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so ya I'm lvl 3 blm and I have the ability to pop off another vig with ice, but I think it's probably ill advised to do so.
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Jan 25, 2017 13:50
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so since I am here alone and angry about dumb game poo poo I will analyze the votes on me
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Jan 25, 2017 14:02
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IllegallySober posted:I don't know what to think about this game. This is a hilariously dumb case. The thing about this setup is claiming a protective role doesn't matter because you can swap daily. Claiming the vig is pro TOWN imo because it's admitting the kill so there is no confusion on the source. It definitely doesn't clear me or moat as town though. I think it's smart for town to get their actions out there if they are killing roles, and neutral if they are protective roles. I honestly am unsure if I will vig tonight or swap jobs. I want to see what the next crystal jobs are before I decide to hold. It seems pretty irresponsible at this point to vig so idk if it's worth waiting for lvl5 which will probably be yet another vig because blm doesn't do anything else.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:06
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Mithross posted:Kashuno has made two alignment calls: Kashuno posted:He gave scum an easy out to towniness, which to me implies he isn't really thinking hard about what he says before he says it. That's a town move.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:08
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FWIW I think IS's vote is stupid but comes from a town mindset. I think Mithross is jumping on something that he thinks will gain momentum and lynch a townie. I will have to reread all of Mithross to see if I think he's scum, but my immediate reaction is yes.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:09
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King Burgundy posted:I didn't, but I honestly don't see the harm and I'm tired of dancing around it. Since you've decided to claim doctor, mind telling us who you protected N1 and why? Also, wouldn't you be suspicious of someone claiming a protective role? If they are scum, they would likely do that in order to draw a town protective visit, not having to worry about night kills. King Burgundy posted:Still not done reading but, no. I'm probably in no danger. Depending on what all the other roles do. If I shared the info, maybe other people could also not die. I'm torn on if you are just being yourself, or if this is a scum push. Oh, I see, you've already covered that angle. I just finished a game with a claimed cop and two doctors. Neither doctor protected the cop and he died. But you're completely unworried about having a protective role and being night-killed. Why? Oh, and I wasn't hounding Asiina post-mortem. You said you agreed with her position on claiming, so I needed to quote her to provide context. She was okay with claiming because she said Red Mage sucked. I think you didn't want to bring up claims yourself because you are scum and you know it helps you. Rather, you latch onto town players who suggest it as a way to push the issue. Also, think a bit further ahead. You and Bif strongly suggest switching between Wind Crystal jobs. Won't that make it less likely that we'll have enough CP for subsequent, possibly more powerful jobs? I will tell you freely that I'm not going to waste my CP switching now. I'll get a new job every time a new crystal opens, because I assume that they'll have "better" roles. So that's really two strikes against your idea. 1. You don't acknowledge the advantage scum gains by knowing which roles to target each night. 2. You don't acknowledge the disadvantage from switching between Wind Crystal jobs, rather than waiting for potentially more powerful jobs. I want to have as much personal capability as possible, as well as as much town diversity as possible. Why? Because if the scum team has to worry about potentially every role being in play, and not knowing who can do what, they will have a tough game.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:38
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Please remember you can literally swap jobs daily
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Jan 25, 2017 14:42
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also idk about you guys but I have WAY more than enough CP to swap jobs a few times
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Jan 25, 2017 14:42
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Like Tobbs I get your thinking, but I think you're trying to tie the setup to the claiming and I don't think that's an especially strong case.
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Jan 25, 2017 14:43
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Kashuno posted:Please remember you can literally swap jobs daily Kashuno posted:also idk about you guys but I have WAY more than enough CP to swap jobs a few times Right. And if you reach level 5 in your current job, it will cost 10+5 CP to get a fire crystal job. Keep that in mind. As well as the fact that thieves steal CP, which could lock you out of the Fire Crystal jobs. Even the level 3 people need to spend 8 CP to switch. So if you have a level 3 town player they have 25 points (10 + 10 + 10 -5), and would go down to 17 from switching. Not to mention they'd never get whatever their level 5 ability is (the one that can probably be used by spending CP after changing jobs). Am I the only one who thinks it's a better idea to reach level 5 in a job, then switch to a new job from a better crystal, effectively making me a dual power role? I guess so. This isn't setup spec or anything, it's Math. Since scum know every job, they've probably planned out their job paths. Switching now ensures that scum will always be a step ahead. Besides, if we believe that both you and Stickup are town, there were at most two scum kills last night. 4 town deaths sucks royally, but it's entirely possible that scum is playing a longer game and had other roles in their repertoire in order to provide diversity.
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Jan 25, 2017 15:10
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You should be willing to swap jobs based on the current game state not just getting to lvl5 I don't really have an interest in getting yet another vig so I will probs swap
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Jan 25, 2017 15:16
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Vote Kash for not keeping a tidy inbox and then blaming our glorious mod sent from heaven to make us suffer for our very many sins
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Jan 25, 2017 16:03
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Jan 25, 2017 16:06
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Kashuno posted:You should be willing to swap jobs based on the current game state not just getting to lvl5 I don't really have an interest in getting yet another vig so I will probs swap The current game state is that scum can also change their jobs. Do we want to play catch-up, or see what's in the other tiers? I have no idea what kinds of roles CPig has made, especially with vig and doc being cheap and easily accessible. If those are the weakest roles in the game, we'd best be prepared for when scum reaches the next tier. If scum have 4 night kills every night, the game will be over quickly regardless of whether or not we try to coordinate. All it takes is scum saying they picked White mage, getting town to heal them, and vigging any player that falls for it.
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Jan 25, 2017 16:35
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Eh. The more I think about things the more I think this setup is just busted. Scum know every ability of every job beforehand, so they know what town power roles are out there and what the best course of action is every night. I don't think as town it matters what we do for power roles, I think it is important to just lynch them. I could see a case for KB but not based on claims.
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Jan 25, 2017 16:55
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Kashuno posted:Eh. The more I think about things the more I think this setup is just busted. Scum know every ability of every job beforehand, so they know what town power roles are out there and what the best course of action is every night. I don't think as town it matters what we do for power roles, I think it is important to just lynch them. Regarding the bolded above- how exactly do these two statements correlate? Knowing what all the jobs do doesn't translate to knowing what roles town has unless we're dumb enough to claim them. If you're saying it means they know what roles would be best for town to have, this is true- but again, that isn't going to matter much for us in the long run because it's not something we can control. We can make guesses but presumably the most powerful roles would be either Level 5 jobs or later crystal jobs and I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out. I will agree with you that this setup seems busted for a few different reasons, but the reason you're citing isn't one of them.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:18
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Sorry I should've been clearer. They know the possibilities town has for power roles that are out there.
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Jan 25, 2017 18:20
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Using their newly acquired Mini spell the group travels through the Tozus Tunnel and make their way to Viking's Cove. There they learn the water dragon Nepto has gone crazy attacking the Vikings ships. Travelling into Nepto's Shrine and with the aid of their new mini spell The Warriors learn that Nepto became enraged when a rat stole the jewel in the eye of the dragon's statue. After helping the vikings find peace again they allow the Warriors to take the Ship Enterprise. With their way now clear they visit the Village of the Ancients and learn that their world is simply a continent floating above the true surface world, and that it is in danger, A powerful wizard named Xande is threatening the tower of owen and trying to destroy the floating continent! The Warriors enter the tower, but something seems, different, wrong somehow as if their world has changed through untimely deaths.... At the top of the tower a servant of Xande , the powerful Medusa looms, and She has absorbed the power of the fire crystal! Quick take action! A.) Use your stored magic items you still have saved. B.) Attack the beast! C.) Run away and return when you have grinded out a few more levels. D.) Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed You have until 5pm Eastern to do the thing.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:02
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Crystal we found in first event was probably Arctic Winds. Medusa is weak to ice. Medusa is extremely difficult. A
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Jan 25, 2017 19:12
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I think A is the way to go too
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Jan 25, 2017 19:13
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C COULD be an option but eh.. I like to kill.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKCU5ll3D0 A
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Jan 25, 2017 19:15
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A I have a different fire and ice reference that king b and bif may remember
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Jan 25, 2017 19:24
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Normally I'd say let's talk about it but since so many people have locked in already, I don't think it makes a lot of difference. Option A
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Jan 25, 2017 19:40
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The guide says to grind before facing her since she's so difficult. However, I think that A might be a trump card that keeps scum from getting CP if used at the right time. Agree with Kash, AC good BD bad.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:44
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IllegallySober posted:Normally I'd say let's talk about it but since so many people have locked in already, I don't think it makes a lot of difference. 3 out of 15?
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Jan 25, 2017 19:44
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this is a stickup posted:3 out of 15? I thought there were fewer of us left to vote than that. My fault, was checking on break at work. Either way, my reasoning was: D is a joke option. B I don't think is correct- we've simply attacked before and in my experience with Pig's games the correct option is rarely repeated so soon. C isn't terrible on the surface but seems too similar to just running away. I think it could be one of the two correct choices, though.
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Jan 25, 2017 19:52
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A
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Jan 25, 2017 19:59
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IllegallySober posted:Normally I'd say let's talk about it but since so many people have locked in already, I don't think it makes a lot of difference. Weird hand-wringing here.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:24
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yeah A must be it, fire monster gets killed with ice, pretty obviousKashuno posted:Weird hand-wringing here.  Not sure if I'd rather vote IS over Tobbs though, but that's a long rant for the next post
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Jan 25, 2017 20:30
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Also, think a bit further ahead. You and Bif strongly suggest switching between Wind Crystal jobs. Won't that make it less likely that we'll have enough CP for subsequent, possibly more powerful jobs? I will tell you freely that I'm not going to waste my CP switching now. I'll get a new job every time a new crystal opens, because I assume that they'll have "better" roles. Doesn't this make it all the more important to know what the jobs actually DO? If someone was convinced by Asiina's claim to avoid picking Red Mage, for instance, they wouldn't have to swap out once they find out a different job is better. I'm not sure what you're even railing against anymore, before it was against claiming, now it's just against switching. But having just a few people claim should help prevent excessive switching. It seems like you just wanna rant at me and KB on any topic whatsoever so you keep shifting the goalposts. Hell, I'm surprised that you bothered to write all this poo poo but never replied to the stuff I wrote when I voted you, about what you said was an "okay way to claim". No clarifications or righteous town anger at being misunderstood? Or are you hoping to play it scum cool and it'll just blow over if you don't overreact? Speaking of writing all this poo poo: Tobbs Gnawed posted:Right. And if you reach level 5 in your current job, it will cost 10+5 CP to get a fire crystal job. Keep that in mind. As well as the fact that thieves steal CP, which could lock you out of the Fire Crystal jobs. For someone who was being so obtuse and clueless about the most basic implications of this setup, like the need for town to gain some information, and the reduced impact of one single person claiming a protective role, you seem to be nerding out way hard all of a sudden over these exact math details. Like, I am miss spreadsheet who loves to analyze this kind of poo poo usually, but even I haven't bothered touching it cause all I saw was "wind role = 5 CP" when I've got plenty of CP to cover a few changes if I wanted, and who the hell knows if anyone's gonna live long enough to afford more poo poo. But maybe you're more concerned about it cause you don't have as many points to spend for some reason! (hint: the reason is cause scum have not been awarded as many points)
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Jan 25, 2017 20:31
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Kashuno posted:Weird hand-wringing here. Oh, gently caress off already. If you look like three posts up I explained my mistake and provided my reasoning why I was going to vote that option anyway.
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Jan 25, 2017 20:51
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Bifauxnen posted:Doesn't this make it all the more important to know what the jobs actually DO? If someone was convinced by Asiina's claim to avoid picking Red Mage, for instance, they wouldn't have to swap out once they find out a different job is better. I'm not sure what you're even railing against anymore, before it was against claiming, now it's just against switching. But having just a few people claim should help prevent excessive switching. It seems like you just wanna rant at me and KB on any topic whatsoever so you keep shifting the goalposts. Hell, I'm surprised that you bothered to write all this poo poo but never replied to the stuff I wrote when I voted you, about what you said was an "okay way to claim". No clarifications or righteous town anger at being misunderstood? Or are you hoping to play it scum cool and it'll just blow over if you don't overreact? I'll try to address the bolded parts, which I think are important. wouldn't have to swap out once they find out a different job is better having just a few people claim should help prevent excessive switching "wind role = 5 CP" when I've got plenty of CP to cover a few changes There are a couple advantages to town not swapping roles within the same tier constantly. 1. Based on the claims that we have, it looks like level 1 and level 3 are 1-shot abilities. If a job reaches level 5, it will probably give an ability that isn't 1-shot. Per the OP, those abilities can be used for the rest of the game by spending CP, even if you switch your job. CapitalistPig posted:One last note about jobs, You will be able to use the powers of all previously attained jobs by spending Capacity points to do so. Skill level 1 powers cost 10 CP, level 3 powers cost 15 CP, and Level 5 powers cost 20 CP. You have to have attained that skill level at the previous job though, you will also not be able to spend CP on powers from previous classes if the ability is X-Shot and you have used it up already. 2. Claiming power roles gives scum major advantages. They know what capabilities each power role has, and what they will allow players to most effectively evolve into later. 3. Changing jobs between affinities can be prohibitively expensive, as illustrated in the OP. CapitalistPig posted:Affinity: So, if you're a level 3 warrior it would cost 5CP (base) +3CP(Skill) +10CP(affinity penalty) for a total of 18CP. Also, you'll never get to use whatever the level 5 ability is if you need it later (assuming that skill levels 1 and 3 are 1-shot). Do you still have plenty of CP to spend changing jobs? Tobbs Gnawed posted:I think it was Bif who suggested claiming if you're as good as dead and at -1. There's no chance it can save you, given that scum can fakeclaim any role. I'm not sure what to tell you here. If people want to claim at -1, it's fine because it shouldn't get anyone out of a lynch. If someone claims something at -1 and suddenly people are unvoting them, I'd find it incredibly suspicious. Really, claiming at -1 is the only time someone should be talking about roles that they have. For the record, here's what you said before you started tunneling me. Bifauxnen posted:We're in new territory here since FF1 and FF2 had set roles, instead of people choosing for themselves. Does this contrast with your present statement, "the need for town to gain some information"? Bifauxnen posted:Also, anyone right about to be lynched could obviously just fullclaim whatever they know on the way out. Is it super surprising that I'd find your position, up to that point, reasonable? Before you started voting and casing me, you completely agreed with me. Bifauxnen posted:##vote Tobbs Based on this post from D1 (in conjunction with his "softclaim" at the beginning of D2),, I already assumed that KB could protect at level 1 King Burgundy posted:Yeah, I mean, I guess we could just level up, do the story and get jobs. With no night kill there isn't really any kind of ticking clock. I guess my best response to your case/vote on me...is to agree with you? Bifauxnen posted:I don't think having people claim too early is a good idea, especially if it's just to report what each job gets. Whatever we can report now wouldn't help people figure out how good the later abilities are, or how well an early job goes transitioning to a later job. People should probably just look up an ff3 gamefaq to get a vague idea of which role does what, and plot out a gameplan for themselves. I apologize for quoting the same post twice. I just find it odd that once I started casing KB, you jumped on me and pushed me despite earlier expressing the very same opinions you're asking me to explain/defend now. It's almost like your opinions are completely fabricated to push a lynch on a player that is casing your scumbro. I'm wrong, aren't I? Surely you're town and wouldn't do something so obvious, right? I expect people's opinions to evolve organically, or at least for them to remember the opinions that they were pretending to hold earlier.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:17
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feeling too lazy to quote all those bits between other quotes so let me just sum up Tobbs, on D1 I thought it would be better to just hold our horses and do those few claims on D2 so scum don't have a clue during the night who picked what. But then we woke up to 4 people dead and it seemed a bit dumb in retrospect to keep waiting around.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:24
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Tobbs doing dumb setup spec confirmed town.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:25
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Bifauxnen posted:feeling too lazy to quote all those bits between other quotes so let me just sum up Tobbs, on D1 I thought it would be better to just hold our horses and do those few claims on D2 so scum don't have a clue during the night who picked what. But then we woke up to 4 people dead and it seemed a bit dumb in retrospect to keep waiting around. in fact, looking back over your big post I see you quoted so many of my posts, but didn't quote the part where I mentioned waiting till D2.... trying to make me look more erratic by cutting out the very point where you can see my views "evolving organically"? Bifauxnen posted:Anyway, this exercise has got me thinking that Asiina has a bit of a point that revealing some mechanics could be helpful, so town can get a better understanding of how this poo poo works. But if we're locked in to only 1 change per day, and it's probably too late for most people now anyway, I don't see any point to it right now. It could at least wait till D2 so scum wouldn't have any idea of who's better to target tonight. Then tomorrow, just a few people who feel safe doing so could confirm some details in the morning, before people make their choices for D2 of whether they wanna switch jobs or not.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:30
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in fact, look at that, he did quote that post! But only the last line about fullclaiming, and not the bit about seeing Asiina's point but waiting till D2! You went right past it, buddy!
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Jan 25, 2017 21:40
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Bifauxnen posted:feeling too lazy to quote all those bits between other quotes so let me just sum up Tobbs, on D1 I thought it would be better to just hold our horses and do those few claims on D2 so scum don't have a clue during the night who picked what. But then we woke up to 4 people dead and it seemed a bit dumb in retrospect to keep waiting around. The other thing to consider is that nobody has a level 5 ability, or knows how strong they might be. Claiming your job gives scum exactly how many CP you have, what power role you have and may receive at level 5, and what roles you will or will not be able to switch to later (based on inflated affinity cost), all of which greatly simplify their ability to pick targets and wipe out players who will soon become dangerous. Do you think it's worth all of that to claim on D2, when you don't even know the level 5 ability? I'm all about compromise, but depending on how useful my level 5 ability is, I may or may not claim it once I switch to the next tier. I might decide that it's so useful I don't want scum to know I could, at any time, use it. However, if I don't like the level 5 ability and am never planning to use it, I might reveal it once I switch. The only reason I might not, for example, is that if I claim that I started as a White Mage, for example, they will know that my next class is either Magic or Warrior (unless I want to waste 10CP switching to agility). Lastly, if I were scum, I would absolutely want one of each class to claim. They would go in a spreadsheet, and I'd know exactly what is possible for that player to do now, as well as a day or two ahead. I'd have fun with it. So far only 3 living players have claimed. If scum have a spreadsheet, it's got to be mostly empty. Let's keep it that way, huh?
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Jan 25, 2017 21:41
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Tobbs who is scum
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Jan 25, 2017 21:43
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I know people like to throw around "misrepresenting" a lot when someone vaguely misinterprets something they said, but this is like one of the clearest examples of it literally happening. He literally quoted a post where I worked through a changing opinion and cut out nearly all of it, then complained that my views weren't evolving organically. I mean what the gently caress.
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Jan 25, 2017 21:46
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