it was a mistake that Linux did a bad job of copying
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
it's a cool, dead 90s os
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
i have janitored various unices and unixen and they are fine
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
my opionion is:
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
atomicthumbs posted:What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX" the most advanced operating system in the world has periodically been certified to use this trademark
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
atomicthumbs posted:What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX" eunuchs 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
eschaton posted:the most advanced operating system in the world has periodically been certified to use this trademark lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
atomicthumbs posted:What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX" if linux is inspired by unix then unix must be pretty cool for real though, when I used a solaris and found that /proc didn't have any useful information I just gave up I once promised myself that I would give solaris a real shot but I got no time for that trash now
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 01:52
|
|
|
i like the idea of a designed system where all the tools you need to use it are part of it
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
friend, have you tried netbsd
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 02:40
|
|
|
Fedora 23 ❤️ Parallels, apparently 24 too but Fedora wants to update to 25 and Parallels is all ☹️ I mean I use CentOS 7 at work which I just had to downgrade from 7.3 to 7.2 because the special snowflake builds don't work in production.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
el dorito posted:if linux is inspired by unix then unix must be pretty cool Linux is Unix System V fanfic BSD is the real deal, and only getting better as it absorbs Mach concepts
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
el dorito posted:if linux is inspired by unix then unix must be pretty cool solaris was really good and i miss it the /proc was indeed completely loving useless though. just enough bsd crap for backwards compatibility
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
atomicthumbs posted:What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX" freebsd is a mess
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
my stepdads beer posted:freebsd is a mess why
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 06:05
|
|
|
MrMoo posted:Fedora 23 ❤️ Parallels, apparently 24 too but Fedora wants to update to 25 and Parallels is all ☹️ Parallels is trash, use vmware
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 08:44
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:if os x only has good widget toolkit how come all the apple apps all look stupidly different and are just webviews in a wrapper anyway because the "just use the os's native widgets instead of rolling your own, you fucks" war was lost some time in the 90s.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 12:42
|
|
|
atomicthumbs posted:What's the Linux thread's opinion of "UNIX" 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
eschaton posted:of course it's just a protocol spec rather than as an implementation because Open Source developers just can't deal with having one right thing, they absolutely must have many somewhat-incompatible things to feel like they're really accomplishing something weirdly i actually agree with you it took twenty years to hash out the set of standards and conventions, specified and unspecified, that allow X11 applications to interoperate properly. for a long, long time simple stuff like window minimization, window alerts, modal dialogues, system notification areas etc were broken as gently caress now wayland wants to replace the window server protocol and window manager model without addressing any of the decades of miscellaneous crap it took us to get here in the first place
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 18:14
|
|
