[Mafia] Final Fantasy 3

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Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

I'm proud of you, Gulag.

I also agree with it.

IS, was your vote on Moat a joke vote, cause it sure looks like a joke vote on someone who is currently the vote leader.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:30

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 02:54

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

GulagDolls posted:

the effort case

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:30

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

GulagDolls posted:

Hey, have you heard?

The merchants who just came into town said that we'd be getting a big effort case soon!!

Lunar is the best game, I will not be voting gulag

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:31

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

this is a stickup posted:

I like this reaction less tbh

Jeez just because I said agreeing with me was scummy doesn't mean you gotta try so hard to make just me think you're town now buddy

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:32

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

Bifauxnen posted:

Jeez just because I said agreeing with me was scummy doesn't mean you gotta try so hard to make just me think you're town now buddy

I didn't say whether I agreed or not :allears:

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:34

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

IllegallySober posted:

Uh, sure, whatever this is? I have no idea what to even respond to here.

I mean look at that, if someone cased me like that and it was wrong, I might take a while to figure out how to give a proper response in defense, but I sure wouldn't whip off some dismissive reaction like "uh, sure, whatever this is?" It is art, dammit!

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:34

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

I finished reading the OP

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:35

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

I'm proud of you, Gulag.

I also agree with it.

IS, was your vote on Moat a joke vote, cause it sure looks like a joke vote on someone who is currently the vote leader.

No, my vote is on the guy who tried to swing the vote by hoping nobody would actually look at what he posted:

Moatillata posted:

Nothing in the cave except enemies and the boss djinn no reason not to go balls to the wall

IllegallySober posted:

Nah, cause according to the walk through you posted Princess Sara also joins our party in this cave. I bet if we blindly attack, we're gonna accidentally stab her instead.

Option A

IllegallySober posted:

Look how disingenuous you are

From the same walk through you posted:

In the next cave go down-left for a chest (500 gil). Then go to the skull at the top-right corner. Zoom in and you see that it shines. Activate it and the wall will upon up. Continue along the path and enter the next room, where Princess Sara will join the party.

##vote Moatillata

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:36

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

this is a stickup posted:

I didn't say whether I agreed or not

uh okay? I meant to imply that moving from buttering me up to accusing me of being scum is not gonna win you more points with me just cause you did an about-face. But maybe I'm just speaking loving moonspeak again

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:36

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Bifauxnen posted:

I mean look at that, if someone cased me like that and it was wrong, I might take a while to figure out how to give a proper response in defense, but I sure wouldn't whip off some dismissive reaction like "uh, sure, whatever this is?" It is art, dammit!

You and I apparently have different taste in art. I see a whole lot of effort into typing up something that makes no sense at all.

If you or he or someone else wants to interpret it, then I'm happy to respond to it.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:38

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

Bifauxnen posted:

uh okay? I meant to imply that moving from buttering me up to accusing me of being scum is not gonna win you more points with me just cause you did an about-face. But maybe I'm just speaking loving moonspeak again

and I'm going to keep doing it because this is a really dumb way to scum hunt

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:39

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

IllegallySober posted:

No, my vote is on the guy who tried to swing the vote by hoping nobody would actually look at what he posted:

i dont get why you think maybe wanting to stab a princess makes someone scum

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:42

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

this is a stickup posted:

and I'm going to keep doing it because this is a really dumb way to scum hunt

maybe you could explain for the others what masterful rhetorical trap you were so proud of there that it warranted an allears emote? Cause to me it looks like you're just trying to drum up the appearance of a gotcha where there is none.

Or you could also explain what you think of this new case on IS instead of just deflecting from it.

would move my vote back to stickup in a heartbeat

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:45

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

IllegallySober posted:

No, my vote is on the guy who tried to swing the vote by hoping nobody would actually look at what he posted:

_{which he didn't read all the way thru either}

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:45

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

IllegallySober posted:

You and I apparently have different taste in art. I see a whole lot of effort into typing up something that makes no sense at all.

If you or he or someone else wants to interpret it, then I'm happy to respond to it.

It's actually not that complicated a case. He quotes three posts

1) Your vote for B seems self-conscious. Nobody was ragging on you for not voting.

2) You agree with me about KB but then also think that KB joking doesn't make him scummy, so which is it?

3) Your vote on Moat appears to be a joke vote. Now that you've said it isn't, that feels like a really flimsy reason. I skimmed that walkthrough he linked too and came to the same conclusion. Why would he, as scum read the walkthrough enough to know that A was the best option for town, and then link that walkthrough which gives that information in the thread and go with option B? Like it's far more likely that he misread than he knowingly provided a way to show that he was wrong.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:46

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

I mean honestly I was just proud of myself for going through the effort of looking it up

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:46

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

Bifauxnen posted:

maybe you could explain for the others what masterful rhetorical trap you were so proud of there that it warranted an allears emote? Cause to me it looks like you're just trying to drum up the appearance of a gotcha where there is none.

Or you could also explain what you think of this new case on IS instead of just deflecting from it.

would move my vote back to stickup in a heartbeat

I agree! I could do that

you're exactly right

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:46

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

this is a stickup posted:

I agree! I could do that

you're exactly right

Lol I see what you're doing here and it amuses me

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:47

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

Moatillata posted:

I mean honestly I was just proud of myself for going through the effort of looking it up

you should feel ashamed you cheating gently caress

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:50

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

chaoslord posted:

RE: The KB/Asiina thing, I don't get a scum read from Asiina. Her posts were "KB isnt trying", "I expect more from you", and "You don't get active in jokephase." KB replies with this, bolding mine.

This sounds damning to Asiina until you realize what KB should be saying is "your claim is now seemingly that I don't participate [in jokephase] and simultaneously I also try harder?" which is not a contradiction. It's a logical pairing. It's clear Asiina draws a distinction between "active in game" and "active in joking". KB is really stretching to make this be a contradiction imo.

Whether she has a good point, imo, is another thing, but her opinion is consistent and trying to sell it as not looks bad imo.

Naw, she really didn't have any valid point even after I accounted for that. It just doesn't make sense without additional information/insight. Like for that pairing to make sense, there is a missing piece. Like really, for it to work, she'd have to be saying that I always drag the game out of joke phase. And that is not something I do on the regular. It's just impossible for me to have been trying hard during joke phase without participating in it. It's not like I can exist in my own bubble without interacting with others.

When I looked back at my games to prove her wrong I confirmed that I wasn't missing anything in regards to that. I won't reiterate what I found here.

I still think what she was saying seems made up, and it seemed to me like she was shifting her opinion to respond.

I'm waffling a bit now because I somewhat agree with what she's been saying on claiming and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a scum place.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:52

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

GulagDolls posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALEwLnq1ZrI

These are the journal entries of famed archaeologist Doctor Takahashi, recollected from the "Merk's Tomb" dig site, which has since been quarantined. Doctor Takahashi's writings are fragmentary and presented as they were found, unchanged.

JOURNAL #2010:

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: For years, I have extensively documented the mysterious artifacts known as "cases." Who created the cases? For what purpose did they serve these ancient peoples? No matter how many hours I spent pouring myself into my research, I could not uncover the answer. For months I tossed and turned, my mind a miasma of sorrow and rage. I began to think that the only way to understand the minds of these case-makers, was to attempt to make a case MYSELF. My colleagues call this endeavor a "ferocious obsession," but I remain steadfast. Thankfully, my laboratory assistant, "IllegallySober," has agreed to support me in this. They will attempt to make cases of their own, and in turn be the subject of my case.

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: Though not a member of the Proto-Humanoid race of peoples known as "Mafia Players" myself, I was confident in my ability to imitate their actions. My only hope is that it is safe to do so. For what use is knowledge, if one loses his soul? Nevertheless, I surmised that my specimen seemed... self-conscious. They had made an excuse for themselves being late, despite the lack of any impetus, urging, or harassment from their peers. From this, I gathered that, perhaps, they were hiding something.

JOURNAL #2015

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: It has been three days since I began making the "case." Astonishing to think that the structure of these artifacts remained largely the same over thousands of years, as the populace that invented them was overtaken and swollen with savages from the Southeast, but I digress. Here, I once again take note of my subject's anxious heart. In so many words, they
had brought up two opposing arguments, and both rejected and embraced them at the same time. This behaviour speaks of a narcissistic mind, concerned only with itself. I begin to grow disgusted with my fellow. I know that they are hiding something. I will uncover the truth.

A piece of writing from another researcher, the only one of its kind, was also recovered. From our best estimates, It would seem to fit in somewhere between entries 2015 and 2030 of Takahashi's writings.

JOURNAL X:

UNKNOWN: Dr Takahashi's obsession is truly frightening...some say he is part Mafia Player himself. I feel extremely uneasy with him heading this expedition. Our numbers have thinned considerably from the many traps set to protect the tomb of "Merk." Yet we slouch onward without reluctance, as if pulled deeper by some unseen hand...

JOURNAL #2030

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: Since the dawn of civilization, mankind has been enthralled and stupefied by the majestic glory of Merk. His influence holds language even today. Who has not said that they would like to be "as good as Merk," or described their hatred of the Australians as "Merk-like"? Injudicious nu-humans would deny us this benevolent heritage in favor of an insensitive and vacuous populism. My fellow researcher was a perfect example of this. After so long into our expedition, they still approached their casework with such non-nonchalance. How could they not see the importance of what we were doing?! They continued to rely on what the [unintelligible] called "Joke-phase."

But that is at an end now. I have found the resting place of Merk. He has spoken to me. He has told me that there is a way to blow away the noxious miasma infesting our country and reinstate His divine rule. The offering of blood and spirit has been made. Their is only one step left. I will now sever my own head and place it upon the cerebral chrono-platform.

After an investigation of Merk's Tomb, Doctor Takahashi and his fellow researchers were declared missing. There were fresh blood spatters found in many corridors and rooms, but no bodies. The burial chamber room was also found completely empty. An investigation into these disappearances is ongoing.

##vote illegallysober

This is beautiful. I can see what you mean here. But I myself was also weirded out by Moat's attempt to steer us wrong. It made me wonder if Pig gave the scum team the answer key this time. (He hasn't in previous games)

# ? Jan 23, 2017 03:58

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

King Burgundy posted:

This is beautiful. I can see what you mean here. But I myself was also weirded out by Moat's attempt to steer us wrong. It made me wonder if Pig gave the scum team the answer key this time. (He hasn't in previous games)

What do you think of my reasoning on why this doesn't really make sense?

Asiina posted:

3) Your vote on Moat appears to be a joke vote. Now that you've said it isn't, that feels like a really flimsy reason. I skimmed that walkthrough he linked too and came to the same conclusion. Why would he, as scum read the walkthrough enough to know that A was the best option for town, and then link that walkthrough which gives that information in the thread and go with option B? Like it's far more likely that he misread than he knowingly provided a way to show that he was wrong.

Like I can understand on the surface not choosing the right option could be scummy, but why point at something that is going to contradict you if you're intentionally misleading?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:01

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Bifauxnen posted:

uh okay? I meant to imply that moving from buttering me up to accusing me of being scum is not gonna win you more points with me just cause you did an about-face. But maybe I'm just speaking loving moonspeak again

I understand you so far this game.

I disagree with you on Stick, based on my partial meta on him I'm leaning at least slightly town on him currently.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:02

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

GulagDolls posted:

you should feel ashamed you cheating gently caress

Gah... No....

:negative:

.....My... E-bushido....

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:02

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

I don't feel like it's a good assumption to make that he did give them the key this time, then.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:02

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

Honestly, if anyone is going to take heat for being on the wrong option it should be me because I skimmed the walkthrough, missed the information, and also voted for B but you could make an argument that I was trying to start momentum for a worse option, but nobody is doing that so I find it hard to believe a vote on Moat for doing it.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:03

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

It's actually not that complicated a case. He quotes three posts

1) Your vote for B seems self-conscious. Nobody was ragging on you for not voting.

2) You agree with me about KB but then also think that KB joking doesn't make him scummy, so which is it?

3) Your vote on Moat appears to be a joke vote. Now that you've said it isn't, that feels like a really flimsy reason. I skimmed that walkthrough he linked too and came to the same conclusion. Why would he, as scum read the walkthrough enough to know that A was the best option for town, and then link that walkthrough which gives that information in the thread and go with option B? Like it's far more likely that he misread than he knowingly provided a way to show that he was wrong.

Okay, this is easier to parse. Thanks.

1) The encounter vote only lasted three hours and I didn't see it until 40 minutes before the vote ended. I was simply saying I was glad I saw it in time to vote. I didn't want to miss the vote. That's pretty much it.

2) I'll quote what I said again:

IllegallySober posted:

I dunno, I kind of have the same feeling Asiina does w/r/t KB, but it's in the context of very few games with him. I feel KB is a strong town player and makes good lengthy cases as town but I'm not sure I'd say that a few jokes during D1 makes him scum. It's worth watching, though.

My point, to restate, is that I could see where you were coming from but it wasn't the slam-dunk case you appeared to think it was. Seems like nobody else really thought it was, either.

3) So my vote, the first vote on the guy who's the current vote leader, that I cited a case (whatever you think of it) is a joke vote? Like, what? If he'd just linked the walk through as he did and then I pointed it out, fine, but he apparently read it enough to know who the boss was and then goes "nothing but enemies and a boss here!" in a separate post. THAT'S what I find scummy- not just the "mistake."

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:03

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

I don't think ISs vote is a joke vote

It's misguided but honestly I deserve it for not really reading it all the way through

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:05

Juchero: Feb 15, 2008; Wedge Regret

I have no idea who to vote for after reading all 12 pages of this day 1

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:06

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

Moatillata posted:

I don't think ISs vote is a joke vote

It's misguided but honestly I deserve it for not really reading it all the way through

You really don't, because it makes no sense for scum to do that.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:06

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

apparently IllegallySober hasn't played in that many games and also I feel like they genuinely believe in their case even though I didnt even think it was real. I'm inclined to not murder them. IDK who else to murder though

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:06

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

Absurd Revolver posted:

I have no idea who to vote for after reading all 12 pages of this day 1

oh, duh. we can kill this guy

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:07

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

we could kill tobbs, he's always a good d1 lynch

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:07

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

GulagDolls posted:

oh, duh. we can kill this guy

or BottleKnight

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:07

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Asiina posted:

What do you think of my reasoning on why this doesn't really make sense?

Like I can understand on the surface not choosing the right option could be scummy, but why point at something that is going to contradict you if you're intentionally misleading?

Eh, I can see it going either way honestly. It also made me think Moat was scummier, so I can see why he thought so, if that's a real opinion. There are several reasons for why Moat would do it that way as scum, the first is what he already claimed, he didn't read through it enough to realize it contradicted his point. He could easily have found this as scum, if Pig gave them the answer key this time, and used it to try and drive the wrong choice and just not realized it didn't. To me that is the most logical possibility. But I suppose he could have also done it intentionally thinking no one would pay that much attention/read through that far. I find this less likely, because he's in a game with me, you, bifaux, etc who will chase things like that down, but you missed it, so it's hard to say.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:09

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

GulagDolls posted:

apparently IllegallySober hasn't played in that many games and also I feel like they genuinely believe in their case even though I didnt even think it was real. I'm inclined to not murder them. IDK who else to murder though

GulagDolls posted:

oh, duh. we can kill this guy

I believe gulag is town this game

Asiina posted:

You really don't, because it makes no sense for scum to do that.

I think it's p :tinfoil:

of him but honestly it makes me feel like he is engaged paranoid town instead of scum

Rn I would Lynch sticky or maybe a lurker

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:09

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

GulagDolls posted:

I don't feel like it's a good assumption to make that he did give them the key this time, then.

Yeah, I'm only willing to consider it as a possibility since he changed so much this time around and the game style is different. Not giving scum a kill and instead giving them info.

But yeah, may still just be random.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:11

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

IllegallySober posted:

Okay, this is easier to parse. Thanks.

1) The encounter vote only lasted three hours and I didn't see it until 40 minutes before the vote ended. I was simply saying I was glad I saw it in time to vote. I didn't want to miss the vote. That's pretty much it.

2) I'll quote what I said again:

My point, to restate, is that I could see where you were coming from but it wasn't the slam-dunk case you appeared to think it was. Seems like nobody else really thought it was, either.

3) So my vote, the first vote on the guy who's the current vote leader, that I cited a case (whatever you think of it) is a joke vote? Like, what? If he'd just linked the walk through as he did and then I pointed it out, fine, but he apparently read it enough to know who the boss was and then goes "nothing but enemies and a boss here!" in a separate post. THAT'S what I find scummy- not just the "mistake."

Fine on the first one, it's a pretty weak point as it is. The second and third don't really address the concerns which I guess were Gulag's concerns but I'm definitely on board with now.

You see where I'm coming from but then also don't seem to agree with it, saying that "I'm not sure a few joke votes on D1 makes him scum", which was the basis of my case. Like yeah it was a flimsy very early D1 case so I get not being convinced by it, but the point is you seem to be taking both sides. Other people didn't buy it either and I've totally backed off it since I was proved wrong so I'm not sure what anyone else has to do with your specific opinion.

The last point doesn't address the logical inconsistency at all of him realizing that town was choosing the right option, deciding to mislead town into choosing a different option, and then linking to the very information that proves him wrong.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:12

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

King Burgundy posted:

Eh, I can see it going either way honestly. It also made me think Moat was scummier, so I can see why he thought so, if that's a real opinion. There are several reasons for why Moat would do it that way as scum, the first is what he already claimed, he didn't read through it enough to realize it contradicted his point. He could easily have found this as scum, if Pig gave them the answer key this time, and used it to try and drive the wrong choice and just not realized it didn't. To me that is the most logical possibility. But I suppose he could have also done it intentionally thinking no one would pay that much attention/read through that far. I find this less likely, because he's in a game with me, you, bifaux, etc who will chase things like that down, but you missed it, so it's hard to say.

This...what?

So he's scum who has the answer key (which we have no indication of and hasn't been true of previous games with this mechanic) plus he made a mistake?

This is the most logical possibility compared to he's town who made a mistake? Like one involves a whole lot more assumptions to be true than the other.

Again I can see on the surface why this is scummier, but actually think about it and it doesn't make sense.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:15

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 02:54

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

On the lurker issue, here are the folks with less posts then Pig:

AnonymousNarcotics 8
Murmur Twin 7
Mr. F! 7
Absurd Revolver 6
Mithross 4

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:16

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