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hard counter posted:while i am sympathetic for the yearning for star trek times and effectively infinite energy isn't this opinion a little juvenile, like even to fantasize about? I was referencing the scifi novels by Iain M. Banks, where AIs essentially keep humans as pets because they are nice like that. Almost all forms of "work" can be done more efficiently by a Mind, either directly or with drones they control. People still work, because they want to and it gives them something to do and improves their standing among their peers. In the day we live in now, people absolutely should work, and should have jobs. Many don't however, as capital has doomed thousands and thousands of people to exist in a society they have no part in. Someone in a place with no labour laws does the job they should be doing, and they only watch as the ones lucky enough to have jobs buy the products they once made. It cannot last, as the election of Trump proves. We live in interesting times. doverhog has a new favorite as of 08:33 on Jan 29, 2017 |
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Jan 29, 2017 07:58
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AutumnDDP posted:If I didn't have to work I would probably kill myself due to a lack of meaningfulness so that's worth something probably. I took 2 weeks off at the end of last year and it was kinda glorious, I slept in till 5pm some days, I played a bunch of video-games I had been putting off (Hitman, The Witness, Dirt Rally), marathoned a bunch of TV shows that I hadn't got round to watching (Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Star Trek: TNG, Lost) spent time working out, learning how to cook chinese food and generally had a loving great time. Then he holiday ended and I was back to being constantly tired, eating take-aways, doing no excercise and occasionally playing half an hour of Rocket League after work. Working loving sucks man. Nb: I have never been unemployed in 16 years of being in the labour market, I've been made redundant, I've walked out of jobs and I've transferred to better jobs but in those 16 years I'd never had more than 5 working days off in a row before so maybe that should be taken into account.
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Jan 29, 2017 10:41
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Most jobs in the world are pointless bullshit that only serve to make real, important work that other people do more annoying and expensive. I work for a company that makes things that people need to make other things that people need, and 50% of my day is spent dealing with cold callers and arbitrary paperwork nonsense forced on us by outside agencies who only have a vague idea of what we actually do. Without that nonsense I could fire someone and our goods would be cheaper. Just blow up every call centre already.
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Jan 29, 2017 12:18
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You should be able to charge people who call you, like 1-2 $. It should be an option on your phone/phone plan. That would slightly make up for the inconvenience and probably be enough to tank the business model of spam callers.
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Jan 29, 2017 13:40
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There are apps that just block those calls for you.
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Jan 29, 2017 13:44
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Yes but they' re not fool- proof and only keep the wicked away instead actually punishing them. I' m a civic- minded person.
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Jan 29, 2017 14:08
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doverhog posted:He can't be impeached without his own party turning against him. The idea of what he would have to do the get the GOP to impeach him is loving terrifying. I figure it will have to do with something about national security. He'll blab some state secret or something. There are quite a few GOP members that don't like him, unlike nearly every single one that was a fan of Dubya. Trump is too unpredictable and once Republicans are done with him they will throw him out under some pretext and bring Pence in, someone who is more in line with them. What will be interesting is how they remove him because he will not resign like Nixon. How do you fire a President? Arrest him? Call National Guard on him? Trick him into going to the ice cream store and when he gets back lock the doors of the White House so he can't get back in? I think that was a serious concern when they were wanting to kick Nixon out, except Nixon resigned. Fashionable Jorts posted:Of my ten years since high school, I've been unemployed for over three of them, and it's always the best. Find meaning in things other than busywork. Keep your mind occupied through self-discovery and learning (and I don't just mean go to school). I'm on disability and am perfectly happy just doing my own thing. I volunteer, run errands, work on various projects (like trying to get into the Daughters of the American Revolution), read, go to the noon AA meetings, etc. But then, I always hated to work but did it anyway.
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Jan 29, 2017 14:20
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Someone disagreeing with me isn't annoying what so ever, but someone I share a stance with is if they argue a point I care about poorly. Results doesn't speak for themselves. Whether a decision was good or bad is based on the information you had at the time when you made the call, and although things turning out right is nice, it doesn't validate making a bad call.
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Jan 29, 2017 14:30
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Grandmother of Five posted:Results doesn't speak for themselves. Whether a decision was good or bad is based on the information you had at the time when you made the call, and although things turning out right is nice, it doesn't validate making a bad call. Literally the most frustrating thing in the world.
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Jan 29, 2017 15:03
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LOL at people saying that having a job is important for personal growth or motivation or whatever bullshit. No it loving isn't, you bourgeoisie fuckheads. Most people dont have fulfulling careers. Most people work lovely jobs to pay the bills, and often those jobs dont pay well enough to even do that. Working fast food and making 7.25 an hour isnt rewarding or fulfilling, and it isnt even important. We cant all be rockstars and astronauts. Many of us can't even be scientists, doctors, dentists, lawyers, social workers, teachers, and so on. Most people do crap that robots should be doing.
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Jan 29, 2017 21:38
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I unselfishly volunteer to be the first person who doesn't have to work and gets money to just do what I want for the rest of my life. My first act would be to buy the new Resident Evil
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Jan 29, 2017 21:42
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As B. Fuller said´: "We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."
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Jan 29, 2017 21:43
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I think that all violence is wrong.
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Jan 29, 2017 21:44
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It is a societal problem that the immediate assumption of people is "we would just be lazy and depressed if we didn't have jobs". We have been so thoroughly worn down and de-socialized / atomized / dehumanized by the wage system and private ownership of production that we can't even imagine a fulfilling existence of living according to our preferences even when offered a blank check in the form of a hypothetical scenario. It's the ultimate Stockholm Syndrome.
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Jan 29, 2017 21:45
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Corbyn should have backed leaving the EU. It would have been more honest, because that had been his position for his entire political career up to his becoming leader of the Labour Party. In addition, in both of his leadership contest victories, he has secured the majority of votes of the majority of Eurosceptic Labour voters or Labour voters who otherwise voted to Leave easily. More to the point, his election was predicated on this idea that he was going to be the herald of these new radical ideas, and leaving the EU is almost certainly the most radical change British politics will experience for (charitably) at least 20 years on either side of the event. Furthermore, if Corbyn had been one of the faces of Leave, it would have permitted the development of less stringent post-referendum narratives than those we have now, which will have the effect of diminishing our vital free market principles as we leave the single market and customs union (dire mistakes if ever there were any) under the aegis of a government led by people who seem intent on overcompensating for their comparative inaction during the referendum campaign to placate the loudest element of the victorious Leave faction. In any event, leaving the EU will rather unfortunately probably make it easier for the socialists to take over in the long-term, which is Corbyn's ultimate goal, and why he (and the rest of the Bennites) have been opponents of our membership since before the last referendum. That being said, the fact that EU policy could end up undermining the Labour Party after having been the Conservatives' chief bugbear for more than three decades is somewhat amusing in a morbid fashion. Wheat Loaf has a new favorite as of 22:54 on Jan 29, 2017 |
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Jan 29, 2017 22:08
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Ramagamma posted:I took 2 weeks off at the end of last year and it was kinda glorious, I slept in till 5pm some days, I played a bunch of video-games I had been putting off (Hitman, The Witness, Dirt Rally), marathoned a bunch of TV shows that I hadn't got round to watching (Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Star Trek: TNG, Lost) spent time working out, learning how to cook chinese food and generally had a loving great time. as a vacation lots of new free time is an undeniably awesome change of pace especially if you use for something exotic that excites you but even in star trek times when there's no raw need to do anything anymore i think people would still want to be productive and contribute in some way - i can't imagine turning like 65 and realizing i've squandered my one spark of a life in vain, ultimately self-absorbed activities even if I could peddle it off as a life of enlightenment and self-improvement rather than chasing a dragon on some holodeck for purely vapid reasons sassassin posted:Most jobs in the world are pointless bullshit that only serve to make real, important work that other people do more annoying and expensive. i think the worst side of the intensely optimistic 'you can be whatever you want to be with hard work' mantra we fill kids' heads with is the implication that the only things you should want to be are things like astronauts, neurosurgeons, CEOs, etc, where the day to day life is filled with important activities - it makes it seem like someone has immeasurably failed if they ended up in shipping, retail, unskilled labor or any other rapidly interchangeable position and imuo it promotes unnecessary condescension like the reason there are always openings in those positions is because people need those jobs done in incredible quantities - if we lost half the neurosurgeons in the world a relatively small fraction of the population would be hosed, whereas if we lost half the people involved in something like shipping the whole planet would feel the belt constrict intolerably as all production became glacial, there's no reason to turn your nose at any kind of usefulness even if some positions seem more like rockstars than others steinrokkan posted:It is a societal problem that the immediate assumption of people is "we would just be lazy and depressed if we didn't have jobs". We have been so thoroughly worn down and de-socialized / atomized / dehumanized by the wage system and private ownership of production that we can't even imagine a fulfilling existence of living according to our preferences even when offered a blank check in the form of a hypothetical scenario. It's the ultimate Stockholm Syndrome. i think modern society has just excessively abstracted the original 'you help me, i help you' co-operation of pre-industrial societies via the wage system so that we're totally disconnected from the idea that others are working their asses off to make sure our basic requirements are met, i can't imagine just being handed all my meals, my shelter, my healthcare, etc without wanting to put something back - if someone were building my house i would want to give in return something commensurate in a hunter-gatherer society there's no way you could look anyone else in the eye if you were the piece of poo poo loaf who selfishly consumed the works of others while doing nothing of note or even making an attempt at contribution if you were able-bodied hard counter has a new favorite as of 22:49 on Jan 29, 2017 |
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Jan 29, 2017 22:46
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Tiggum posted:The "use mayonnaise instead of butter" thing that people go on about is also pretty underwhelming. It's honestly worse than butter cause it makes the whole thing vaguely soggy and greasy. I pretty much only do it if butters running low
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Jan 29, 2017 23:06
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Aesop Poprock posted:It's honestly worse than butter cause it makes the whole thing vaguely soggy and greasy. I pretty much only do it if butters running low The only person I know that does this is the kind of person who leaves their salad when they order a baguette.
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Jan 29, 2017 23:08
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Ramagamma posted:The only person I know that does this is the kind of person who leaves their salad when they order a baguette. It was promoted for a while as being better than butter but I'm pretty sure it's one of those bullshit lifehacks that don't actually improve on anything
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Jan 29, 2017 23:22
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It's supposed to be a really, really thin layer. There shouldn't even be enough there to sog the bread.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:07
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hard counter posted:i think modern society has just excessively abstracted the original 'you help me, i help you' co-operation of pre-industrial societies via the wage system so that we're totally disconnected from the idea that others are working their asses off to make sure our basic requirements are met, i can't imagine just being handed all my meals, my shelter, my healthcare, etc without wanting to put something back - if someone were building my house i would want to give in return something commensurate
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Jan 30, 2017 00:18
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Mayonnaise is gross.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:22
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Mayo is a perfectly fine thing. It's just oil and eggs, ideally, and as such it's an incredibly versatile ingredient. Just use it in moderation.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:24
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Talking about moderation of sauces, most burger or sub places seem to substitute making something tasty with just smothering the food in too much strong sauce. When it's dripping out of the bun and it's all you can taste that's a loving disgusting failure.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:44
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I don't get that. So many good sandwich and burger places just overload it with whatever sauce. In-n-Out even drowns their burgers in that sickly sweet sauce to the point where it tastes like a dessert. Just put a loving thin layer.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:49
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There should be enough ketchup/sauces on a burger to drip all over the fries while you're eating it.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:59
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The kids in school smothering whatever meal in room temperature mayo and ketchup, together, turned me off 'em both. I'll substitute Miracle Whip and chili sauce for either and can only tolerate the former two when used in recipes. Most my sauce dilemmas are handled with mustard, horseradish and soy sauce.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:06
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steinrokkan posted:Yes. At the same time having an income independent on conventional employment doesn't mean you would have to be a drag on your community. Historically an immense amount of communal work was done without any form of formal employment, and arguably today the sphere of publicly benefitial activities that need not be performed under a contract is much broader than at any point in history. The problem is that there are no communities in today's society, so a common reaction is "if I don't have a job, I must sit in my apartment, watching TV", implicitly because I'm just a guy existing on my own, outside society. i do agree that it is dehumanizing/isolating and definitely not without its flaws what i mean when i said the situation was abstracted was that things still technically work as they did in close communities except instead of directly giving your bud a six pack for helping you set up your sound system you perform a job for which you're paid generic cash which you can then pay to your plumber for his services instead of telling him you can help him move next weekend or whatever; the shadows of the old ways are still in the present system except with a larger, impersonal community but with more convenience - you can just keep on being a useful programmer (or whatever else you love/enjoy/tolerate doing) without having to barter a direct exchange of some kind but at least for the foreseeable future you would definitely be a drag on your 'community' imho because you still need things from other people and giving nothing in return is lousy if you're otherwise able-bodied, especially in the context of our current world where people still die from unmet needs - that malnourished third world kid would gladly do 8 hours of retail to pay for himself if that were an option the B. Fuller quote is a nice aspiration tho, maybe someday? v  v
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Jan 30, 2017 01:13
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Kids shouldn't have smart phones until they're at least middle school aged or so. Seeing all these tiny kids absolutely glued to phones to the point that they're ignoring all outside stimulus and not socializing with other people and seeming like autistic zombies makes me feel like a grumpy old man shaking his fist at *kids today*
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Jan 30, 2017 01:13
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hard counter posted:but at least for the foreseeable future you would definitely be a drag on your 'community' imho because you still need things from other people and giving nothing in return is lousy if you're otherwise able-bodied, especially in the context of our current world where people still die from unmet needs - that malnourished third world kid would gladly do 8 hours of retail to pay for himself if that were an option That's the issue, though. More labour doesn't solve the problem of malnourishment in the third world. Everyone working 40/50/60/80 hour work weeks has no impact on those unmet needs.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:19
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Can you guys recommend any reading on all this career/labour chat? Seems pretty interesting.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:20
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You can start by reading your employee handbook to learn why unions are so evil! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_VL4gqrCHc
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Jan 30, 2017 01:39
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in before someone says das kapitalsassassin posted:That's the issue, though. More labour doesn't solve the problem of malnourishment in the third world. if you're directing that at the idea of your own 40/50/80 hour labors being unable to solve someone else's problems that's def true (unless you're into charities) but it's also true that the absence of your labor would create more problems because you still need things but aren't giving anything back now if you directed that at the analogy: the third world having money from labor would to buy food would at least induce a change in how produce is distributed, as of this moment it's widely reported that world production could exactly meet everyone's nutritional needs but that isn't how things are distributed, goods and produce follow money, even money from charities & developmental organizations ultimately if something like world hunger is going to be solved, it'll be because we argue that people should work to feed others rather than arguing that people shouldn't have to work at all; that might be a semantic difference to some but it's a difference to me vvvv e: to be honest i've never had a totally pointless job even at the entry level but if those really do exist somewhere than yeah i see what you mean in that case hard counter has a new favorite as of 02:01 on Jan 30, 2017 |
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Jan 30, 2017 01:49
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hard counter posted:if you're directing that at the idea of your own 40/50/80 hour labors being unable to solve someone else's problems that's def true (unless you're into charities) but it's also true that the absence of your labor would create more problems because you still need things but aren't giving anything back now The things most people do to "give back" don't help to create the things they need. Most labour in the developed world is pointless obstructionist busywork and the system would work better if there wasn't a total employment culture. A call centre worker trying to get details from businesses to sell to other companies that try to offer better deals on energy contracts from other companies again is pointless.The world doesn't need it to produce the energy that business needs at that lowest price point, with enough capital left over to keep the other people working the chain alive. You could send everyone home to watch tv and putz about in the garden with the same net result.
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Jan 30, 2017 01:57
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hard counter posted:ultimately if something like world hunger is going to be solved, it'll be because we argue that people should work to feed others rather than arguing that people shouldn't have to work at all; that might be a semantic difference to some but it's a difference to me There is enough labour present in third world countries to more than fulfil any labour needs they might have to sustain themselves. The issues are financial, political, technological, environmental, educational etc. People aren't going hungry because they need other people to come work for them.
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Jan 30, 2017 02:00
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i think we may now be arguing in a loop friend current wage/employment systems aren't without flaw and could use tightening at a number of levels (political, educational, etc) but we still need an exchange of goods, services, labor to keep the system moving because ultimately things comes down to the fact we're all of a single mutual need to consume resources nonstop until we die but we can all help each other sustain that when we work together, if we argue that some jobs are literally pointless then those just ought to be replaced with something better than whatever tribute to employment culture they're currently tied to e: sassassin posted:There simply aren't enough useful jobs that need doing to produce the things we want to consume. More labour doesn't endlessly produce more resources, there are limits. isn't the upside of more efficient production the fact we now have more free people to do innovative stuff that can contribute to society by expanding it? those breakthroughs in technology, education, organization, politics, etc gotta come from someplace hard counter has a new favorite as of 03:04 on Jan 30, 2017 |
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Jan 30, 2017 02:25
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Baronjutter posted:Kids shouldn't have smart phones until they're at least middle school aged or so. Seeing all these tiny kids absolutely glued to phones to the point that they're ignoring all outside stimulus and not socializing with other people and seeming like autistic zombies makes me feel like a grumpy old man shaking his fist at *kids today* What, exactly, do you think those kids are doing on those phones if not socializing in some manner?
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Jan 30, 2017 02:41
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Actually, let me rephrase. Mayonnaise is perfectly fine as a vehicle for seasoning. Eggs, oil, and vinegar, well, I like all these things independently, and have no problem with it being the base of a delicious sauce. Mayonnaise by itself is nasty. I love chipotle mayo. But chipotle mayo doesn't taste like mayo.
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Jan 30, 2017 02:47
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hard counter posted:If we argue that some jobs are literally pointless then those just ought to be replaced with something better than whatever tribute to employment culture they're currently tied to There simply aren't enough useful jobs that need doing to produce the things we want to consume. More labour doesn't endlessly produce more resources, there are limits. Trump can't bring back the factory jobs, they're all being done by chinese robots now.
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Jan 30, 2017 02:51
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Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:What, exactly, do you think those kids are doing on those phones if not socializing in some manner? playing games
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Jan 30, 2017 02:52
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