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peramene posted:Bif, if you're scum, you've played a hell of a game. ##vote jon joe. I've gone back and forth on Bif, mentally, a few times. Lots of setup spec, but I remember the same from the last game, and too many of the questions seemed like actual questions, not like a scum asking questions they already knew they answer to (since excessive job knowledge would be a scum tell). I even was about 90% sure I saw a scum tell, but after thinking and rereading I decided it was just an awkward question. We haven't seen a lot of big casing, but we have seen plenty of alignment calls and solid opinions. Bif is town. Jon Joe I could see as scum.
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Jan 27, 2017 22:26
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Mithross posted:Jon Joe I could see as scum. Okay, I'm going to ask you to back this one up
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Jan 27, 2017 22:31
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B
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Jan 27, 2017 22:43
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B Bif isn't scum and tbh I have not really read much of JJ. I still wanna kill pera
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Jan 27, 2017 22:50
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I think we've already used the Mini spell in the story, correct? Pig's not usually one to repeat ideas. In this case I like C better, I think. Option C
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Jan 27, 2017 22:57
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"it's cliche" is a terrible reason to not pick something and it sounds terribly easy to get stepped on by casting a spell called mini!
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Jan 27, 2017 23:26
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B
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Jan 27, 2017 23:34
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jon joe posted:Okay, I'm going to ask you to back this one up Not ignoring you, I was headed out the door to work when you posted. Currently phone posting from a walk in fridge. Tonight when I get home I'll do a case.
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Jan 27, 2017 23:34
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Everyone else is bolding, so I should too. D ,Definitely D, Definately.
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Jan 28, 2017 00:50
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That was a compliment intended for Bif. I don't think jon joe is playing well assuming either alignment's best interests to the best of my knowledge. Neither is BK, but duh. He's not here in the first and he's waiting to see if he lives long enough to pick a side, a decision he now largely has no control over. Mith and I apparently went thief D1 for similar reasons and while it wasn't my thought at the time, I agree that it seems to be an odd scum choice. But does it necessarily mean town? No. But it does mean one of these situations is true: a) I knew that IS had had CP stolen from him because I did it myself because I thought he might be scum and could maybe be a hero by taking 5 critical CP from scum (sorry buddy). b) I knew that IS had had CP stolen from him because I'm in a scumdoc with the thief what took it from him. c) I am in a scumdoc with IS, and we are both lying. d) I am scum, lying, and got lucky as gently caress. (Hardly worth including, scumSara would never take a risk like this.) So I'm not willing to support the notion that claiming responsibility for stolen CP is conclusive proof of a D1 thief pick nor is it an especially not-scummy choice, especially because scum have full knowledge of the job's abilities and town doesn't, but town is generating CP faster. Not by much, but a thief could supplement earlygame CP by 5 a night and take 5 from a target they know is at least not scum. One other consideration: if scum needs exactly X CP to pull off their ability for the night, and that's exactly what they have, their ability would fail if a thief stole from them that night - assuming night actions happen simultaneously, Diplomacy style. Otherwise, that's just another assumption I've made and fine whatever ignore me. Switching my thought process to BMs, I feel the obvious D1 scum choice with what we know now was BM. They know they get those kills, especially if it doesn't cost CP after all to use abilities in your current job. If it's one-shot, the obvious scum thing to do in retrospect is grab four BMs and blow the poo poo out of the best town players, becoming 3rd level BMs and gaining access to a second vig? that remains usable, if a smidge more expensive late?. Moat says monks can redirect n1 attacks against themselves. If I were scum and had prior knowledge of this, I would be wary of it, but the best night to shotgun town for kills and/or info is night 1. Scum profits from identifying what job an individual is in. There's tons of reasons to just go day1 BM blast. Maybe there's something even smarter to do and it was only three of them blasting and then Kash being Kash. I dunno. AT LEAST two of those BMs were scum. Right? So if I'm thinking Kash is just being Kash; I end up suspicious of stickup coming out second. As a scum BM, I would want to do exactly what he did, in theory. Wait for somebody else to claim, then tell the truth: that I, too, killed a townie I was suspicious of. Then I would wait for somebody to question me, and I would tell town what else I can do now - which actually doesn't give away any additional information on d2 and only on d2, because we could all do tons of stuff during d2. So article A&B. Later, because of the way he was going sooo hard on chaos, it actually inspired me to investigate chaos and then he turned right to me, immediately. To reiterate: stickup pushing chaos so hard alongside chaos' refusal to just answer the loving question is what inspired me in the first place to focus so hard on chaos' CP. I legitimately thought we had him dead to rights. I was wrong. A lot of us were wrong about rule things today. Hopefully we cool now. Article C. But then stickup tells chaos to kill me at night instead, y'know, jokingly. But after I had just loving pointed out that as scum well knows, these jobs have abilities that gently caress poo poo up. If chaos shoots BK, scum are mildly inconvenienced but knowing BK, he'd probably try to help town win anyway, wouldn't he? If chaos shoots BK but somebody somehow protects him or is a lightning rod or whatever, scum are happy and/or fine with that whether or not it's actually BK or another townie that dies. If chaos shoots me, even if you accept the premise for a moment that I am scum but something, anything anybody could do to save me and end up killing a townie - my scumbuddies and I would want exactly that, right? And we would/could have the knowledge of how to do it. We deflect the kill away from me at least - could potentially redirect that shot to a real night target instead, or at best, a random target. Article loving D. To deny that this is a possibility in the slightest is scummy as poo poo. To call it "wild speculation" to discredit it is scummy as poo poo. To actively discourage paranoia based on unknown unknowns while scum is the team in possession of known unknowns, holy loving poo poo, stickup. You either fundamentally misunderstand concrete core game mechanics to a ridiculous degree, or you are scum. Town-Kashuno, if you're out there and still just want to kill me, read the above loving paragraph at least, for goodness' sake. The above is exactly what I would do in scum's position. Confuse, misdirect, discredit - even potentially go as far as to claim jobs you've worked out town definitely hasn't chosen and might not switch to; claim they have lovely or weird abilities - kinda side-glancing at you, AR - and do anything we could with our biggest asset to slaughter town as quickly as possible. Here's my list: stickup > jon joe > BK BK as stated as a last resort so he doesn't aid scum for the mutual win and IDK buys town a day, if that, maybe? BK is a potentially a scum asset, might stick to town because he's a Good Guy At Heart but honestly why? Is this possible? Maybe, if we were doing better. But he could lazily give scum the numbers needed to beat town and avoid getting killed for it easily. Or he lied. Leaving my vote on JJ for now because I think more people agree about JJ, but if JJ flips scum, hey, maybe come back to this post and read that big paragraph up there again. less "content-oriented" usual "frustrating" pera content in a loving spoiler tag, how about that? I worked really hard on casing chaos in an admittedly flawed but hardcore investigation because god drat if somebody's CP balance bottomed out (esp, say, due to the actions of a thief??) and that gave them away wouldn't that just be PotG material?? And for what it's worth, I could do a way better "lost townie shtick," are you kidding? I've misunderstood some pretty big rules but I would've "not taken a job D1," I would've fabricated the exact "lucky" job path to be "most helpful to town" all the while insisting and asking what I should do with the powers I have, I would be constantly claiming my role over and over and making sure town understood I was a white mage or something and I would be dancing on all of your loving graves by now because my scum game is unbeatable but nobody ever lets me loving do it!!!! Town is boring as gently caress because all you do is get in slapfights or catch people who are poo poo liars being poo poo at lying which is boring. I expected this game to be wildly different than it's turning out to be - no offense, honored CPig. I am really looking forward to getting to read the scumdoc, which is pointless to say and fine Kash, here, a spoiler tag. "No actual content" after I worked my rear end off (pointlessly) on chaos, my goodness. If/when I flip town, IS is almost certainly town. I tried my hardest to wait for the second thief - Mith, perhaps - to come out about having stolen from Mr. F. The thought of it being redirected didn't occur to me until after I had specifically asked IS to confirm that he had had CP stolen from him, so in retrospect it was dangerous. If IS is scum, he has almost no incentive to back me up: if he didn't actually get the PM and he says yes but I'm lying, he can claim it must've been somebody else and not look that suspicious. He didn't breadcrumb that possibility like I would've as scum in his situation. I believe that he, like me, had less knowledge of the insanity of the mechanics at play with these jobs and as a result, confirmed it confidently. Go look at the post. Even if I were lying, he only has an incentive to confirm this for me if he is town, right? Look at anybody who tries to argue with what I say in the paragraph accusing stickup. Lies and misdirection might sometimes be useful for town, but the truth is always useful for town. Me going "I stole from IS" and IS confirming almost certainly means we are either both town or both scum -- but it doesn't work as strongly in the reverse if IS flips town, for reasons that are above: I could still hypothetically have known he got stolen from and am not as confidently clearly town, and that's just a fact I lay at your feet in earnestness, as is all of the above. I'm being especially verbose to attempt to secure that as best I can, apologies. I suspect might actually read this wall - if not now, then perhaps later - and scum will skip it because I am frustrating and a manipulative shithead besides, right? It's already a pretty loving long post. I hope it helps. I've been as honest as I'm capable of being and I've worked as hard as I can on this and for goodness' sake, I'm loving heading off to get ready for Truth or Dare now, though I will do my best to be back before the actual deadline to secure a lynch on one of the above or a well-argued case -- I did it once this game, but I will no longer be supporting this "omg never no lynch" mentality. I don't know why I was expecting a lighter, happier atmosphere - y'know, a slower burn - from a CPig game. I should've known what I was in for.
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Jan 28, 2017 00:57
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what the gently caress are you really going to make me read all that poo poo
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Jan 28, 2017 01:05
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jon joe posted:what the gently caress are you really going to make me read all that poo poo Noone is making you do anything jj. But the thought process is well laid out and follows internally. Would not vote pera today.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:08
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the thought process is flows internally? her main scum call is just omgus
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Jan 28, 2017 01:17
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apparently I use the word flows more often than follows? pretend I picked the right one
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Jan 28, 2017 01:19
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Grandicap posted:Noone is making you do anything jj. But the thought process is well laid out and follows internally. Would not vote pera today. By the way gcap, we have to bold our votes for the events. CPig might do his best to count you otherwise but he might also honestly miss your vote / think you were joking.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:21
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Grandicap posted:Noone is making you do anything jj. But the thought process is well laid out and follows internally. Would not vote pera today. Oh poo poo, I was so focused on helping you with the bolding and then figuring out what in the world stickup's phone had done to him that I missed the praise. I'm still new to this poo poo (like I didn't even know what OMGUS meant until stickup just used it again and I finally remembered to realquick look it up on the wiki - thank you stickup btw) and it means a lot to me personally to at least have the thought process receive the above praise from you. jon joe posted:what the gently caress are you really going to make me read all that poo poo Nah, skip it.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:36
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peramene posted:Oh poo poo, I was so focused on helping you with the bolding and then figuring out what in the world stickup's phone had done to him that I missed the praise. I'm still new to this poo poo (like I didn't even know what OMGUS meant until stickup just used it again and I finally remembered to realquick look it up on the wiki - thank you stickup btw) and it means a lot to me personally to at least have the thought process receive the above praise from you. an important term! 
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Jan 28, 2017 01:38
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this is a stickup posted:an important term! Growing up / back in the day I had totally different acronyms and sayings for everything. Re-learning poo poo is weird. This is what like... my 7th attempted game? I don't even know. I hear these terms and I see them as important but I tried to grok them from context until eventually loving BK pointed out the wiki to me; y'know which I promptly forgot about for 2-3 games. My above thanks are earnest and not a game-thing. Nobody should believe that obviously - always assume everyone else is a mastermind and every post matters, right? But I hope at least you do, personally, between us. Speaking of games, as it is 10 minutes until T&D, farewell and goodnight until -- oh. The deadline is tomorrow, not tonight! Delightful. Regardless, good evening friends and foes alike.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:49
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B
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Jan 28, 2017 03:50
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D
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Jan 28, 2017 04:51
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CapitalistPig posted:B. Use the Mini spell to try to find a way through the roots The Group uses the mini spell and goes through a hole in the roots of the tree. They make their way up to the top of the tree and find Gutsco. Gutsco appears to have absorbed the crystal of Water! The Warriors will have to rely on careful decision making this time because they don't have any magic items! (Light aligned players gain 10CP , Dark aligned players lose 10 CP) A. Attack Gutsco with everything you've got! B. Leave and grind out a few levels. C. Look for something in your environment to give you an advantage. D. Give up on this world and join with the inevitable darkness sweeping the land. You have until 5PM Easter tomorrow (Saturday)
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Jan 28, 2017 05:18
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This is probably the alcohol talking but I've got no ideas on this one.
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Jan 28, 2017 05:42
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Jan 28, 2017 06:13
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IllegallySober posted:This is probably the alcohol talking but I've got no ideas on this one. same - grinding first for levels would be the safest option if you're actually playing the video game, but maybe that would delay our progress? I'm not sure what environmental advantage we could gain here, but I suppose it can't hurt to look for one. So C sounds the best to me so far.
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Jan 28, 2017 06:47
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I've been pretty wrong with my feels so far on the events
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Jan 28, 2017 06:52
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and also i keep forgetting to actually vote anyway
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Jan 28, 2017 06:53
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Easy call, become a nihilist. D
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Jan 28, 2017 07:44
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Hmmm, no clue. I guess B and C seem safest?
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Jan 28, 2017 07:59
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I kind of do what to see what happens by picking D at least once... but right when we're about to unlock another crystal doesn't seem like the best time to test this.
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Jan 28, 2017 07:59
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Ah right. Probably only A or C lead to the crystal unlock? I guess one of those.
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Jan 28, 2017 08:00
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C Gotta say I'm a little surprised at Grandicap actually voting D. Those options have been funny so far, but this time sounds a lot worse than all the previous ones. Like it would shortcut us right to the Cloud of Darkness final boss or something, it's getting really ominous.
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Jan 28, 2017 08:06
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jon joe posted:Okay, I'm going to ask you to back this one up Why I think Jon Joe could be scum, because he asked: Day 2: jon joe posted:This reads to me as fake outrage. jon joe posted:Would also vote Bif jon joe posted:vote people who make scummy posts imo jon joe posted:IS > Moat > Bif This is it, this is his day 2, as far as content goes. We get two opinions (Is is scum because he said to be honest, bif is scum because reasons, and Moat worked his way into the middle of that list apparently as a holdout from d1). Also stickup isn't scum is in there, but it isn't a particularly quotable post, so I didn't copy it. There's no content to dig into, no reasons given. It's the simplest, bare bones of opinions, that gives nobody else anything to base an opinion on. We can disagree with his alignment calls, but with no reasons, we can't look for missteps in logic that allow one to scum hunt. This is how you give opinions while keeping secret knowledge secret. Day 3: jon joe posted:IS and yourself jon joe posted:I am physically incapable of reading peramene's posts this game. Something about their very form prevents both lingering sight and comprehension. This isn't a case, or a mafia post. This is just insulting someone. Ad hominem is a fallacy for a reason. jon joe posted:how does one human produce that much bullshit? Once you dig through the thesaurus, there's a real, valid point in here (Bif is scum because most of her content is setup spec, not casing). It's funny how he mentions lazy lurker call-outs as the easiest scum position to hold, seeing as caseless opinions are the second easiest scum position to hold (assuming we're ignoring actual lurking), which was his game up until this point. Jon Joe isn't my number one scum pick, but he's on my watch list for sure.
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Jan 28, 2017 08:23
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Who is your #1? What do you think of Mr.F?
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Jan 28, 2017 08:28
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okay what the gently caress is with the puzzle (see you tomorrow)
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Jan 28, 2017 08:46
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King Burgundy posted:Who is your #1? Mr. F is a straight lurker vote, and I would happily remove him from this game. He hasn't posted in three real days, and his last content of any sort was a response to gulag's only case from the day before. I guess "not my first pick" isn't quite accurate. I don't have any scum picks that I would term as first, just a rough grouping. Up until chaos claimed he was high on my list. Up until you really engaged and we got past the argument with Tobbs I was feeling you were scum. Right now I don't really believe BK's claim, and even if it's true, there's no reason to keep him alive, as he isn't participating anyway. An active claimed 3p is one thing, a lurking one is another. Even allowing for the fact he just replaced in, Grandicap isn't wowing me. I think he could be using the "I'm a fresh sub" to vote ways in events he thinks would help himself aka the scum team AR has very little case work, and while he has been sharing information, it's job information that presumably scum have. Jon Joe I just cased. And Mr. F! could be scum, how would we know? he might as well not exist Those would be my strongest leanings, and many/most of them are from a lack of information, rather than an actual case. Stickup I really need to reread but haven't yet, same with IS and pera. Kash I have read and am neutral/slightly town on. Tobbs, Bif, and yourself are on my cautiously town list. I am planning to dig into the thread tomorrow morning and do a good read through again, hopefully firm up one or two "This is a scum, get them" But I would vote any of the five on that short list with no qualms right now.
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Jan 28, 2017 08:55
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peramene posted:okay what the gently caress is with the puzzle BAM  (not gonna try the earlier ones ,they are too hard)
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Jan 28, 2017 10:35
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Bifauxnen posted:BAM The hidden class Onion Knight is now available.
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Jan 28, 2017 15:37
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CapitalistPig posted:The hidden class Onion Knight is now available. I thought this was a joke, but it's not 
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Jan 28, 2017 16:07
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I do like C. I'd be less confident in my Mr. F! vote if it was just because he's lurking, but please read my case on him before dismissing it as a lurker lynch.
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Jan 28, 2017 16:11
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wow, nice bif
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Jan 28, 2017 17:44
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