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someone remind me why we keep suffering people who refuse to play to live
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Feb 3, 2017 17:39
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Kashuno posted:someone remind me why we keep suffering people who refuse to play to live because watching you get salty about it every game is worth the lack of effort
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Feb 3, 2017 17:48
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Absurd Revolver posted:because watching you get salty about it every game is worth the lack of effort Real town mentality here.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:53
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:These replacements are making me thirsty.  
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Feb 3, 2017 18:08
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Huh, I was leaning town on pera just because of the wordiness, but this certainly makes me want to re think things. People talk about her amazing social game in FRG's, maybe she is just playing us using those skills? There is not much in there for me to respond to since it seems to mostly be conspiracy theories, but I'll give it a go. a) Now that you've built me up so much, I kinda wish I was scum. b) Not only did I lead the cuddle on the only scum we've cuddled this game, I drove it. I kept forcing people to comment on and think about MR F. Even before the cuddle I'm the one that caught him red handed, I believed, in a slip. I'm actually fully capable of bussing my fellow players as scum, but would I really throw away a team mate in a game where all these jobs we take are so important? c) Your point about scum focusing on defense does not seem to be true. Both scum that have flipped have had offensive abilities. d) How many scum are there? Based on your post you seem to think there were 4 total. In a game with 19 players where the only 3p we've seen could join town, that doesn't seem like a good balance in a game with no night kill unless scum have ways to do more than we think. Is it possible they can kill more than one a night? I mean, if we want to get all tin foil, bard can apparently triple vote? I guess you could have one scum focusing on that while another does multiple kills, if that is a thing? We still don't know what several of the jobs do. e) You seem to think AR is bad for scum. Why is he still alive then? Obviously kills are happening. Mithross was also a claimed Geomancer, also still alive. Then again, maybe scum really are afraid of AR, and you are on their team and made sure he was roleblocked? In the same post you also think AR is good for scum, because they want him around as a target for you to argue with? Well you roleblocking him is one way to ensure that without having to kill him. f) You seem to think it's a smoking gun that there were two night kills last night and AR was roleblocked. If you think there are still two scum left, then there were three scum last night capable of killing. Where is the third kill? You believe Mithross is above reproach since he killed Keane(and for what it's worth, I do too), but your same logic about me leading the cuddle on Mr F can be applied to Mithross killing a scum buddy and his took way less work. More likely, AR is in fact scum and you stopped him from making the third kill. Or you are the scum and were busy roleblocking AR. Or my tinfoil hat theory from d could mean there is no direct tie here if any of the jobs can kill more. g) I think what's bothering me the most is the part where you suddenly think AR is 100% town. That makes me worry this is some last moment gambit for the win. Is this lylo somehow? Are you and AR scum buddies and as long as you both make it through this vote you'll win through some combo of jobs?
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Feb 3, 2017 18:09
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Playing off of KB's is this lylo question. Assume 2 scum, they are both bards now with triple votes and they both have kills because of an old job. They can force the lynch today with little effort if they have 6 votes between them. But is that lynch plus 2 NKs enough? There are 8 alive, so with the lynch and 2 kills that would take us to 5 alive. Which would be LYLO if this were a regular game, but because they are triple voters, in theory, it would be endgame, because they would just drop 6 votes on a person and go right to night phase. They wouldn't have any powers left, probably (because they still have to be active bards to get the triple vote, right? or is that a single use power thing). I feel like if they did this that would play their hand too openly and they would be counter vigged or something. I do not believe AR + pera are the scum team and this is a thing in LYLO trying to trip us up. Even if they only had 1 bard that's 4 (triple vote plus regular scum vote) out of the 5 needed to lynch, but because of night actions, and having to overplay the hand, it would probably backfire, maybe?
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Feb 3, 2017 19:09
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Grandicap posted:Playing off of KB's is this lylo question. I do not think it is lylo nor do I think there will be a guaranteed lylo situation in this game until there are actually 5 players alive. With the roles out there it'll be hard to discern any sure things about the setup.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:44
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I am also concerned about the possibility of a setup like Grandicap suggests with multi-voters. (Especially because I am not sure/certain about the mechanics about multi-voting generally or multi-voting in this specific game) but Tobbs has claimed to possess these powers and the fact that he's claimed them - and that they've been "tested" once, but only once? - kind of makes me feel good about Tobbs on this particular worry. On the other hand, these are one-shot? abilities. Even if you look at the Scum Guide To Picking Jobs And Killing Townies and see a one-shot multi-vote... random votes? (Right, Tobbs?) One-shot triple votes? That gets you through one lynch, and you have to give away that there's multi-voting job/s to do it. If I'm scum today and I'm specifically focusing on playing defensively at night but aggressively at day with the lynch, Tobbs needs to die asap because he's claimed to have multivotes that can gently caress my plans up. A lot of people have wanted to vote Tobbs all game. Even though my initial reaction would be, "oh, the multivotes for the finish, once we've gotten these fools to lynch low enough," I'd eventually back away. The important element is to have mob control so that you can use the lynch to reliably eliminate your target, whoever they are. I resigned myself last night to the simple fact that if this is the game they wanted to play, and two scum have six votes between them? Say, Tobbs is scum and somebody else grabbed the multi-vote. They can control the vote once(?) today. While Grandicap is defending himself and Anarc, I do want to point a counterpoint to my own argument out: Anarc made very sure to have a vote on somebody for D1, and it was moat. D2: Not Voting (5):AnonymousNarcotics, BottleKnight, chaoslord, peramene, Tobbs Gnawed (#) D3: Anarc replaces out. If my model that the lynch is the most reliable killing method in the game, Anarc didn't vote D2; but to counter that point, by D3 she's replaced out and we have Grandicap. What has Grandicap done with his votes? D3: Not Voting (4): BottleKnight, chaoslord, Grandicap, Mr. F! (#) Nothing. D4: # Grabs onto AR with me and tries to help me make my case against him. This isn't conclusive - there were enough votes on D3 to get BK gone, and being as active as possible (/Grandicap was indeed still catching up with the thread and/or scumdoc) means that ultimately even if the lynch target isn't your best case scenario, you have to vote it. It is simply the case that Grandicap didn't help lynch BK. But it's also the case that he didn't have to.
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Feb 3, 2017 19:57
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That was a very well-thought out post from KB... In response to a callout. It tells me that KB is engaged with the game and has time for it, but apart from his case on Mr. F! he's been very disengaged, and again, reactive. Let's look at that case. King Burgundy posted:So not to side track things too much, but I think I only want to vote lurkers today. I'm kinda tired of how little some folks are participating. Also it is going to get harder and harder to vote people out if we keep having to deal with them. KB holds up his "case" as being a solid defense for his towniness, but all he's doing here is: 1. Saying he wants to lynch a lurker. 2. Without evidence, saying that Mr. F! is a black mage and did one of the night kills N1. That's weak casing. In fact, KB's entire game has been filled with weak casing (pushing lurkers, pushing IS based on unflipped players' alignments). To me he seems like a player content to sit on the sidelines and let the days roll by. His play has not been town this game, and providing lesser support, this is very unlike the town KB I've played with in other games. ##vote KB CPig still hasn't gotten my PM, so some votes are going to disappear when that goes through (don't be surprised).
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Feb 3, 2017 19:57
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:That was a very well-thought out post from KB... Naw, none of this holds up. You can maybe sell it looking at that post in a vacuum, but look at the series of posts in context and the story changes. I made a concerted effort to get other people to look at Mr. F. Read the posts. See for yourself. Your argument also directly contradicts pera's, which says I masterminded all the votes but BK. Only one of these things could be true at most and I say that neither of them are. Also, I'm super offended that in this game I am the one being pursued for weak casing in the first place. If you are town, this is you being wrong again, like you were in Shine.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:26
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If Tobbs is scum, that was a decent place to go right before he throws his extra votes on me. Not quite enough to hammer me yet, but close. If that happens, make the right choices tonight to make sure he doesn't get away with it.
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Feb 3, 2017 20:29
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I think tobbs and kb are weird bussing scum
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Feb 3, 2017 20:33
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King Burgundy posted:If Tobbs is scum, that was a decent place to go right before he throws his extra votes on me. Not quite enough to hammer me yet, but close. If that happens, make the right choices tonight to make sure he doesn't get away with it. Is there a reason you call everyone scum who cases you? Level 5 of bard lets you instantly hammer any player that has at least 1 vote on them from non-bard abilities.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:03
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Votecount for Day 5 King Burgundy (0): Tobbs Gnawed, Absurd Revolver (0): Kashuno, Not Voting (8): Absurd Revolver, chaoslord, Grandicap, Kashuno, King Burgundy, Mithross, peramene, Tobbs GnawedWith 8 alive, it's 5 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 03rd, 2017 at 11:59 p.m. EST -- that's in about 8 hours, 52 minutes.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:06
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A sleepy lullaby settles over the land.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:06
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Is there a reason you call everyone scum who cases you? If I don't have a solid reason for knowing someone is town, I have to at least think about the possibility that they are coming at me because they are scum. Especially near the end of a game. I know my own alignment, I don't know yours. -- Wow. That ability is crazy.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:13
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Is there a reason you call everyone scum who cases you? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Feb 3, 2017 21:14
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King Burgundy posted:If I don't have a solid reason for knowing someone is town, I have to at least think about the possibility that they are coming at me because they are scum. Especially near the end of a game. I know my own alignment, I don't know yours. Yuuuuup. It will also cause votes to randomly appear OR be removed, so if you see that happening in votefinder and CPig posts someone playing some kind of song it means that a player can insta-hammer. My only solace is that as yet, if anybody else has chosen Bard, they haven't used an ability so they might not be level 5.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:19
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Don't vote unless you're sure. Think about limitations on knowledge, access to information, attempts to get information from others. Confess any lies you've told. If I'm right about KB, he's been leading town day by day to lynch targets. Look at his efforts throughout the entire game - he's led the only guaranteed way to be sure you kill your intended targets. If I'm wrong about Tobbs, and he can put multiple votes on KB, do not help him lynch KB. Look at his reaction to my post today. Look at Grandanarc. Think about it. AR - You've confirmed my roleblock from last night. There was still three dead, two town, one scum. (Keep in mind: if I'm scum, I want AR roleblocked so he doesn't get to play with my plan for the night.) Chaoslord - Flavorclaim for funsies? You spent all of your CP and appears to have made an attempt to get claims you could disprove. Your ability messes with everyone, but eliminates night kills. Statistically speaking, that saves town lives. Kashuno - I haven't reread you yet. I don't think I'll get to it today - T/D in five hours, after all - but I don't think your fixation on possibly getting me killed is scum evidence, that's just you being you. Mithross - You haven't been counterclaimed and you successfully took out Jon Keane during nightphase. I'm not hearing any other way he could've died -- anybody want to counter? Otherwise, you're town. As for me, there haven't been any serious cases on me yet, but I am who I am. When I realized that this setup happens to turn things on their head - scum need to think like town players to stay alive, and town needs to think like scum players. For one glorious, fantastic game, CPig gave me what I've been wanting. I get to get information from lying and being tricksy. I get to make accusations that I think are maybe true and see how everyone responds to them. I get to make the sorts of plays I want to make. I'm not 100% on KB. Today, my real case and the person I think we should lynch is Grandanarc. If he flips scum, during the night, I will roleblock someone other than AR. If he flips town, I'm sorry, I've done the best I can. I will do something else - no idea, yet - but I won't be roleblocking AR. His lightning rod could mean victory or death for us. Never forget the most important element here: scum aren't limited at all by our limitations. They know the jobs, they know the abilities, they may even have - as KB suggested early game - an answer key for events. Town doesn't have any of that. Back in a few hours. <3
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Feb 3, 2017 21:25
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btw I am now summoner and have another random set of powers to use
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Feb 3, 2017 21:42
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i'd rather lynch AR
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Feb 3, 2017 21:44
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Level 1 devout gets a jail, and the jailed target can see anyone who visits them (as if they had watched themselves)
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Feb 3, 2017 21:47
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Holy poo poo deadline is in 8 hours, I completely forgot.
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Feb 3, 2017 21:55
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Kashuno posted:i'd rather lynch AR I just can't stay away: A no lynch would be better for town than another mislynch. Straight statistically, fewer of them than us. Like Asiina said D1 (and probably died for it.) gently caress who we're lynching: who do we absolutely not lynch? Chaos, at least, yeah? Stop thinking about defending yourselves and make town cases for other people, Light Warriors. It's almost like the game was built this way on purpose.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:05
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I'm not interested in lynching AR, peramene, or Mithross today. With Rangers (trackers) in the game, it's extremely risky for them to risk faking actions when it's so easy to be caught. Also, Mithross is the un-counterclaimed killer of a scumbo. So for two town deaths we have 5 players. Grandicap -nothing Tobbs -nothing King Burgundy - I did a thing Kashuno - nothing chaoslord - I didn't use delayed vig chaoslord posted:Dragoon level 1 is a delayed vig called Leap. 1 shot. Didn't use it because I don't have a particularly strong scum read and being wrong on that would probably lose the game. King Burgundy posted:Black Belt is a jail plus CP drain, but I used something else. It's also interesting that Kashuno, grandicap, and KB have been pushing AR for lynch. What I'd like is for everyone on the list to claim what they did, and why. I'm happy to claim myself, but I'd prefer to go last so it doesn't affect other players' results. If it helps, I didn't visit any of the players who died.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:12
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*nothing is a placeholder for players who haven't said anything about their action
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Feb 3, 2017 22:13
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Also, if Keane killed last night, it's possible that only one of the living players performed a NK.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:14
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Are we in full claim time? I think we're close.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:15
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Hypothetical-scum-Tobbs, smart play honestly listing yourself there as nothing.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:19
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Grandicap posted:Are we in full claim time? I think we're close. Yeah. N1-lvl 1 monk (nexus) N2-lvl 3 monk (nexus) D3-switched to ranger, switched to bard, used lvl 1 bard power N3-no action (can't use actions the night after singing) D4-no action, no switch N4-used ??? D5-used sing, switched to Devout peramene posted:Hypothetical-scum-Tobbs, smart play honestly listing yourself there as nothing. Just being honest in that I haven't claimed what I did last night (yet)
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Feb 3, 2017 22:20
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Aha! Got you. I knew you couldn't resist praise! (Joke post)
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Feb 3, 2017 22:24
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i can summon chocobo to doc myself and another target, and i can summon ifrit to doc myself and another target who I watch that night and broadcast the result
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Feb 3, 2017 22:24
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peramene posted:Aha! Got you. I knew you couldn't resist praise! lol was that an, "If scum, please respond." post?
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Feb 3, 2017 22:24
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Sure, I'll claim. n1 - Yoink BK n2 - CL destroyed all actions n3 - terrain jon joe (failed, no reason given. Either I rolled lightning rod when there already was one, or I rolled jail and my target was jailed, or I rolled poison vig on someone who was already dead. My personal guess is that stickup was a lightning rod and died, and so I failed to poison him) n4 - soul eater on Jon Keane, great success
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Feb 3, 2017 22:25
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I was addressing Hypothetical-scum-Tobbs, after all.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:26
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I'm mostly interested in n3, because afaik terrain shouldn't have failed unless something weird was going on. All the rest of my claim is stuff I've already revealed, just presented in one single post.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:26
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I don't know what anarc's target was, but I subbed in as a level 3 white mage with a 1 shot doc used. I didn't really know what was up with the job system at the time so I withheld my action becoming a level 4 white mage. I withheld my action again, because I didn't really have a good doc target, and the extra point wouldn't have helped much and became a level 5 white mage. Yesterday I switched to scholar. Last night I used a role block on Bif, becoming a level 3 scholar. I am on the fence about switching jobs again.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:28
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Wouldn't Bif have been safe if you jailed her?
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Feb 3, 2017 22:33
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Grandicap posted:Are we in full claim time? I think we're close. Sure. I think I've claimed almost everything already. N1- 1 WM - Protect Stick N2- 3 WM - Protect Self but failed D3 - Changed to Viking N3 - 1 Viking - Berserk D4 - Changed to Black Belt, Changed to Ranger N4 - 1 Ranger - Tracked Kash, Went nowhere
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Feb 3, 2017 22:35
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peramene posted:Wouldn't Bif have been safe if you jailed her? I think scholar lvl 1 is just a straight roleblock, right? Also, I read Kashuno. He is scum this game lol. All he's done is make town calls on players that have now flipped town, as well as throwing the lightest bit of shade on jon joe. I'm honestly surprised that we didn't catch him sooner.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:36
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