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Boiled Water posted:http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/kaby-lake-pentium-processors-get-hyper-threading.html Phtt big deal, my Pentium 4 had that 13 years ago 
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Jan 10, 2017 18:26
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mewse posted:This is bullshit. Fully agreed. Intel sees the writing on the wall of a shrinking consumer market, and is going to start acting like Oracle trying to squeeze every last cent out of business customers dependent on x86 servers. ECC compatibility is also gone on i3s, so that lightweight x86 server now costs a good bit more than it did last year. Good news is ARM options are coming up quickly to fill this gap. With dedicated hardware for encryption and huge i/o bandwidth, they'll gladly fill the CPU-light edge server role.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:34
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Twerk from Home posted:Good news is ARM options are coming up quickly to fill this gap. With dedicated hardware for encryption and huge i/o bandwidth, they'll gladly fill the CPU-light edge server role. Which will be fine once either Plex starts supporting hardware encoding or the ARM chips get hefty enough to do so themselves. Or AMD has a server-light chip in their Ryzen lineup...
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Jan 10, 2017 18:48
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Twerk from Home posted:Fully agreed. Intel sees the writing on the wall of a shrinking consumer market, and is going to start acting like Oracle trying to squeeze every last cent out of business customers dependent on x86 servers. ECC compatibility is also gone on i3s, so that lightweight x86 server now costs a good bit more than it did last year. Intel consumer market revenue was up about 6% over last year, sooo I don't think it's shrinking too badly.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:57
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Twerk from Home posted:
Haven't they been "coming up quickly" but never actually getting here for like, 5+ years now though?
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Jan 10, 2017 19:37
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fishmech posted:Haven't they been "coming up quickly" but never actually getting here for like, 5+ years now though? You can actually buy them now, and it might not even be a terrible decision: https://www.servethehome.com/exclusive-first-cavium-thunderx-dual-48-core-96-core-total-arm-benchmarks/ Also you've got some hosting providers like Scaleway experimenting with even cheaper ARM options that are "good enough" for some lightweight work and absurdly cheap. Edit: Software has matured by now and those Cavium boxes are way faster with recent versions of OpenSSL and gcc: https://www.servethehome.com/cavium-thunderx-micro-benchmarks-enterprise-arm-developers-need-machines/ Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 20:06
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We tried to buy some of the gigabyte calvium thunderx servers last year to evaluate and they were already EOL'd and unsupported. No luck finding a setup elsewhere either (although didn't look too hard). Hoping ARM servers do show up and are easy to get but still waiting..
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Jan 10, 2017 20:12
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priznat posted:We tried to buy some of the gigabyte calvium thunderx servers last year to evaluate and they were already EOL'd and unsupported. No luck finding a setup elsewhere either (although didn't look too hard). Didn't realize that and I certainly haven't evaluated them in person, that's pretty terrible.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:19
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Nobody's going to miss ECC ram in the Pentiums, come on. The ARM threat is a bit doubtful as well to be honest. Like if you have low CPU needs, just get a small slice from a cloud provider, where they'll run Xeons anyway. However I think video editing is more relevant now than ever. Anyone who doesn't just upload unedited footage directly from their phone needs to at least cut the footage up and encode it in whatever format for YouTube. It's not an insignificant market, even channels with ranking about 10k have like half a million subscribers so there have to be tons of people.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:29
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Twerk from Home posted:Didn't realize that and I certainly haven't evaluated them in person, that's pretty terrible. They did manage to find one for us but it would have been like buying it from a sketchy ebay vendor with no returns and no support and it would have been pretty drat expensive ($14k for the 96 core one which is all they could source). Since there were a lot of unknowns we said no thanks. From what we heard from customers is that no one was buying those. But it's weird they try to charge so much for them. I think the Xeon D and then the FPGA elements intel can start putting in will help protect them from the arm SoCs in the server space outside of some folks who just build their own architectures like google or amazon or alibaba. But they'll probably be mostly intel anyway. I'm excited about being able to try out Ryzen for work risk free when they start shipping at least! Break up the monotony of all Intel stuff.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:30
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Seems like ARM server could be really badass if someone put down the $$$ to make a chip on a newer process. It seems like the current ARM server stuff is all on older fab tech probably for cost reasons and therefor is going to have a hell of a time trying to compete directly with Intel's latest on performance/watt and such.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:35
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mobby_6kl posted:Nobody's going to miss ECC ram in the Pentiums, come on. Home NAS builders / users will. There were plenty of small commercial NAS products using i3s or Pentiums as their CPUs with ECC RAM. I guess those are going to get pushed to Atom-based CPUs, because there's sure not room for an E3 Xeon in the SOHO Synology / QNAP lines.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:39
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mobby_6kl posted:Nobody's going to miss ECC ram in the Pentiums, come on. I was looking at them for my home storage solution
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Jan 10, 2017 20:52
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Twerk from Home posted:Home NAS builders / users will. There were plenty of small commercial NAS products using i3s or Pentiums as their CPUs with ECC RAM.  zen can't come fast enough Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 21:05
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priznat posted:They did manage to find one for us but it would have been like buying it from a sketchy ebay vendor with no returns and no support and it would have been pretty drat expensive ($14k for the 96 core one which is all they could source). Since there were a lot of unknowns we said no thanks. 14k seems like a lot, although depending on what storage was included not necessarily an outrageous ripoff. A PowerEdge R730xd with dual E5-2660v4s, 256 gigs of ram, and comparable networking (40gig + 10gig) to the huge pile of ports on that Gigabyte board is a bit under 10k. (Also jesus the OCD for ECC protection on linux ISOs at home is real) Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 21:07
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PerrineClostermann posted:I was looking at them for my home storage solution Select Haswell home server models are fairly cheap now as they approach EOL. I bought a few new Dell Poweredge T20s with Xeon e3-1225v3 (quad 3.2 Ghz with ECC) for 200€ each. They idle at at 12-15W and have no problem transcoding 4k content. Lenovo TS140 are similar. eames fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 21:09
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eames posted:Select Haswell home server models are fairly cheap now as they approach EOL. I bought a few new Dell Poweredge T20s with Xeon e3-1225v3 (quad 3.2 Ghz with ECC) for 200€ each. They idle at at 15W and have no problem transcoding 4k content. Lenovo TS140 are similar.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:11
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:at that point you might as well go with a build-your-own decommissioned sandy bridge xeon firesale special for 50 more euros Why spend more to downgrade from Haswell to Sandy Bridge? The T20s/TS140's are solid little machines as long as you don't intend to try stuffing a half-dozen drives in there (or have a plan for an external drive rack).
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Jan 10, 2017 21:57
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DrDork posted:Why spend more to downgrade from Haswell to Sandy Bridge? The T20s/TS140's are solid little machines as long as you don't intend to try stuffing a half-dozen drives in there 
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Jan 10, 2017 22:01
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I am totally not regretting my Haswell i3-4130 purchase for a flat $100 years ago.
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Jan 10, 2017 23:45
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necrobobsledder posted:I am totally not regretting my Haswell i3-4130 purchase for a flat $100 years ago. I think I got the Pentium G3258 for $56 or something a few years back to put in my HTPC. Still a good chip for what I use it for. Though for a NAS, isn't 6 drives considered still on the Small side? I wish I had more than 4 for sure.
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Jan 11, 2017 00:32
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EdEddnEddy posted:Though for a NAS, isn't 6 drives considered still on the Small side? I wish I had more than 4 for sure. Depends who you ask. I'd hazard to say that the majority of "normal people" who throw one together use 5 or less--hence the popularity of 2/4/5 drive pre-built NAS boxes. The population that's crazy enough to want/need 12+ disk arrays is probably quite small, but obviously vocal. So if you wander over to a NAS forum, yeah, <6 is going to be considered "small," but if you tell Average Joe you've got a 6 drive NAS he's going to wonder why the hell you'd ever need that much space.
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Jan 11, 2017 01:15
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:at that point you might as well go with a build-your-own decommissioned sandy bridge xeon firesale special for 50 more euros The T20 is silent and idles at 30W. 1RU Sandy Bridge-E servers are loud, and IDK but I'd bet they use substantially more idling - I'm sure they do under load.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:12
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How much of problem is the ECC thing going to be for the home server crowd - will the chipsets be knackered to stop it happening? Recently it's been possible to run i5/i7 CPUs on ECC systems under certain circumstances when you wouldn't have expected to. I've been able to boot and run win 2012r2 in an HP ML10v2 with ECC RAM and an i5-4570.
Mr Chips fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 10:27
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Considering the tiny gains in performance other than power efficiency I doubt it'll make a big impact. Just buy last gens processor and get on with it.
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Jan 11, 2017 11:03
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https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/some-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-cpus-are-open-to-a-usb-debug-exploit/
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Jan 14, 2017 09:08
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/some-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-cpus-are-open-to-a-usb-debug-exploit/ Hey now it only effects U series processors...so basically all laptops that aren't quad core gaming/workstation laptops. Great.
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Jan 14, 2017 09:24
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i have to believe this poo poo is on purpose just to shift the market towards AMD because goddamn
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Jan 14, 2017 09:28
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The BIOS manufacturer has to have left JTAG and USB JTAG/DMI on for this to work. We don't know who has, and there's no way to tell without a JTAG debugger on you. (is my understanding)
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Jan 14, 2017 10:05
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/some-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-cpus-are-open-to-a-usb-debug-exploit/ Read: People with physical access to your laptop can do whatever they want with it. 
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Jan 14, 2017 12:58
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Double Punctuation posted:Read: People with physical access to your laptop can do whatever they want with it. But now without the hassle of having to deal with screws and finding the connectors on the motherboard .
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Jan 14, 2017 13:30
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Double Punctuation posted:Read: People with physical access to your laptop can do whatever they want with it. This is why I leave my laptop unlocked with my financial information on screen whenever I leave it on the table at a coffee shop. Someone could get physical access so why bother locking it down? The problem, from my perspective, is that this opens up a lot more surreptitious physical attacks, where now you can get JTAG access from momentary physical access without disturbing the look of the device, which was not possible before.
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Jan 14, 2017 16:42
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ohgodwhat posted:This is why I leave my laptop unlocked with my financial information on screen whenever I leave it on the table at a coffee shop. Someone could get physical access so why bother locking it down? It's only a problem when it gets used by people outside of the NSA. Intel is looking out for you in the long run. Would you rather have a secure PC or another 9/11?
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Jan 14, 2017 16:56
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Looks like it can only gently caress with the BIOS. I suppose you have to get really creative about it. I wanted to post about how it means nothing, given the BIOS loads the boot files and as soon the OS kernel is running, it'd be out of the picture... But then I remembered the BIOS updating stuff in my UEFI BIOS can actually use the network connection to download it from the Internet.
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Jan 14, 2017 16:56
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ohgodwhat posted:
You mean the sort of physical attacks that you could do with most laptops with say, Thunderbolt, or Firewire, or ExpressCard, and I think maybe PCMCIA? That is, attacks that let you extract a bunch of information from the running system and allow for the possibility of injecting some manner of malicious executable code.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:10
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Yeah? Those are bad too? Thanks fishmech.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:28
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ohgodwhat posted:Yeah? Those are bad too? Thanks fishmech. The point is there's a shitload of these things already, and those methods all are a lot more practical too. And those are just ones that any random ook with a pre-built device could shove in. Feel free to poo poo yourself and weld a metal bar over your laptop USB ports if you want, I guess.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:36
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"Boy howdy, you think that's bad? But other things are bad too so we might as well do nothing."
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Jan 14, 2017 17:48
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ohgodwhat posted:"Boy howdy, you think that's bad? But other things are bad too so we might as well do nothing." But there is nothing to do? Like there's not actually a problem with this sort of debugging being possible through the USB port.
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Jan 14, 2017 17:54
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Not actually a problem:fishmech posted:That is, attacks that let you extract a bunch of information from the running system and allow for the possibility of injecting some manner of malicious executable code. How many Skylake laptops have PCMCIA? How many have USB? edit: To be clear since the point tends to fly over your head, if this wasn't possible with USB, this attack vector likely would not exist for many new laptops. That previous standards were also bad isn't exactly a defense. Nor would it be inconceivable for manufacturers to take a bit more care with the design to make such functionality available, but not turned on by default. Will this affect a huge number of people? Probably not, but there's really no excuse for continuing to make the same bad decisions. ohgodwhat fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 17:58
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