TrustmeImLegit posted:

Most of your questions were literally just answered yesterday by the main man himself. This must be embarrassing for you.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

A final word but thank you for reading and considering.

Nothing is ever "nailed down" completely when it's under development.

It's not even nailed down after initial development, because that's just the first version.

The only possible thing they could explain in such precise detail would be something that's already completely and utterly finished.

It's key to understand that things are always being developed - until they're actually developed.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

When we look at the progress over the last 2 years, we get an idea about the next 2 years.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I don't care for a lot of triple-A nonsense to be honest. Of the stuff released last year I'm only really interested in FFXV and I won't play that until it's on PC

The rest is just shooters and open world nonsense and that's just boring

aleksendr posted:

If you seriously beleive what you just wrote, this either prove you have never, ever came near any serious project with a budjet over a few thousands or that you should never, ever be given charge of one.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Honestly I agree. Most AAA stuff isn't great. I'm thinking SC will be able to either redefine what it means to be AAA or just straight up call it the first AAAA game.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I've had a lot more fun with Star Citizen than with any triple-AAA release post-Witcher 3

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Most of your questions were literally just answered yesterday by the main man himself. This must be embarrassing for you. When we look at the progress over the last 2 years, we get an idea about the next 2 years.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Posts like this are frustrating.

The problem is that if they tell you how they plan to do it and it doesn't go exactly that way, this entire thread will have shitfits even more than usual. That's why they say that's how we'd like to it, that's what we're hoping to aim for. People really don't get how insanely complex, dynamic, and constantly changing game development is.

It is one of the most blatant real-life examples of "a well-laid plan never survives contact with the enemy unharmed/without having holes punched in it". You can lay a general plan; you can say, we want to do this, we think this will be fun, we hope to do this, but the actual day to day development, much less long-term layout, is changing constantly and messing with those plans. Especially on a game that is trying to do this much, that is this big, and is doing so many things that haven't been done at this scale, fidelity, ambition, etc. Iteration is constant, unpredictable, and necessary to get something good.

Most people outside of the industry don't seem to be able to understand, conceive, or deal with this reality, and it's part of why most games, especially of this scale, are not developed even remotely openly. Because everyone who isn't in the trenches can't handle how unpredictable, difficult, iterative, complex, and nonlinear it is.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

We watched the same video, but through a different lens. A large portion of this thread is literally impossible to please. You are just quite vocal. It doesn't matter one tiny bit what is shown, said, or played, you will always, always want more.

Unfortunately it's to the point of absurdity. You all complain so much about not getting enough detail or insight, but don't realize that the more detailed the information we get is, the less people understand it.

CR even shows an example of this cargo thing in a big demo reveal, but you'll see people on here complaining as if he literally said nothing whatsoever about cargo/cargo missions. It's honestly astounding and disappointing. I've seen people on here have poo poo explained to them in simple terms like that, but then ask how the gently caress it's done in-game. Like.. poo poo dude, do you want a programmer/designer/whatever the hell job-guy to literally sit down and show you how to use his 3-D modelling program, or how to use his scripting program? Sorry, but unless you went to college for that poo poo or learned it over time (which is maybe .05% of this thread), you're not going to know what the hell is going on anyways.

I just don't even get it man.

Chalks posted:

Look at this: https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development

It's a kanban board for an early access video game. It lists every major issue and feature, details how the feature is planned, details its progress and tells you when they're hoping to release it.

Nobody loses their poo poo about it, things get delayed and new things get prioritised but we have a really clear view of what they're working on and how things are going.

Now look at Star Citizen. Look at the self proclaimed "Most open development team ever". Not only do we have nothing even slightly resembling this sort of information, we literally don't have even the most basic design documents for fundamental features that have been planned for 4 or 5 years.

You literally can't point to a single article telling us how trade or the economy will work. You can't point to a single article about how mining will work or how piracy or ship boarding will work.

Almost every interesting feature of this game isn't just unreleased. It's not just that we've not had an update on how it's progressing. Every interesting feature is literally unplanned and completely opaque. The best you can find about anything this game will actually have that makes it unique is some handwaving bullshit from Chris Roberts about maybe this and maybe that but trust me it'll be awesome. Five loving years into development and most of the features are nothing but that.

So no, it's not about the fact that if they release information about their game then there will be a shitshow if it ends up changing. They're failing to release information that absolutely has to be set in stone at this point for the game to have any chance of release with those features - but they're not telling us about them. It's not a master plan, it's incompetence and idiots trying to make up excuses for incompetence.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

What happened to those weekly CIG updates by the way? Were they supposed to shut them down when 2.6 was "finished" or did everybody just stop caring about it

Polish Avenger posted:

Well, you are dealing with the community that has formed around the position that CIG is not able to make the game they promised. There has been lots and lots ridicule and attack to and from the community of the opposite position and thus both positions are further entrenched in their belief. At this point, it's probably impossible for the egos involved to reverse themselves and see the other side without CIG releasing what they promised before the heat death of the universe. And I'm not saying egos like "big egos" but I mean it armchair-psychologically: those significantly involved have formed some part of their identity based on their side of this argument and have chosen their supporting principles appropriately (as in, developers leave games all the time vs no they don't). It takes major upheaval for people to reverse course once they've built an identity on something.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Have I played any of your AAA games?

TrustmeImLegit posted:

When we look at the progress over the last 2 years, we get an idea about the next 2 years.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Honestly I agree. Most AAA stuff isn't great. I'm thinking SC will be able to either redefine what it means to be AAA or just straight up call it the first AAAA game.

Chalks posted:

Look at this: https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development

It's a kanban board for an early access video game. It lists every major issue and feature, details how the feature is planned to work, details its progress and tells you when they're hoping to release it.

Nobody loses their poo poo about it, things get delayed and new things get prioritised but we have a really clear view of what they're working on and how things are going.

Now look at Star Citizen. Look at the self proclaimed "Most open development team ever". Not only do we have nothing even slightly resembling this sort of information, we literally don't have even the most basic design documents for fundamental features that have been planned for 4 or 5 years.

You literally can't point to a single article telling us how trade or the economy will work. You can't point to a single article about how mining will work or how piracy or ship boarding will work.

Almost every interesting feature of this game isn't just unreleased. It's not just that we've not had an update on how it's progressing. Every interesting feature is literally unplanned and completely opaque. The best you can find about anything this game will actually have that makes it unique is some handwaving bullshit from Chris Roberts about maybe this and maybe that but trust me it'll be awesome. Five loving years into development and most of the features are nothing but that.

So no, it's not about the fact that if they release information about their game then there will be a shitshow if it ends up changing. They're failing to release information that absolutely has to be set in stone at this point for the game to have any chance of release with those features - but they're not telling us about them. It's not a master plan, it's incompetence and idiots trying to make up excuses for incompetence.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

When we look at the progress over the last 2 years, we get an idea about the next 2 years.

CrazyLoon posted:

cripes...it's 3 and a half years since I first bought into this scam and over a year since I got all my poo poo out of it lol...how times fly...

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Honestly I agree. Most AAA stuff isn't great. I'm thinking SC will be able to either redefine what it means to be AAA or just straight up call it the first AAAA game.

Lladre posted:

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

Hey guys I just want to casually let you all know I OC'd my 220W Piledriver to 5GHz with a custom $200 cooler, now I can chill on the 'net and tell you all about how I don't really care about CPU performance and am satisfied with 30fps

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Its not too late to come back. Theres still some cool rewards to get.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

I honestly don't know how you can seriously compare SC with that. They are nothing alike in scope or goals. This is new territory.

When you are retreading old ground its easier to make predictions. No one communicates more volume wise than CIG hands down and frankly because of the nature of development things change.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Posts like this are frustrating.

The problem is that if they tell you how they plan to do it and it doesn't go exactly that way, this entire thread will have shitfits even more than usual. That's why they say that's how we'd like to it, that's what we're hoping to aim for. People really don't get how insanely complex, dynamic, and constantly changing game development is.

It is one of the most blatant real-life examples of "a well-laid plan never survives contact with the enemy unharmed/without having holes punched in it". You can lay a general plan; you can say, we want to do this, we think this will be fun, we hope to do this, but the actual day to day development, much less long-term layout, is changing constantly and messing with those plans. Especially on a game that is trying to do this much, that is this big, and is doing so many things that haven't been done at this scale, fidelity, ambition, etc. Iteration is constant, unpredictable, and necessary to get something good.

Most people outside of the industry don't seem to be able to understand, conceive, or deal with this reality, and it's part of why most games, especially of this scale, are not developed even remotely openly. Because everyone who isn't in the trenches can't handle how unpredictable, difficult, iterative, complex, and nonlinear it is.

TrustmeImLegit posted:

I honestly don't know how you can seriously compare SC with that. They are nothing alike in scope or goals. This is new territory.

When you are retreading old ground its easier to make predictions. No one communicates more volume wise than CIG hands down and frankly because of the nature of development things change.

Eldragon posted:

So 3.0 is the Jesus patch eh? When should we expect to see it?

MeLKoR posted:

Notes are being taken.

SelenicMartian posted:

So, before Sandi pulls the video...

TrustmeImLegit posted:

Most of your questions were literally just answered yesterday by the main man himself. This must be embarrassing for you. When we look at the progress over the last 2 years, we get an idea about the next 2 years.