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Raenir Salazar posted:What was the Dango event? It has pages, hearts and chimera claws, all of which are annoying to farm so this event owns
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Jan 13, 2017 16:42
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It was also bar none the worst event in existence back when it originally ran so unless they really retuned it it's gonna be asinine.
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Jan 13, 2017 16:46
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Ytlaya posted:By the way, has anyone ever determined how Arts Performance CEs compare with NP Generation+ ones? Since Arts Performance apparently also gives a bonus to the NP gain from Arts cards, I imagine that it is effectively similar to a certain % bonus to NP Generation (though differing somewhat due to NP Generation+ CEs also affecting the NP generated by Quick cards, though the vast majority of NP gain comes from Arts cards anyways). Same with other kinds of buffs, so it's best if you combine buffs of different types. Similarly, this means it's more effective to put CEs that boost something different from the servant's skills and NP. Stargen is an exception though. Those are all additive. Formulas: Damage NP gen Stargen BlitzBlast posted:It was also bar none the worst event in existence back when it originally ran so unless they really retuned it it's gonna be asinine. Kyte fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 17:31
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There were two events back when the Dango one hit and Nero was not much better since this game was still pretty lovely in general back when that hit.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:58
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HiveCommander posted:It has pages, hearts and chimera claws, all of which are annoying to farm so this event owns Huh? I don't see any pages or claws on the wiki page for the dango event.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:28
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They're retuning it to have actual mats this time
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Jan 13, 2017 18:46
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Huh, Elizabeth Bathory actually holds up well at level 90. Her attack is a bit better than Enkidu's, and her HP's a bit worse. Skills are pretty much a wash either way, though her Charisma skill that boosts other female Servants is pretty nice.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:54
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Huh, Elizabeth Bathory actually holds up well at level 90. Her attack is a bit better than Enkidu's, and her HP's a bit worse. Skills are pretty much a wash either way, though her Charisma skill that boosts other female Servants is pretty nice. Pretty much any 4* seems to hold up well stat-wise at level 90 vs level 90 5* servants. They might have a grand total of 1000 or so fewer stat points, but it's not enough to make a big difference.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:21
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Lancer is just a weirdly balanced class. Scathach is undisputed top dog, but she's not exactly blowing the world away unless the enemy falls into her niche. Meanwhile basically every other gold Lancer is just kinda eh, to the point that most people agree that the second best Lancer is regular old 3* Cu.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:25
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BlitzBlast posted:Lancer is just a weirdly balanced class. Scathach is undisputed top dog, but she's not exactly blowing the world away unless the enemy falls into her niche. Meanwhile basically every other gold Lancer is just kinda eh, to the point that most people agree that the second best Lancer is regular old 3* Cu. Lancer Kiyotan begs to differ
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Jan 14, 2017 00:04
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Yeah Kiyohime is like one of the best in my view. e: Argh, 50% down skill mat quests; it's like, I kinda don't want to do them because I feel like I've done a lot of grinding and I need oh so much QP; but at 20 AP for the Expert I feel is actually a fair AP cost for the drop ratio. Edit 2: WOW. Illya with buffs from Waver and Merlin crit'ed for more than her NP... 136,000 vs 146,000... Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 00:21
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Raenir Salazar posted:Edit 2: WOW. Illya with buffs from Waver and Merlin crit'ed for more than her NP... 136,000 vs 146,000... Crits can definitely do significantly more damage than even single target NPs under the right circumstances/buffs.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:16
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Ytlaya posted:Crits can definitely do significantly more damage than even single target NPs under the right circumstances/buffs. The circumstance in this case is Ilya being dogshit btw
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Jan 14, 2017 01:26
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Xuangzang is better than Ilya if you need a caster that does damage and she's also in the perm gacha
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Jan 14, 2017 01:29
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Freak Futanari posted:Lancer Kiyotan begs to differ Lancer Kiyohime doesn't have a nigh-guaranteed NP5 and a cohesive skillset. v  v
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Jan 14, 2017 01:41
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Captain Baal posted:Xuangzang is better than Ilya if you need a caster that does damage and she's also in the perm gacha I don't have Xuangzang and I don't have the money to whale for her; also I generally like Illya's overall design better than miss grownup no pants.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:47
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BlitzBlast posted:Lancer Kiyohime doesn't have a nigh-guaranteed NP5 and a cohesive skillset. v Her skillset is pretty cohesive actually. Charge NP, pop buster boost and defense down, use enemy crit down to ensure that they dont get TOO much mileage out of the attack boost that comes tacked onto the def down (if they survive), nuke'em
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Jan 14, 2017 01:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't have Xuangzang and I don't have the money to whale for her; also I generally like Illya's overall design better than miss grownup no pants. I ain't saying whale for her just who the actual damage caster is because Ilya's not particularly great. Mind you the caster class gods are comprised of Waver and Merlin so eh.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:59
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Freak Futanari posted:Her skillset is pretty cohesive actually. Charge NP, pop buster boost and defense down, use enemy crit down to ensure that they dont get TOO much mileage out of the attack boost that comes tacked onto the def down (if they survive), nuke'em Yeah, cohesive wasn't the best word. Maybe it would be better to say that there's just nothing special about it? Her skillset is literally her Berserker skillset, only it trades her defense buff (which wasn't very helpful but at least a positive) for a crit rate down (the only debuff that has still yet to actually gain a use). The most you can say about her is that she gets one turn of burst damage, and that's it. Karna, Artoria Lancer, and Artoria Lancer Alter have similar issues: they drop a boosted NP and they're out. Meanwhile Cu's skills elevate him to nigh-immortality. Protection from Arrows gives three free dodges, and right after they expire he can use Battle Continuation to get enough leeway for Protection from Arrows to cooldown so he can throw it up again. Disengage can be used as needed to get rid of harmful debuffs or to just recover some HP after a Battle Continuation so he has just a little more breathing room to reach the next Protection from Arrows. And across all of this he's building up NP so he can keep dropping Gae Bolg, which in the long run adds up to a ton of damage. NP5 is no joke. I think it was the Ibaraki event that made everyone realize that Cu was actually really good? I know a lot of people used him to great effect against Goetia too. Cu shines whenever the enemy is an order of magnitude stronger than you.
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Jan 14, 2017 02:53
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BlitzBlast posted:Yeah, cohesive wasn't the best word. Maybe it would be better to say that there's just nothing special about it? Her skillset is literally her Berserker skillset, only it trades her defense buff (which wasn't very helpful but at least a positive) for a crit rate down (the only debuff that has still yet to actually gain a use). The most you can say about her is that she gets one turn of burst damage, and that's it. Karna, Artoria Lancer, and Artoria Lancer Alter have similar issues: they drop a boosted NP and they're out. Her buster buff is actually three turns as a lancer, which is why she's seen as very good as far as gameplay. Also there's Vlad who is a very good gold lancer. Cu is broken as gently caress at survivability and I don't think anyone will argue that with you but saying there aren't any other good gold lancers just isn't true.
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Jan 14, 2017 03:13
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As a whole, I don't think 5 star Lancers are any weaker than the average 5 star of any other class. It's just that 3 star Cu is an outlier of power. Which isn't a bad thing. There should be a few 3 and 4 stars in the game that are top tier to help out the people that roll 1000 gems without ever seeing a 5 star.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:00
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I can honestly see them nerfing the poo poo out of Protection from Arrows/Wind. They did it with Guts when Nero was super broken a year ago
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Jan 14, 2017 04:04
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Trihugger posted:As a whole, I don't think 5 star Lancers are any weaker than the average 5 star of any other class. It's just that 3 star Cu is an outlier of power. Yeah, get NP, buff yourself up to eleven and let go is basically half the cast. It's also Scathachs gimmick, she just does it so well that nobody really notices
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Jan 14, 2017 04:11
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Wuxi posted:I can honestly see them nerfing the poo poo out of Protection from Arrows/Wind. They did it with Guts when Nero was super broken a year ago Oh is that why Nero didn't come back alive 5 times in a row when I tried her during Ibaraki?  e: Also I hope they don't; I feel like he's an golden example of how free to play in FGO is kinda semi viable.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:12
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Overlord K posted:Her buster buff is actually three turns as a lancer, which is why she's seen as very good as far as gameplay. Also there's Vlad who is a very good gold lancer. But unless you're running a team where you can charge up her NP fast enough to make use of it at least twice, her Buster buff is only going to be really be useful for just one turn. The thing with the Lancer class is that you have to look at it in the context of the other Knight classes. Saber and Archer both have a healthy mix of high power units, and while there may be characters you can consider the best there usually isn't a far and away best option. Instead, there are just best options for team comps: Archer Artoria and Saber Lancelot shine on Arts teams, Okita and EMIYA greatly benefit from crit teams, Musashi and Ishtar can ramp up significantly in damage in a Buster team, etc. And then there's Lancer, which suffers a ton from being the Quick class. A lot of Lancers have a QQABB deck, which just straight up isn't very good. Making matters worse, the majority of the gold Lancers are a motley mess of meh: Karna and the Artoria Lancers are built almost solely around dropping their NP once, Brynhildr and Li are based around extremely situational niches, Medusa Lily and Fionn are a mess of random skills, and Enkidu and Swimsuit Tamamo are just kinda mediocre. The stand-outs are Scathach, Swimsuit Kiyohime, and Extra Vlad, and of those three Scathach is far and away the best because 1) "gently caress Divine/Undead Archers" is a very good niche and 2) her skills are just really great in general. Meanwhile the other two are just kinda there by virtue of their single target Buster NPs. Outside of that they don't do that great damage; I have tried use Extra Vlad for the longest time and man, he just can not output the same numbers other "high tier" Sabers and Archers can. Like, let's get this straight here: as much as I have praised him, Cu's honestly not that amazing. Saber Gilles and Robin Hood could be considered his counterparts in the "excels at one gimmick" camp, but nobody is praising them to high heavens for it because there are many other, better Sabers/Archers. But when you stack Cu up against the majority of Gold lancers, he really does come out on top against a lot of them. Which is just kinda sad.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:20
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On the other hand, it kinda works lore wise. 
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Jan 14, 2017 04:23
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Artoria can drop 2 NPs in a row with Waver so she can at least be a 2 hit wonder. Still a Buster aoe NP.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:27
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From reddit but: Are you loving kidding me, I could've had five of the blooding things Limit Broken by now? 
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Jan 14, 2017 05:18
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Did we really just mention Saber loving Gilles in the same sentence as Cu? Because I'm pretty sure I ran the numbers on him and unless I made a grave mistake he's in the running for worst 3*. Definitely worst 3* Saber. I agree though, there are 3* on the same level as Cu, you just don't notice them as much, since they have 4/5* counterparts that do the same job at least as good with better stats (Euryale is a decent example I think) In theory I like QQBBA - it works on Okita (and she's my favourite servant from a gameplay perspective) and I think Gil would be flatout better with QQBBA. But star/np generation is just so bad on all these Lancers, so they're basically relegated to getting a buster chain off once every fight. Raenir Salazar posted:Oh is that why Nero didn't come back alive 5 times in a row when I tried her during Ibaraki? Yeah, before enemies would just stop attacking after they killed someone with Guts, so you got 5 turns out of it. Wuxi fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 05:28
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Hearts! And talons so I can finish Scathach off! Perfect. I also fortunately still have some of the CEs from the first event.
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Jan 14, 2017 05:31
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Wuxi posted:Did we really just mention Saber loving Gilles in the same sentence as Cu? Because I'm pretty sure I ran the numbers on him and unless I made a grave mistake he's in the running for worst 3*. The only other 3* Saber I could remember offhand was Fergus, and as far as I know he doesn't have a "deals lots of damage over the long term" gimmick like Robin and Cu do. Saber Gilles doesn't really either, but at least his effectively permanent Buster buff comes close. v vAlthough I would actually say you made a mistake in your math: as far as I know, a Buster performance boost is flat out better than a plain attack buff. EDIT: Using the calculator a guy made a while back, Fergus' damage off a single third card Buster with Bravery level 10 up is 10221. His Buster Brave Chain would do 42888 before the Extra attack. Meanwhile Gilles' damage off a single third card Buster is 11951 with Prelati's Encouragement level 10 up. With a NP5 Saint War Order, that damage jumps to 23093 damage. His best case (NP - B - B) would do 44391 damage before the Extra. So Gilles flat out beats Fergus in possible damage, but at the same time Fergus is more likely to get Busters, doesn't need to get Saints War Order up, and has the possibility of a BBC. So I would put them at about even at max, tip the scales to Fergus for most situations, and put Gilles in the lead for long term battles since that permanent +52% Buster really does add up. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 05:43
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BlitzBlast posted:EDIT: Using the calculator a guy made a while back, Fergus' damage off a single third card Buster is 15756. Buster Brave Chain with a level 10 Bravery up is 42888 before the Extra attack. Is that BBB or NPBB for Fergus? And the extra attack is kinda important, since Buster/Arts/Quick brave chains do so much more damage on their extra I mean, Gilles could possibly go BAB after using his NP a round before, but still BlitzBlast posted:So I would put them at about even at max, tip the scales to Fergus for most situations, and put Gilles in the lead for long term battles since that permanent +52% Buster really does add up. Yeah, that Buster up wasn't permanent when I looked at the numbers. He still only has 2 Busters though (why the gently caress would you only give him two busters?) Wuxi fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 06:13
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Just a BBB since I had no idea how to properly calculate NP damage on that calculator. Same for Extra attacks. Gilles has two Busters because back I think the design philosophy back then was "the Servant should be able to Brave Chain with their NP". ...Unless you're a Caster (or EMIYA), in which case lol have fun with your Arts Chains.
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Jan 14, 2017 06:30
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Just realized Extella releases next week. Have there been any impressions of the Japanese release? Edit: The PlayStation blog has a post on it, and they mention Edison as an example of how Fate designs get weird, haha. PunkBoy fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 20:19
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PunkBoy posted:Just realized Extella releases next week. Have there been any impressions of the Japanese release? I'm buying a Vita for it.
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Jan 14, 2017 20:27
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General impressions are that as a DW game it's pretty eh (story mode forces you into playing only a small fraction of the cast, camera is bad, the NP mechanic is one of those "build a super move across the stage that can basically only be used to one shot the boss" things, Vita version is very noticeably worse than PS4, etc) and as a VN it's also sorta eh because despite having three heroines only Nero's "route" was really fully written. So if you like Nero you're going to like this game, but if you don't then it might be a little tedious. Oh and before you ask, Artoria doesn't do a drat thing in the main plot. She only shows up in some of the sidechapters, she's like the epitome of "Also Starring Dante From Devil May Cry!". EDIT: But the story is Nasu cashing in all the sci-fi aspects of the Extraverse though, so if you're up for a wild ride then Extella may be what you want. You, uh, might be a little confused if you're not familiar with the events of Extra and CCC though. Like "why is Gilgamesh helping me?" confused. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 21:25
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Hm, I may wait then. The limited cast in story mode is lame.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:38
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You can unlock substories that are basically individual character stories as well.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:45
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I have a Vita and basically only have Danganronpa 2 and Persona 4 so Extella should just about bring me game value to equal or exceed what I paid for the Vita.
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Jan 15, 2017 00:21
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I sorta want to buy Extella day one, but at the same time i learned two lessons from FFXV: Even the safest bet can turn out to be a lovely game, and every game goes on sale within a loving month on PSN anyway
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Jan 15, 2017 00:45
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