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Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

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sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah, I mean, we could all switch to black mage and the game could end tonight, rofl.

I mean, we have the numerical advantage over scum. we might win with enough vigs!

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

This inspired me I just pmed cpig to change my job

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

BTW, at a work conference for the next 3 RL days. I'll only be posting at night most likely.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.
Bif if you rolled scum without I will be sore

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.
Skipping past most of the rest of the KB/Asiina fight. Asiina looked scummier in that fight to me, and we've already seen her flip, so it's a null read to me.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Is Asiina being stubborn or scummy?

Like, KB is asking her to back up her claims with literally anything at all, and she refuses.

Like, if Asiina is actually scum I can see her going after KB because he is a strong town player.

Like, if it were me I'd say "That was my perception at the time, but KB is clearly putting effort/thought into this exchange and asking for opinions, which is in line with his normal town play."

This comes off odd to me. I've seen the scum cases where you try and pick off a town player with logic, but it's generally not the "strong" town players you would do that to. You pick someone playing erratically, or having an off day, and make that into a scum tell.

But popping into a back and forth like this and trying to make one side look even worse, without making any real hard alignment calls? That is scummy.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I have an irrational aversion to people calling things "town slapfights"

I had a town slapfight with Max in ferngully mafia and he won as scum in LYLO.

Yes it was traumatizing. As an aside Asiina is posting and posty Asiina is usually not scum Asiina.

Here Tobbs backs off more. Although he does stay consistent and focus on stick for the rest of the day.

jon joe posted:

Okay let me break this down for you, then.

You see this post you quoted?


Your argument is, "Stick-up all over the place and cares only about how he's perceived."

My argument is, "It's a joke post"

This went on for much much too long. I'm not even sure why.

AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Nextly, I wish people would like... converse about the choices before locking them in. I'm worried if we choose A that we'll get attacked and hurt before getting a chance to respond. I'm thinking B or C might be better. Of course we all know D is the real answer here, but it probably won't help us any in game.

Here, I want to say that last game, CPig did whatever the hell he wanted with the events, to the point where trying to extrapolate or discuss them was fruitless busywork. (Equipment being stored in the kitchen, for example). It's not impossible we might be able to figure something out in this game, but I don't think it's tell/problem to just lock in votes.


Time travel to present:

Absurd Revolver posted:

lot to unpack here

probably put together a solid effort case in the morning, but i for one did not pick up a job on day 1

also lol i can't believe i survived that massacre

Why? Why would you not pick a job? They level just by you having one. This is like choosing to be VT over a power role just because. I really don't like this. I was lurker Mclurky and I picked a job!

peramene
Oct 13, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Sara this is what's called setup spec and is mostly useless and is just a good way for scum to look like they're posting content and aren't really doing much. Also I agree with stickup that one scum taking credit for another scums kill makes very little sense.

Thank you for the help as always, you are the best. I thought I had some big genius town read and could lead us to victory. I'll just... get out of the way until the professionals offer more reasonable somethings.

Really don't like BK's claim but survivors are always weird to me. OK goodnight everybody

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

BottleKnight posted:

I'm a 3P Survivor. I had a chance to become light-aligned if I found Desch during the night, but Desch is dead. Just letting everyone know.

When I still had a chance to become good I didn't want to claim, but now that I have no chance, I figure it would be best to just come out and say it.

3P should not be suffered to live

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Kashuno posted:

3P should not be suffered to live

neither should you if you don't make with the black mage deets

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Moatillata posted:

Effort case?? :allears:


I feel like we should mass claim at this point and the game may be solveable? What are your thoughts?

How is mass-claiming anything but egregiously anti-town?

1. It will allow scum to easily pick off their targets with their N2 vig spree.
2. Scum have what, 5 options for fake-claiming other roles?

Bifauxnen posted:

I doubt it would be solvable, cause anyone could've freely chosen anything. I was hoping maybe later on we could press people under suspicion to quickly explain their whole backstory of job choices and use that as a way to judge how sincere and forthcoming they are, but who knows if we'll even have a D3 at this rate, bloody hell

What do you mean by having people explain their job choices? Everyone but scum is basically choosing blind.

Everyone is a power role, yeah? And since everyone who is town can have any role, claiming the role that was chosen, even under pressure, (or pushing for claims) only hurts town, because obviously duplicate or triplicate roles are a possibility.

I really, really dislike both these posts. They're ignoring the mechanics of the game we're playing and advocating for town to out the jobs they picked. It allows scum to solve the game.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Bifauxnen posted:

neither should you if you don't make with the black mage deets

I thought I was clear I got a 1 shot vig and killed asiina, the person I said was scum over and over.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Moatillata posted:

Effort case?? :allears:


I feel like we should mass claim at this point and the game may be solveable? What are your thoughts?

This is a scum post if I have ever seen one. Like..you're legit telling me DAY 2 after FOUR TOWN DIE we should mass claim? Christ it's so bad you have me agreeing with Tobbs.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Tobbs actually presents a hella good read on Moat and Bif. The only way you can judge players "based on their job choice' is to know what the jobs do ahead of time. Possible major slip. Otoh you can generally discern what your job would do just based on the job right? White mage is probably a doc. Thief probably steals CP. Black mage kills. The other 3 are a bit harder to discern tho.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Kashuno posted:

Tobbs actually presents a hella good read on Moat and Bif. The only way you can judge players "based on their job choice' is to know what the jobs do ahead of time. Possible major slip. Otoh you can generally discern what your job would do just based on the job right? White mage is probably a doc. Thief probably steals CP. Black mage kills. The other 3 are a bit harder to discern tho.

That would be my guess (for those jobs).

But if you're town and you have any of those roles, is it remotely helpful to claim them, even under pressure?

No, because:

1. Scum know all the jobs and can fakeclaim anything.
2. Any role can be duplicated or lied about by anyone (except town with regard to lying).

This, pretty obviously, should be a claimless game. Everyone should pick whatever role they want, never crumb it, and only come out if they have a useful result. Otherwise scum can game solve.

Moat, and to a lesser extent Bif are advocating claims, which based on the mechanics of the game, helps scum and hurts town.

I'm just repeating myself here, but based on the setup I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting the game correctly and would very much like nobody to claim anything, ever, because there were 4 deaths and we can't afford to make any mistakes.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

That would be my guess (for those jobs).

But if you're town and you have any of those roles, is it remotely helpful to claim them, even under pressure?

No, because:

1. Scum know all the jobs and can fakeclaim anything.
2. Any role can be duplicated or lied about by anyone (except town with regard to lying).

This, pretty obviously, should be a claimless game. Everyone should pick whatever role they want, never crumb it, and only come out if they have a useful result. Otherwise scum can game solve.

Moat, and to a lesser extent Bif are advocating claims, which based on the mechanics of the game, helps scum and hurts town.

I'm just repeating myself here, but based on the setup I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting the game correctly and would very much like nobody to claim anything, ever, because there were 4 deaths and we can't afford to make any mistakes.

:agreed:

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

King Burgundy posted:

I can confirm that one of the roles provides protection. I'm fine claiming if we wanna go that route.

Scum already know what all the roles do, so maybe it's worth sharing?

KB: I am a protective role, and I think optimal play is to tell everyone that.

First off, even if you're telling the truth, being a protective role doesn't make you town. Why? Because potentially every player can have a night kill. If scum doesn't have a doctor then they could be in trouble.

You know how this post reads to me?

"I'm a scum player who doesn't want to be targeted by a town vig, so I'm going to claim a protective role."

Does anyone else think a town protective role would never, ever do this?

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer

IllegallySober posted:

I'll be back in the morning. To be honest I'm irritated enough at the setup at the moment that I'm not in the right frame of mind for this.

This reads to me as fake outrage.

The "to be honest" is what sells it.

##vote IS

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

jon joe posted:

This reads to me as fake outrage.

The "to be honest" is what sells it.

##vote IS

Nah I don't think so tbh.

Mr. F!
Sep 21, 2016

I got RB'd last night, at least my spell failed

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

jon joe posted:

This reads to me as fake outrage.

The "to be honest" is what sells it.

##vote IS

Of yesterday's lynch candidates I am leaning more towards Moat (ILU MOTE) being scum. I was really, really hoping that the vote would swing back towards him, but that didn't happen.

King Burgundy posted:

Ok, 8 minutes.

##vote IS

In fact, KB tossed out the vote putting IS two votes ahead of Moat (instead of tying them). I know, making alignment calls on unflipped players is atrocious, but KB's vote stood out to me for a couple reasons.


King Burgundy posted:

Naw, she really didn't have any valid point even after I accounted for that. It just doesn't make sense without additional information/insight. Like for that pairing to make sense, there is a missing piece. Like really, for it to work, she'd have to be saying that I always drag the game out of joke phase. And that is not something I do on the regular. It's just impossible for me to have been trying hard during joke phase without participating in it. It's not like I can exist in my own bubble without interacting with others.

When I looked back at my games to prove her wrong I confirmed that I wasn't missing anything in regards to that. I won't reiterate what I found here.

I still think what she was saying seems made up, and it seemed to me like she was shifting her opinion to respond.

I'm waffling a bit now because I somewhat agree with what she's been saying on claiming and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a scum place.

So, what did Asiina say about claiming?

Asiina posted:

How?

Scum already know what the jobs do.

Yeah if everyone claims it'll be bad, but I don't see how a few people claiming does anything other than help others make informed decisions, especially since I don't think "check an FAQ" is going to be as useful as you think.

I picked Red Mage because Red Mages are typically really good early game and poo poo late game. My level 1 power is that it counts as both martial and magical, so when I pick a new job later the CP cost will be whatever is more favourable. This is a borderline useless power and completely opposite of what I thought it would be considering the role RMs have in FF games.

I would suggest other people if they haven't picked yet pick something else. Maybe it will be good on D3 when I get my Level 2 power, but I'm likely not going to wait that long.

I already asked CPig if we could change more than once per day because honestly I'd spend all my CP just going through as many jobs as I could and then announce the level 1 powers, but he said 1 per day.

She was for it, and KB was agreeing with her. Now, we know that Asiina was town, but I think her view on claiming is either misguided, or she really, really didn't like whatever the Red Mage did and that was coloring her opinion.

However, KB keeps up with the suggestion that we claim, as he decided to claim protective role D2, possibly to start a chain of claims?

Moat is also very pro-claiming. I don't like it. It stinks. I feel like KB and Moat should know better, and while KB is trying to be subtle and Moat is being bold, the end result is that these guys want all the info out there so that scum can target town effectively.

I would be comfortable voting KB or Moat today, though I'd like to hear their responses first. KB mentioned he'd only be able to post in the evenings for the next 3 days, and I imagine Moat will respond eventually.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

Tobbs getting a taste of the moat brand of boldness

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.
Really my main issue is we have two people jump up and claim the kills

We have 2 unclaimed. This does not sit well with me. I explained this after I was trying to get everyone's opinion on claiming

I am seeing your KB idea but really you're barking up the wrong tree with me

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Moatillata posted:

Really my main issue is we have two people jump up and claim the kills

We have 2 unclaimed. This does not sit well with me. I explained this after I was trying to get everyone's opinion on claiming

I am seeing your KB idea but really you're barking up the wrong tree with me

Did you not read the part where scum know what every role is and can fake-claim anything? Also, with the jobs system people can change their roles on the fly.

The only effect claiming has will be to let scum know who to target at night. Are you really not seeing this?

As for Kash/stickup (IIRC those were the claimed vigs), claiming their actions is pretty bold. They both apparently have another vig tonight, and hopefully they'll choose scum as targets. Now that they're outed (and 4 townies are dead) they have a better shot at hitting scum.

Unless all the black mages are scum. In that case they can just roll town and there's really nothing we can do about it. This is also why I find it hard to believe IS's outrage is faked. A setup where every scum player can kill two nights in a row and town is flying blind with regard to roles is about as bastard as a setup can get. We already may never recover from N1.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I think Moat is town because he is really not being careful with his words

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Moatillata posted:

Really my main issue is we have two people jump up and claim the kills

We have 2 unclaimed. This does not sit well with me. I explained this after I was trying to get everyone's opinion on claiming

I am seeing your KB idea but really you're barking up the wrong tree with me

Also, is your argument for a mass claim that the scum team is going to out themselves?

"drat, Moat got us, time to claim that we are scum-aligned black mages."

Come on Moat...I love you man but...really?

[i]Really?]/]

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Also, is your argument for a mass claim that the scum team is going to out themselves?

"drat, Moat got us, time to claim that we are scum-aligned black mages."

Come on Moat...I love you man but...really?

[i]Really?]/i]

Mafia edit. (who fucks up italics? Tobbs. Tobbs fucks up italics.)

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Also, is your argument for a mass claim that the scum team is going to out themselves?

"drat, Moat got us, time to claim that we are scum-aligned black mages."

Come on Moat...I love you man but...really?

Really?

omg

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I do not think it is Moat.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
He gave scum an easy out to towniness, which to me implies he isn't really thinking hard about what he says before he says it. That's a town move.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.

Kashuno posted:

He gave scum an easy out to towniness, which to me implies he isn't really thinking hard about what he says before he says it. That's a town move.

I appreciate it kash but that's p much me all the time

Really everyone should just grab BM and vig your own personal scumspects

:getin:

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.
I mean this is like an interesting experiment since everyone can be avig

Would town win by sheer numbers?

I wanna find out

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Kashuno posted:

He gave scum an easy out to towniness, which to me implies he isn't really thinking hard about what he says before he says it. That's a town move.

I don't really see picking the black mage, killing a townie, and claiming it as the towniest of deeds.

Really, all scum has to do is kill someone and have a reasonable reason for it. If so, they can claim it freely as a town vig that just happened to hit the wrong, but scummy, target.

I didn't really read Asiina and Infinitum as being very scummy. Like, the top scumspects for D1 were obviously Moat and IS. We had information on who was voting them, and their flips would have given us information.

But nobody killed the previous day's vote leaders after a no-lynch, so we have zero information.

How, exactly, is that pro-town? I've seen stickup (as town), for example, murder a player with a daykill because we were about to no-lynch. And now, on N1, he picks neither a vote leader nor the person he himself was voting for and kills them.

Yes, you can justify your vigs as hitting a player you say you thought was scummy, but all the kills were zero-info kills.

Also, you both claimed vig right away (and someone has apparently been roleblocked). Why claim before we had more information? Now if you are town, you're almost certainly going to be blocked N2.

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
vote people who make scummy posts imo

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Moatillata posted:

I mean this is like an interesting experiment since everyone can be avig

Would town win by sheer numbers?

I wanna find out

No. Scum already know who scum are so their targets would be significantly reduced. Town would have a much higher chance of hitting town than scum, or overlapping kills. This is a bad plan.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I don't really see picking the black mage, killing a townie, and claiming it as the towniest of deeds.

Really, all scum has to do is kill someone and have a reasonable reason for it. If so, they can claim it freely as a town vig that just happened to hit the wrong, but scummy, target.

I didn't really read Asiina and Infinitum as being very scummy. Like, the top scumspects for D1 were obviously Moat and IS. We had information on who was voting them, and their flips would have given us information.

But nobody killed the previous day's vote leaders after a no-lynch, so we have zero information.

How, exactly, is that pro-town? I've seen stickup (as town), for example, murder a player with a daykill because we were about to no-lynch. And now, on N1, he picks neither a vote leader nor the person he himself was voting for and kills them.

Yes, you can justify your vigs as hitting a player you say you thought was scummy, but all the kills were zero-info kills.

Also, you both claimed vig right away (and someone has apparently been roleblocked). Why claim before we had more information? Now if you are town, you're almost certainly going to be blocked N2.

the fact that no one killed the lynch leaders is telling, fyi. Lack of a d1 lynch and lack of supposed town vigs not killing the lynch leaders leads me to believe that 2-3 of the vigs were used by scum. I realize that puts me under heavy suspicion, but I will freely admit I didn't have a chance to read much of d1 and shot who I personally thought was scum. I'll have to go reread, but if there are vigs that spoke a lot during d1 but didn't vig top lynch targets, I'd make a strong case for them being scum.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I also strongly believe a lynch leader was scum. At least one of them.

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008


Wedge Regret
i didn't pick one because i wanted to wait for a better job before spending CP, isn't that how the system works?

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

A Winner is you!
The Warriors travel back to Kazus to thank whoever loaned them the airship. They were told, however, that Cid had died during the night. He did leave the airship to the light warriors and also instructions on how to build a drill to the front of the ship to escape the valley by drilling through the Giant boulder blocking the way out.

They have Refia's Father, the smith Takka, build the drill out of mythril and help attach it to the airship and set off!

After they drill through the boulder the airship explodes!

The Light Warriors, now on foot, Head to the city of Canaan. There they decide to check in on Mrs. Cid, and sadly she too has passed.

With heavy hearts the Heroes ask around town about the water crystal and learn that there is a Water Shrine to the southwest but first the gnome village of Tozus must be passed through since the airship was destroyed. In order to do that they will need the Mini spell which is said to be held by the wandering bard Desch.

The group meets Salina, who tells them she is searching for her love Desch who was seen going up Dragon's Peak.

The Warriors head up Dragon's Peak, suddenly, they see a huge shadow and hear a roar.


A. Run and Hide
B. Face The Attacker
C. Use the saved up Magic items you didn't use against the Turtle
D. Understand that none of your choices matter and life is a pointless waste of time and succumb the the great beast that comes to devour your insignificant body.

You have until 4PM Eastern.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
where is the "leave because Desch is dead" option

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
I'm thinking either A or C here

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Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon's_Peak

Dragon's Peak, also known as the Road to the Summit, is a location from Final Fantasy III found just to the east of Canaan. Bahamut is first encountered here, but is impossible to defeat at this stage. Once the Warriors of the Light rescue Desch from becoming the meal of Bahamut's offspring, and themselves in the process via jumping off Bahamut's nest, the Warriors can never climb the mountain to the summit again once they return here via ship or airship, at least in the Famicom version.

Since Bahamut is impossible to defeat, I suggest we not use Magic items on him (they'd just be wasted).

Leaning A.

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