Proud Christian Mom posted:

As soon as I find a moderate actually willing to have a discussion I'll have one.

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Until then I'll keep trolling Trump supporters hoping they have a stroke.

VikingSkull posted:

The problem is moderates are seeing you trolling Trump supporters and then turning on the TV to see airports blocked and people getting assaulted and they are being pushed away. Someone has to be the adult here and if Republicans are such shitheels it has to be the Democrats. If they are also unwilling to be adults, each successive election we have from here on out is going to be the electorate throwing ever bigger anti-establishment and populist bombs into the machine. That's a loving dangerous gambit to gamble on.

CommieGIR posted:

Catering to ignorant asshats isn't going to win the Dems anything worth note.

Vengarr posted:

Digital Subscribers:

— 1923–1980: Your digital subscription includes 100 archive articles every four weeks in this date range (from January 1, 1923 through December 31, 1980). After you’ve reached the 100-article limit for the month, articles from 1923 through 1980 are $3.95 each.

— Pre-1923 and post-1980: Articles published before January 1, 1923 or after December 31, 1980 are free with your digital subscription and are not limited in any way.

BigDave posted:

I subscribe to the cheap version ($4.99, I think?) and I've been able to look at any article I like.

Proud Christian Mom posted:

I'm willing to gamble.

VikingSkull posted:

The problem is moderates are seeing you trolling Trump supporters and then turning on the TV to see airports blocked and people getting assaulted and they are being pushed away. Someone has to be the adult here and if Republicans are such shitheels it has to be the Democrats. If they are also unwilling to be adults, each successive election we have from here on out is going to be the electorate throwing ever bigger anti-establishment and populist bombs into the machine. That's a loving dangerous gambit to gamble on.

TBeats posted:

Do you think the internet had anything to do with Donald Trump's election?

Godholio posted:

It also convinces them that you're not worth engaging. Look at how many people ignored Bernie based solely on his idiot supporters.

Proud Christian Mom posted:

As soon as I find a moderate actually willing to have a discussion I'll have one. Until then I'll keep trolling Trump supporters hoping they have a stroke.

VikingSkull posted:

Ok, that's fine. Thing is, you'll lose.

quote:

Personal anecdote here, but I'm center-left. I've talked to right wing people, and we respectfully disagree on a range of issues. I've talked to left wing people, and they call me a fascist, racist, xenophobe despite the fact that I'm pro-immigration, anti-corporation, pro-choice, pro-LGBT and all the rest.

Guess what side is pushing me away?

SperginMcBadposter posted:

That's a really long way to say "when they go low, we go high". That poo poo didn't work.

Vengarr posted:

My question is this: "If Cowboys fans are dicks to me, does that make me more of an Eagles' fan? Or does it simply increase my hatred of the Cowboys, without deepening my affection for Nelson "drop it like its hot" Agholor"?

There is a clear link in the literature I've seen between partisan identity and anger towards the other side, but I'm not sure which causes which. Do I hate the Cowboys because I'm an Eagles fan, or am I an Eagles fan because I hate the Cowboys? In the latter case, why am I an Eagles fan instead of, say, a Redskins or Patriots fan? Was it because I identified with the Eagles to begin with, because I rationally selected the Eagles from among the 31 teams in the league (lol at the very concept), or because I didn't see any other viable options?

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Policies that worked splendidly for the Democrats from 2008-2016:

Bipartisanship
Being the adult

Godholio posted:

You may also hate dogs.

Number Ten Cocks posted:

What is?

VikingSkull posted:

No, Hillary didn't work.

Godholio posted:

It's not going to work in loving Congress, but when you need common folk to agree with you during elections, maybe it's worth not pissing them off.

SperginMcBadposter posted:

We had 8 years of "being the adult", and all it got us was the gimped ACA and a lost SC seat. It didn't loving work, it isn't working now, it's not going to work in the future.

SperginMcBadposter posted:

We had 8 years of "being the adult", and all it got us was the gimped ACA and a lost SC seat. It didn't loving work, it isn't working now, it's not going to work in the future.

BexGu posted:

You'r not going to find that online unless you got out and just talk with people and their concerns. Also mobilize to get people to vote at the lowest level position as possible and work up, not top to bottom.


That's why you can't find a moderate to have a discussion. If all you'r doing is trolling all your gonna find is trolls to fight.

Phily.com posted:

As opioid deaths rise, pharma firm hikes price of antidote more than six-fold
Va. company says discounts blunt impact of cost

First came Martin Shkreli, the brash young pharmaceutical entrepreneur who raised the price for an AIDS treatment by 5,000 percent. Then, Heather Bresch, the CEO of Mylan, who oversaw the price hike for its signature Epi-Pen to more than $600 for a twin-pack, though its active ingredient costs pennies by comparison.

Now a small Virginia company called Kaleo is joining their ranks. It makes an injector device that is suddenly in demand because of the nation's epidemic use of opioids, a class of drugs that includes heavy painkillers and heroin.

Called Evzio, it is used to deliver naloxone, a life-saving antidote to overdoses of opioids. More than 33,000 people are believed to have died from such overdoses in 2015, and deaths soared at a record pace in 2016, including all over the Philadelphia area.

And as demand for Kaleo's product has grown, the privately held firm has raised its twin-pack price to $4,500, from $690 in 2014.

Founded by twin brothers Eric and Evan Edwards, 36, the company first sought to develop an Epi-Pen competitor, thanks to their own food allergies.

Now, they've taken that model and marketed it for a major public health crisis. It's another auto-injector that delivers an inexpensive medicine.

One difference, though, is that Evzio talks users through the process as they inject naloxone. The company says the talking device is worth the price because it can guide anyone to jab an overdose victim correctly, leave the needle in for the right amount of time and potentially save his or her life.

According to Food and Drug Administration estimates, the Kaleo product, which won federal approval in 2014, accounted for nearly 20 percent of the naloxone dispensed through retail outlets between 2015 and 2016, and for nearly half of all naloxone products prescribed to patients between ages 40 and 64 — the group that comprises the bulk of naloxone users.

And the cost of generic, injectable naloxone — which has been on the market since 1971 — has been climbing. A 10-mililiter vial sold by one of the dominant vendors costs close to $150, more than double its price from even a few years ago, and far beyond the production costs of the naloxone chemical, researchers say. The other common injectable, which comes in a smaller but more potent dose, costs closer to $40, still about double its 2009 cost.
...
Kaleo, which is trying to blunt the pricing backlash and turn Evzio into the trusted brand, is dispensing its device for free — to cities, first responders and drug treatment programs. Such donations were also essential to the Epi-Pen's business strategy.
...
Prior kits contained a pre-filled syringe. The Evzio was the first to help laypeople dispense the drug. And competition is limited: One of the few consumer-friendly alternatives to Evzio is a nasal spray device for naloxone.
...
The Evzio could be ideal, especially when medical professionals are not nearby, noted Traci Green, an associate professor at Boston University's School of Medicine. But the price limits access.

"It's a really good product," she said. "It's elegant. People do like it — but they can't afford it."
...
But consumers may not yet be pinched. In another Mylan parallel, Kaleo offers coupons to patients with private insurance, so they don't have any co-pay when they pick up the device.

So Kaleo would say the price hikes are essentially moot. Herzog said they are necessary to subsidize programs that do not offer copayments. In a follow-up email, he added that the list price is "not a true gauge," because insurance companies can sometimes negotiate rebates and discounts. And, he said, since the price increase, more patients have gotten Evzio prescriptions filled — so the cost doesn't seem to be stopping them.

Mylan provides a similar Epi-Pen discount — a move that's helped cement it as the dominant epinephrine provider. But even if consumers don't directly pay for the price increases, they're affected, analysts cautioned.

"When you have these kinds of programs, the cost is still borne by patients, because insurance premiums go up," Beletsky said.
...
That's not true everywhere, though. The Veterans Health Administration, known for its especially high rate of patients taking opioid-based prescription painkillers, covers the auto-injector. It can do so, though, because of its bargaining power — the agency is legally authorized to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies.

As a result, the VA is paying "far, far less" than the Evzio list price, said Joseph Canzolino, deputy chief consultant for pharmaceutical benefits management at the VA. (He would not release the precise figure.)

The agency's buying power is such, he added, that even when companies drive up prices, what the VA pays will stay more or less stable — far below a figure he called "pretty exorbitant."
...
But that money comes from somewhere — most likely taxpayers. And it's hardly sustainable, Price noted, saying "at some point in time the rubber's got to hit the road."

Kaleo has given away more than 180,000 devices, Herzog said, distributed in 34 states among about 250 organizations such as police departments and nonprofit groups that distribute naloxone to people at risk of overdose.
...
But those who've accepted free Evzio devices and have come to rely on it may soon face withdrawal. Last year, Kaleo's donation supply was exhausted by July. Herzog said the company has added to its donation supply and is taking applications from groups hoping for free devices.
...
"Epi-Pen happened, and everyone was like, ‘Wow, this is terrible, we shouldn't allow this to happen,'" he said. "And we haven't done anything about that, and it's not clear what the solution is. Now, shocker, it's happening again."

sky shark posted:

The ACA can't be blamed on anyone other than the Democratic party. They rammed that through without any Republican support, negotiation or even review... so it being hosed up is on them. That albatross can't be hung on the Republicans when Pelosi said "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it"

Duzzy Funlop posted:

That, however, is now turning into "YOU'RE PART/ALL OF THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ENGAGING POOR SKY SHARK/TRUMP SUPPORTERS IN REASONABLE DISCUSSION". And loving to that.

joat mon posted:

How does the history cutoff thing work? Trump's EO is fine and handy because in the past a democrat slowed refugee entry to ensure an actual threat didn't recur, I get that. But how do you get to deny the health care reform fuckery that came before the ACA that made it unfortunately the only viable solution?

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Naked Bear posted:

Jesus loving Christ, people, this retarded internet slapfight has been going on for months now. Try posting about actual current events instead of just endlessly bitching at each other, it's loving childish. When was the last time somebody posted something of substance in here (tweets don't count)?

If you want to get angry at somebody, get angry at these asshats:

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/Pharma-firm--Opioid-Overdose-Antidote-Then-Raising-The-Price.html

sky shark posted:

I like the time where I provided a well sourced & cited argument about how certain policies have always been racist and you turned around and took shots at my kids & got called out by multiple posters. The problem isn't people like me. The problem is people like you who, when they get an inkling of power, act as petty tyrants and run off dissenting voices. HTH

sky shark posted:

Edit: I'm hoping this H1B reform goes through too, the double whammy of treating H1Bs like slave labor and using their below market wages to drive down wages for American workers has hosed over our tech base for a long time.

sky shark posted:

I like the time where I provided a well sourced & cited argument about how certain policies have always been racist and you turned around and took shots at my kids & got called out by multiple posters. The problem isn't people like me. The problem is people like you who, when they get an inkling of power, act as petty tyrants and run off dissenting voices. HTH

Hot Karl Marx posted:

gently caress it, it's Khmer Rouge time

(Edit woah thread moved really quick, maybe ignore)

BigDave posted:

I AM NOW ANGRY AT THESE ASSHATS

BigDave posted:

I AM NOW ANGRY AT THESE ASSHATS