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Sillybones posted:
This needs to be the side art for /r/starcitizen_refunds.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:40
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CrazyLoon posted:I just hope to cripes someone at their accounting dept. (if the numbskulls even have any) keeps a ledger with their actual income + expenses tallied and that it gets released into the wild when this entire shitshow is over. I'd pour over it so loving hard, to compare with the major events we all know and love lol. Oh it will end up in the public domain for backers. I can guarantee it.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:42
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Star Citizen development is a circle? More like a mobuus strip of refactoring.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:44
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D_Smart posted:Oh it will end up in the public domain for backers. I can guarantee it. I think this is 100% guaranteed, if this ever happens to get in court, since people funded it, everything should go back to the people. I gotta admit, even I would love to see all the assets they have made over the years.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:45
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TrustmeImLegit posted:we have PhD level discussions about this every single day with one of the most informed high level backer groups I've had the pleasure to know. 
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Jan 18, 2017 17:47
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lmao that new netcode's coming along fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1NP7tUO7g
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Jan 18, 2017 17:51
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Beet Wagon posted:lmao that new netcode's coming along fine: okay that poo poo was awesome.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:53
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lol It's never going to court and the financials will never be public. This is how it's going to end: They will run out of money, Chris will say "Welp we tried but it was just too ambitious and we faced constant antagonism from the (haters/media/big publishing), sorry." and then he and Sandi ride off into the sunset in matching limited edition 911s.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:53
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Beet Wagon posted:lmao that new netcode's coming along fine:   
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Jan 18, 2017 17:54
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Abongination posted:Much like Star Citizen, Surface's latest gimmick could have been so much more. GBS ruins everything. Ol Cactus Dick posted:Has SurfaceDetail posted his balls on his new account yet or is he holding off cause idiots are still falling for it? No scrote sighted as yet, but the forensic scrote-identifying team stands by.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:55
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aleksendr posted:You actually had me go back and listen to the dulcet "emm" and "humm" and "ahh" of "the main man himself" again. You own me a half hour of my life back. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the top devs throw around some knowledge. Its clear you had made up your mind before you started so unfortunately you are biased and were unable to even begin comprehending some of the concepts they were discussing. My cousin does this too when they don't understand their homework and they just get more and more upset as you try to explain. Also, sir this is a McDonald's drivethru.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:56
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D_Smart posted:Oh it will end up in the public domain for backers. I can guarantee it. 100% guaranteed legal action? Put a sock in it D.Rekt unless you have some proof.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:57
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By the way, PhD-level discussions go like this: "Ugh, drat referees aren't buying my argument so now I have to rewrite the whole section." "I feel you. The grant board rejected my case selection, so now it's all teaching the rest of the semester." "I know the..." "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Where did my reference db go?! Not nowwww [incoherent sputtering and crying]" "So... lunch?"
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Jan 18, 2017 18:01
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Mr.Tophat posted:Star Citizen development is a circle? More like a mobuus strip of refactoring. That's Agile dev for you. Constant iterations. Basic software dev honestly.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:02
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CrazyLoon posted:I just hope to cripes someone at their accounting dept. (if the numbskulls even have any) keeps a ledger with their actual income + expenses tallied and that it gets released into the wild when this entire shitshow is over. I'd pour over it so loving hard, to compare with the major events we all know and love lol. Oh they have a great accounting department. I bet it is larger than the QA department. The problem is, between the 14 different corps that exist...who knows what is happening even if you got the "passed around" financials. When I say passed around, I mean divisional or departmental statements that are consolidated. Conceivably, all CIG/RSI has to do would present a balance sheet and a P&L statement that basically rolls up all income and expense accounts to fulfill their obligation of the original ToS. There wouldn't be much dirt exposed in there in regards to specific items. But it would demonstrate how much they are losing overall. And, would give us untold hours of comedy speculating on which line item meant. In my opinion (after working for several) the CFO probably couldn't sleep at night and bailed due to ethic violations. Reason being they have to sign off of poo poo and as an officer could be held culpable. What a great not game Star Citizen is.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:06
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TrustmeImLegit posted:That's Agile dev for you. Constant iterations. Basic software dev honestly. Pretty sure agile dev requires milestones and frequent releases
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Jan 18, 2017 18:06
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Colostomy Bag posted:
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Jan 18, 2017 18:07
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TrustmeImLegit posted:That's Agile dev for you. Constant iterations. Basic software dev honestly. No, that's not how agile — or indeed any competent software development — works. If you do it right, you actually close in on a target rather than go around in circles, and especially not in topologically exotic ones. Tippis fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 18:07
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TrustmeImLegit posted:That's Agile dev for you. Constant iterations. Basic software dev honestly. Triggered. Agile is about increasing visibility and apportioning a given project into tasks that can be worked on. Constant Iteration is the methodology that constantly deploys. SC doesn't use CI and barely seems to understand agile. And you made me reply to you, so well done you rear end. Get your scrote out.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:07
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Hav posted:Triggered. Agile is about increasing visibility and apportioning a given project into tasks that can be worked on. Constant Iteration is the methodology that constantly deploys. SC doesn't use CI and barely seems to understand agile. SC is clearly Agile. We get constant updates, buildwise and information wise on a near daily basis. A project like SC is going to take a long time to iterate to the final product to be sure. But to say this isn't Agile is really ignorant about what is being released on this project on a regular basis.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:10
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I still wait for the first imgur link he'll post.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:11
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TrustmeImLegit posted:Posts like this are frustrating. This isn't a question of "they plan to do it and it doesn't go exactly that way". They "plan to do it" and then nothing even remotely close to what they plan actually happens. This has been true of nearly ever aspect of this project, from major release dates (Squadron 42 in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017?) to the nature of scope, schedule, and funding ("full functionality sooner rather than later" to ""when the scope changes, the amount of time it will take to deliver all the features naturally increases"). They plan on LTI being limited to early backers until they make it available to everyone with new concept sales. They plan on livestreams starting on time and then they never do. They planned on Star Marine (multiple times), they planned on using Illfonic's work (whoops), they planned on all the various ships (until they're repeatedly refactored), they planned on Star Marine being "weeks, not months away", they planned on countless things that simply don't happen. That's not game development, that's throwing poo poo against a wall and seeing what sticks. My background is a technical field. I spend a lot of time working on things that nobody has ever done before, iterating on design concepts, and developing technical solutions to extremely difficult problems. I am very much aware of how difficult it is to maintain a schedule when there's uncertainty. I am not a game developer, but I can imagine the combination of pushing a technical envelope and the art of making something that's actually fun (as opposed to merely functional) compounds that difficulty. That said game development is a profession and part of that competency is being able to accurately estimate workload and schedule. If the schedule is not met then there's a problem, either with the projection, the project management, or the scope of the game. It's not okay that CIG repeatedly says they expect one thing and then fail to have it happen, and they certainly shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts. Plenty of actual game developers have come into this very thread and lambasted CIG for their terrible practices. A constantly shifting scope is not a good thing. Look up the documentary on DOOM 2016, or listen to the commentary of developers like Mitch Gitelman (Harebrained Schemes, makers of Shadowrun and now working on BATTLETECH), Jake Solomon (X-COM and X-COM 2), Rob Irving (formerly of CIG now working at Descendent Studios), or our own Martin Anward (Game Director for Stellaris and The Wiz here on SA). All of them talk about having extremely tight, extremely focused visions and how difficult it is to say no to a good idea. Mitch put it perfectly; "Focus equals quality". In DOOM they talk about how "push forward gaming" became one of the defining mantras of the game; everything needed to be about pushing the player forward and maintaining the action. Star Citizen has no mantra, it has no focus, it has no vision. It's a muddled pile of half-formed ideas and hand-waved wishes that's constantly changing whenever new technology shows up or a new game does something better. Chris himself even admitted that they couldn't quantify what the expanding scope actually meant, which is why they stopped providing stretch goals. In fact things are so hosed that they can't even provide the features that were originally promised. Drop-in drop-out co-op is removed from Squadron 42. Private servers will not be part of release, and development of private servers and modding will be "literally the last thing we do" according to Jared. Not every ship will be available when the game is released, nor will there be 100 solar systems. The only thing CIG has committed to is reducing scope, not increasing it. And now they've admitted they don't even have enough money to deliver it. You're funding a fraud. CIG lacks the professional discipline necessary to even deliver the original scope of the game, let alone this massive clusterfuck of ambition that backers are expecting. You see their constant failures as natural signs of game development, even though they're the only ones who control scope and schedule and have had five years to understand the problems and get a sense of where things are. There is nothing normal about what they're doing, and they absolutely deserve to be mocked for their failings. The problem is that the people who should be criticizing them are you, not us.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:13
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What do you think Ben's office chair smells like?
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Jan 18, 2017 18:13
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TrustmeImLegit posted:SC is clearly Agile. We get constant updates, buildwise and information wise on a near daily basis. That doesn't make it agile, and the updates are pretty much completely devoid of actual information. Daily updates is one of those anti-patterns agile tries to avoid.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:14
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TrustmeImLegit posted:SC is clearly Agile. We get constant updates, buildwise and information wise on a near daily basis. A project like SC is going to take a long time to iterate to the final product to be sure. But to say this isn't Agile is really ignorant about what is being released on this project on a regular basis. The only thing CIG releases on a regular basis is dreams and ship sales.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:16
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Ol Cactus Dick posted:lol It's never going to court and the financials will never be public. This is how it's going to end: They will run out of money, Chris will say "Welp we tried but it was just too ambitious and we faced constant antagonism from the (haters/media/big publishing), sorry." and then he and Sandi ride off into the sunset in matching limited edition 911s. I see you haven't met a certain warlord that will prevent that 
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Jan 18, 2017 18:16
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:This isn't a question of "they plan to do it and it doesn't go exactly that way". They "plan to do it" and then nothing even remotely close to what they plan actually happens. This has been true of nearly ever aspect of this project, from major release dates (Squadron 42 in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017?) to the nature of scope, schedule, and funding ("full functionality sooner rather than later" to ""when the scope changes, the amount of time it will take to deliver all the features naturally increases"). They plan on LTI being limited to early backers until they make it available to everyone with new concept sales. They plan on livestreams starting on time and then they never do. They planned on Star Marine (multiple times), they planned on using Illfonic's work (whoops), they planned on all the various ships (until they're repeatedly refactored), they planned on Star Marine being "weeks, not months away", they planned on countless things that simply don't happen. That's not game development, that's throwing poo poo against a wall and seeing what sticks. That's honestly just your uninformed opinion. You've clearly had a bad customer experience with CIG and its coloring your """"analysis"""" of the project. Look at what you posted, it clearly assumes so many things including what the motives of CIG are and whether or not we are in a dunkin donuts drivethrough. I'll try to parse through the rest of it but I can see you called Chris a fraud. Something so laughably and demonstrably wrong I won't even dignify it with a rebuttal. 300+ employees man.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:17
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TrustmeImLegit posted:Or he just moved on. Jesus. Yeah, you are right. Buried next to Jimmy Hoffa.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:18
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TrustmeImLegit posted:They put out a newsletter last week. They're still holding beginning of year meetings and a new schedule will be put up this week or next. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrr_VVtyUA8
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Jan 18, 2017 18:18
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You dumb arseholes are so easy to troll I'm actually embarrassed.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:18
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_Scheduling
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Jan 18, 2017 18:19
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TrustmeImLegit posted:SC is clearly Agile. We get constant updates, buildwise and information wise on a near daily basis. A project like SC is going to take a long time to iterate to the final product to be sure. But to say this isn't Agile is really ignorant about what is being released on this project on a regular basis. MODS! Which one of you bastards brought this  sperg in here? Can you probate this insufferable twat until he stops talking in circles?
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Jan 18, 2017 18:20
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AP posted:You dumb arseholes are so easy to troll I'm actually embarrassed. We just haven't had anything new and shiny to play with since the holiday stream shitshow.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:22
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TrustmeImLegit posted:I can see you called Chris a fraud. Something so laughably and demonstrably wrong I won't even dignify it with a rebuttal. 300+ employees man. How is it demonstrated? Have you heard of Andrew Fastow?
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Jan 18, 2017 18:22
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Tippis posted:That doesn't make it agile, and the updates are pretty much completely devoid of actual information. Daily updates is one of those anti-patterns agile tries to avoid. Progress is usually better understood through seeing the scrum board, like this; https://trello.com/b/KbugnSRJ/subnautica-roadmap Each card is a task and they're using the lanes to indicate the release that they're shooting for. it's not a customer facing tool that only provides surface detail, but something that allows visibility into the development of the game in the near, mid and longterm. This is pretty much the gold standard of transparency in development. The light purges all doubt. SC uses updates to create buzz, and as such they're a marketing tool, because it's a Ponzi scheme that is surviving on the new money to allow the things that the old money bought to be built. Utterly Flarpy.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:25
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JugbandDude posted:I see you haven't met a certain warlord that will prevent that This guy? D_Smart posted:You guys think you're pissed now? Well then, better get ready for my upcoming blog because it's got some things that nobody saw coming, and which I can 100% guarantee will lead to legal action that will subsequently *force CIG to produce the promised financial accounting for the project - something that most of you are too scared to see happen.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:25
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DapperDon posted:MODS! Which one of you bastards brought this Hey, now, first amendment. This isn't Nazi Germany. Or is it 'Don'? I'm teasing, use your profile filter and don't be weak like me. AP posted:You dumb arseholes are so easy to troll I'm actually embarrassed. The jews did 9/11
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Jan 18, 2017 18:26
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AP posted:You dumb arseholes are so easy to troll I'm actually embarrassed. Its a "slow and snow" day over here, not even a 1/4 of the staff showed up. Need to entertain myself somehow so making noise with "Troll 101" is better than nothing.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:27
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TrustmeImLegit posted:That's honestly just your uninformed opinion. You've clearly had a bad customer experience with CIG and its coloring your """"analysis"""" of the project. Look at what you posted, it clearly assumes so many things including what the motives of CIG are and whether or not we are in a dunkin donuts drivethrough. I'll try to parse through the rest of it but I can see you called Chris a fraud. Something so laughably and demonstrably wrong I won't even dignify it with a rebuttal. 300+ employees man. Hey that's some very good MoMA, almost like the real thing
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Jan 18, 2017 18:29
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December 13, 2014 August 14, 2016 
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