[Mafia] Final Fantasy 3

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Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

I know I'm making sense here. This chain of events doesn't logically follow.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:18

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 09:49

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

gently caress, didn't know deadline was tonight.

Have 240 posts to read through.

Will do so.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:20

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Asiina posted:

This...what?

So he's scum who has the answer key (which we have no indication of and hasn't been true of previous games with this mechanic) plus he made a mistake?

This is the most logical possibility compared to he's town who made a mistake? Like one involves a whole lot more assumptions to be true than the other.

Again I can see on the surface why this is scummier, but actually think about it and it doesn't make sense.

You asked for a reason why he'd do it as scum, that is the most logical one to me for why he'd do it as scum. I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means, all I was saying is that it made me also think he was scummier. And even after thinking more about it, I'm still not ready to completely rule it out.

I'm torn on whether or not Pig gave them the key this time. Like, if they had a night kill, I'd say no way. But with no night kill maybe that would be how they are expected to win?

If Pig didn't give them the key, I don't see a scum motivation.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:20

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Asiina posted:

I know I'm making sense here. This chain of events doesn't logically follow.

What you are saying makes perfect sense. The difference seems to be our willingness to believe scum know the answers.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:21

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

King Burgundy posted:

You asked for a reason why he'd do it as scum, that is the most logical one to me for why he'd do it as scum. I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means, all I was saying is that it made me also think he was scummier. And even after thinking more about it, I'm still not ready to completely rule it out.

I'm torn on whether or not Pig gave them the key this time. Like, if they had a night kill, I'd say no way. But with no night kill maybe that would be how they are expected to win?

If Pig didn't give them the key, I don't see a scum motivation.

they line of logic that they would have the key because of no nightkill makes sense to me.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:22

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

Fine on the first one, it's a pretty weak point as it is. The second and third don't really address the concerns which I guess were Gulag's concerns but I'm definitely on board with now.

You see where I'm coming from but then also don't seem to agree with it, saying that "I'm not sure a few joke votes on D1 makes him scum", which was the basis of my case. Like yeah it was a flimsy very early D1 case so I get not being convinced by it, but the point is you seem to be taking both sides. Other people didn't buy it either and I've totally backed off it since I was proved wrong so I'm not sure what anyone else has to do with your specific opinion.

The last point doesn't address the logical inconsistency at all of him realizing that town was choosing the right option, deciding to mislead town into choosing a different option, and then linking to the very information that proves him wrong.

Re: you/KB, it's not like I've been continuously pushing that case/line of thinking after you backed down from it. I said it was something to watch. There's lots of things I keep in mind over the course of a game. Do you not do the same?

Re: your last point, I'll say it again. The post that gets me is not the linking of the document and his vote. The post that gets me is his second post where he essentially implies no one else needs to read what he linked because he's already read it and there's nothing there. Is it possible that he's mistaken, helpful town? Sure. Would mistaken, helpful town make that second post? Even down to naming the end boss which he wouldn't have known except by reading the document he linked, not the sidebar he highlighted? I don't think so.

I'm on mobile and the Awful app isn't allowing me to post the screenshot I wanted to, but if you look, it's from two different places. That's my point.

To be clear, do I 100% know he's scum based off that? Absolutely not. But it's what's stuck in my mind since he posted it, so that's where my vote is.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:23

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

King Burgundy posted:

On the lurker issue, here are the folks with less posts then Pig:

AnonymousNarcotics 8
Murmur Twin 7
Mr. F! 7
Absurd Revolver 6
Mithross 4

I dont know who Mr.F is and forgot they were in this game

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:25

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

peramene posted:

I honestly do not understand these day one circlejerks. Every single thread everybody's tossing poo poo around and I mean I've seen it grab scum day 1 okay cool but it seems like a LOT of work to bounce around all over the place and make hundreds of posts and then eventually nobody gets loving anywhere

which is exactly what I would want the thread to be constantly if I were scum

so

see ya'll for the next encounter

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:26

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

who do we even have the numbers to kill

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:27

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

Except the name of the boss is in a big heading with larger font.

Here's a screenshot because I know people are lazy.

Skimming that, it's super easy to miss the line in the middle of the second paragraph about Sara joining you while still seeing the heading for the boss. I missed it when I skimmed to see if he was telling the truth.

And again, why link this walkthrough that proves you wrong. You keep dismissing it, but it's the big reason why this doesn't follow.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:28

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

I'm not voting for Moat because I think he's town.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:29

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Bifauxnen posted:

I dont know who Mr.F is and forgot they were in this game

Magnus Gallant

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:29

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

##vote tobbs

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:30

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

I'd vote for IS, I'd vote for a lurker I suppose, but honestly peramene has a point that with no NK a no lynch isn't really that bad an idea.

##vote IS

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:30

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

Kashuno posted:

scum post.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:33

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

Except the name of the boss is in a big heading with larger font.

Here's a screenshot because I know people are lazy.

Skimming that, it's super easy to miss the line in the middle of the second paragraph about Sara joining you while still seeing the heading for the boss. I missed it when I skimmed to see if he was telling the truth.

And again, why link this walkthrough that proves you wrong. You keep dismissing it, but it's the big reason why this doesn't follow.

The point about the font being bigger is decent. I'll give you that. The screenshot I took and was referring to doesn't go that far down the page (I took it on mobile in landscape).

You're willfully ignoring MY argument about his second post. But if I'm the only one who has a problem with this, then I guess I'll concede. However, at this point, unless VF is wrong, he's still the vote leader, so in your opinion, who's the better lynch?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:34

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

I assume there is some mechanic in play that makes NLing a poor choice. scum have to have a way to advance their agenda SOMEHOW (maybe by accruing dark crystal points power and summoning meteor) or else the game can just sit in limbo forever

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:34

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Yeah, I mean, I guess we could just level up, do the story and get jobs. With no night kill there isn't really any kind of ticking clock.

But having said that, I have reason to believe there are kills in this game, even if no night kill. So it may not be that straight forward.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:34

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

I'd vote for IS, I'd vote for a lurker I suppose, but honestly peramene has a point that with no NK a no lynch isn't really that bad an idea.

##vote IS

Oh, I guess it's me. Well then. Why?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:35

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

King Burgundy posted:

Naw, she really didn't have any valid point even after I accounted for that. It just doesn't make sense without additional information/insight. Like for that pairing to make sense, there is a missing piece. Like really, for it to work, she'd have to be saying that I always drag the game out of joke phase. And that is not something I do on the regular. It's just impossible for me to have been trying hard during joke phase without participating in it. It's not like I can exist in my own bubble without interacting with others.

Nah. Her opinion was consistent. It was wrong, as you point out, but it was consistent.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:35

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

##unvote

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:36

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Because I made a case you didn't agree with?

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:36

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

chaoslord posted:

Nah. Her opinion was consistent. It was wrong, as you point out, but it was consistent.

Have to agree to disagree then.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:37

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

GulagDolls posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALEwLnq1ZrI

These are the journal entries of famed archaeologist Doctor Takahashi, recollected from the "Merk's Tomb" dig site, which has since been quarantined. Doctor Takahashi's writings are fragmentary and presented as they were found, unchanged.

JOURNAL #2010:

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: For years, I have extensively documented the mysterious artifacts known as "cases." Who created the cases? For what purpose did they serve these ancient peoples? No matter how many hours I spent pouring myself into my research, I could not uncover the answer. For months I tossed and turned, my mind a miasma of sorrow and rage. I began to think that the only way to understand the minds of these case-makers, was to attempt to make a case MYSELF. My colleagues call this endeavor a "ferocious obsession," but I remain steadfast. Thankfully, my laboratory assistant, "IllegallySober," has agreed to support me in this. They will attempt to make cases of their own, and in turn be the subject of my case.

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: Though not a member of the Proto-Humanoid race of peoples known as "Mafia Players" myself, I was confident in my ability to imitate their actions. My only hope is that it is safe to do so. For what use is knowledge, if one loses his soul? Nevertheless, I surmised that my specimen seemed... self-conscious. They had made an excuse for themselves being late, despite the lack of any impetus, urging, or harassment from their peers. From this, I gathered that, perhaps, they were hiding something.

JOURNAL #2015

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: It has been three days since I began making the "case." Astonishing to think that the structure of these artifacts remained largely the same over thousands of years, as the populace that invented them was overtaken and swollen with savages from the Southeast, but I digress. Here, I once again take note of my subject's anxious heart. In so many words, they
had brought up two opposing arguments, and both rejected and embraced them at the same time. This behaviour speaks of a narcissistic mind, concerned only with itself. I begin to grow disgusted with my fellow. I know that they are hiding something. I will uncover the truth.

A piece of writing from another researcher, the only one of its kind, was also recovered. From our best estimates, It would seem to fit in somewhere between entries 2015 and 2030 of Takahashi's writings.

JOURNAL X:

UNKNOWN: Dr Takahashi's obsession is truly frightening...some say he is part Mafia Player himself. I feel extremely uneasy with him heading this expedition. Our numbers have thinned considerably from the many traps set to protect the tomb of "Merk." Yet we slouch onward without reluctance, as if pulled deeper by some unseen hand...

JOURNAL #2030

DOCTOR TAKAHASHI: Since the dawn of civilization, mankind has been enthralled and stupefied by the majestic glory of Merk. His influence holds language even today. Who has not said that they would like to be "as good as Merk," or described their hatred of the Australians as "Merk-like"? Injudicious nu-humans would deny us this benevolent heritage in favor of an insensitive and vacuous populism. My fellow researcher was a perfect example of this. After so long into our expedition, they still approached their casework with such non-nonchalance. How could they not see the importance of what we were doing?! They continued to rely on what the [unintelligible] called "Joke-phase."

But that is at an end now. I have found the resting place of Merk. He has spoken to me. He has told me that there is a way to blow away the noxious miasma infesting our country and reinstate His divine rule. The offering of blood and spirit has been made. Their is only one step left. I will now sever my own head and place it upon the cerebral chrono-platform.

After an investigation of Merk's Tomb, Doctor Takahashi and his fellow researchers were declared missing. There were fresh blood spatters found in many corridors and rooms, but no bodies. The burial chamber room was also found completely empty. An investigation into these disappearances is ongoing.

##vote illegallysober

##vote IllegallySober

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:38

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Votecount for Day 1

Moatillata (3): this is a stickup, Tobbs Gnawed, IllegallySober, King Burgundy, ~~IllegallySober~~, ~~Tobbs Gnawed~~, Murmur Twin, ~~King Burgundy~~, ~~this is a stickup~~, ~~Murmur Twin~~, IllegallySober, jon joe, chaoslord, this is a stickup, AnonymousNarcotics, ~~this is a stickup~~, ~~chaoslord~~

IllegallySober (3): GulagDolls, Bifauxnen, Asiina

this is a stickup (3): Moatillata, ~~Moatillata~~, Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~, Infinitum, Tobbs Gnawed, Moatillata, Bifauxnen, ~~Bifauxnen~~

Asiina (2): King Burgundy, ~~King Burgundy~~, IllegallySober, ~~IllegallySober~~, King Burgundy, Kashuno

Kashuno (2): BottleKnight, Murmur Twin

Tobbs Gnawed (1): Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~, this is a stickup, ~~this is a stickup~~, this is a stickup

BottleKnight (0): chaoslord, Bifauxnen, ~~chaoslord~~, ~~Bifauxnen~~

Bifauxnen (0): Kashuno, jon joe, ~~jon joe~~, ~~Kashuno~~

peramene (0): BottleKnight, jon joe, this is a stickup, GulagDolls, ~~BottleKnight~~, ~~this is a stickup~~, this is a stickup, Infinitum, ~~jon joe~~, ~~this is a stickup~~, ~~Infinitum~~, ~~GulagDolls~~

King Burgundy (0): Asiina, ~~Asiina~~

AnonymousNarcotics (0): Asiina, ~~Asiina~~

Infinitum (0): Bifauxnen, ~~Bifauxnen~~, Kashuno, ~~Kashuno~~, jon joe, ~~jon joe~~, this is a stickup, ~~this is a stickup~~

Murmur Twin (0): Tobbs Gnawed, ~~Tobbs Gnawed~~

Not Voting (5): Absurd Revolver, chaoslord, Mithross, Mr. F!, peramene

With 19 alive, it's 10 votes to execute. The current deadline is January 22^nd, 2017 at 11:59 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 hour, 20 minutes.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:38

Juchero: Feb 15, 2008; Wedge Regret

to be fair, once again i'm dealing with the consequences of living in florida and we have another massive storm(this time, maybe tornados) bearing down on us

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:39

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah, I mean, I guess we could just level up, do the story and get jobs. With no night kill there isn't really any kind of ticking clock.

But having said that, I have reason to believe there are kills in this game, even if no night kill. So it may not be that straight forward.

yeah, with scum knowing all the job details, they can plan for an ideal build and work their way up to a kill soon, I'd imagine.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:39

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

Absurd Revolver posted:

to be fair, once again i'm dealing with the consequences of living in florida and we have another massive storm(this time, maybe tornados) bearing down on us

So plenty of time for mafs then

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:41

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

Asiina posted:

Skimming that, it's super easy to miss the line in the middle of the second paragraph about Sara joining you while still seeing the heading for the boss. I missed it when I skimmed to see if he was telling the truth.

And again, why link this walkthrough that proves you wrong. You keep dismissing it, but it's the big reason why this doesn't follow.

So why is it impossible that scum moat skimmed it, saw a lead to a different answer, and posted it? You proved it was misable by skimming. I think it would be an easy thing to do of any alignment. It's a null imo.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:41

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

IllegallySober posted:

Oh, I guess it's me. Well then. Why?

Cause I think you were trying to play both sides when KB and I were arguing, and because I think that if you're continuing to argue this Moat case even after considering that he provided his own way to be caught then that is bad and scummy.

I don't necessarily blame people who aren't thinking about it too hard and have since checked out since I pointed out it didn't make sense, but you've heard the argument on why it's not a logical case and are continuing to push it.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:41

Infinitum: Jul 30, 2004

Hello thread,

I am hopped the gently caress up on painkillers, antibiotics, and etc as my foot is now officially doctor certified infected~
Catching up on thread.

If you have any major cases you would like to link to me, please let me know.
Will be here until deadline

King Burgundy posted:

On the lurker issue, here are the folks with less posts then Pig:

AnonymousNarcotics 8
Murmur Twin 7
Mr. F! 7
Absurd Revolver 6
Mithross 4

D1 Pushes for Lurker Lynches are dumb and bad, and I always put the people who do this firmly in the "Probably Scum" category

"Oh these people are making a good case on my scumbro, better push a lurker lynch"
"Hey guys, I know we can't all agree, lets lynch a lurker today!"

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:43

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Asiina posted:

Cause I think you were trying to play both sides when KB and I were arguing, and because I think that if you're continuing to argue this Moat case even after considering that he provided his own way to be caught then that is bad and scummy.

I don't necessarily blame people who aren't thinking about it too hard and have since checked out since I pointed out it didn't make sense, but you've heard the argument on why it's not a logical case and are continuing to push it.

You did see my reasoning as well right? Like the only reason you think it's illogical is because you seem sure scum didn't get the answers. You already think Moat made a mistake. He could have made that mistake as scum if they had the answers.

I don't want to fight hard for IS here, because I liked Gulag's first two points. But I do want to defend my own opinion which seems similar.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:44

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

Infinitum posted:

Hello thread,

I am hopped the gently caress up on painkillers, antibiotics, and etc as my foot is now officially doctor certified infected~
Catching up on thread.

If you have any major cases you would like to link to me, please let me know.
Will be here until deadline

D1 Pushes for Lurker Lynches are dumb and bad, and I always put the people who do this firmly in the "Probably Scum" category

"Oh these people are making a good case on my scumbro, better push a lurker lynch"
"Hey guys, I know we can't all agree, lets lynch a lurker today!"

This is KBs normal personal crusade nothing too weird imo

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:45

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

this is a stickup posted:

##vote tobbs

##vote tobbs

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:45

Asiina: Apr 26, 2011; No going back; Grimey Drawer

chaoslord posted:

So why is it impossible that scum moat skimmed it, saw a lead to a different answer, and posted it? You proved it was misable by skimming. I think it would be an easy thing to do of any alignment. It's a null imo.

Except if he's scum and skimmed it then he would have thought B was the "most correct" answer so why bring that as a possibility? Wouldn't that make him want it more to be A?

If he thought there were just enemies in the cave then A would have been the answer that gets us hurt for not attacking first.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:45

Infinitum: Jul 30, 2004

Moatillata posted:

This is KBs normal personal crusade nothing too weird imo

I am all antilurker as well, I'm just making the comment that this sort of discussion is normally tabled until D2 usually.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:46

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Infinitum posted:

Hello thread,

I am hopped the gently caress up on painkillers, antibiotics, and etc as my foot is now officially doctor certified infected~
Catching up on thread.

If you have any major cases you would like to link to me, please let me know.
Will be here until deadline

D1 Pushes for Lurker Lynches are dumb and bad, and I always put the people who do this firmly in the "Probably Scum" category

"Oh these people are making a good case on my scumbro, better push a lurker lynch"
"Hey guys, I know we can't all agree, lets lynch a lurker today!"

FWIW, I know you are a medicated, but I wasn't pushing the lurker cuddle there. I was providing info for those who were. My post followed other people talking about it, like this one:

Moatillata posted:

Rn I would Lynch sticky or maybe a lurker

I'm always willing to vote one of course, because gently caress lurkers, but just saying.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:47

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Asiina posted:

Cause I think you were trying to play both sides when KB and I were arguing, and because I think that if you're continuing to argue this Moat case even after considering that he provided his own way to be caught then that is bad and scummy.

I don't necessarily blame people who aren't thinking about it too hard and have since checked out since I pointed out it didn't make sense, but you've heard the argument on why it's not a logical case and are continuing to push it.

Okay, so I'm playing both sides on...what, exactly? With a single post I made where I said it was something to watch?

Rather then continuing to argue with Asiina about this, I'll open it up to the group: do you believe I'm completely misguided to be suspicious of precisely this post?

Moatillata posted:

Nothing in the cave except enemies and the boss djinn no reason not to go balls to the wall

Like I said, if I'm the only one who thinks this is scummy, then fine. I'll unvote, which I guess would make me the new vote leader.

If you're going to vote me to be the lynch today, though, at least let me buy a job (since I wasn't going to do that today) and I'll share whatever it gives me.

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:47

Moatillata: Dec 13, 2006; Maintain.

Sticky is not here and he should be

He is scum imo

If I am wrong may the scum team strike me down

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 18, 2024 09:49

sentimental snail: Nov 22, 2007; DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

sorry to hear about your foot friendo

# ? Jan 23, 2017 04:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Final Fantasy 3

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